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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you.

STA max is a hair over 82 if you max it out - plenty of set back.

You can add the drive side meter for dual numbers.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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I have been asked to work up a frame price and I am working on it now.

A frame set price will include: Frame, Fork, Stem, Stem Cover, Cockpit, Rear Storage, BB Cover, Front and Rear Brakes, Seat Post and all the related hardware.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Shimano SM-BB72-41B Press Fit

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
Yeah not really excited about this one, but I wish the owner luck, at least he's trying.

My take is:
1. Somewhat generic frame from Taiwan. I realize its not the exact same, but looks a lot like the dengfu frames that companies like 'Squad' use, that can be bought online with generic paint for 1k, with someone elses name slapped on it. Probably doesn't matter to some, but this frame will have pretty miserable resale value.
2. Generic wheels that are very heavy ,again, low resale value too.
3. Yeah, neat that a powermeter is on there, but that can be bought for $500.
4. Case, nice, also $300-$500.
5. Ultegra Di2, yes nice, but again, its really not that pricey these days to buy ultegra di2 shifters and derailleurs.

I'm not really seeing the $5500 US price tag as some amazing value. Just my .02, nothing personal.

Probably the wheels will not have too high resale value, but everything I've seen indicates that this is definitely not a generic Taiwan frame and with a lead article on ST and the interest from these threads I think the resale will be reasonable; of course you'll take a hit as with anything but shouldn't be the giveaway that an open mold frame would command.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
When I told Dan they were open mold - I may have been a bit too non-specific. I just meant that PremierBike did not have anything to do with the design etc.. We went with one of the largest private label manufacturers around, they have been in business since 2010 and make thousands of wheels each year under many labels; we specified the hubs and spokes and they are making ours right along the same production line as many brands you see every day.

These are very high quality wheels with a two year warranty. I just did not want anyone to think we were trying to claim something that was not accurate.

Sounds like you're more an engineering guy than a marketing guy! (That's a compliment, by the way).

I'd suggest a different URL for your site. "Premierholding" sounds like some sort of dubious financial services company. Something simple. Looks like premiertribike or premier-bike are available, among others. You could still have the existing URL point to the site as well so existing links don't break. Website mostly just needs some tweaking, fix typos, higher res PDFs, complete list of specs.

Good luck with your venture!
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Re: Premier Tactical [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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"Proportionally, but there's nothing low about a min stack of 565 for the product line as a whole"

that's because you're only looking at the frame geometry. if you look at the stem and aerobar geometry, that more than offsets the frame geometry. only the real long/low outliers can't ride this bike.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Am I correct in thinking that you're saying that other bikes claim low numbers but that is only with the frame and once the bar and stem is included the stack increase dramatically?

And it looks like 563 is the low number. ;)
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Re: Premier Tactical [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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i'm saying that the height of the pads in relation to the length is a combo of frame geometry, stem geometry, and aerobar geometry.

for example, a tririg alpha x aerobar has a pad height as low as about 25mm above the centerline of the pursuit bar, but the integrated stem options are quite long. the bar itself is a very long/low bar. so that bar on a midrange geometry bike makes the bike a rather long/low bike.

a typical profile design aerobar has pads about 60mm above the centerline of the pursuit bar. that means a tall bike (for its length) like the shiv is not taller than midrange bikes (like the IA, speed concept, P series cervelos) by as much as the profile bar is taller than the tririg. if you were to put a tririg alpha x on a shiv, assuming it would go on there, that's an altogether longer/lower bike than, say, a cervelo p5.

now, we have had bikes in the past that just don't have any small sizing. or any large sizing. when the cannondale slice rs (may it rest in peace) was introduced, it really didn't have large sizes. they were called large. they had an M, an L, maybe an XL (i don't remember). but the largest size was really kind of a medium in other bikes.

when you point to the lowest pad height on the tactical, i'm not saying that's especially low. rather, it's low compared to its length. still, it's pretty low. a size small in a speed concept can go as low as 555mm, the tactical's small is 565mm. yes, you can get a smaller pad height in a speed concept, because an XS frame is made. there are more speed concept frame sizes.

but the 565mm compared to the length makes this a bike that would work pretty well for people who need a bike with length compared to the height.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice bike. I'd totally buy this one if I could afford it.
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
You obviously aren't from the northeast and can't fully appreciate Pubes' cantankerous attitude. He is certainly predictable in his approach but very "Philly"

Just because it's regional doesn't mean it is not tiresome.
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Re: Premier Tactical [JSully] [ In reply to ]
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It is not tiresome. Someone needs to put some criticisms out there. He does it in a abrasive way you could say but I like it. His points are almost always valid whether you agree or not. Most bad decisions in this world could have been avoided if you had a critic tell you straight up and not sugarcoat it that its a bad idea. You cannot surround yourself with yes men and end up with successful products. He keeps its real which is nice. Its good to have someone step out of flock of sheep and throw a little thought into what can be better. To me he seems to never settle for good enough and that is a quality that is missing in todays world.
Last edited by: mknight84: Dec 2, 16 8:51
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Re: Premier Tactical [mknight84] [ In reply to ]
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I really don’t mind those comments at all. It gives me a chance to explain our product and our company.

To that end - I thought I should provide an overview.

We started the bike development work in March 2014. The work prior to that was technical, competitive and market research. At first it was just me, then 3 of us then 5 people together working on the project. We were working on everything; a highly motivated team and we had a clear target; to make the best triathlon bike in the world and a bike people could afford; the bike that athletes were asking for.

If I had not built a positive reputation over the past 20 years; manufacturing technical products in Taiwan - this bike would not have been possible. This is a very consolidated industry on the manufacturing side. There are no mediocre factories in Taiwan today. PremierBikes’ Tactical is made at the same factory in Taiwan - producing top-of-the-line bikes, which readers here discuss, praise and admire on Slowtwitch everyday. The quality companies just don’t need to work with unproven entities.

Shimano is Shimano – we spec DI2 as standard equipment. We include the best Continental tires and tubes - standard. Our race wheels (wide rear CC disk and front 24 cm deep carbon clincher include high quality spokes and hubs) they are standard equipment and are made for us; just like they are made for the best companies that are talked about and sell to contributors here on Slowtwitch. Our components are all top of the line – well except for the $10 seat.

We have a staff in Taiwan that check on things everyday. But its’ not a question of manufacturing excellence, quality control, the quality of the carbon fiber or the lay-up – that is fairly fixed. If we at PremierBike have made a manufacturing “partner error” then the top companies in the industry have made the same partnering errors.

Yes – PremierBike did all the visual design work, geometry, set the specifications and did the up front CAD design, the CFD and the FEA work. We also did the post manufacturing aero confirmation work. But lets be clear – its’ our Taiwan manufacturing partners - that are exposed too and develop the advancements, the lay-up, new techniques and lessons learned from working with marketing companies around the world. The best manufacturing factories have incrementally carried forward, refined and enhanced a lot of the gains that athletes enjoy today and it has been very important for PremierBike to have learned and gained from their advancements. Very few companies can honestly claim these gains without the factory expertise.

We didn’t have legacy costs and systems to deal with - we could go with absolute best practices, methods and materials. We started without multi layer distribution, huge executive staffs and bloated marketing programs – these costs - which make up a huge part of the price of products – are passed on to athletes and it’s gotten out of control. Their bloat and structures are an advantage to us.

Competition is always nice. It shows you the best of what you can get, but to determine who is best is very subjective. I think with our bike design, the quality manufacturing, standard components, ease of travel, day- to-day usability and value – IMO our bike is the best package. It’s the bike many athletes have been asking for.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I have been asked to work up a frame price and I am working on it now.

A frame set price will include: Frame, Fork, Stem, Stem Cover, Cockpit, Rear Storage, BB Cover, Front and Rear Brakes, Seat Post and all the related hardware.

I could potentially fall into this category some day in the future. Being that I would probably already have wheels, power meter and potentially prefer SRAM e-tap.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider - I posted The Frame Only price on the website a few minutes ago.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan- Thanks for covering the bike on the home page, otherwise I would not have known about it. Very interesting!

One thing I think that is very unique and interesting is the "Sponsor Program". As it is now, it doesn't work for my "business plan" as an athlete, but I think it is great for a lot of athletes out there. Not sure if you ever edit your articles, but might be worth annotating in there.

For those that haven't stumbled across it yet, you can find full details here: http://www.premierholding.org/...ored-athlete-program

Our Program is a participation program and has no bearing on finish position.

PremierBike will fund a “Sponsored Athlete Pool” in an amount equal to two (2%) of the net sales of “TACTICAL” bikes during each Sponsored Athlete Program Period for distribution to Sponsored Athlete(s).


-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Coached By: Scott DeFilippis
Team RWB Ambassador | Deals & Discounts from Sponsors
Supported by: Clever Training| Kiwami Tri | Spinlister| Precision Hydration | ISM| Cervelo | CeramicSpeed
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Re: Premier Tactical [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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I had a chance to work on some of the website links, added a few videos and increased the clarity on the geometry and assembly chart. Thank you for the suggestions.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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The title in the browser tab is your email address! Should be company name (and page name).

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I like.
I really want to hear from triathletes that have rode this bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I rode this bike pretty hard for the first time yesterday. It was on the track doing some aero testing so it wasn't a true real world situation but I still got some quality time on the bike and played with a few more things.

I really like the seat clamp. I know this is minor but for those of us who work on bikes often (fitters and wrenches) saddle clamps can be a horror. This one is straight forward, logical, easy to use and allows for a wide range of seat angles.

To travel with the bike and to fit it into it's own bike case - the aerobars extensions are the only part of the handle bar that has to be moved. The unbolting of those is easy and quick. It's a joy.

During the test I was alternating from my Felt IA 10 to the Tactical and since the seat height, pad stack and pad reach were the same between both bikes (as were saddle, pedals and wheels) I was able to feel the similarities between the bikes. There was no difference. Both felt solid and stiff and both gave the same feeling of power transfer. I started adding this little test during the cool down lap of every trail where I'd go up high on the track in the corner and then drop down to the flats in apron and both bikes felt the same in that rather rough transition.

As a fitter I like this bike 'cuase it can work for so many people. As a coach I like this bike because it is essentially a $10,000 super bike for $5,500 and it has a power meter on it as a standard feature. As an athlete I like this bike 'cause it comes with Ui2 and the ease with which is packs and travels.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm really looking forward to seeing a video of the case :) I travel with a Scicon Aerotech Evo case now but to be able to carry an extra wheel and not have to unbolt the basebar... I'd jump on that case. Heck, I might sell my Shiv and start traveling with my Speed Concept again :)

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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I am working on a video for the travel case now. I will post it as soon as it is completed.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Which bike was faster and what was the setup (i.e. any bottles, etc. on the bikes)?
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Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
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At the LSWT the PremierBike Tactical was faster in every configuration tested from 0-10 degrees of Yaw.

Yesterday we received preliminary results from the (rider-on) Velodrome testing that again confirmed PremierBike was faster.

When hydration was added - the bike was even faster yet.

We have authorized Jim Manton at ERO Sports, LLC to post a complete unedited report of all results, including raw data - at the same time he provides the report to us at PremierBike. We are looking forward to reading it.

The complete wind tunnel data (including raw data) has been published at http://www.Premierholding.org under the "Home Tab". The data is presented in both Grams and Cda.

Because the raw data "font" is very small, it's hard to read. I will be happy to email the information to anyone interested in viewing the details - please just PM me with an email address.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Are there any pictures showing the bottle setup? I'm interested to see which/if BTA works best/at all with the pad risers being spaced wider like on the Tactical
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Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
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iamAERO - We modeled 5 different hydration set ups on the bike during development. Different types, different storage options, different positions and different manufacturers.

We designed our own hydration that "computer tested" really well but (mold costs made that design prohibative).

The best "computer results" for the Tactical was the Profile Design FC35 at all adjustments with 0-60 mm of "Stack" spacers on all three sizes.

That computer modeling proved to be correct from the numbers I have seen - for the PremierBike Tactical in the testing - yet to be published.

I was not present for the velodrome testing but I would think we will get pictures with the report.

Edit: FC 35 not HC35

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Dec 9, 16 8:01
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