Yep, I understand, but when will the bitching ever end on this? For lots of reasons, never, so at least throwing in the towel solves the issue once and for all, rather than
kidding ourselves it will EVER be "fixed".

Still hoping some smart RD will see the opportunity and start a "draft legal" event. I would sign up in a second! (I still get dropped by the strong bikers, so it would not
change my race at all. :o( )

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The problem is we would also have to get rid of aerobars....imagine the pile ups!

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Na, we all do our draft legal race at the tfrracing.com goldenstate with aerobars, and never had an issue. So easy to find all the reasons it "cannot" work.
But takes a RD leader to have the guts to try a "real" solution based on the bias that most "triathletes" are really duathletes. :o)

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I've ridden with way too many inexperienced riders in my day to wish that on myself. I'll go to Xterra first.
Integrity used to matter.

I quoted her here: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=2420516#2420516

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Is the girl we are talking about the one in the white suit?

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"injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" MLK

And you know Speedygirl is a member of their team also ;-)

They all need to drop her and focus on the over all issue...she played the game that every other person was playing.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I'm replying to your post on the first page of this thread - - about the 2:39 bike improving to 2:21 or whatever. I'm not reading the rest of the thread because I find they really de-volve after about 25 posts so forgive me if this was addressed and answered (and forgive me if you actually bore witness to something in regards to this particular athlete)...but FWIW (and I have not seen the Racine results nor did I participate this year but I have raced it twice in the past and I did do NO 70.3) - - NO 70.3 bike was HARD. It was F'in WINDY. Forget the humidity factor too. I don't think there is enough info to draw a conclusion based on the time alone. I did my worst half iron bike split ever at New Orleans - - 20 minutes slower than what I can do untrained at Racine. Just a thought.

Racine had hard conditions too. No wind, overcast, cool temp, and no hills.

To complain about the logistics of a race is one thing, but to call out someone by name is nothing short of BS and sour grapes from lesser athletes (and I use that term loosely for those people). I’ve never raced Racine, but hear from others that it’s very difficult to not unintentionally draft during the bike at some time or another while trying to pass others.

Too all of you calling out Adrienne Saeger and comparing her race results from last year at IMWI (her 2nd full year doing TRIs and her first IM)) and her races from this spring (NO 70.3) with last Sundays Racine race shows what jealous Tools you all are. Forget that weather conditions (wind, heat, humidity) and course differences play a role in times from one race to another. I know Adrienne personally and know how much integrity she has and know what a tremendous work ethic she has and the amount/quality of her workouts this spring/summer and am not surprised at her increased speed on the bike and run. Forgetting the fact that she is an outstanding athlete. If you’d taken the time to follow her results from more recent races (REV3 – won her age group, 3rd overall non-Pro women’s), you’d also not be surprised at her great performance last Sunday.

Kurt Martin

Actually we're questioning the times of the females in the Top 10, primarily the AG'ers.

Because Adrienne is at the top we're just using her as the example. The second place finisher is icing on the cake for our points.

Michelle Lanouette:
SOR 2009 4:23
SOR 2008 4:4X (IMWI Kona slot winner, maybe age group winner)
SOR 2007 4:4X (IM Kona)
SOR 2006 not sure, but somewhere in the 4:4X (IM WI age group winner and FIRST AMATEUR Finisher with 3:2X marathon split)

THEN BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! goes a 4:23 at SOR 2009 with Adrienne Saeger slipping in at 4:22. Doubtful that either could produce that without a short swim and drafting (unintentionally).

(edited to please Swimfan)

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Matt Amman

Actually we're calling out all the females in the Top 10.
Are you serious? Come on!
So if she races same race a year ago 30 minutes slower does it really mean she is drafting or cheating?

Yes, there are. The words would be GREG THOMPSON!!
;-)..He's a stud

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

I'm amazed that people continued to vouch for Adrienne as if they have actually watched her out there on the bike course. Did you people actually in fact watch the race? And what is up with Adrienne deleting her post, if I remember correctly she pretty much admitted it??? And people claim she wasn't drafting because she didn't get a penalty - oh yea, that is how life works, people always get caught???? I'm not saying she was drafting, but look at the following:

...Ok before we start can well at least agree that white swimsuit girl was drafting? This would be from simple visual inspection of that photo of her tucked in with a bunch of riders????

...And

If we speculate about Adrienne and a handful of other 0-34s. It seems that they all went out before the Male 40-44 group and had just enough time to get out of the water and onto their bikes before the biggest draft pack (speculating based on times) in history started rolling down the roads like a snowball picking up more and more riders. May be Adrienne was just a victim, but my guess is she participated and if she did draft then what is to say she hasn't done this at WI, Steelhead, NO 70.3 and any other big races where she could just get "lost in the pack"? Take a look at her smaller races or performances in elite waves

2009-06-28 - Hy-Vee Triathlon - 40K in 1:08:36 or 21.7 MPH
2009-06-14 - Naperville Women's Only Sprint - 14.16 miles she averaged 23.36MPH
2009-06-07 - REV3 - 56MI in 2:49:47 or 19.8 MPH (Adrienne went 5:09 to CARFRAE's 4:27)

Ya it makes a lot of sense that she went 56MI @ Racine @ 23.8 MPH

More likely she got hooked up with

M40-44 Michael Stec, Eligio Pimentel, Peter Conley, and Marc Robertson who all rolled in together at about 2:44:50. With an AG adjusted time (+3 mins) of ~2:47:50 versus Adrienne's ~2:48:30. Looking at it all I would guess Peter Conley was the strongest rider of the bunch and did the most pulling. Somewhere thru the ride this group of 4 either pulled away from the main group of 30, a motorbike broke it up, or the other riders just casually fell off one by one. Either way I would give those top girls in 0-34 +10 mins on the bike at least. Also, it appears that Adrienne not only after have a record setting bike split and "HAMMERING" away had the freshest running legs of her life with a 1/2 marathon only ~1min greater than her stand-alone 1/2 marathon time. Seems odd, my experience with hammering hard usually results in a poor run but a great bike. In this case it was a great bike and a great run.

Whether it was conscious drafting or just getting sucked into the crowds there is much room for improvement in the race. You should not be able to win the race out of age group - it is just a different race.

That seems like a plausible explanation. Interestingly, if you look at the women who raced Elite and Elite Masters, the bike splits seem much more in line with past performances. Especially since a few of those women have raced against each other both this year and in years past.

Hey Kurt,

What makes you a tool is registering today and calling out a bunch of people as tools. Why not hang around for a couple of months, add something to the discussion and then have an opinion. Sorry, could care less but it looks really really bad for your girl. You have zero credibility round here, can't say the same for some calling her out.

Ron, you had some suspicious results at MITCS. You were 20th in one race and 3rd in the last one? Seriously, how can a 50 year old place that high? I saw you riding in a group of 12 bikes close together for the whole ride.

must have been blocking the fans so other people overheated.

what is your relationship to the user sppnet?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Damn..I'm busted.
If you must know, it's called geezerEPO.

The greatest thing since Gary Hall's Sr's liquid O2.
It goes down great with Metamucil

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

spending time on a blog gives your cred? Whatever.

Not sure where you came up with this magical "250" number. There were far fewer penalties in total than that, and even fewer of those were drafting penalties. If you look at the elite results, not a single one was for drafting. They were all for abandoned equipment - likely either water bottles or swim caps.


http://www.hfpracing.com/...d_Referee_Report.pdf



As others have pointed out, Steelhead was a duathlon, and had a short course. Adrienne had the 49th fastest female bike split, so her 2:33 there in no way is comparable to anything like she did at SOR. And yes, there was tons of drafting in the AG races there too! And there will be again this year there and at Clearwater.

You earn credibility. If you do not know anyone at a party but walk in and declare very loudly that everyone is an asshole it is hard to take you seriously. Just like in any "room" some people have a lot of credibility, others very little. You have no way of knowing who does and who does not because you are "new" here. Who has very little credibility is your girl who, at a minimum, admitted to certerline violations in her race which is enough for a DQ. Also hard to take anyone seriously who is claiming that she rode "clean".

Also, hard to take anyone seriously who does not know the difference between a forum and a blog.

I take yoga classes at Adrienne's studio and also rode Racine last year and heard there were people actually questioning her amazing performance on Sunday. I have to put my two cents in and stand up for one of the most amazing women I have ever met. I can attest that Adrienne has changed the lives of the majority of her students by helping us look at the world in a more positive way and helps her students believe in themselves.

I also attended her spinathon to raise money for ALS in honor of Blazeman. She has a lot of involvement with the Blazeman organization and will be taking Blazeman's ashes to Kona to spread at the beginning of the race. She is such a special person that she was invited to run with Craig Alexander this past Wednesday and he took a portion of his morning to sit and talk to her one on one. How many of you can say you have spent time with the Blazeman organization or with a classy athlete like Craig Alexander?

It saddens me that people actually take the time to put terrible messages on here and doubt her ability. Isn't there more important things in the world to worry about then if she may have potentially caught a draft in a race. People are out there dying of cancer and you are actually taking the time to write these messages. You should all seriously be ashamed of yourselves.

To your point Chip, there has been talk that Adrienne is getting calls from a lot of different sponsors that actually care about her and they are asking to be a part of her racing career. They want a special person to represent their brand and I honestly believe they couldn't be making a wiser decision than to work with Adrienne. It is unfortunate that her team isn't standing up for her and seem to be too afraid they are going to be looked upon poorly. It doesn't sound like a team that I would want to be on especially if head individuals from the team are actually taking the time to throw their top athletes under the bus on a blog site. You would think directors of an elite organization would be professional enough not to talk poorly about one of their athletes.

As Chip mentioned, without any penalties given to Adrienne from the race and her claim that she raced clean should warrant a congratulations and not a bunch of people doubting her abilities. She is an extremely gifted athlete and everyone is taking her words completely out of context. From what I read and after speaking with Adrienne, she never admitted to doing anything wrong in her post. She simply stated that there were one or two times where she would catch a very short "unintentional draft" when she would be surrounded by a group of guys that were packed from side to side. Guys get so competitive when they see a girl that they immediately try to speed up b/c they don't want to get chicked as one of the earlier posts said. This then causes a big group of guys trying to outspeed her and she gets caught amongst this mess. Her only goal in this race was to ride as hard as she could b/c she was using this race as a training ride and wanted to see how her legs would react by putting it all out there. Every rider can attest that a minor draft may occur when passing a pack especially on a course with such narrow roads. I ride myself and have experienced this in many races especially in Racine which I participated in last year.

The bottom line is that she is a stronger rider than a lot of guys and it probably pains most of you to hear this. It may seem as though she received extra assistance but it is just her hard work and mental strength that powers her through. This is her second full year of racing and she has an amazing coach who has helped her improve a ton. Most athletes tend to improve a lot in their second year of a sport and Adrienne is taking this sport to a new level this year.

The fact that people are comparing her results to past races is ridiculous. Steelhead last year was her first half ironman ever. Last year she raced the Naperville sprint triathlon, Steelhead and Ironman WI and that was it. She qualified for Hawaii in her first ironman and her sixth triathlon ever if you count a few sprint triathlons in 2007. This year she won her age group in New Orleans and Rev 3, which were completely different races than Racine it sounds like from other races. New Orleans sounded really windy and Rev 3 had really tough hills. Racine was an easy bike course with ideal conditions. Look at all the other girls bike times. There were so many girls that were a minute or two off of her bike time. Should Adrienne really be racing elite if she didn't taper for the race and was using this as a training race? Is it really fair for an athlete to race elite in their second full year in the sport? To also compare Racine's bike times to her shorter races isn't even fair. She is a long distance racer who does shorter distance races for a challenge and training for Kona.

I think it is so sad that the negative posts continue. I am not sure what y'all are trying to prove and why you really care about this so much. Did you also race and perform poorly so are looking for excuses? Are you jealous a new girl is entering this sport and is better than you? All your posts are creating more negativity in the world and making a bad name for yourself. Just deal with the fact that a better athlete won the race and move on. If you have a problem with alleged drafting in races then talk to USAT about getting more officials out on the course or designing their courses differently so this doesn't happen.

It is also kind of sad that you don't have anything better to do than look up past results and find out how her times compared to past races. The only reason I know so much about Adrienne is because I have taken time to get to know this wonderful person and she brightens my mornings up all the time in yoga class. You all claim to know so much about her based on rumors and alleged sources who claim they saw a few things on the course.

Maybe you should start training with Adrienne so you can become a better person and a better triathlete. She raced her heart out in Racine and if she caught a few unintentional drafts here and there then she didn't mean for it to happen. Hopefully one day you will get to meet this amazing woman and your life will be changed in a positive way.