Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
After seeing these designs, I'd really consider hiring a pro to design the paint on this bike.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dhr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Like I asked before, what is a nice paint job, in your opinion?

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Staer wrote:
Like I asked before, what is a nice paint job, in your opinion?

Do you think everyone hangs on every post of yours, or something?

If you asked it before, it was just as absurd the last time. How can anyone speak logically with a person who doesn't understand preferences, especially as it relates to aesthetics, art & design? You truly can't look at two bikes and determine which you prefer? You don't think certain things look "cheap" compared to others?

Which one of those designs was yours?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dhr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lol whoah. Take it down a notch.

I was simply trying to state that I asked the question of someone else before. Not being impatient.

I do understand preference, that is why I am asking you what you like. What bike out there do you like? What is a good paint job in your opinion then? Provide images and links. This is how you arrive a better solution. Just throwing around "it looks cheap" and "I don't like it" doesn't do much, especially in the context of a crowd sourced design.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Staer - this was actually the next phase of our effort and I appreciate you bringing out the next topic.

The Tactical was made as a result of input from Slowtwitch members, contributors and those that know the business best - athletes. Paint and decals will be no different. It was, in many cases "professionals" that brought $6000.00 frame sets, bad geometry and 5'3'' athletes on 700C bikes to the market .... I'll stick with athletes and forum members for in-put.

We appreciate those that took time to offer up their ideas and put forth a design as well as those that made positive and negative comments. It has given us a lot of ideas. The responses to each design has been varied from wonderful - to cheap.... and that's ok.

If someone has a particular bike or brand that they think has a great paint and decal job - one that would be reasonable to accomplish in a production process - please send me a PM or an email dan.premierbike@gmail.com and those ideas will go into the calculus. Over the next few weeks we will be considering all the in-put.

Based on all the input here, messages to me and on our Facebook page - three designs got the most positive reviews. I will decide on a winner and award the contest prize.

Great food for thought - thank you.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 21, 17 8:34
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Staer wrote:
Lol whoah. Take it down a notch.

I was simply trying to state that I asked the question of someone else before. Not being impatient.

I do understand preference, that is why I am asking you what you like. What bike out there do you like? What is a good paint job in your opinion then? Provide images and links. This is how you arrive a better solution. Just throwing around "it looks cheap" and "I don't like it" doesn't do much, especially in the context of a crowd sourced design.

Which is, of course, why I did neither. I suggested he hire a professional.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dhr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Right, I understand that.

I've just read comments like yours before on a number of other brands and bikes also (see the current poll!), and have always wondered what those people actually do like. I think it would be helpful (also for my own interest) to point to what you consider a good design.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Staer wrote:
I've just read comments like yours before on a number of other brands and bikes also (see the current poll!), and have always wondered what those people actually do like. I think it would be helpful (also for my own interest) to point to what you consider a good design.

I know you're not asking me, but I agree that they are all pretty terrible. I like pretty much every design on the market better than the current one from Premier, and the vast majority better than the proposed ones. Though the contest options are a bit better, they are still worst in class aesthetically in my opinion. If I had to guess why, I think it's the logo. The logo is poorly wrought in all of those designs, and it is the single most important aspect of the design.

It's much harder for me to think of designs I don't like than of designs I do, because I like almost everything from the big brands. I especially love Felt's modern designs:






I love the simplicity and elegance of my 3T Exploro and of this Canyon:



What I don't like is any of these. I don't like Avenger.



I don't like the "Thrust".


These to me scream "China carbon". I don't know why. But I know it when I see it. Want more examples? Go to Aliexpress.com and search "TT bike". This is where you'd expect to see the Premier Bike design -- right in with this company, and not with Felt or Canyon or anything else.

Here's a thought. Can someone literally rip off Canyon's font/logo and make it say Premier? Let's look at that mock up then go from there, because my sense is that the cheapness of these designs stems from the logo. If we can fix that aspect first, I think it would go a long way.

If I end up buying the Tactical down the line, I'll be making a design myself and painting over any one of these. Unfortunately that virtually eliminates the economic advantage of the frame, bringing it more into line with Speed Concept pricing and perhaps even more expensive than the Canyon. Which is a shame. Price excepted, the only material reason I have left to choose the Tactical over the Canyon (for me) is the base bar, which is perhaps the thing I love most about the Tactical.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for that.

I agree with you, the logo can definitely break the design. Both the Canyon and Felt designs are super basic and simple, really not much going on at all - a couple little flashes of colour, or blocked off frame parts in gloss/matte black.

I think Premier needs a rebrand effort first and foremost. Both logo and overall graphic/type treatment. Then the paint job will come more naturally and can be an extension of the brand elements.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kileyay wrote:
Staer wrote:
I've just read comments like yours before on a number of other brands and bikes also (see the current poll!), and have always wondered what those people actually do like. I think it would be helpful (also for my own interest) to point to what you consider a good design.


I know you're not asking me, but I agree that they are all pretty terrible. I like pretty much every design on the market better than the current one from Premier, and the vast majority better than the proposed ones. Though the contest options are a bit better, they are still worst in class aesthetically in my opinion. If I had to guess why, I think it's the logo. The logo is poorly wrought in all of those designs, and it is the single most important aspect of the design.

It's much harder for me to think of designs I don't like than of designs I do, because I like almost everything from the big brands. I especially love Felt's modern designs:






I love the simplicity and elegance of my 3T Exploro and of this Canyon:



What I don't like is any of these. I don't like Avenger.



I don't like the "Thrust".


These to me scream "China carbon". I don't know why. But I know it when I see it. Want more examples? Go to Aliexpress.com and search "TT bike". This is where you'd expect to see the Premier Bike design -- right in with this company, and not with Felt or Canyon or anything else.

Here's a thought. Can someone literally rip off Canyon's font/logo and make it say Premier? Let's look at that mock up then go from there, because my sense is that the cheapness of these designs stems from the logo. If we can fix that aspect first, I think it would go a long way.

If I end up buying the Tactical down the line, I'll be making a design myself and painting over any one of these. Unfortunately that virtually eliminates the economic advantage of the frame, bringing it more into line with Speed Concept pricing and perhaps even more expensive than the Canyon. Which is a shame. Price excepted, the only material reason I have left to choose the Tactical over the Canyon (for me) is the base bar, which is perhaps the thing I love most about the Tactical.

This.

I understand you want to have forum input and all, but why not hire a graphic designer and have them come up with some designs, then let ST (or whoever) choose which one they like best?

Also, the fact that the are crap resolution makes them look very thrown together and unprofessional. A nice rendered design would probably make each of these look 100x better than they currently do.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now I want a "Thrust" bike.


--Chris
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got the chance to see one of these in person yesterday at a local race. It looks WAY better live then in pictures. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I was one of those who said... great value, great build, but not sure of the looks... after seeing it in person I would certainly consider if I was in the market. Any improvements, updates to the paint schemes can only help with first impressions.

Spoke to the bike's owner (well known guy to us NJ athletes) and he went on about the bike and Dan. He also rode to an AG win so the color scheme did appear to hold him back :-)
Last edited by: DDMike: May 22, 17 12:18
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [DDMike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice to know the bikes are starting to show up.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fixed Now - sorry for any inconvenience!

Our website developed a glitch yesterday - causing the front page picture to open very slowly. The rest of the site is opening normally. That picture and header is taking about 30 seconds. I have our people working on fixing it.

Thank you for your patience.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 26, 17 12:01
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tactical Extension Tube Option Update - A week or so ago I posted a design prototype of new hardware (first image) that would allow for any round extension tube to seamlessly work on our Tactical.

That design would require the DI-2 wires to extend out the back of the tubes (like many bikes). It was just too messy - so I continued to work through some options.

Our final piece that will be available in 30-40 days are shown in the (2nd ,3rd and 4th) images. I have added a hole that extends to the inner round clamping force section. This will allow an option to run the wires through the extensions and out the side at the clamping junction and down through our spacers - into the base bar. In this option you can still keep the Tactical wire/cable free for a better aero profile.

You would still have the option to run the wire out the back if you did not want to add a 5.1 mm hole in the extension to accommodate the DI-2 wire connector passage.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [DDMike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I saw the bike in person last weekend at a race. Dan was there presenting the bike to people who showed interest. I understand some of the comments about the aesthetics on this thread, but you really have to see it in person to judge it. This is not just a cheap frame with nice (expensive) components. It is really well designed. I see so many bike advertisements that just seem to be finding problems that do not exist and then allegedly solving them, that it was really refreshing to speak to the actual designer and have him explain what he did. If I had not just purchased a bike this winter, I would be Premier's next customer.

I may not be fast, but once I get going, it is hard to stop me...
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [BigPat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
BigPat wrote:
I saw the bike in person last weekend at a race. Dan was there presenting the bike to people who showed interest. I understand some of the comments about the aesthetics on this thread, but you really have to see it in person to judge it. This is not just a cheap frame with nice (expensive) components. It is really well designed. I see so many bike advertisements that just seem to be finding problems that do not exist and then allegedly solving them, that it was really refreshing to speak to the actual designer and have him explain what he did. If I had not just purchased a bike this winter, I would be Premier's next customer.

Yeah this seems to be the consensus among those of us who have had some time seeing and understanding the bike. It's a very impressive bike.

I also think it's cool how Dan has heard feedback about extensions and in a matter of six months he is going to deliver a really well thought out solution. The time to market is great and seems he is thinking through all of the finer points in the design.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [BigPat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Really pumped to get mine. Though I have only read and saw the Tactical in print and pictures I really studied every aspect of this bike. I am a time trail bike lover and his design is so well executed. I think he will do amazingly well.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The bike looks great. I'm confident stack and reach aren't as big a deal as has been made.

Here are the issues for me (and most likely a lot of people) - Customizability and Livability.

Premier forget there is an "I" in tri. People what to customize: this isn't crit racing this is triathlon - e.g. the struggle is internal. This means Identity and personal expression play a larger role in it.

Once you purchase this bike you've got a lot of work to do. You have to get a saddle, you have to figure out those wheels, you have to decide if that crank length is right for your fit. So, you're immediately in the buy/sell aftermarket game.

And then once you do that you're in Speed Concept land - what? What I mean is you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust. I work in a shop and when the mechanics groan seeing a SC walk in you know it's a challenging bike to live with and p.s., I've owned a SC and it was not awesome to live with. Yes the bike is set and forget but people never ever do this - like, ever.

So, the bike sort of dooms you to itself - great if that's all you want. But, I'm guessing as soon as the next aero commercial comes around you'll want to upgrade without riding up grades.
Last edited by: PennBen: Jun 11, 17 7:16
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
are there any real life photos of the PT on ST? i haven't seen.

i'm in the process of deciding if i want to get in a 700cc PT this year, or wait for a 650cc next year.

decisions, decisions. i'm not 100% sure my fit on a 650cc is going to outweigh the fact i can run supersonics and latex tubes on the 700cc frame.

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [PennBen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PenBen - I notice you just joined the forum 3 months ago; its good to get opinions from new contributors as well as established contributors - stack and reach are the last thing an athlete needs to worry about with the Tactical. In fact, there is massive adjustability in the bike. Extension adjustment length, pad position forward and backward as well as width and stack adjustment (0-60 mm) can all be done independently. I have never seen another bike that has this much flexibility. Most of that can be done without de-cabling the bike in about 5 minutes.

As for customizing the bike - we spent time so riders don't end up with a bin of parts trying to "hope" what works. But, people like options - that is why we developed the extension fixture that will allow for any round extension tube on the market. A tilt spacers allowing for further adjustability. Rear storage on or off. Rear hydration on or off. 1 X compatable right from the start (not an afterthought). Any hydration method you like. Bosses on the top tube, Down tube and seat tube.

The bike accommodates tires from 19 mm - 28 mm.

Our center pull brakes work and can be easily adjusted with an allen wrench while mounted in-place and covers on.

Any wheels on the market fit the bike without chain-stay rub.

We specified the bike with the most current thinking on crank arm length 165 Sm and Medium and 170 Lg) however that crank and arm lengths can be swapped in 10 minutes.

So - that leaves us with a saddle - and on that point we agree. By design we put an inexpensive saddle on the bike. It is the most personal item for an athlete and we expect you will swap it out - that is why we don't waste a lot of money on that piece.

The bike is super fast. Tip of the spear fast compared to every bike its been tested against.

If you want to purchase the bike you compared the Tactical to (and thank you for putting us in good company) with a disk wheel, front 88 both with Continental GP 4000 II tires, excellent power meter, Hard Travel Case, optimized chain, bike fit allowance, Sponsored Athlete Program and personal service ...... The Tactical is the bike and, at about 1/2 the price.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jun 11, 17 8:03
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [PennBen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PennBen wrote:
Once you purchase this bike you've got a lot of work to do. You have to get a saddle, you have to figure out those wheels, you have to decide if that crank length is right for your fit. So, you're immediately in the buy/sell aftermarket game.

How is this any different than pretty much every other bike on the market?

PennBen wrote:
And then once you do that you're in Speed Concept land - what? What I mean is you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust. I work in a shop and when the mechanics groan seeing a SC walk in you know it's a challenging bike to live with and p.s., I've owned a SC and it was not awesome to live with. Yes the bike is set and forget but people never ever do this - like, ever.

Curious, other than both bikes having being hidden by a fairing, what makes you think they'll be similar to a speed concepts?

PennBen wrote:
So, the bike sort of dooms you to itself - great if that's all you want. But, I'm guessing as soon as the next aero commercial comes around you'll want to upgrade without riding up grades.

Again, how is this different than any other bike on the market?

Matt
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I forgot to add that Dan K stood on the approach to T2 and cheered everyone while also warning riders about a sharp turn ahead. Obviously, he is committed to the sport and the athletes.

I may not be fast, but once I get going, it is hard to stop me...
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cubic centimeters?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [PennBen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PennBen wrote:
you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust.

You don't know what you're talking about. There's enough to criticize about the brakes on this bike but the difficulty of adjustment is not one of them. They are some of the easier brakes to adjust on the market -- pop off fairing, and tweak with a single Allen key.

If you have hopes and dreams for personalization, you can buy the frameset. Speed Concept frameset = $4500 and Tactical = $3k
Quote Reply

Prev Next