I think you need to check your outrage-ometer setting. Seems to be stuck on ultra-sensitive.

Inflation is a current problem around the world. High energy prices are a key contributor. Releasing some of the oil reserves may help to cool oil prices and help bring down inflation.

Doing this in coordination with other countries makes sense to increase the effectiveness of it. Also shows the benefits of having good relations with other countries.

This is about supply Windy, not consumption. It is not just United States but China, India, Japan, Republic of Korea, and the United Kingdom.

Hard not to laugh at the folks who wailed that Biden must do something about high gas prices and then wail when he does something about high gas prices. You also must have missed that almost 40% of this was mandated by Congress, something they have done 7 times in the last 4 years. Did you start a thread those 7 times or is your outrage selective?

I don't think the actual release is what matters. And OPEC may be right, it is not clear there is a shortage. The price increase may very well be driven by trade speculation.

I think this line is key, "the threat of a coordinated release ... has knocked the wind out of crude oil's rally."

My understanding is that there really isn't enough in reserve to actually affect the price for very long, so this is more symbolic (staged, theater, pick your word of choice) than anything.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Given your gross misinterprations of liberalism, I am sure you were just expecting him to give everyone a free electric car.

The purpose of the SPR is not to fight inflation because your party is worried about midterms.

Your statements are fine but using the SPR for this is wrong IMO. (It can only put 4.4MM BBL out a day anyway).

That was in the last spending bill that got shot down. I forget which page but you can read the thing and let us know.

China, India, Japan, Republic of Korea, and the United Kingdom are worried about the midterms? Huh?

This is a lie.

If this was just the US alone releasing reserves I would agree that it is mostly performative but in this case you have multiple countries participating in order to ease this short term supply crunch. It is also a nice FU to OPEC.

The messaging from the dems on oil and gas prices has been sub-optimal. i think most of the electorate think gas prices are high because US oil production has been reduced by the dems in order to favor renewables; whereas US oil production is higher than it was in January, and higher than any time during the last 9 months of the the previous administration.

Cancelling pipelines isn't helping with the messaging. IMO Biden is saying one thing and doing the opposite.

"OIL PRICES ARE TOO HIGH AND IT'S ALL BIDEN'S FAULT!!!"

Biden adds more oil supply.

"THIS IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!!"

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

rich_m wrote:

The messaging from the dems on oil and gas prices has been sub-optimal. i think most of the electorate think gas prices are high because US oil production has been reduced by the dems in order to favor renewables; whereas US oil production is higher than it was in January, and higher than any time during the last 9 months of the the previous administration.

The messaging from the GOP Media machine has been optimal. They have been hammering the lie that high oil/gas are Biden's fault for months. They have been completely dishonest about Biden's policies, and their affect, while their followers have eagerly amplified the lie.


"A lie can travel around the world and back again while the truth is lacing up its boots.”—Mark Twain

I too think this is mostly symbolic. I think the coordination with other countries helps send a stronger message. But unless some of those other countries have the ability to produce (and transport) over the longer term I think OPEC will see this mostly for what it is.

I am against our govt as a whole tapping into the SOR. That said I have seen it occur from both parties in the 2000's a number of times. I have equally not liked it anytime it has occurred by either party. Perhaps they need to change the term from SOR as I don't see this as a "strategic" use.

I think the larger issue, as is the case many times with Biden, is the message delivery. When you stand up in front of a national audience with Anderson Cooper and downplay the effectiveness of tapping into the SOR (maybe 18 cents a gallon) because you appear to get caught off guard by the question, get annoyed and blurt that out, and then less than a month later want to champion the idea, it's hard to take you seriously (whether you are OPEC or a US citizen).

Did you intentionally misquote Biden or were you just repeating something you heard in the echo chamber?

Biden was not "caught off guard" by question about the SPR because Cooper never asked a question about the SPR. It was Biden who brought up the SPR as one of several options. Biden did not say "10 cents" he said 18 cents. He also explained that it would be part of a larger Foreign Policy effort, which today's announcement with multiple countries, clearly is

You can read the actual exchange, without your misleading spin, here
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/10/22/remarks-by-president-biden-in-a-cnn-town-hall-with-anderson-cooper-2/

I misquoted. I went back and watched again as you were posting this. I have since edited my original post.

And this is the last time I will be responding to you as it's clear you just want to be combative about everything that doesn't fit your world view.

Pointing out that you are, once again, posting false claims is combative?

My world view is facts.I like facts, not dishonesty. Your post is an excellent example of how the echo chamber pushes false information that is then picked up, repeated, and amplified.

It seems you only changed one part of your multiple mischaracterizations in that paragraph, but you do you.

Your last paragraph is just so lame. He points out your clear errors and then you accuse him of having his own world view? A real man would just admit he was wrong and delete the whole paragraph.

I've never blamed Biden for oil prices

How dare anyone point out facts! This will not be tolerated! Good day sir!

And you, good sir, like to dodge things. Yesterday you referenced a thread that happened 5 years before you joined. Kay then asked which banned poster you are. You dodged.

Nutella pointed out a bunch of things you got wrong about what Biden said and you dodged most of it.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I've enjoyed our positive interactions in the last several days. My original response to you here was an attempt to continue a share of viewpoints. I did get one fact wrong in my initial response that I have since corrected.

If you would like to continue please let me know.

I hope this thread gives you some perspective both on how/whether people choose to contribute in a positive manner here, and on whether the ganging up that was bothering you last week is limited to the people you wanted to protect going forward.

I have appreciated your effort.

There is a reason that Dan ignores this side of the forum until someone really pisses him off then he comes in with the ban hammer and goes wild. And you aren't wrong. Once someone jumps in there is just a feeding frenzy. Like I told you before, if you are arguing with someone specific, have at it. I just find it really off putting when people who weren't involved in the original argument jump in. Like here, like another thread right now with Windy (though I am sure he can take care of himself and I am pretty sure he enjoys most/all of the fights), every now and then a couple people like to go after CallMeMaybe, Barry, and Ken I mentioned before.

I'm all for knock down fights. But just like the old west, bystanders should stay bystanders if the gunfight is fair.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I couldn't agree more. And I'm fine to take care of myself as well. What your post convinced me of last week is I spend far too much time here just swinging blindly and not enough time seeking out those who I may disagree with but have the ability to conduct that disagreement in a manner that allows us both to learn and grow.

I look forward to continuing that relationship with you. If I am out of line at any point in our interactions please point it out to me.

What happened to all the fracking we had going on in the midwest. I thought a few years ago they mentioned we'd soon be an oil exporter?

Back on topic.

When there were initial discussions of a release of the SPR I was skeptical. At the time the talk was of 30 Million barrels which is nothing big. Bringing India, China, Japan, Korea and the UK onboard with the plan was a smart move, I do not think that has ever been done before.

Another smart move was bringing forward the Congressionally mandated SPR releases. These releases will happen anyway so it is better to have them now than 8 months from now. That will account for about 35% of the total.

US production is coming on line super fast. September numbers are not out yet but I expect them to be much higher than August. December is looking liked it could be one of the top 15 months in US history.

This is a nice "fuck you" to OPEC.

...........

I don't disagree with anything you have said above (I don't keep track enough to comment on you US production numbers so I will just agree). I hope it has an overall positive impact on OPEC and production levels.

This is the real question, how will OPEC react?

It is clear that the Saudi's, and Putin, want to drive up prices. Putin has been talking about $100 oil for months. WTI peaked in late Oct at $85.41 a barrel. Despite the fairly weak impact of today's SPR announcement, it's at $76.60. In some ways, the US diplomatic push and SPR talk achieved what it intended: nearly a $10 drop and stop crude heading toward $100 a barrel......But OPEC, and Putin, could crush any of that success in a heartbeat.

Historically getting in a fight with OPEC has ended badly for the US, however this is a bit different. Biden got a bunch of counties on board. China stockpiled millions of barrels during the depths of Covid. Add to this rapidly expanding US production and there is liquidity in the marketplace that previously only OPEC could provide.

Just checking the markets now, Brent and WTI are both up on this announcement likely due to reports that OPEC would reassess their output. The funny thing is the folks that will benefit most, short term, from any OPEC overreaction will be US producers.

the choice to get other countries involved is significant as I stated in my first post. The question will be whether OPEC and Putin see this as significant (and sustainable) as you and I do.

I'll watch for your updates. I'd continue to respond but at some point someone might tell us to get a room........

No shit! (pink)
Who would have thunk it. I want to hug you both.

get the f away from me.....:)

They were all in when oil was $100 a barrel, but it isn't as profitable now.

I feel like I should be drawing a privacy curtain closed at this point or something.

High energy prices are a positive. They:
A) Discourages unneccesary driving.
B) Reduces the ridiculous subsidizes for huge, inefficient cars and wasteful commuting practices.
C) Provides pricing support to clean energy sources. (There is significant price competition between energy sources).
D) Ultimately lead to lower highway maintenance and construction costs -with less driving.


Trump consistently, and flagrantly, messed with the healthy functioning of energy markets (and every other free market) - whenever he thought it might deliver some short-term gain.

It is not reasonable for most modern Republicans to criticize Biden here.

But someone needs to be a grown up!!!


It is utterly crazy to stimulate inflation (as was done throughout the Covid years, and the rest of the Trump/Biden economies).

Then pass a infrastructure bill to promote economic growth, inflation, more highways and bridges......
Thus stimulating greater energy use, higher prices and more inflation.

And THEN make symbolic gestures about lowering gas cost.

That's just bulksh#t.
It is precisely the kind of crap Trump would do.

kinda new at this be gentle with me.

Even if it doesn't have a long term impact, it does potentially buy time that allows the US industry to ramp up production. I haven't been following, but I assume that a lot of production what shut down when oil dipped last year. If the price goes up to $100 a barrel then the US suppliers will be getting back into the game. Outside of shocks like pandemics and wars, over time the market will work itself out even with more restrictive polices. In the mean time we will be making a tidy profit on the oil we bought at near $0 last year.

If the US ramps up production as is being suggested here I think that's great. I am being told that is already in the works.

I do understand that markets work themselves out.

Part of what I was told a month ago (I think) was

1) the President didn't have a lot of near term solutions
2) tapping into the SOR would have minimal effect (18 cents per gallon)
3) a lot of Middle Eastern folks wanted to talk to him. He wasn't sure if he was going to talk to them.

etc.

I don't think it was very smooth answers to very straight forward questions. I don't think the answers helped this process or citizens general anxiety about our economy.

Your viewpoint may differ.

edit: heres my first paragraph of first post. I think we are saying the same thing??

I too think this is mostly symbolic. I think the coordination with other countries helps send a stronger message. But unless some of those other countries have the ability to produce (and transport) over the longer term I think OPEC will see this mostly for what it is.

The US is actively ramping up production. If it can pull oil out of the ground/ocean it is being put to work.

It appears that OPEC will mildly retaliate by shaving their projections. They will likely trim the increased output that they promised early in the year. This is great news for US producers as it will keep prices artificially high while they ramp up production and make $$$$. It will also enable US producers to further develop their export business (China). The funny result is that, near term, Biden will turn out to be one of the best Presidents the US oil industry has had.

BUT.

Long term this could get ugly. OPEC and Russia will give US producers a year to ramp up production then they will flood the market, driving prices down. This could crush the heavily leveraged and less scalable US producers.

Going to be an interesting 12 months

slick move

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I'm not afraid to do it in public.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Groan

3 points awarded

What the hell happened in this discussion? This is so not LR-like. I guess everyone is in a festive mood.

jpo and I had a nice discussion last week.

you just wait until I find a sense of humor......

I just witnessed a nice moment in the LR but I don't believe in Santa. ;-)

maybe it will be a festivus miracle.....:) (I got a lot of problems with you people!!)

Let's just call it a Père Noël miracle and we're good.

deal

You must be looking for a fight!

---

Suffer Well.

i said "deal" while having no idea what that is. Assuming it's a Frenchie thing

Well, I assume this is like the Christmas truce on the western front. We'll get back to the shooting shortly.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

If you haven't, watch "Joyeux Noël", French movie about the truce during Xmas in the trenches during WWI.

Wow this POTUS is really serious about lowering gas prices by releasing all that oil from the the SPR!!
Damn 50 million barrels is a lot of oil!!
Unfortunately the US uses 18 million barrels PER DAY
So he’s releasing enough oil to last 2 1/2 days. ??
Please don’t play us Mr. President

Yes. Because delivery from any and all other sources will be stopped completely.
[eyeroll emoji]

What's it like going through life being the dumbest in the room (assuming Barry is not there)?

Well the story I heard on Fox was that all the oil released from the US reserve would end up in India and China. No coincidence this occurred just after his talks with Xi. Biden should be impeached.

Do I win?

I have seen that talking point but have yet to see a valid explanation of what it means.

With US production ramping up rapidly, and refinery capacity getting full, I expect US exports to China to increase. Most Americans would agree that is a good thing.

I'd post a reference to the flat coke thread but I know 2 posters here who would get the vapors about that.

I know you have referenced this several times in this thread. Could you post the links you are using as reference to help us see how this change is occurring and when we can expect to see its effects.

Also, could you share your thoughts on delivery in addition to production. Production is certainly important but we are also seeing supply chain issues related specifically to over the road transport in other areas. Do you anticipate any delivery issues as it relates to oil?

I believe the President has said this will be an issue through the winter and into spring (I think that's what I remember him saying). Is the information you are seeing and referencing going to shorten that time frame?

thanks

Queue up another reactive response from a lifelong politician proving yet again that experience does not equal qualified. You would think, with his touting of experience that he and his cabinet would be proactive. But instead the choice from day one was to close pipelines, lose control over supply, and blame OPEC was the move. Now, the response to try and save face by release the strategic reserves makes you look even worse. Another Biden Botch, yet the sympathizers will find anyway to defend it.

Sure.

The EIA forecasts production will rise to 11.6 million b/d in December. They forecast annual production will average 11.9 million b/d in 2022. For comparison Feb 2019 was 11.6 Million b/d. Feb 2021 was 9.7 Million b/d. Personally I think their forecast is on the low side.

Permian Basin production is expected to hit a record next month

Rig count is up big from last year. US is currently at 563, that is an increase of 253 from last year. Gulf of Mexico production is rebounding from Hurricane Ida.

Most oil in the US is transported via rail so I don't see huge transport issues but refinery capacity is certainly an issue and will affect gas prices.

The long term market is still very uncertain. The futures market is betting on $70 oil. The back end of the oil futures curve indicates traders betting on some scarcity from 2023 onward. Some of that may be due to a strong dollar (oil is priced in dollars).

Your post does not make any sense. Explain how any of Biden's policies affect today's US oil production. Be specific, don't' just parrot talking points you heard on Fox.

 



thank you

Tha vast amount released is high sulfur, which is not helping the constraints on sweet crude. Analysts are projecting this tiny short term fix by Biden will lead to higher prices next year.

Oil Steadies as Global Release of Strategic Reserves Underwhelms https://www.bloomberg.com/...reserves-underwhelms

I'd be curious to know how one goes about verifying that the US actually "released" these barrels from their reserves. And whether anyone is verifying that the other countries we have "coordinated" with have actual followed through and released barrels from their SOR.

I don't think anyone has claimed that this was anything but a small, short term, fix,

It is no surprise there was little immediate reaction. From your link

Quote:

The release of reserves was already priced into the oil markets for weeks, with oil having fallen $10 from its multiyear highs in October.

Interesting that you think prices will be higher next year. That is certainly possible if OPEC continues to restrict supply but the market does not think so. September 2022 Brent Crude is currently trading at $73.45. Brent Crude is currently at $82.09. You could make a tidy profit on that spread.

Personally I think you are right. There is a strong chance crude will be higher than $73 next year, but it will have nothing to do with Biden's policies.

32 million from reserves to possibly start mid December and be released over several months with oil companies taking possession and then returning it after prices have eased, the other 18 million were previously approved for sale and release will be accelerated. However, the market is so underwhelmed that as of this morning WTI price went up $1.01 to $77.76.

Biden Orders Release of U.S. Oil Reserves in Challenge to OPEC+ https://www.bloomberg.com/...may-draw-ire-of-opec

from the article you posted just above

India said it will release 5 million barrels, according to a statement. China didn’t disclose its contribution, but one Western official familiar with the matter said it would be relatively small, in the 7 million-to-15 million barrels range. South Korea said it will decide on details such as volume and timing after discussing with partner countries but indicated it could be about 3.5 million barrels. Japan indicated it would release 5 million barrels or less. The U.K. contribution is expected to be even smaller, the same official said.

edit: so looks like about 25 million combined from the partners. 50 million from the US including about 20 previously approved.

I don't believe any pipelines have been closed yet.

The keystone XL construction was halted but never ran.

Line 5 was shut down temporarily due to anchor damage, and was started again.

Unless I'm missing something

I was basing that on what analysts were saying. OPEC wants the price up of course. They have had plenty of issues over the past few years, with the Khashoggi murder also leaving MBS is a poor diplomatic position, which is probably the main reason Biden wont formally speak with him. They went from $750 billion in reserves to low to mid $400Bs. And the the 2019 event that took out half of the Saudi production. OPEC may restrict to combat the reserves release, and if a battle happens hard to bet against OPEC.

Easy- 2020 Biden ran strongly on 'End new oil and gas leases on federal land and end offshore drilling'. Queue up as the first ding against the US economy where the U.S. was leading in producing oil and natural glass.


From that reduced production or chance of production for domestic supply he followed it up with ending the keystone XL pipeline that could further help reduce the outside factors affecting prices.

Does it not look like he basically punted day 1 in office, torpedoed domestic oil/gas, ended pipeline possibilities, and now is trying to save face by releasing oil reserves after it already got extremely out of control?


Great call Joe, extremely delicate time with supply and demand issues across the board on everything else so lets tank our oil and gas to cause those prices to follow suit with everything else as well. So now what? Oil and gas reserves are off the board, what's next? Gas price mandates? Go against what you can on and bring back leases and drilling? Seems about right.

Am I mostly correct in these numbers I am cobbling togther

US release from reserve 50M
partners release from reserve 25M

total release from reserves 75M

ability of OPEC to produce per day 30M

Yup.

https://www.statista.com/...t-of-opec-countries/

In that case I would not bet against OPEC either.

edit: and that would assume these "releases" from the reserves didn't need to get built back up again at some point (possibly at an even higher price) (not betting against OPEC).

Where did you cut and paste this babble from? None of it is true

Biden paused new leases, not ended. This pause, some of which was for only 90 days, was to study the 100 year old leasing law and give recommendations to Congress. In the end the pause never happened. In fact the Biden administration has been approving leases at the highest rate in over a decade.

Pausing new leases on federal land has minimal affect on oil supply. There is already a backlog of 9,500 approved but unexplored leases and federal land is only 9% of US oil production.

End offshore drilling? Who told you that lie? The Biden administration just put of 80 Million acres in the Gulf for bid.

Keystone was years away and not needed. Gas mandates? What is that? Torpedo oil and gas? Production is up 20% since Biden took office.

You should just admit you have no idea what you are talking about instead of embarrassing yourself posting such drivel

That is what China has been doing. They built up a massive stockpile when oil was cheap during the height of the pandemic. They have been gradually releasing it to balance out the current high prices. They are getting to the point they need to start refilling those reserves.....at a much higher price.

I tend to agree on OPEC. Historically the US has lost when it gets in a fight with them, however we are now a large producer so that changes the equation.

Near term US producers are going to make a lot of $$$ in 2022. Long term OPEC could be baiting them into oversupply then flood the market and put a lot of them out of business.

I took a flyer on SDRL back around 2010-2012 because of the dividend paid. Got out well before their collapse. Perhaps I should pay more attention to all of this but a smart man told me never to bet on interest rates or oil prices.

I usually go for more macro bets. I was in VDE most of the year but recently got out. Good return but just too damn risky right now.

Long term many want to weaken OPEC's grip and have North American producers capture some of their markets (China). Trump actually did get China to buy a lot of oil for a few months. OPEC realizes this, which is why they are playing games.

The greens can moan about oil producers but the way to reduce drilling, and make the Saudi Jihadi funders less relevant, is to reduce demand. Shift to EVs

subject for another time but from my limited view I'm still trying to figure out how all the E is going to be produced to satisfy EV's demand.

Oh, I can talk about that for days. It actually is not as much of a burden as you would think. There were lots of hyperbolic claims a few years ago but real world studies indicate that most charging is off peak so we would probably need to increase production by only about 10% and this increase would come over a long period. Years. The larger investment would be the grid. In some countries, like Germany, that will be a real issue.

I'll take your word for it.

Happy Thanksgiving

Happy Thanksgiving!

Doing it again. Probably saw his new poll numbers.

https://wgntv.com/...m_content=share-link

Without comment

In true EricM wannabe style, let me state that we will see some maneuvers by this administration in late summer that will lower gas prices just in time for the midterms.

I’ll repost this prior to the November elections.

This a) won't reduce gas prices b) will increase feed prices

https://www.reuters.com/...off-taps-2022-09-20/

Ho Hum....we're at the lowest levels since 1984 .... commercial storage is higher than the SPR.... man that pipeline would be nice at the moment....

What pipeline? Pipelines in the US are running at 50% capacity. Do you mean Keystone? Keystone 1 & 2 have been up and operational for years. Keystone XL was not needed and if it had been approved would not have been live until late next year. It would not be fully functional for several years after that. Even at full capacity it would have added less than 1% to global supply.

WTI hit $78 today, lowest price since January. I would rather refill the SPR with American oil than that that Canadian stuff.

Ha. I doubt Windy even knows that the SPR is down in Texas and Louisiana. He also is likely not aware that 2022 will be a record year for Oil production in the U.S.

Windy probably also does not know that Biden's coordinated release of global supplies shaved .42 a gallon off US gas prices.
https://home.treasury.gov/...ress-releases/jy0887

Fixed it for you

How is posting lies "fixing it"?

Those two are, indeed, lies. You've given up on rational discussion, and are just going with "own the lib" trolling?

It's called a Royal Warrant

And yes I'd like to refill the SPR ASAP and only use it for you know real emergencies and not as a quasi-socialist state run economy regulator.

China wasn't the only country to release supply from their SPR. India, Japan, Republic of Korea, the United Kingdom and the U.S. did as well. It was a smart move and helped bridge a short term gap in supply and it lowered consumer prices by .42 per gallon

Yes, he most likely isn’t adding more oil supply. Thanks for correcting me.

Feel free to post Biden’s approval ratings

what would you do?

Up 9 points in 4 months

You made the claim that Joe has "The worst approval rating of any president".....show your math.

With regard to.....?

And yes I'd like to refill the SPR ASAP and only use it for you know real emergencies and not as a quasi-socialist state run economy regulator.

Biden released the SPR, what would you have done instead? what would be the impact of your actions? What constitutes a real emergency worthy of using the SPR? When would President Windy use it?

Done instead with regard to what exactly? I encourage you to look at the date of the first post of this thread before answering.

Faux News told him so. So it’s so.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

At the time of the first post on this thread oil producers were struggling to increase output. Some of it was due to a desire to maximize profit but a lot of it was due to supply chain issues. Biden wisely went and recruited multiple countries to release some of their SPRs to ease the global supply issues. He also actively lobbied the worlds largest oil producers to increase production.

Biden's effort worked. The Saudis, OPEC and the US increased production by millions of barrels per day. The US has seen 91 straight weeks of gas price declines. The release of the SPR is responsible for .42 per gallong of that decline.

The question is what would President Windy do? We already know the answer. You would throw rocks, dance around in circles, and run away.

I think that's 91 (or 99) straight days of gas price declines.

Yes, it’s terrific that diesel is $4.99 a gallon in Milwaukee and still worse in other areas.

Are you serious? Really?

Not hard to Google. First thing I found.

https://news.gallup.com/...al-dips-new-low.aspx

Biden had the lowest approval rating of any elected President on a 6 qtr average since elected.

We can ignore that now though, because he is up a whopping 9points (per another poster) since Trump is under fire and Biden pulled the college debt relief out of his magician hat.

Sorry your guy sucks, just admit it. Oh yeah- he isn’t Trump. Got it.

Exactly, when asked what he would do, Windy well doesn't have a thing to add, but he will throw rocks.

i'm curious about what you mean

Biden is looking better thanks to Trump's legal situation?

Trump voters are switching allegiance to Biden?

something else?

I'll answer the question when it's fucking specific. For example numbnuts....

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=7809409#p7809409

You said Biden has, present tense. You cherry picked something from several months ago. In those several months since your cherry pick he is up 9 points. Admit it, you claim is false.

Canceling Keystone has zero impact on today's oil prices. Even when it would have been running at full capacity several years from now it would add less than 1% to global supply.

Biden's policies did not increase gas prices but his release of the SPR, and his efforts to get other countries to do and increase production, did.......but you knew that.

Having a policy discussion with Windy is futile.

What should people pay for diesel?

How are you going to get the oil companies to charge customers what you think they should be charging?

---

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Not sure who, but I assume FOX has convinced the Trumpkins that Biden has increased gas prices by being mean to the oil companies.

I keep coming against this. The story has a couple angles. He canceled pipelines that would still not be online. He wants EV's and for us to be off oil. And he has called them mean names. None of this has affected oil supply mind you. But, the story goes, oil companies are so despondent that they have ceased exploration ( which of course wouldn't be online for year ) because what is the point of going on? And the big one, which is my favorite, the oil companies are intentionally choking supply and "refusing to work with Biden" because of their hurt feelings.

When asked why we shouldn't hold the oil companies accountable for intentionally attacking all Americans and harming the country because Biden was mean I have been met with silence.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

When Trump was mean it was good. Now Biden is mean and it's bad.

I can't keep up.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

As you can see on this thread there are plenty of people that fall for the bad faith talking points. When asked what he would do Windy does his usual deflection dance.

Today's GOP has zero interest in policy, just thin talking points to rally the base.

He has had a number of chances to put forward an answer, the question is quite simple. But Windy requires greater specificity, then engages in foul language and name calling.

Did you click the link where I answered your question? Or do you just prefer to mentally jerk off with the mentally unstable?

I did not click your link. The accepted norm is, answer the question:

The US Department of the Treasury analysis suggests that President Biden’s historic SPR release, in coordination with IEA partners, lowered the price of gasoline by 17 cents to 42 cents per gallon, with an alternate approach suggesting a point estimate of 38 cents per gallon. This decline in prices had meaningful benefits for American consumers and helped to mitigate the impacts of rising gas prices on economywide inflation. Moving forward, the Biden Administration is committed to further addressing concerns about rising energy prices.

Then provide the supporting evidence:

The Price Impact of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve Release | U.S. Department of the Treasury

Well if you had read the link you'd know I think the SPR should be used for supply interruptions not bringing down prices in ala a state run economy in an upcoming election year comrade

Well if you had read the linkyou'd know I think the SPR should be used for supply interruptions not bringing down prices in ala a state run economy in an upcoming election year comrade

See how easy that was. Now onto the main course:

Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy Benjamin Harris and Deputy Assistant Secretary for Climate and Energy Economics Catherine Wolfram

To help address rising energy prices and mitigate a shortfall in the production of oil owing to Russia’s war in Ukraine...

Harris & Wolfram state that the SPR release was to address price rise to mitigate shortfall in production. This could be considered a supply interruption?

I missed their piece on the SPR release being an action to win votes.

It is a quite simple question. The reasonable people here had no problem discussing it. Windy's response is to post a link that in no way answers it and then proceed with the usual rock throwing and name calling.

The globe was hit by multiple unprecedented events. Major supply chain issues that caused both OPEC and North American producers to struggle to get production going again. This supply constraint was coupled with a surge in demand as the global economy reopened.

In addition to the supply crunch Putin was starting his mobilization. Putin has a long history of weaponizing energy and Biden was smart enough to see that adding liquidity to the global market was going to be critical to combat Putin's games.

The administration has talked about not refilling until Q4 2023. They shot down the idea of refilling when prices go under $80, which happened on Friday. Personally I think they should go ahead with the November release and then gradually refill if WTI stays under $80.

Windy is just pissed that Biden did the right thing.

The war caused a supply interruption....

When did they turn in the SPR spigot? When did Russia invade?

All else being equal there wasn't a supply interruption. Russia kept producing and selling it. Why were Russian energy companies not completely sanctioned? (Hint Europe needed the energy). In no way shape or form was this a supply interruption necessitating an SPR release and to argue it was, is specious at best or disingenuous tribalism at worst.

If you followed this topic at all you would know that there have been major supply interruptions for much of the last 12 months

https://www.reuters.com/...ut-gains-2021-11-15/
https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2022/0419
https://www.argusmedia.com/...eigh-on-us-base-oils
https://www.spglobal.com/...ptions-platts-survey

OPEC and the US producers were struggling to get supply back on line. OPEC repeatedly missed their quotas. Some of it was due to maximizing profits but most of it was due to supply chain issues.

Now I know why you refused to answer a simple question......you really do not understand this topic.

It’s not about that. It’s about someone posting gas prices are down the last 90 days which is deflection from the current issue. They are acting like the problem doesn’t exist. It still exists.

Can we agree on “had”?

Your guy sucks. Own that shit. Don’t come back with- oh, that was a couple months ago bs.

Here's the way I look at it....the SPR is for something really serious.... Katrina wiping out 80% of production in the gulf for example. Turning on the spigot in 2021 was to keep prices down instead of letting the market sort it out. The Russian invasion could have been a reason but turned out it wasn't....

So when is the SPR spigot getting turned off. Now look at a calendar that has the US mid-term election on it. Make sense yet?

Now you are just showing your ignorance.

There was absolutely supply chain interruptions throughout the fall of 2021. I have already posted multiple links that confirm how limitations of labor, steel pipe, and equipment put major constraints on production

Russian oil exports to Northwest Europe dropped more than 80% from their peak in Nov. 2021. The war in Ukraine took more than 1 million bpd off the global market and that number was even higher in March as countries scrambled.

Nope.

Your posts are a good example why today's GOP is incapable of a policy discussion. You blame Biden for high gas prices but can't explain why. Windy says it was a mistake to release the SPR but cannot explain why and does not even know there was a global supply crunch.

"Your guy sucks" is what today's GOP thinks is a policy discussion.

The reality is I just like his policies.

And he isn't interested in overthrowing the government. Which is always a positive in a president.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Not exactly. The combo of Katrina and Rita took about 8% of US production off line for while. Of the roughly 4,000 production facilities in federal waters, 37 platforms were destroyed. Those produced about 1% of total Gulf production. Oil prices spiked to $70 but quickly dropped down again. In end the US only released about 30% of what it had planned from the SPR as other producers took up the slack

U.S. oil production in November 2020 was 13 Million bpd. In November 2021 it was 11 Million bpd. Oil prices hit $143 per barrel in March.

Windy logic
8% reduction in production = Release the SPR!
16% reduction in production = Don't release the SPR! That would be Socialism!
Oil at $70 per barrel = Release the SPR!
Oil at $143 per barrel = Don't release the SPR!

So you're saying it's not about the cost of diesel fuel? Why did you bring that up?

Was releasing the SPR a good thing? Would it have been better to have left the SPR in the ground? If the current cost of diesel fuel is a problem, what would you do differently to lower the cost of diesel fuel?

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Why are you such a liar, and especially about something so easily disproven? GasBuddy shows the top ten prices in Milwaukee County ranging from $4.19 to $4.74, and the map of Milwaukee shows prices ranging from $4.49 to $4.74. Did you have to search hard to find $4.99/gallon?

Where is it worse? GasBuddy shows the top ten prices in Wisconsin ranging from $3.89/gal to $4.19/gal.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Not sure if there is anything that can be done. The spike in diesel is almost completely due to Putin's invasion of Ukraine. US refineries are running flat out right now so more more oil would not help.

Unfortunately I think the diesel issue could get even worse in coming months.

I see different numbers for milwaukee wi than you do for Diesel. It shows me 4.39 to 5.18

It is easier for jharris to overcharge little old ladies when he lies to them that gas prices are through the roof! Have you seen his Yelp rating? Worse in WI history!

Yeah, it looks like jharris wasn't being truthful. Plenty of places under $4.99.

Now that Joe has brought down gas prices what do you suggest he do about diesel prices? I don't think there is much he can do.

Careful.... that's agreeing with me

So now you agree with Biden providing a temporary buffer when the worlds top oil producers were experiencing production issues.

Good to hear you have come to your senses.

All I'm getting from this is that I need to go to burger King 🤴

Maurice

That’s a fair statement. ‘Merica!

Our conversation was about Biden having shitty approval ratings.

Own the reality of his shit numbers this summer.

Just say you like the guy with shitty approval rating numbers from a few months ago, although now he is up a bit from his low. Just say it. I want you to take ownership.

....Joe Biden releasing oil from the SPR. He also convinced China, India, South Korea, the UK, and Japan to join in and also release oil onto the global market. The Treasury department says that effort was worth .42 per gallon in gas price reductions for the American consumer during a time of tight global supply.

He also lobbied US producers and the Saudis to produce more. They did. The result of his effort was 91 days of consecutive gas price decreases.

No wonder his approval is up 9 points since July. You guys are going to need to come up with some better lies for the midterms. The "Joe Biden raised gas prices" needs to be retired as it makes the GOP look foolish.

"Our conversation was about Biden having shitty approval ratings."

How bad would a Republican's approval ratings have to be for you to refer to them as "really shitty?"


Biden's rating has been significantly better than Trump's.

Significantly better than GWB's 2nd term.

Pretty close to Reagan's first two year trend.



Don't bother, I already know the answer. If a Democrat is president, 4 dead in Benghazi is the worst thing that could ever happen. If 3,000 die in a terrorist attack, or 7,000 during a stupid war, or a million die during a pandemic........well, that's really not that many people.



Four people died, jharris. FOUR. FOUR!!! You don't think that's a big deal, tell that to their families. FOUR!!!!!!!

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Same issue brah. Point of diesel at $4.99 a gallon isn’t an achievement. It’s a problem. Say it’s a problem.

I think most right wingers just want the lefties to admit to the issue. $4.99 a gallon for diesel is a problem. Biden low approval rating is a problem.

Yes?

It’s more like:

Ignore the problem

Approval ratings suck

Eh…. Let’s throw the right wingers a bone

Lefties like- my guy rocks! What’s wrong with you righties!!!

Lefties like $4.99 for diesel, nothing to see here. My guy rocks.

No. The problem is you repeating BS. Maybe you should talk to the owners of the station selling diesel at above-market prices.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I have said it is a problem, one that is likely to get worse, not better.

What did Biden do to cause it and what you suggest Biden do to fix it? Be specific.

No one says "Joe Biden rocks!" Last I checked, I haven't seen convoys of pickups or boats full of people wearing Biden Rocks hats.


Good grief, talk about projection.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

What? You don't have three Biden flags flying from your car while wearing a Joe Biden Rocks! hat?

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Look at who he dutifully ballwashes for, and you have the answer to your bolded question.

what happened to you? when you first came on the board you were the reasonable righty that lefties could talk to. breath of fresh air. now you're the garden variety caustic righty flame thrower.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You may be right or wrong about him being caustic, but these are not the points to argue that on. His is correct on both his points. I don't know how Kliener got his prices for Milwaukee County, but if you use gas buddy and look at Milwaukee, WI, you see the high price you see the price high is 5.18. If you scroll through the prices you see many Speedways selling it for 4.99. Speedway is typically a discount gas station.

His other point is also easy to confirm. He gave a link. Biden does have the lowest average approval raiting at 6 quarters into their presidency. Only slightly lower than Trump and Carter, but lower. Now when the 7th quarter numbers come out, perhaps that will change, but currently he has the lowest.

Its is sad so many people argue with him when he is actually right this time. People are way too quick to call him a liar (not you others).

that's not what i'm pissed off about. what really cheeses me is that - just by reading this thread - sam's club offers diesel in milwaukee but not in any of the california clubs that i go to. that's just not right!

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Ha Ha!

I don't think the question is whether you could find it that expensive if you wanted to overpay. More that it isn't anywhere close to that expensive if you try even a little bit.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yes but you can charge your EV at Sam's Clubs st night......

doggamm right. an EV is my next vehicle purchase.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Top 10 are all 4.69 and under
https://www.gasbuddy.com/...onsin/milwaukee/2902

The current average price for Diesel for all of Wisconsin is $4.72. which is down .10 from a month ago

So jharris was not being truthful and it was reasonable to question his claim.

What do you think Biden should do to lower diesel prices? I actually think this is a very important issue that is not getting enough attention. I am not sure what the Federal government can do to fix it though as it is mostly a global issue.

To question his truthfulness you should be able to show none of the prices are 4.99 or higher. But actually 1/3 of the stations for Milwaukee have diesel at 4.99 or higher. The highest is 5.18. Just admit it was wrong for people to call him a liar.

Where do you get this number?

So 66% were below the number he cited.....yeah, he lied.

Hypothetical alert.

A sports writer covers a race where 67 out of 100 runners finished in under 20 minutes. The 68th runner finished in 21 minutes. The writer's article reads, "The finishing time was 21 minutes or higher." Maybe not "lying", but not a great sports writer.

Back on topic (sort of).

Did Biden cause the price of diesel fuel to go up by releasing some of the SPR?

Regardless, what could Biden (or anyone else) do to lower the price of diesel fuel?

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Hypothetically, you are talking to a friend who mention gas is 4.99. You going to call him a liar because he did not find the cheapest gas in a major city? If so do you have any friends?

No, the release of the SPR had little to no affect on diesel.

The issue with diesel is super complicated. There is a demand issue but a lot of it also has to do the Russia decreasing the gas flows to Europe. Refineries use gas to produce hydrogen, which they then use to remove sulphur from diesel. The spike in gas prices in late 2021 made that process super expensive, cutting diesel output. The US is exporting more to fill that gap. Russia was also a massive exporter of diesel so there is a gap in the market. Add to this Europe might use diesel as a replacement for natural gas over the winter due to tight gas supplies.....that could make things much worse.

I have no idea how to fix this. Maybe a massive recession bringing down demand.

He’s not lying. He’s misrepresenting the numbers to make someone he doesn’t like look worse. It’s an argument rooted in bad faith and completely unnecessary to fudge the numbers. It wasn’t close to the mean or median. Just let it go. There’s no need to defend every specious argument because they come from a point of view you agree with.

I live here and drive a diesel car. I know what I pay. But hey, what do I know. Use that keyboard my friend.

By the way, diesel isn’t gasoline. So, maybe that’s part of your problem. Use the filter and select diesel on your gas buddy website.

I am now short tempered. I comment diesel is $4.99 and someone claims not true given gas buddy…. A website they don’t know how to use the “filter” for the fuel type. They were looking at 87 octane gasoline.

The real problem I have is how fast everyone jumps to argue for no other reason than to argue or an attempt to “win”. It’s sad, given that we have a wide range of boots on the ground in so many areas. It would be beautiful if people could report the news on what they see. Instead, they rely on news sources as they sit miles and miles away and trust the ST members word for it.

Whatever.

Anyway, as I’m short tempered and probably going to miss my plane flight home, I’m awaiting Hurricane Ian as it’s about to blast the area here. I’m just not in the mood to argue of foolish stuff.

My friend isn't a liar because, being my friend, he's not trying to score political points by distorting reality, as jharris is doing.

If my friend says the price of a house in my town is $3.5million, I'll tell him he's wrong: there are probably a number of homes that cost that much, but that isn't the reality of home prices in my town. jharris isn't just wrong: his posting history shows that he knows better and he's lying.

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Post #157 contains the screen capture that shows I selected diesel, and shows the map with a number of prices, none of which are close to $4.99. Use your own keyboard on that website.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Look at post #157, where the drop down clearly shows I selected diesel.

I didn't post that to "win;" I posted that to show that you aren't an honest broker. Rather, you are someone who will distort reality so *you* can "win."

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Again, this is why the LR is so ridiculous. Your going to use the Internet and find a gas station cheaper than $4.99 and act as if I’m “lying”. Hey dork, when I’m traveling and I drive past a gas station cheaper than my usual 4 gas stations near me that are all $4.99- don’t you think I stop and fill up? The days I’m near Costco (which is 30 min away and I won’t drive specifically to for gas), don’t you think I fill up? When I’m in Illinois and it’s even more than $4.99, but I’m low and need fuel, don’t you think I’m pissed when I have to fill up! Don’t you think I try to plan ahead and gas up in Wisconsin at $4.99 on the days I’m going to Illinois so I don’t get pissed off that I’m paying more ?

These are normal human behavior responses. Again, my stations near me that I buy diesel at are $4.99 a gallon

Further, I do what I can within what I can control and I don’t count on Biden. My XOM gains have hedged my fuel expenditures, but that’s another conversation.

I’m the meantime, I have about 48 hrs until I’m smashed with Hurricane Ian. Don’t piss me off about crap that is so silly.

Diesel is $4.99 near me. Be done with it.