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Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Shhh don't start picking I was just beginning to feel better about myself. Generally reading these forums or looking at zwift etc makes me depressed as I seem to be the only one with an ftp below 350 watts. That fact that everyone's cda seemed higher than my velodrome testing was making me feel better and a bit less fat -pass me another mince pie.
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Edit to add Slowtwitch Discount code: "SICKLE" in homage to the article saying I price the bike like I'm a communist :-)

GreatScott: I think your plan is a good one. It is the plan I have used for my own racing and training.

From what I have read on the ICE Friction website that process is very similar to other process methods that have been available. I believe their claim about improved performance for 200- 400 miles is accurate.

Some companies omit the MSO2 because it is a black powder and does not make the chain as visually appealing. So - no black ICE.

For the rest of the drive train just keep it clean. The chain friction savings is mostly within the chain surfaces (pins, sleeves, inner and outer link plates), the material ratio curves of each component and the interaction between them.

The wax is a great barrier to moisture and grit. The chain will perform fine in those conditions but needs to be cleaned more than in dry clean conditions. The time frame for the wax is highly dependent on the weather. It will last 200 - 300 miles in the worst conditions.

Personally - I take the chain off using the Connex link and clean it in a citrus cleaner (less smelly and works fine) for home cleaning. Then I reapply the wax blend but that is not necessary. You will maintain most of the friction reduction with a high quality lube sold at your LBS.




GreatScott wrote:
Simplicity can be so elegant. I wouldn't be surprised to find something else out there is marginally faster, but I haven't seen anything that comes close in simplicity. Premier just lept above ICE Friction as the leading candidate for my race day drivetrain. Can you comment on how your chains compare to ICE?

I intend to keep a fresh chain "race ready"; swapping out the training chain/cassette prior to major races. Vice-Versa afterwards; back to the training set up. Any thoughts on that approach?

A few follow ups:
~What treatment do you recommend for the rest of the drivetrain prior to installing a fresh chain? Are mineral spirits necessary?
~How do freshly treated chains perform in wet conditions?
~What type of longevity can we expect from the wax coating?
~Can the chains be re-coated?

Scott

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Dec 14, 16 6:38
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Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Power meters have been the biggest headache for us since beginning with Alphamantis. So many seem to be riding around with PM's that aren't working properly mostly due to user error/lack of upkeep. We got to the point a few years ago where we use our own Powertap wheel no matter what. I'll take it to Rich at Wheelbuilder every now and then to make sure it's calibration is correct. It's reliable and also acts as a great speed sensor.

.30 or higher is very typical for triathletes coming in for initial aero testing. Sometimes, though, there's only so much you can do. This video is from a few years ago, but it's a very good age group triathlete with a very good position, and yet his CdA is right around .30. Why? You can't necessarily see it in the video, but Slater has huge shoulders. Shoulders are a CdA killer, which you know, but others probably don't realize.

Re: Ray Maker - we didn't have time the day he was here, but that is a fit I'd love to work on. He's a big guy, but I didn't like his position at all.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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GreatScott

I have added some images of the metal surface before and after treatment. http://www.premierholding.org/...ucts/optimized-chain

These are photos before the WAX/PTFE/MSO2 lubricant is applied.

This shows the difference between our process and other "Optimized Chains".

Our surface base metal treatment is a physical change to the chain surfaces.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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If you used a PT hub for the velodrome tests of the Tactical (as somewhat implied by the statement in your report that the bike was set up identically as for the wind tunnel tests), then the explanation you provided for the discrepancy in the benefit found under the two conditions is incorrect.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill,

A couple of factors that you might add to the stew: I asked Jim quite plainly what I needed to do during the test to execute the goal of this particular test accurately. I hadn't ridden with Jim in the virtual tunnel on velodrome before and I wanted to deliver on an accurate comparison of the Felt IA10 with the Premier Tactical. He asked me to ride steady, in fact that was the thing he kept coming back to. I also had to avoid changing positions between the bikes - and I'm not talking set up, the seat height, pad stack and pad reach were the same on both bikes - I'm talking about the body position tweaks that we can all make while we're riding. I wasn't "turtle-ing" or striving in any way - I was just perched on the arm pads and rollin' steady. My morphology is 6'1", 183, fairly broad shouldered - in terms of road cyclists I'm of the larger verity. And lastly, my fit is so, so, so comfortable: c-t-c on my arm pads is 240mm, when I settle into the aero-position I can hang there all day like I'm in a crib and I love that. I've ridden narrower, lower, longer, etc and this is a place I really love and have nurtured.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Premier Tactical [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
If you used a PT hub for the velodrome tests of the Tactical (as somewhat implied by the statement in your report that the bike was set up identically as for the wind tunnel tests), then the explanation you provided for the discrepancy in the benefit found under the two conditions is incorrect.

Ah, yes, my apologies. For the velodrome tests, obviously we had a PT hub-based wheel with a 40mm depth vs the disc used on the tunnel. I'll correct that. Still, at least some of the difference would be the chain with it's increased efficiency interpreted by the software as a drag reduction.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I need to clarify an issue that has come up with both bike orders and chain orders.

We have had a lot of orders for Canada, UK, Australia, Switzerland and Germany. We are not currently set up to ship orders outside the US. The products are priced based on ocean freight / duty from Taiwan to the US and outbound freight within the US.

I am working with individuals on purchases out side the US but there is additional freight and duty on the customers end for international shipments. As an example freight on chains shipped internationally is between US$45 - $90. I'm looking for better alternatives but have not yet found a better solution.

In addition, we have been contacted by and are considering a few independent distributors in a few countries that we can ship bikes directly to - from Taiwan - to keep customers costs at the same levels as US customers.

Thanks for all the interest.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Dec 16, 16 14:26
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
If you used a PT hub for the velodrome tests of the Tactical (as somewhat implied by the statement in your report that the bike was set up identically as for the wind tunnel tests), then the explanation you provided for the discrepancy in the benefit found under the two conditions is incorrect.

Ah, yes, my apologies. For the velodrome tests, obviously we had a PT hub-based wheel with a 40mm depth vs the disc used on the tunnel. I'll correct that. Still, at least some of the difference would be the chain with it's increased efficiency interpreted by the software as a drag reduction.

I'm still not following. In the wind tunnel, you measure CdA without respect or even knowledge of drivetrain efficiency. The same is true when performing field tests with power measured at the hub. Under identical conditions (whereas you used different wheels) there should be no systematic difference (offset) between the two*, and if there is, you've got a problem.

*Cue Tom A to bring up the tiny amount of rotational drag that generally isn't included in wind tunnel measurements...but before he does, I'll remind him that would result in the wind tunnel results being a hair lower than field test results, whereas the Tactical data go the opposite way.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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thats a real shame you can't do international orders at sensible shipping rates. you should be able to ship a chain from taiwan to near anywhere in the world for next to nothing and then i'd be ordering some
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Just a thought for Canada. Get the bikes to your location, send to Canada in two boxes. Then you can call it bike parts as opposed to "bike"

Always ship via usps , they connect via Canada post and there are rarely end user charges. Basically with FedEx dhl and ups I always get weird "brokerage" charges at the end.

I won't buy from u.s. companies that ship this way as you never know how much you pay at the door.

You should be able to ship to Canada for about 100-150$ extra.

My 2c

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you - I will look into that.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [pk1] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks.

The chains are installed on the bikes here in the US. The individual chains are all done in a post process in the US as well - so I need to figure out a solution from here.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, look into it. I am just a consumer so things may have changed.

IIRC under NAFTA bike parts are exempt but a complete bike is not exempt (IE duty applies)

The issue with non USPS shipments is that the end user (consumer) in Canada will always get a surprise with private companies via "brokerage" charges (note:not duty)

The issue is that Fedex will give you no satisfaction, so the pissed off consumer will come back to you to vent....even though it is not your fault.

Canadians are generally reasonable people ;-) a shipping charge over and above what the price of the bike is understood..as long as it's reasonable.

You are a new business...a bike business...that is tough, you won't be able to please everyone re shipping and delivery.

I honestly hope you make a go of it.

Cheers,
Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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I was asked to put together a video of the Hard Travel Case. This video was put together using our original sample. I have shipped this case about 20 times both in the US and Internationally. I inserted some "screen shots" that show some of the upgrades made from original sample to production. Better and more padding, a larger accessory bag and better wheel/tire covers.

For domestic flights I have been charged between $0 - $50.00 each way; for international flights (including the domestic legs) I have never been charged. I primarily fly on Southwest and Frontier Airlines domestically and American/China Airlines internationally.

The cases will be available in 30 days. The case will work for other brand bikes as long as you can remove the extension bars. Total packing time is about 5 minutes.

http://www.premierholding.org/products/bike-travel-case


This case is also the "shipping case" for our Tactical Triathlon Bike. Customers who order our bike will take delivery with the bike in this case. From taking delivery at your door-step to being on the road and riding your new PremierBike Tactical - is about 10 minutes.





*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jan 16, 17 9:29
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

I checked out the video. Looks great! Oh man am I excited for this year. Lots of trips planned. Normally I dread flying with my bike but, with this case, things are looking up!

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

The case description lists two front and one rear wheel. The parts show two front and one rear wheel skewer. Have you tried the case using two rear wheels and one front? A very common race travel situation is rear deep wheel and rear disc with one front wheel. It would be great to have this option. From the photos it looks like two of the three wheel pocket openings would be too shallow for accepting a cassette, so you could only fit a second rear wheel with the cassette facing the frame.

I took a quick look through the Tactical specs and didn't see a bar width. Can you please provide? I'm most interested in the out to out dimension or specifically the interior width of the case in the handlebar pockets.

Thanks!
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Re: Premier Tactical [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - two rear wheels will work as well. You could face the cassette toward the bike with the padding in between or put it on the single wheel side facing outward. If you chose the second option it would stick out a bit more but would fit. Just need to use one of your quick releases. (Your bike quick release is used to secure the rear mech guard on the frame).

The inside max width is about 435 mm. The Tactical Base Bar width (out-side to outside with Ultegra DI2 Shifters is
419 mm.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher - Optimized Chain Freight - we have gotten the freight rates for our Optimized Chains down to US$22.75 for orders outside the US.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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I was just going through the old posts and wanted to let you know that we have added an aero spacer tilt to the package. Thank you for in-put. Everything we did on this bike was based on suggestions from athletes and forum contributors.

I also added an under-mount for the extensions so I could get the stack a bit lower on the Small (-35 mm).

Again, thanks for your comments and in-put.

Dan

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jan 16, 17 16:22
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I was just going through the old posts and wanted to let you know that we have added an aero spacer tilt to the package. Thank you for in-put. Everything we did on this bike was based on suggestions from athletes and forum contributors.

I also added an under-mount for the extensions so I could get the stack a bit lower on the Small (-35 mm).

Again, thanks for your comments and in-put.

Dan

Will the tilt kit still work with the under-mount and if so, how much stack does this add?
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Re: Premier Tactical [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI:

The tilt kit will work for the normal over mount set-up. For the tilt option, the tapered aero-spacer sets up under each extension bar so it would not work (positioned on top) with the extension tube - under the base bar - utilizing the under mount.

We have had a few athletes in the 5'5" - 5"6" range that wanted to get a bit lower so we worked out an option to slam the elbow pads to the base bar and run the extensions under the bar bar. That configuration would work on the other sizes but is not really necessary with all the stack overlap between sizes.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
LAI:

The tilt kit will work for the normal over mount set-up. For the tilt option, the tapered aero-spacer sets up under each extension bar so it would not work (positioned on top) with the extension tube - under the base bar - utilizing the under mount.

We have had a few athletes in the 5'5" - 5"6" range that wanted to get a bit lower so we worked out an option to slam the elbow pads to the base bar and run the extensions under the bar bar. That configuration would work on the other sizes but is not really necessary with all the stack overlap between sizes.

I thought it might not work for the extensions, but thought it might still work for the pads.

I really appreciate you making those stack changes for the small sizes as us little guys run into pad stack comprises, or at least I have in the past.
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Re: Premier Tactical [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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Lai:

You can use the Tilt Aero-Spacer under the elbow cups in any configuration.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I was just going through the old posts and wanted to let you know that we have added an aero spacer tilt to the package. Thank you for in-put. Everything we did on this bike was based on suggestions from athletes and forum contributors.

I also added an under-mount for the extensions so I could get the stack a bit lower on the Small (-35 mm).

Again, thanks for your comments and in-put.

Dan

Any pics of the aero tilt spacers yet?

Lack of tilt was the one thing holding me back, but I'm 90% sure this will be my next bike now.
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