Look anyone who claims there wasn't drafting out there is delusional - I think if people want to clear their names they should put up power files of the race and let people think what they want to think. As for the above picture yes it is out of transition and a single picture doesn't even prove drafting, you need 60 seconds of video I would say. Here is picture that is not from the transition. It is all about intent in my opinion, if you are out there and even question whether you are drafting then you are probably drafting. As for crossing a yellow line, USAT officials make exceptions all the time, they won't give you a "positioning" call for riding a little bit to the left if the surface on the far right is absolutely junk and potentially dangerous, likewise if you cross the line into the other lane because you are passing a pack then I don't really see the big deal in this. Also USAT usually doesn't give you a drafting call when you can't pass a person in 15 seconds on a 12% grade.


How man triangles... I mean drafters do you see?

They look a little dumbfounded being caught on film! I would have at least smiled :-)

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It's not how many years you have left in life, it's how much life you have left in your years!

this was posted sometime today. it has an additional penalty column just to the left of the final time.

http://premierraces.com/...cineHalfOverall.html

Well, that confirms it. Now if I knew why. Guess I will inquire with the race director.

chris

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"You can quit, and no one will care if you do. But you will know."
~John Collins, Ironman founder

Member HED Mafia

I've seen Lauren lose to Adrienne a couple times earlier this year. So believe me it is possible. Just accept the fact that you got smashed by a girl. It's ok...keep telling yourself what you need to so you feel better about yourself. Stop wasting time on here and go train. It's obvious you need to.

Where?

Show me results.

N.O. was in April, and a much tougher course than Racine. I am sure this female overall winner rode outside 3 times before racing since she is from IL. Racine was perfect conditions...no wind, no heat, and she rode hard. So maybe she had a breakout day. It is possible.

What I found of overlap for the last 12 months:

Adrienne NO 70.3 - 33/2:39/1:42
Lauren NO 70.3 - 29/2:31/1:44

IMWI 08
Adrienne - 1:06/5:56/4:04
Lauren - 55/5:28/3:37

Some indoor races that Lauren shows up for because there is prize money. Adrienne beat her in 3 out of 4 races.

I will be the first to go on record as saying that I would get "Chicked" by either one of these women, and I'm not ashamed to admit it!

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It's not how many years you have left in life, it's how much life you have left in your years!

Fact is we could do this all day long with any number of participants from yesterday and it serves no purpose then to make people angry and call people out. That isn't my intention with this (or maybe that is my intention who knows), but another fact is that lot of folks have times that are completely inconsistant relative to previous performances - even if you adjust for course difficulty.


There was some blatant cheating going on yesterday and no one can deny that.

Indoor triathlons? With a pool swim and biked on Precor stationary bikes?? And 10 minutes between the swim and the bike and 5 between the bike and the run? Well certainly that proves who's faster as long distance triathlon racing...

Maybe I got lost in the 100 posts you have put into this thread. What point are you trying to make. Are you mad that Adrienne won the race? Are you jealous that a girl went a 4:22? Are you upset that you saw her draft off of other people? Wait, did you see her draft off of other people?

You can't compare the times in this race to previous years. The swim was different/bike was different.

You want to compare Lauren's IM times to Adrienne's...good for you. What does that prove? Lauren is like 45 years old. Did it occur to you that she may be slowing down and Adrienne is speeding up.

i just wanted to point out that using an indoor triathlon as an indicator of how fast someone is is the BIGGEST CROCK OF SHIT i have ever heard.

i did a few this winter to break things up. they are fun, but not an any way an indicaotr of how people will do outside. i got beat on the bike by a 12 year old kid spinning 135 rpms the whole time.

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I am not jealous a girl went a 4:22. I went a 4:16, sure gender adjusted she beat me - that's not the point.

The point is her performance is a fair bit inconsistant with races she did just a few weeks ago, and hugely inconsistant with performances within the last 12 months. It is also highly inconsistant with times from World Class ladies on this course. And there are many other examples of this in the field from yesterday (men and women)

Swim times vary based on course accuracy - bike times vary based on course difficulty, but based on the really fast people (DKT, Luke Bell, Chris Lieto, etc) you can "adjust" those, but are generally consistant for people barring flats - as people tend to bike the same intelligent or retarded way every time - it's the runs that vary tremoundously in my experience and more importantly are harder to identify as inconsistant performances.

Did it also occur to you to look at some of Laurens past results - while she is getting older her times have been eseentially the same for the past 5 years, in fact they are actually trending downward again as she is staying healthier and can run more again.

Finally yes the bike was different, but it was not *that* different.

God I wish I could pull myself away from arguing about this subject.

If you honestly don't know (and I say that kindly cuz it sounds like you don't) then I would suggest it is most likely that at some point you were overtaken (passed) by anywhere from 1-30 riders and you failed to fall back to an appropriate space (3 bike lengths?) within the appropriate time (15 seconds?).

From my experience this was the most difficult part of yesterday's ride.

It required you to be frustrated by the actions of others (ie. big group blatently going by) and yet stay within yourself and negatively affect your own efforts and rhythym (ie you had to physically slow down or in some cases sit up and stop pedaling) in order to remain within the rules. Like it or not regardless of how someone passes you once you are passed it becomes your responsibility to "fall back".

I really doubt it was drafting. I only saw the marshal once and I was pretty much all alone. They rode ahead a half mile and busted that big drafting pack at around 25 miles.

As I think back I could have screwed up coming to the dismount line. There were three lanes and at one point I was confused about which lane to be in. I went over to the right lane, but everyone else stayed in the middle. Maybe Chip could comment since he was there. I guess that could have been it. If so it is my fault for not inspecting every aspect of the course pre-race. It was my first time so the course was new. Some parts I didn't expect like having the middle traffic lane just for bikes. Either way lesson learned.

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"You can quit, and no one will care if you do. But you will know."
~John Collins, Ironman founder

Member HED Mafia

the dismount was gonna be my other choice. I am a bit surprised they were that big of sticklers about that given that you had to make a 90 degree turn to go into T2 after. I could have seen myself but for chance over rolling that by 6-12 inches

Your statements are riddled with errors... If you were at the front of the race you would know there was wind. I admit it wasn't awful and the conditions were favorable in general but you all seem to forget about the wind when you are in a pack. It was definitely there when you headed west and it was there when you headed north. I'm not picking a side here as I like both athletes but if you know anything about those indoor triathlons then there are two points you are failing to portray and I am in search of some fairness here.

1) Lauren Jensen was injured for those races or at least the 2nd one. She couldn't qualify for prize money because you have to compete in 3 of the 4 races. Why risk further injury?
2) I only see her completing two events with each splitting it 1:1. I could be wrong but she did only compete in 2 of the 4 correct? Plus what you fail to think about it that 1) the bikes are not calibrated correctly from bike to bike. What bike you get and how it performs matters significantly. Two, Adrienne is a big girl, Lauren Jensen is tiny. These races are geared towards bigger boys and girls as the computer doesn't take into account weight. The races should be based on watts/kg but unfortunately you can't translate that into miles to stack it up to the swim and run sections. And then there is the counting done by volunteers, and believe me there is some room for error on the bike as some volunteers don't take notice until after the bike spins down and you can squeak an extra 1/10 of a mile out. Then there are volunteers counting laps on a small track and short pool - ya that's always accurate too.

With all that being said, I'm excited to see them both continue to compete in triathlon but I would have preferred to see them in the same wave as it would have been close.

you have 15 secs to make the pass....

You have to fall back immediately once passed (not 15 secs) overtaken

Being Overtaken. When the leading edge of the front wheel of one cyclist passes beyond the front wheel of

another cyclist, the second cyclist has been "overtaken" within the meaning of these Rules. A cyclist who has

been overtaken bears primary responsibility for avoiding a position foul and must immediately move to the rear

and out of the drafting zone of the passing cyclist. The overtaken cyclist shall first move completely out of the

drafting zone of the other cyclist before attempting to re-pass the other cyclist.

thank you. Renews my statement that this was the most difficult part of yesterdays ride. In falling back to try to get out of the draft zone you would just keep getting passed and a new zone created......

Given the shear number of violations I highly doubt that the USAT officials were hammering people over positioning. Intent is most important and if you stay right on the wheel then you are going to get dinged but if you make an attempt to cooperate with the rule I'm sure you were fine. Believe me, there are people out there who deserved penalties and there are prob a few who actually don't deserve them but regardless it was ugly out there.

I think this is an important piece to this whole thread. There is the letter of the law (which is up to USAT to enforce) and then there is the spirit of the law (which is up to the individual to both know and abide by).

Bottom line is it is not enough to just "not get caught". At that point then attach the rear view mirror to your helmet. It is important to ride your own race. If you did then you are a triathlete. If you didn't you are something else. And you know which one you are...........

Not sure why you picked my thread for this response.....

BTW I do not, nor do I know anyone who, rides a White Cervelo with WC stripes and I know that I am not Fabian.