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Premier Tactical
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I think this thing looks awesome. Long and low with good fit options, an intelligent minimal design much like Canyon/Trek's upper offerings, and an extremely good stock package for the price. I hope people buy this thing, because I would love to see this succeed.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...roletariat_6130.html









'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
Last edited by: georged: Dec 1, 16 17:23
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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What a deal....you get the race wheels, DI2, hard shell travel case, pioneer power meter....not to mention a pretty cool bike for all of $5500. Frodo could break 7:35 at Roth on this package.


From their website:

Note: Equipment with Shimano Ultegra DI2, Rear Storage, Hard Travel Case, front and rear center pull brakes, fully adjustable cockpit, race tires, Optimized race chain, Pioneer Powermeter, 88 mm Front Carbon Clincher Wheel and Full Carbon Clincher Disk Wheels are included with bike purchase! Five (5) year bike warranty.
Nice work Dennis. Hope it all goes smoothly on the business front.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Here's my hot take:

Pros:
-Looks good
-Probably pretty aero
-Brakes look well thought out
-Smart flat storage integration
-Long low geometry
-The ability to adjust the fork is pretty trick. One other manufacturer has done this but I can't immediately remember who.
-I LOVE the idea of not having to remove the stem/base bar for travel. Will probably buy the case tbh.
-Amazing value. Crazy value really.

Cons:
-Open-mold rims with no aero data at this time
-For "unknown" rims, I would have much preferred aluminum/carbon hybrids. I'd trust those. I flat out won't ride open-mold carbon rims
-Horizontal dropouts -_-
-No tilt adjustment on the basebar

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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georged wrote:
I think this thing looks awesome. Long and low with good fit options, an intelligent minimal design much like Canyon/Trek's upper offerings, and an extremely good stock package for the price. I hope people buy this thing, because I would love to see this succeed.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...roletariat_6130.html










Bike looks awesome. They need to work on their searchability on the web. (I think that means bribing google). Took me a while to find their website.

Edit: and I still havent.. apparently there is a different "premier cycles" out there.
Last edited by: davejustdave: Dec 1, 16 18:48
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Re: Premier Tactical [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.PremierHolding.org

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the comments.

Just one point on the wheels.

When I told Dan they were open mold - I may have been a bit too non-specific. I just meant that PremierBike did not have anything to do with the design etc.. We went with one of the largest private label manufacturers around, they have been in business since 2010 and make thousands of wheels each year under many labels; we specified the hubs and spokes and they are making ours right along the same production line as many brands you see every day.

These are very high quality wheels with a two year warranty. I just did not want anyone to think we were trying to claim something that was not accurate.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
www.PremierHolding.org

Thanks for that!


Googling "tactical bike" brought up some odd stuff. Like bikes with knives on them.
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Long low geometry


Proportionally, but there's nothing low about a min stack of 565 for the product line as a whole. In fact I can't think of any bike that has a min stack that high in its smallest size.

The open mold wheels are also a non starter for me. The entire line of defense from these component profiteers about the quality of their factories and the volume of products per annum is getting old. It doesn't mean anything. My guess is the wheels in general and the brake tracks in particular are trash at best and dangerous at worst, like others of this ilk.

But who cares? At this price point, might as well keep them to serve as a back up during the next major Zipp recall. Assuming this bike doesn't turn out to just completely suck -- which isn't an assumption any of us can or should make at this point -- there isn't much competition on price value in the market today, even among the Alibaba contingent.

I love the clean design aesthetic, but I don't understand not having some sort of integrated hydration / nutrition solution -- at least some bosses on the stem or a bridge between the pads. And no trash can? No ham sandwich compartment?

Aside from all that, it's nice to see another rim brake upstart in this space to take on the lying, manipulative companies who are trying to sell us slow bikes with hub disc braking. The more fresh rim brake bikes in circulation, the better. I wish this guy luck. Count me in for one of his chains.
Last edited by: PubliusValerius: Dec 1, 16 20:11
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Re: Premier Tactical [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
Long low geometry


Proportionally, but there's nothing low about a min stack of 565 for the product line as a whole. In fact I can't think of any bike that has a min stack that high in its smallest size.

The open mold wheels are also a non starter for me. The entire line of defense from these component profiteers about the quality of their factories and the volume of products per annum is getting old. It doesn't mean anything. My guess is the wheels in general and the brake tracks in particular are trash at best and dangerous at worst, like others of this ilk.

But who cares? At this price point, might as well keep them to serve as a back up during the next major Zipp recall. Assuming this bike doesn't turn out to just completely suck -- which isn't an assumption any of us can or should make at this point -- there isn't much competition on price value in the market today, even among the Alibaba contingent.

I love the clean design aesthetic, but I don't understand not having some sort of integrated hydration / nutrition solution -- at least some bosses on the stem or a bridge between the pads. And no trash can? No ham sandwich compartment?

Aside from all that, it's nice to see another rim brake upstart in this space to take on the lying, manipulative companies who are trying to sell us slow bikes with hub disc braking. The more fresh rim brake bikes in circulation, the better. I wish this guy luck. Count me in for one of his chains.


I bet your life is awesome and you have many fulfilling relationships.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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At last a new bike I can stomach the sight of! I'm excited by the design but would hold off for the frameset option, because..

One leg power metering as stock. I'd rather have the money off the price and put it towards a crank, hub or dual-sided system. I don't know anything about this Pioneer meter.. can another module be added to the opposite side?

Deep wheels included as stock. I would think know many potential customers will already have race day wheels. No doubt a lot of folk will appreciate having these though, just not me.

No extension tilt as above. Could mitigate this if they accept standard extensions so I can fit J bend in reverse but it is a bit of a bodge for me on a new bike.

Not maybe as long and low as Dan is making out. I'm an Alien officially but only just scrape onto the Small for reach, Medium has too much stack for me. Shame there isn't any info about STA although it looks pretty steep with the offset seat post, but can't tell for sure. But pad x/y isn't the full story if you can't put your arse in the right place, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

But I really like a lot of the design concepts and as I say I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a frameset option.. but I'd probably want my own bars on there.

Good luck Dan, this is way above the P5X, Omni and Diamondhog in my reckoning.
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Here's my hot take:

Pros:
-Looks good
-Probably pretty aero
-Brakes look well thought out
-Smart flat storage integration
-Long low geometry
-The ability to adjust the fork is pretty trick. One other manufacturer has done this but I can't immediately remember who.
-I LOVE the idea of not having to remove the stem/base bar for travel. Will probably buy the case tbh.
-Amazing value. Crazy value really.

Cons:
-Open-mold rims with no aero data at this time
-For "unknown" rims, I would have much preferred aluminum/carbon hybrids. I'd trust those. I flat out won't ride open-mold carbon rims
-Horizontal dropouts -_-
-No tilt adjustment on the basebar
Another manufacturer who's had adjustable rake on some of their bikes for years is Canyon. I think it was introduced on their previous generation Aeroad and I think it's on their current Aeroad and Speedmax bikes.

Looks like a good bike and a very good price but I agree with you on the cons, especially the lack of ability to tilt the basebar/extensions.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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It should have been tested against a Felt IA with an integrated front brake: apples-to-apples. Nice machine though.

25 years since it all began
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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
One leg power metering as stock. I'd rather have the money off the price and put it towards a crank, hub or dual-sided system. I don't know anything about this Pioneer meter.. can another module be added to the opposite side?



Yup. You can upgrade from single to Dual.

http://www.clevertraining.com/...er-meter-upgrade-kit
Last edited by: LAI: Dec 2, 16 3:20
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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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knighty76 wrote:
At last a new bike I can stomach the sight of! I'm excited by the design but would hold off for the frameset option, because..

One leg power metering as stock. I'd rather have the money off the price and put it towards a crank, hub or dual-sided system. I don't know anything about this Pioneer meter.. can another module be added to the opposite side?

Deep wheels included as stock. I would think know many potential customers will already have race day wheels. No doubt a lot of folk will appreciate having these though, just not me.

No extension tilt as above. Could mitigate this if they accept standard extensions so I can fit J bend in reverse but it is a bit of a bodge for me on a new bike.

Not maybe as long and low as Dan is making out. I'm an Alien officially but only just scrape onto the Small for reach, Medium has too much stack for me. Shame there isn't any info about STA although it looks pretty steep with the offset seat post, but can't tell for sure. But pad x/y isn't the full story if you can't put your arse in the right place, so I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

But I really like a lot of the design concepts and as I say I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a frameset option.. but I'd probably want my own bars on there.

Good luck Dan, this is way above the P5X, Omni and Diamondhog in my reckoning.

You can upgrade the Pioneer to dual easy enough and it's a pretty solid power meter too IMO.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
You can upgrade the Pioneer to dual easy enough and it's a pretty solid power meter too IMO.

That makes it much more attractive, thanks.
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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Can you enlighten me as to what would be the problem with just a one-leg power meter?

Can't you get reasonable power readings from just the one-side? I'm sure you get more accuracy with a dual, but can the single give data sufficient for the purpose of training with reasonably reliable power readings?

Not trolling, just don't know and looking for info....

Thanks
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Re: Premier Tactical [lanceman] [ In reply to ]
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lanceman wrote:
Can you enlighten me as to what would be the problem with just a one-leg power meter?

Can't you get reasonable power readings from just the one-side? I'm sure you get more accuracy with a dual, but can the single give data sufficient for the purpose of training with reasonably reliable power readings?

Not trolling, just don't know and looking for info....

Thanks

You'd be surprised just how much an individual's L/R power balance can shift from day to day. Combined with the power meter's own variation, it's enough to ruin the notion of training/pacing with power.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Great simplicity in terms of options, which I'm sure is part of the low price, but it would be nice to see an even more basic version, e.g., non-DI2 / no power / no wheels. $5500 is still a high price for a bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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I agree but also assume there are incremental profit margins built into each component so great overall price for the consumer but parting it down further would not save the consumer as much as you would think-much the way a bike shop handles frames v. Complete builds
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Re: Premier Tactical [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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You obviously aren't from the northeast and can't fully appreciate Pubes' cantankerous attitude. He is certainly predictable in his approach but very "Philly"
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Re: Premier Tactical [davejustdave] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah not really excited about this one, but I wish the owner luck, at least he's trying.

My take is:
1. Somewhat generic frame from Taiwan. I realize its not the exact same, but looks a lot like the dengfu frames that companies like 'Squad' use, that can be bought online with generic paint for 1k, with someone elses name slapped on it. Probably doesn't matter to some, but this frame will have pretty miserable resale value.
2. Generic wheels that are very heavy ,again, low resale value too.
3. Yeah, neat that a powermeter is on there, but that can be bought for $500.
4. Case, nice, also $300-$500.
5. Ultegra Di2, yes nice, but again, its really not that pricey these days to buy ultegra di2 shifters and derailleurs.

I'm not really seeing the $5500 US price tag as some amazing value. Just my .02, nothing personal.
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Dec 2, 16 5:53
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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Ultimately though, I think the exchange rate, shipping cost and import fees will deter you from buying this. The Tri Rig stuff is looking pretty steep right now.

25 years since it all began
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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George change the title of the thread to New Aero Affordable Superbike: Premier Tactical

At this point no one knows what Premier is and no one knows what Tactical is. If I was Dennis, I'd just have called the bike the name of the company. Too much branding confusion for an unknown entity.
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Re: Premier Tactical [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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deh20 wrote:
Great simplicity in terms of options, which I'm sure is part of the low price, but it would be nice to see an even more basic version, e.g., non-DI2 / no power / no wheels. $5500 is still a high price for a bike.

I was wondering about a mechanical version Ultegra kit, no power no race wheels, no travel box. If you own all these things, then you may not need them.

Also what is the BBtype? Is it BB30?
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Re: Premier Tactical [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you - I think :-)

There are bosses on the top tube for a bento box and the normal hydration bosses on the downtube and seat tube.

I have two additional storage solutions that we tested in the tunnel. If you go to the website and click down to the wind tunnel result - you can see the results of the test. I was a bit surprised that the two modular storage compartments tested did not cost much drag. We include some pictures. You can also see that data in Dan's article.

We also tested with Profile Design HC35. I have not published that yet because the wind tunnel was (no rider) so we only did it at LSWT to see how an athletes arms effect the numbers. We are doing Velodrome testing December 7th and those numbers should be interesting. The HC35 tested best in a CFD simulation but we really did not do a good job adding a riders arms in that simulation.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you.

STA max is a hair over 82 if you max it out - plenty of set back.

You can add the drive side meter for dual numbers.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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I have been asked to work up a frame price and I am working on it now.

A frame set price will include: Frame, Fork, Stem, Stem Cover, Cockpit, Rear Storage, BB Cover, Front and Rear Brakes, Seat Post and all the related hardware.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Shimano SM-BB72-41B Press Fit

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
Yeah not really excited about this one, but I wish the owner luck, at least he's trying.

My take is:
1. Somewhat generic frame from Taiwan. I realize its not the exact same, but looks a lot like the dengfu frames that companies like 'Squad' use, that can be bought online with generic paint for 1k, with someone elses name slapped on it. Probably doesn't matter to some, but this frame will have pretty miserable resale value.
2. Generic wheels that are very heavy ,again, low resale value too.
3. Yeah, neat that a powermeter is on there, but that can be bought for $500.
4. Case, nice, also $300-$500.
5. Ultegra Di2, yes nice, but again, its really not that pricey these days to buy ultegra di2 shifters and derailleurs.

I'm not really seeing the $5500 US price tag as some amazing value. Just my .02, nothing personal.

Probably the wheels will not have too high resale value, but everything I've seen indicates that this is definitely not a generic Taiwan frame and with a lead article on ST and the interest from these threads I think the resale will be reasonable; of course you'll take a hit as with anything but shouldn't be the giveaway that an open mold frame would command.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
When I told Dan they were open mold - I may have been a bit too non-specific. I just meant that PremierBike did not have anything to do with the design etc.. We went with one of the largest private label manufacturers around, they have been in business since 2010 and make thousands of wheels each year under many labels; we specified the hubs and spokes and they are making ours right along the same production line as many brands you see every day.

These are very high quality wheels with a two year warranty. I just did not want anyone to think we were trying to claim something that was not accurate.

Sounds like you're more an engineering guy than a marketing guy! (That's a compliment, by the way).

I'd suggest a different URL for your site. "Premierholding" sounds like some sort of dubious financial services company. Something simple. Looks like premiertribike or premier-bike are available, among others. You could still have the existing URL point to the site as well so existing links don't break. Website mostly just needs some tweaking, fix typos, higher res PDFs, complete list of specs.

Good luck with your venture!
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Re: Premier Tactical [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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"Proportionally, but there's nothing low about a min stack of 565 for the product line as a whole"

that's because you're only looking at the frame geometry. if you look at the stem and aerobar geometry, that more than offsets the frame geometry. only the real long/low outliers can't ride this bike.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Am I correct in thinking that you're saying that other bikes claim low numbers but that is only with the frame and once the bar and stem is included the stack increase dramatically?

And it looks like 563 is the low number. ;)
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Re: Premier Tactical [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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i'm saying that the height of the pads in relation to the length is a combo of frame geometry, stem geometry, and aerobar geometry.

for example, a tririg alpha x aerobar has a pad height as low as about 25mm above the centerline of the pursuit bar, but the integrated stem options are quite long. the bar itself is a very long/low bar. so that bar on a midrange geometry bike makes the bike a rather long/low bike.

a typical profile design aerobar has pads about 60mm above the centerline of the pursuit bar. that means a tall bike (for its length) like the shiv is not taller than midrange bikes (like the IA, speed concept, P series cervelos) by as much as the profile bar is taller than the tririg. if you were to put a tririg alpha x on a shiv, assuming it would go on there, that's an altogether longer/lower bike than, say, a cervelo p5.

now, we have had bikes in the past that just don't have any small sizing. or any large sizing. when the cannondale slice rs (may it rest in peace) was introduced, it really didn't have large sizes. they were called large. they had an M, an L, maybe an XL (i don't remember). but the largest size was really kind of a medium in other bikes.

when you point to the lowest pad height on the tactical, i'm not saying that's especially low. rather, it's low compared to its length. still, it's pretty low. a size small in a speed concept can go as low as 555mm, the tactical's small is 565mm. yes, you can get a smaller pad height in a speed concept, because an XS frame is made. there are more speed concept frame sizes.

but the 565mm compared to the length makes this a bike that would work pretty well for people who need a bike with length compared to the height.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice bike. I'd totally buy this one if I could afford it.
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
You obviously aren't from the northeast and can't fully appreciate Pubes' cantankerous attitude. He is certainly predictable in his approach but very "Philly"

Just because it's regional doesn't mean it is not tiresome.
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Re: Premier Tactical [JSully] [ In reply to ]
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It is not tiresome. Someone needs to put some criticisms out there. He does it in a abrasive way you could say but I like it. His points are almost always valid whether you agree or not. Most bad decisions in this world could have been avoided if you had a critic tell you straight up and not sugarcoat it that its a bad idea. You cannot surround yourself with yes men and end up with successful products. He keeps its real which is nice. Its good to have someone step out of flock of sheep and throw a little thought into what can be better. To me he seems to never settle for good enough and that is a quality that is missing in todays world.
Last edited by: mknight84: Dec 2, 16 8:51
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Re: Premier Tactical [mknight84] [ In reply to ]
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I really don’t mind those comments at all. It gives me a chance to explain our product and our company.

To that end - I thought I should provide an overview.

We started the bike development work in March 2014. The work prior to that was technical, competitive and market research. At first it was just me, then 3 of us then 5 people together working on the project. We were working on everything; a highly motivated team and we had a clear target; to make the best triathlon bike in the world and a bike people could afford; the bike that athletes were asking for.

If I had not built a positive reputation over the past 20 years; manufacturing technical products in Taiwan - this bike would not have been possible. This is a very consolidated industry on the manufacturing side. There are no mediocre factories in Taiwan today. PremierBikes’ Tactical is made at the same factory in Taiwan - producing top-of-the-line bikes, which readers here discuss, praise and admire on Slowtwitch everyday. The quality companies just don’t need to work with unproven entities.

Shimano is Shimano – we spec DI2 as standard equipment. We include the best Continental tires and tubes - standard. Our race wheels (wide rear CC disk and front 24 cm deep carbon clincher include high quality spokes and hubs) they are standard equipment and are made for us; just like they are made for the best companies that are talked about and sell to contributors here on Slowtwitch. Our components are all top of the line – well except for the $10 seat.

We have a staff in Taiwan that check on things everyday. But its’ not a question of manufacturing excellence, quality control, the quality of the carbon fiber or the lay-up – that is fairly fixed. If we at PremierBike have made a manufacturing “partner error” then the top companies in the industry have made the same partnering errors.

Yes – PremierBike did all the visual design work, geometry, set the specifications and did the up front CAD design, the CFD and the FEA work. We also did the post manufacturing aero confirmation work. But lets be clear – its’ our Taiwan manufacturing partners - that are exposed too and develop the advancements, the lay-up, new techniques and lessons learned from working with marketing companies around the world. The best manufacturing factories have incrementally carried forward, refined and enhanced a lot of the gains that athletes enjoy today and it has been very important for PremierBike to have learned and gained from their advancements. Very few companies can honestly claim these gains without the factory expertise.

We didn’t have legacy costs and systems to deal with - we could go with absolute best practices, methods and materials. We started without multi layer distribution, huge executive staffs and bloated marketing programs – these costs - which make up a huge part of the price of products – are passed on to athletes and it’s gotten out of control. Their bloat and structures are an advantage to us.

Competition is always nice. It shows you the best of what you can get, but to determine who is best is very subjective. I think with our bike design, the quality manufacturing, standard components, ease of travel, day- to-day usability and value – IMO our bike is the best package. It’s the bike many athletes have been asking for.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I have been asked to work up a frame price and I am working on it now.

A frame set price will include: Frame, Fork, Stem, Stem Cover, Cockpit, Rear Storage, BB Cover, Front and Rear Brakes, Seat Post and all the related hardware.

I could potentially fall into this category some day in the future. Being that I would probably already have wheels, power meter and potentially prefer SRAM e-tap.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider - I posted The Frame Only price on the website a few minutes ago.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Dan- Thanks for covering the bike on the home page, otherwise I would not have known about it. Very interesting!

One thing I think that is very unique and interesting is the "Sponsor Program". As it is now, it doesn't work for my "business plan" as an athlete, but I think it is great for a lot of athletes out there. Not sure if you ever edit your articles, but might be worth annotating in there.

For those that haven't stumbled across it yet, you can find full details here: http://www.premierholding.org/...ored-athlete-program

Our Program is a participation program and has no bearing on finish position.

PremierBike will fund a “Sponsored Athlete Pool” in an amount equal to two (2%) of the net sales of “TACTICAL” bikes during each Sponsored Athlete Program Period for distribution to Sponsored Athlete(s).


-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Coached By: Scott DeFilippis
Team RWB Ambassador | Deals & Discounts from Sponsors
Supported by: Clever Training| Kiwami Tri | Spinlister| Precision Hydration | ISM| Cervelo | CeramicSpeed
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Re: Premier Tactical [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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I had a chance to work on some of the website links, added a few videos and increased the clarity on the geometry and assembly chart. Thank you for the suggestions.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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The title in the browser tab is your email address! Should be company name (and page name).

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I like.
I really want to hear from triathletes that have rode this bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I rode this bike pretty hard for the first time yesterday. It was on the track doing some aero testing so it wasn't a true real world situation but I still got some quality time on the bike and played with a few more things.

I really like the seat clamp. I know this is minor but for those of us who work on bikes often (fitters and wrenches) saddle clamps can be a horror. This one is straight forward, logical, easy to use and allows for a wide range of seat angles.

To travel with the bike and to fit it into it's own bike case - the aerobars extensions are the only part of the handle bar that has to be moved. The unbolting of those is easy and quick. It's a joy.

During the test I was alternating from my Felt IA 10 to the Tactical and since the seat height, pad stack and pad reach were the same between both bikes (as were saddle, pedals and wheels) I was able to feel the similarities between the bikes. There was no difference. Both felt solid and stiff and both gave the same feeling of power transfer. I started adding this little test during the cool down lap of every trail where I'd go up high on the track in the corner and then drop down to the flats in apron and both bikes felt the same in that rather rough transition.

As a fitter I like this bike 'cuase it can work for so many people. As a coach I like this bike because it is essentially a $10,000 super bike for $5,500 and it has a power meter on it as a standard feature. As an athlete I like this bike 'cause it comes with Ui2 and the ease with which is packs and travels.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm really looking forward to seeing a video of the case :) I travel with a Scicon Aerotech Evo case now but to be able to carry an extra wheel and not have to unbolt the basebar... I'd jump on that case. Heck, I might sell my Shiv and start traveling with my Speed Concept again :)

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am working on a video for the travel case now. I will post it as soon as it is completed.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Which bike was faster and what was the setup (i.e. any bottles, etc. on the bikes)?
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Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
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At the LSWT the PremierBike Tactical was faster in every configuration tested from 0-10 degrees of Yaw.

Yesterday we received preliminary results from the (rider-on) Velodrome testing that again confirmed PremierBike was faster.

When hydration was added - the bike was even faster yet.

We have authorized Jim Manton at ERO Sports, LLC to post a complete unedited report of all results, including raw data - at the same time he provides the report to us at PremierBike. We are looking forward to reading it.

The complete wind tunnel data (including raw data) has been published at http://www.Premierholding.org under the "Home Tab". The data is presented in both Grams and Cda.

Because the raw data "font" is very small, it's hard to read. I will be happy to email the information to anyone interested in viewing the details - please just PM me with an email address.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Are there any pictures showing the bottle setup? I'm interested to see which/if BTA works best/at all with the pad risers being spaced wider like on the Tactical
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
iamAERO - We modeled 5 different hydration set ups on the bike during development. Different types, different storage options, different positions and different manufacturers.

We designed our own hydration that "computer tested" really well but (mold costs made that design prohibative).

The best "computer results" for the Tactical was the Profile Design FC35 at all adjustments with 0-60 mm of "Stack" spacers on all three sizes.

That computer modeling proved to be correct from the numbers I have seen - for the PremierBike Tactical in the testing - yet to be published.

I was not present for the velodrome testing but I would think we will get pictures with the report.

Edit: FC 35 not HC35

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Dec 9, 16 8:01
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For the rider-on testing I was rolling with Profile's FC Hydration systems. This one here http://profile-design.com/...fc-hydration-system/

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When you switched the Premier from 2x to 1x, did you change the RD and/or install a n/w chainring?

For reference: http://www.premierholding.org/pages/quality-control

Also: those images need to be significantly bigger (or the ability to maximize them would be nice)
Last edited by: James Haycraft: Dec 13, 16 14:05
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Re: Premier Tactical [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No - we just removed the front Mech and small chainring. The test was more to satisfy my curiosity.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now that I've seen the track numbers, I'm really confused. How on earth is your CdA that high? Those are penny-farthing with a parachute numbers. Surely there must be something else going on with them.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would have to defer to Jim on that. I was not present at the Velodrome testing.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grill wrote:
Now that I've seen the track numbers, I'm really confused. How on earth is your CdA that high? Those are penny-farthing with a parachute numbers. Surely there must be something else going on with them.

Yea, a .3 is disastrous.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grill, you've seen a lot of results from Ero's tests have ya? For a comparison I just pulled the quickest available comp on the web. Here's DC Rainmaker a number of .2935 and me at .2934. Now DC was on a P3 not a penny farthing and



And here's the page from the Ero report with me on the Tactical
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nope but I'm intimately familiar with Alphamantis testing and those numbers just don't gel. That's why I'm asking if there's something special or unique about ERO's protocol. If you used that CdA in a course model, you'd still be on the bike leg at Kona.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill you're going to need to direct your question to Jim Manton - Jim@EROsports here on the ST Forum. I'll be eager to hear his response.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well let's hope he shows!
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Re: Premier Tactical [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I was there with Ray and Jim when that test was done. Let's just say that as great a dude Ray is and as solid as his site and reviews are, he is just not much of a bike tech geek at all. Yeah he was on a P3 but the setup was rather pedestrian. And Ray is a BIG dude with big shoulders and is simply not designed for low CdA.

Here I am counting off laps for Ray. Not an awful position, but he's just a big dude with elbows rather far apart and he catches a lot of wind.



Here is a link to Ray's article if you'd like to read more.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grill: This was my first exposure to Velodrome testing. It sounds like you have a lot of experience so I have a question.

Jim reported the baseline average Cda for the PremierBike Tactical including rider was .2949 and the average for the Felt IA was .3079 for a difference of 0.013.

He also says that 0.013 equals 10.7 watt savings and would save a rider 3.86 minutes in a 180K bike leg.

So my question is if the Cda for the PremierBike Tactical was .237 and the Felt IA was .25 (same 0.013 difference) would the outcome still be the same?

Tactical would still be 10.7 watts savings and save the athlete 3.86 minutes in the bike leg?

Does the rider size change the outcome of the results if the goal of the test is to compare two bikes?

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wouldn't worry about your bike not being faster or not saving time over the IA10; it is and it will. Problem is that I've never seen such massive CdA numbers, which is why I'm assuming there's something in the protocol that's inflating them (could be as simple as the PM being used).
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I'm on a phone with not a lot of time. I'm not sure what the question is. The numbers are what they are. We're not fitting these test riders, they simply were test riders. If I were fitting Ian, his position would be vastly different and the CdA would be lower. For instance, at 250lbs, my personal CdA was in the area of .268, and I'll soon test it again to see what it is 50lbs lighter, and then adjust my positon since I'm now capable of going back to my original fit coordinates. I'm guessing my drag numbers, even at 200 lbs, will be much better than most triathletes. The protocols are the same for everyone, and though there's a lot more to the algorithm, it's basically power vs speed. Simple. They're the same protocols that helped me fit 6 elite UCI World Champions in 2016 alone.

These are the same protocols that allowed me to estimate Luke McKenzie's Kone split from 2013 to within 43 seconds of his actual time, and Heather Jackson to within 7 seconds of her last Wildflower split. From this year, I knew Amber Neben (who I fit, tested in the tunnel and tested again using the Alphamantis system on 3 consecutive days) should've been about 30 seconds ahead of Kristin Armstrong at US Nationals, and if I'm not mistaken she beat her by 28 seconds (and would have easily won
gold in Rio).

On this board, I constantly see people overestimating (or underestimating) their CdA. People are much higher than they want to believe. We see very few triathletes below .25 when they come in. Very few. They might leave lower, but they come in way high, and most need a decent bike fit far more than they need an aero test. Bike Fit, good bike fit, has been lost to marketing. It's now about selling product, not about optimal performance.

These tests were not about the riders position, they were about testing a product. Ian was excellent for that. His was very consistent, which is what we need. What the athletes CdA is, whether high or low, means nothing to me.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"he was on a P3 but the setup was rather pedestrian. And Ray is a BIG dude"

that position didn't look too pedestrian to me. looking at the pics from the article, that was a LOT of drop, and it looks like a pretty low position on the pic of him riding.

i think ian's saddle height on his tri bike is about 80cm. he's not a small guy. he's a rather broad shouldered surfer dude who took up tri. how big is ray? that p3 seemed like a fairly middlin' size, looking at the head tube.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jim@EROsports wrote:
On this board, I constantly see people overestimating (or underestimating) their CdA. People are much higher than they want to believe. We see very few triathletes below .25 when they come in. Very few.

The Premier obviously tests well, which was the point.

That being said, the above statement means nothing when testing the Premier Tactical.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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By "setup" I meant "equipment." For a guy who is as technologically focused as he is, that doesn't seem to carry over into super aero bike gear. No disc wheel, etc.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"doesn't seem to carry over into super aero bike gear. No disc wheel, etc."

ah. okay. i thought you were mostly referring to his position, and when looking at the pics of his bike (when he's off) and when he's riding, the position didn't look too pedestrian.

i think jim manton and james haycraft are saying basically the same thing (my take) which is that the absolute numbers mean nothing, only the relative numbers. it seems (i could be wrong) that the wind tunnel testing and the alphamantis testing agree, the tactical is a little faster than the IA when not in a yaw (tho on a velodrome i'm not quite sure what yaw is during turns).


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Dan,

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere. Please address the protocol for using your optimized race chain:

http://www.premierholding.org/...ucts/optimized-chain

Meaning, what do you recommend for optimal performance pre-race, race-day and post-race?

Scott
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for your question. When you receive the chain it is ready to go. Just install (the chain comes with a Connex quick link) and ride. It is a standard 118 link chain. If you need to shorten the chain, a ($7.00) chain tool will work just fine. Just adjust to your current chain length.

If you have not used the Connex link before (you will love it) just make sure its on in the right direct. If you hear a click noise in the small cog - its on backward. I put a short video, made by Connex, in the You Tube channel found on the bottom of the website main page.

Training Days - just ride the bike.

Race Day - if you have not used the chain prior to the race just ride the bike on the trainer for 5 minutes on the small cog. It will quickly get silky smooth.

The Wax/PTFE/MSO2 is really good at keeping the chain clean.

Post Race - If you're on roads that are dry and clean just wipe the exterior and apply your favorite lube as usual.

If the roads are super gritty, sandy etc..the Connex link makes taking the chain "off and on" a breeze; literally 20 seconds. In this case the better job you do cleaning and applying lube the better.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
over the 17 years this site has been around i've been trying to explain the virtues of the wippermann, which go way past simply the connex link. there are so many tech editors who ride this chain. if wippermann made an electronic shift system i think a lot of people would say, "what do you know that shimano and sram didn't know way before you?"

likewise chains, just the other way around.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grill wrote:
Nope but I'm intimately familiar with Alphamantis testing and those numbers just don't gel. That's why I'm asking if there's something special or unique about ERO's protocol. If you used that CdA in a course model, you'd still be on the bike leg at Kona.

It may not have the details you're looking for, but this thread from a couple of years ago provided a lot of info about testing at ERO: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Ask_us_anything_about_Aero_Camp__P4943130/
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Simplicity can be so elegant. I wouldn't be surprised to find something else out there is marginally faster, but I haven't seen anything that comes close in simplicity. Premier just lept above ICE Friction as the leading candidate for my race day drivetrain. Can you comment on how your chains compare to ICE?

I intend to keep a fresh chain "race ready"; swapping out the training chain/cassette prior to major races. Vice-Versa afterwards; back to the training set up. Any thoughts on that approach?

A few follow ups:
~What treatment do you recommend for the rest of the drivetrain prior to installing a fresh chain? Are mineral spirits necessary?
~How do freshly treated chains perform in wet conditions?
~What type of longevity can we expect from the wax coating?
~Can the chains be re-coated?

Scott
Last edited by: GreatScott: Dec 13, 16 20:11
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
over the 17 years this site has been around i've been trying to explain the virtues of the wippermann, which go way past simply the connex link. there are so many tech editors who ride this chain. if wippermann made an electronic shift system i think a lot of people would say, "what do you know that shimano and sram didn't know way before you?"

likewise chains, just the other way around.

A connex chain is one of the best triathlon investments I've ever made. My protocol for my packing my Speed Concept is:
-undo connex link
-unplug Di2 from rear derailleur
-remove rear derailleur
-remove brake fairings
-pull brake wedges
-unplug wires from front junction box to shifters
-unscrew three screws attaching pedestal/aerobars to stem
-take my wheels off

That might sound like a lot to the uninitiated but, for an integrated super bike, it's a revelatory process. I can do all of that and have my bike packed in about 10 minutes at this point. Was the connex chain a "game changer"? No, but it was part of the cumulative marginal gains that progressively made the process easier. I'm probably going to buy Premier's bike case as well and then use JB weld to hold the t-nuts in place on the Speed Concept's riser so that way I never have to fiddle with unscrewing the basebar.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So both Ian and Ray actually have CdAs ~.300m^2? Wow. Unbelievable. Looking at the AeroCoach article, it looks as though everyone is using their own PM for testing? Is that the case?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Shhh don't start picking I was just beginning to feel better about myself. Generally reading these forums or looking at zwift etc makes me depressed as I seem to be the only one with an ftp below 350 watts. That fact that everyone's cda seemed higher than my velodrome testing was making me feel better and a bit less fat -pass me another mince pie.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Edit to add Slowtwitch Discount code: "SICKLE" in homage to the article saying I price the bike like I'm a communist :-)

GreatScott: I think your plan is a good one. It is the plan I have used for my own racing and training.

From what I have read on the ICE Friction website that process is very similar to other process methods that have been available. I believe their claim about improved performance for 200- 400 miles is accurate.

Some companies omit the MSO2 because it is a black powder and does not make the chain as visually appealing. So - no black ICE.

For the rest of the drive train just keep it clean. The chain friction savings is mostly within the chain surfaces (pins, sleeves, inner and outer link plates), the material ratio curves of each component and the interaction between them.

The wax is a great barrier to moisture and grit. The chain will perform fine in those conditions but needs to be cleaned more than in dry clean conditions. The time frame for the wax is highly dependent on the weather. It will last 200 - 300 miles in the worst conditions.

Personally - I take the chain off using the Connex link and clean it in a citrus cleaner (less smelly and works fine) for home cleaning. Then I reapply the wax blend but that is not necessary. You will maintain most of the friction reduction with a high quality lube sold at your LBS.




GreatScott wrote:
Simplicity can be so elegant. I wouldn't be surprised to find something else out there is marginally faster, but I haven't seen anything that comes close in simplicity. Premier just lept above ICE Friction as the leading candidate for my race day drivetrain. Can you comment on how your chains compare to ICE?

I intend to keep a fresh chain "race ready"; swapping out the training chain/cassette prior to major races. Vice-Versa afterwards; back to the training set up. Any thoughts on that approach?

A few follow ups:
~What treatment do you recommend for the rest of the drivetrain prior to installing a fresh chain? Are mineral spirits necessary?
~How do freshly treated chains perform in wet conditions?
~What type of longevity can we expect from the wax coating?
~Can the chains be re-coated?

Scott

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Dec 14, 16 6:38
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power meters have been the biggest headache for us since beginning with Alphamantis. So many seem to be riding around with PM's that aren't working properly mostly due to user error/lack of upkeep. We got to the point a few years ago where we use our own Powertap wheel no matter what. I'll take it to Rich at Wheelbuilder every now and then to make sure it's calibration is correct. It's reliable and also acts as a great speed sensor.

.30 or higher is very typical for triathletes coming in for initial aero testing. Sometimes, though, there's only so much you can do. This video is from a few years ago, but it's a very good age group triathlete with a very good position, and yet his CdA is right around .30. Why? You can't necessarily see it in the video, but Slater has huge shoulders. Shoulders are a CdA killer, which you know, but others probably don't realize.

Re: Ray Maker - we didn't have time the day he was here, but that is a fit I'd love to work on. He's a big guy, but I didn't like his position at all.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
GreatScott

I have added some images of the metal surface before and after treatment. http://www.premierholding.org/...ucts/optimized-chain

These are photos before the WAX/PTFE/MSO2 lubricant is applied.

This shows the difference between our process and other "Optimized Chains".

Our surface base metal treatment is a physical change to the chain surfaces.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you used a PT hub for the velodrome tests of the Tactical (as somewhat implied by the statement in your report that the bike was set up identically as for the wind tunnel tests), then the explanation you provided for the discrepancy in the benefit found under the two conditions is incorrect.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Grill,

A couple of factors that you might add to the stew: I asked Jim quite plainly what I needed to do during the test to execute the goal of this particular test accurately. I hadn't ridden with Jim in the virtual tunnel on velodrome before and I wanted to deliver on an accurate comparison of the Felt IA10 with the Premier Tactical. He asked me to ride steady, in fact that was the thing he kept coming back to. I also had to avoid changing positions between the bikes - and I'm not talking set up, the seat height, pad stack and pad reach were the same on both bikes - I'm talking about the body position tweaks that we can all make while we're riding. I wasn't "turtle-ing" or striving in any way - I was just perched on the arm pads and rollin' steady. My morphology is 6'1", 183, fairly broad shouldered - in terms of road cyclists I'm of the larger verity. And lastly, my fit is so, so, so comfortable: c-t-c on my arm pads is 240mm, when I settle into the aero-position I can hang there all day like I'm in a crib and I love that. I've ridden narrower, lower, longer, etc and this is a place I really love and have nurtured.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew Coggan wrote:
If you used a PT hub for the velodrome tests of the Tactical (as somewhat implied by the statement in your report that the bike was set up identically as for the wind tunnel tests), then the explanation you provided for the discrepancy in the benefit found under the two conditions is incorrect.

Ah, yes, my apologies. For the velodrome tests, obviously we had a PT hub-based wheel with a 40mm depth vs the disc used on the tunnel. I'll correct that. Still, at least some of the difference would be the chain with it's increased efficiency interpreted by the software as a drag reduction.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I need to clarify an issue that has come up with both bike orders and chain orders.

We have had a lot of orders for Canada, UK, Australia, Switzerland and Germany. We are not currently set up to ship orders outside the US. The products are priced based on ocean freight / duty from Taiwan to the US and outbound freight within the US.

I am working with individuals on purchases out side the US but there is additional freight and duty on the customers end for international shipments. As an example freight on chains shipped internationally is between US$45 - $90. I'm looking for better alternatives but have not yet found a better solution.

In addition, we have been contacted by and are considering a few independent distributors in a few countries that we can ship bikes directly to - from Taiwan - to keep customers costs at the same levels as US customers.

Thanks for all the interest.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Dec 16, 16 14:26
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jim@EROsports wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
If you used a PT hub for the velodrome tests of the Tactical (as somewhat implied by the statement in your report that the bike was set up identically as for the wind tunnel tests), then the explanation you provided for the discrepancy in the benefit found under the two conditions is incorrect.

Ah, yes, my apologies. For the velodrome tests, obviously we had a PT hub-based wheel with a 40mm depth vs the disc used on the tunnel. I'll correct that. Still, at least some of the difference would be the chain with it's increased efficiency interpreted by the software as a drag reduction.

I'm still not following. In the wind tunnel, you measure CdA without respect or even knowledge of drivetrain efficiency. The same is true when performing field tests with power measured at the hub. Under identical conditions (whereas you used different wheels) there should be no systematic difference (offset) between the two*, and if there is, you've got a problem.

*Cue Tom A to bring up the tiny amount of rotational drag that generally isn't included in wind tunnel measurements...but before he does, I'll remind him that would result in the wind tunnel results being a hair lower than field test results, whereas the Tactical data go the opposite way.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
thats a real shame you can't do international orders at sensible shipping rates. you should be able to ship a chain from taiwan to near anywhere in the world for next to nothing and then i'd be ordering some
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just a thought for Canada. Get the bikes to your location, send to Canada in two boxes. Then you can call it bike parts as opposed to "bike"

Always ship via usps , they connect via Canada post and there are rarely end user charges. Basically with FedEx dhl and ups I always get weird "brokerage" charges at the end.

I won't buy from u.s. companies that ship this way as you never know how much you pay at the door.

You should be able to ship to Canada for about 100-150$ extra.

My 2c

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you - I will look into that.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [pk1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks.

The chains are installed on the bikes here in the US. The individual chains are all done in a post process in the US as well - so I need to figure out a solution from here.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, look into it. I am just a consumer so things may have changed.

IIRC under NAFTA bike parts are exempt but a complete bike is not exempt (IE duty applies)

The issue with non USPS shipments is that the end user (consumer) in Canada will always get a surprise with private companies via "brokerage" charges (note:not duty)

The issue is that Fedex will give you no satisfaction, so the pissed off consumer will come back to you to vent....even though it is not your fault.

Canadians are generally reasonable people ;-) a shipping charge over and above what the price of the bike is understood..as long as it's reasonable.

You are a new business...a bike business...that is tough, you won't be able to please everyone re shipping and delivery.

I honestly hope you make a go of it.

Cheers,
Maurice

http://www.multisportsolutions.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I was asked to put together a video of the Hard Travel Case. This video was put together using our original sample. I have shipped this case about 20 times both in the US and Internationally. I inserted some "screen shots" that show some of the upgrades made from original sample to production. Better and more padding, a larger accessory bag and better wheel/tire covers.

For domestic flights I have been charged between $0 - $50.00 each way; for international flights (including the domestic legs) I have never been charged. I primarily fly on Southwest and Frontier Airlines domestically and American/China Airlines internationally.

The cases will be available in 30 days. The case will work for other brand bikes as long as you can remove the extension bars. Total packing time is about 5 minutes.

http://www.premierholding.org/products/bike-travel-case


This case is also the "shipping case" for our Tactical Triathlon Bike. Customers who order our bike will take delivery with the bike in this case. From taking delivery at your door-step to being on the road and riding your new PremierBike Tactical - is about 10 minutes.





*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jan 16, 17 9:29
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

I checked out the video. Looks great! Oh man am I excited for this year. Lots of trips planned. Normally I dread flying with my bike but, with this case, things are looking up!

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

The case description lists two front and one rear wheel. The parts show two front and one rear wheel skewer. Have you tried the case using two rear wheels and one front? A very common race travel situation is rear deep wheel and rear disc with one front wheel. It would be great to have this option. From the photos it looks like two of the three wheel pocket openings would be too shallow for accepting a cassette, so you could only fit a second rear wheel with the cassette facing the frame.

I took a quick look through the Tactical specs and didn't see a bar width. Can you please provide? I'm most interested in the out to out dimension or specifically the interior width of the case in the handlebar pockets.

Thanks!
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Re: Premier Tactical [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - two rear wheels will work as well. You could face the cassette toward the bike with the padding in between or put it on the single wheel side facing outward. If you chose the second option it would stick out a bit more but would fit. Just need to use one of your quick releases. (Your bike quick release is used to secure the rear mech guard on the frame).

The inside max width is about 435 mm. The Tactical Base Bar width (out-side to outside with Ultegra DI2 Shifters is
419 mm.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher - Optimized Chain Freight - we have gotten the freight rates for our Optimized Chains down to US$22.75 for orders outside the US.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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I was just going through the old posts and wanted to let you know that we have added an aero spacer tilt to the package. Thank you for in-put. Everything we did on this bike was based on suggestions from athletes and forum contributors.

I also added an under-mount for the extensions so I could get the stack a bit lower on the Small (-35 mm).

Again, thanks for your comments and in-put.

Dan

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jan 16, 17 16:22
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I was just going through the old posts and wanted to let you know that we have added an aero spacer tilt to the package. Thank you for in-put. Everything we did on this bike was based on suggestions from athletes and forum contributors.

I also added an under-mount for the extensions so I could get the stack a bit lower on the Small (-35 mm).

Again, thanks for your comments and in-put.

Dan

Will the tilt kit still work with the under-mount and if so, how much stack does this add?
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Re: Premier Tactical [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI:

The tilt kit will work for the normal over mount set-up. For the tilt option, the tapered aero-spacer sets up under each extension bar so it would not work (positioned on top) with the extension tube - under the base bar - utilizing the under mount.

We have had a few athletes in the 5'5" - 5"6" range that wanted to get a bit lower so we worked out an option to slam the elbow pads to the base bar and run the extensions under the bar bar. That configuration would work on the other sizes but is not really necessary with all the stack overlap between sizes.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
LAI:

The tilt kit will work for the normal over mount set-up. For the tilt option, the tapered aero-spacer sets up under each extension bar so it would not work (positioned on top) with the extension tube - under the base bar - utilizing the under mount.

We have had a few athletes in the 5'5" - 5"6" range that wanted to get a bit lower so we worked out an option to slam the elbow pads to the base bar and run the extensions under the bar bar. That configuration would work on the other sizes but is not really necessary with all the stack overlap between sizes.

I thought it might not work for the extensions, but thought it might still work for the pads.

I really appreciate you making those stack changes for the small sizes as us little guys run into pad stack comprises, or at least I have in the past.
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Re: Premier Tactical [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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Lai:

You can use the Tilt Aero-Spacer under the elbow cups in any configuration.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I was just going through the old posts and wanted to let you know that we have added an aero spacer tilt to the package. Thank you for in-put. Everything we did on this bike was based on suggestions from athletes and forum contributors.

I also added an under-mount for the extensions so I could get the stack a bit lower on the Small (-35 mm).

Again, thanks for your comments and in-put.

Dan

Any pics of the aero tilt spacers yet?

Lack of tilt was the one thing holding me back, but I'm 90% sure this will be my next bike now.
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Re: Premier Tactical [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you - I just have the work-up drawings.

I will have the 2D technical drawings and a sample in about a week. When that arrives I will take some photos and post them up.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Cool - look forward to it.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Anybody using the Optimized Chain on a 1x drivetrain with a SRAM x-sync chainring? Seems like it will work and just curious if anyone has tried it
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Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, and unfortunately no so well. It was really, really loud. I think the Connex chain isn't chamfered for 1X. Switched to KMC and it was much quieter. Great chain and I'll continue to use it on my 2X bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [blackey] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for that in-put. I had the question asked to me but did not have any experience with SRAM 1x

I will discuss with Connex to get thier take on it is well.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [iamAERO] [ In reply to ]
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I know it is not the same but I use an Ultegra ICED chain on my xsync with no issues. But I did notice when I first installed the chainring I had to get a new chain, bought ultegra, because it was super loud. So I wonder if some chains might play different on the narrow/wide chainring or something.

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram - JonnyO Coaching - EGO Tri Team - Greater Than Sports Drink
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Re: Premier Tactical [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
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That's my thoughts as well. The X-sync chainring isn't a quiet ring to start with, so small differences will make a big one. The wax may not help as well as it can be noisier in general.

If you read the KMC literature it's been chamfered for a 1X, as has SRAM. I think Shimano probably did it as well as they sell 1X systems and the chain is also used in their MTB line. I have a feeling different chains will work differently with X-Sync and with 1X in general.

I still like the connex chain and connex link for my 2x bikes, but just will not be using it on this build.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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A few days ago an athlete asked if his Cervelo P5 (54) and his Cervelo R5 would fit in our Hard Travel Case. I did not know, we were both attending the state swim meet so I brought our case to the Illinois Swim Masters Competition event today. We met and tried both bikes. Both bikes fit fine. So - we now know that the Tactical fits, the Cervelo PC3 fits, Cervelo P5 and the Cervelo R5 all fit nicely. Just an FYI for those who have asked.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I looked at the website today - bike looks really promising. However that Waiver that you are required to agree to seems ridiculously over the top. It appears that you are signing away any ability to take action if the product is faulty. If this is the case I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If this is not the intent of the waiver it needs to be better explained. I should not need to engage a lawyer to purchase a push bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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As to Kileys comments in the aero bike thread regarding a bta mount.... I couldn't find it but thought you had said in the past you were working on a mount to go In between the arm pads similarly to the tri rig mount that works with his bars.....am I correct or just making things up?
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Re: Premier Tactical [bujayman] [ In reply to ]
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No - I am not working on a mount like that. Its easier just to tap and drill like most of the bikes we set up yesterday.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [glorylasts] [ In reply to ]
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We stand 100% behind our products. My policy is to make it right for the athlete.

Our policies are listed on the website for each product. If there is an issue with construction, defect, workmanship all those type things we will take care of it. No problem at all.

Many companies have very long small print waivers that no one ever reads.

The purpose of our waiver is to protect us from things that have nothing to do with PremierBike, our products, design, manufacturing quality etc..

If someone has a few beers and decides to show off their bike by riding in the rain, in traffic, in the wrong direction on the interstate ...I don't want to pay an attorney for a year proving its not PremierBike's responsibility. It's really that simple.

The difference between our waiver and other entities waiver is: we say it simply, up front and in normal type set ... so you can read it. The big companies will just out lawyer their customer ... I'm not interested in any form of that.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Apr 19, 17 7:57
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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As far as the bento box goes on the top tube, I know you have it set up for one but is there one that you recommend that works best for it or are you working on one of those?
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Re: Premier Tactical [bujayman] [ In reply to ]
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I have not used the bento bosses yet. It will fit any standard bento.

With the FC35 that holds some gels, water and computer, then I put all my flat kit in the rear storage.

I think it would depend on how you decide to do your hydration. The water bottle bosses in the seat tube and down tube I use when I'm training. You have some options.

You can also take off the rear storage and add hydration there as well

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Dan. I don't think this bike would fit me because of my height, but I really appreciate your responses and what you've done with this bike. I'm really rooting for you.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Have you read number 4? Cause what you're saying here and what number 4 says don't match up. The waiver says Premier is relieved from all liability for negligence, strict product liability, implied warranty of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose.

I'm not sure but I don't even know a person can waive liability for some of those forms of liability. I might look into it today just for fun.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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I will have our team take a look and if it conflicts with what I said above I will have it changed. Thank you.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I just took a look and at least in my state(and following the restatements) strict products liability can't be waived except in some instances but I don't think this would qualify. And sometimes if you overreach with a waiver, there can be consequences. Anyway, yeah, I'd check with your people.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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No one in their right mind would sign that waiver.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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answer will vary state to state. Not that I'm giving Dan legal advice, but if the state where Premier is based has the most favorable law on this subject, then he may also use a forum selection clause (i.e., you would have to bring any lawsuit where he is based) as well as a choice of law provision (must apply the law of the state where he is based no matter where suit is brought)
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Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
I just took a look and at least in my state(and following the restatements) strict products liability can't be waived except in some instances but I don't think this would qualify. And sometimes if you overreach with a waiver, there can be consequences. Anyway, yeah, I'd check with your people.


"I . . . .realize that bicycling may be dangerous under certain conditions . . . I understand that use of PremierBike Limited product(s) may involve . . . risks and dangers which include, . . .the potential forserious (sic) bodily injury or death, loss of or damage to equipment/property, . . . .; equipment failure; inadequate safety measures; situations beyond my control; . . . .. I understand that these Risks may be caused, in whole or in part, by . . . .the acts, inaction or negligence of the Related Parties . . . and I hereby expressly assume all such Risks and responsibility for any damages, liabilities, losses or expenses which I incur as a resut (sic) of my use of PremierBike Limited product(s)."


Am I paraphrasing correctly below?

"Yea, I get it. The bike might fail under me due to the negligence of PremierBike Limited and/or its affiliates/subsidiaries, but I accept the responsibility and waive any right to sue."






Seems legit. . . .
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
I just took a look and at least in my state(and following the restatements) strict products liability can't be waived except in some instances but I don't think this would qualify. And sometimes if you overreach with a waiver, there can be consequences. Anyway, yeah, I'd check with your people.

You're wrong on so many levels I'm not even going to bother with writing them.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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From my state's BarBooks(written by our Bar for practitioners, not that I'm practicing right now): "the seller of a defective product that is unreasonably dangerous to the user or consumer cannot bargain away liability for that defect." Then it cites the restatement of contracts- second 195 and points out an exception for two merchants who acknowledge a likelihood of such potential danger at time of agreement.

I'm less inclined to think I'm wrong on that first part, it's pretty straight forward.

The second part, divisibility, I'm less sure of. Divisibility is something I'm not as familiar with but I know at times invalid contract terms cause problems with a contract as a whole.

Come on, this is the Internet, you really don't want to tell me why I'm wrong? I'm open to admit I know very little about contract law and I'd be curious to know.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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You know. Let me eat my words. I actually scrolled too far down and didn't see all the above. My snap reply was predicated only on the understanding that Dan is very careful with legal issues in his bhsinsss dealings. If we could only convince him to spend money on a graphic designer at 1/10 thd billable ;)
Last edited by: kileyay: Apr 19, 17 10:48
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Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Is this waiver designed to alleviate some perceived liability risk of the user or to protect the company from product failures that might result in injury? Are there quality control issues I assume in China that are being addressed properly?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure how many different ways I can say this - but I will try one more time.

PremierBike will stand behind our products 100%. If there is an issue with the design, manufacture, packaging, workmanship or usability as advertised; we will stand behind our products. Our return, warranty and crash damage warranties are published on our website.

If, after review by our team there is any language implied or otherwise that does not conform to what I have stated above ... I will simply change the language to conform with it. I hope that is straight forward.

In 30 years of owning my own company and manufacturing 100's of million dollars of products - my business and/or myself have never had a liability claim. We have always taken care of our customers and will continue to do so.

But - thanks for asking.

The Tactical is manufactured in Taiwan - not China.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Apr 19, 17 11:07
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I appreciate the response and thank you for correcting the country of manufacture. Although I don't know your business, I absolutely accept your commitment to your customers at face value. I don't think it's an unreasonable concern to be somewhat cautious when a new bike that ticks a lot of boxes, and comes with a bike box, at a very affordable price to ask the question "Where did they save the money?". Perhaps by mirroring many vetted design elements saves on RD and a direct to consumer model is the entirety of that answer.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Yes-those are two elements. Others include our lack of legacy systems, lack of Pro sponsorship, a very lean group, willingness to take less margin and my general idea that I don't take big mark- ups on components I did not enhance: Shimano, Power meter, tires, wheels, seat.

I also know that I don't need to build in a large contribution margin for defective product because we are working with the highest quality materials and manufacturers.

We are hoping to be the best overall value to athletes.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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I think what a lot of you might not know is Dan has been manufacturing in Asia for a very long time. Relationships, boots on the ground, all the infrastructure he needs, was already in place when he started Premier. I'm guessing his past business relationships and experience have transferred quite nicely for him in this endeavor and allow him pricing other small start-ups might not enjoy. He's chosen to pass those savings on to his customers. Nice. That experience also allows him to avoid many of the pitfalls that another new company might fall into raising their overall development cost.

Dan comes across as a really nice guy. You know what? He's actually that nice in person. He really is. Don't let that fool you though. I think Dan is a shark when it comes to business. He's just a shark that honestly cares about his customers.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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I wish this existed when I bought my bike last year, and I wish I had the foresight to know how much I would ultimately spend on bike upgrades and enhancements. I bought an IA16, which I totally love. Then I bought Omega X brakes. Then I bought a power meter. Then I bought carbon 60/90 wheels. Then I bought a carbon cockpit. Then I bought a bunch of drivetrain enhancements to get to mechanical Ultegra. I have a crapton more invested than $5,500. My bike is probably very fast as it is configured, but it is not Di2, and I do not have the cool draft box. And, I do not have a travel case.

The only things I do not totally dig are the extensions (I found that I like ski bend extensions) and the power meter. But, those are solveable.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Not to mention it's allowed him to access the better factories that other smaller niche brands aren't able to use on day 1.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
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Re: Premier Tactical [Runless] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
yep - that was the specific area i was referring to.

thanks for the pick-up

and thanks for prompt response
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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I'll do the graphic design. Gladly.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Are the extensions replaceable with other after market available extensions?

Thank you.
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Re: Premier Tactical [wetswimmer99] [ In reply to ]
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Wetswimmer99 - I believe there is a set of both - J bends and Ski-bends - that will work interchangeably with our system. I have ordered a set to try them on and will report back.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I looked around on the website but couldn't find anything. What crank arm length does the medium come with? How about the large? Thanks.

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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I've been in UK this week and just got wifi. So sorry for late reply- 52/36 with 165 on small and medium with 170 on large.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Off topic, where are you in the UK and how long? If you are anywhere around Oxford drop me a PM, would be great to meet up for a ride or to check out the bike in person.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Coached By: Scott DeFilippis
Team RWB Ambassador | Deals & Discounts from Sponsors
Supported by: Clever Training| Kiwami Tri | Spinlister| Precision Hydration | ISM| Cervelo | CeramicSpeed
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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We are in Ludlow. Bike sponsor for Storm the Castle.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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165 on the small and medium with 170 on the large. I can swap those out if you would prefer something else that Shimano has in the 52/36.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
We are in Ludlow. Bike sponsor for Storm the Castle.

Do you have a UK distributor who handles warranty stuff?
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Re: Premier Tactical [Hoffmeister] [ In reply to ]
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Not yet..,I'm just starting to have discussions with a few potential partners.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Apr 23, 17 7:04
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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The worldwide debut of PremierBikes Tactical took place today under the unusually sunny sky's of Ludlow UK.

There were 400 registered participants - for what is know as one of the most tortuous events around. Set at the Ludlow Castle this run, bike, run is either up or down all day long. Not a flat in site on the runs and a cross between long flats and crazy climbs on the bike.

For 2/3rds of the bike leg PremierBikes Tactical was in first place powered by Gary Walters a local favorite (who also owns the local brewery) so not sure if he is a favorite for his riding or his fantastic local brew :-)

At the 2/3's point on the bike leg and "on the rivet" he accidentally hit a pot hole and we suffered a flat. The competition was too much for the result we had hoped for - but it was a fantastic debut for the Tactical out pacing every other bike for most of the race.

What a race and what a venue.

If your in Lodlow in the spring you just have to do this race....what a great day.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Apr 23, 17 10:50
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
The worldwide debut of PremierBikes Tactical took place today under the unusually sunny sky's of Ludlow UK.

Congrats !

Now Available: the High-Capacity Speedpack 915/915D Series. Advanced Aero Storage, made in the USA.
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"Why would you want to be the last man alive on a sinking ship?" -- Elon Musk on why Tesla Motors shares its patents with competitors.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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PremierBike - Tactical - Paint and decal contest.

If you would like to participate please send me a PM or email me dan.premierbike@gmail.com

We will award $300 to the person that comes up with the best paint and decal design. I will narrow the selection down to 3 designs and then ask Slowtwitch users that would like to vote - make the final decision.

There are some areas on the bike that are difficult to match paint on - so I will indicate that to the individuals that want to participate. We will leave it open for 3 weeks.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Perhaps by mirroring many vetted design elements saves on RD and a direct to consumer model is the entirety of that answer.


Bryan,

Just extending what Dan said above - the bike business is one that is both quite complicated but really rather simple and straight-forward all at the same time. The trick to success is figuring out efficiency's in your whole system, and then settling in for the long haul, being consistent, and focused on the customer(s).

The newer direct-to-consumer operations, have it a bit easier in that they have eliminated, one key customer, and perhaps your hardest sell - Retail Buyers! I love these folks, but working for several different brands in the business, this B2B selling game, is something that consumers never see - it can be MASSIVELY time and resource consuming! Take that away - and now you can focus only on the consumer for both sales and customer service (there can be problems here too), but the process is now more linear.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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"If, after review by our team there is any language implied or otherwise that does not conform to what I have stated above ... I will simply change the language to conform with it. I hope that is straight forward. "

Love it! So rare to hear people talk like that. You are my new heart throb.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Are these shipping yet? I'd love to hear a review of these. Anxiously awaiting the aero shootout also.


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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Very soon - I have two bike I brought back from Taiwan Bike Show that are being delivered next week. We have had one bike in a race (Storm the Castle - Ludlow UK race report above) and a ride review by Ian Murray from the velodrome testing.

I have had our original prototype that I have thrashed as much as possible for about 8 months. :-) I like it and it rides great :-) how is that for an unbiased report.

The bikes are all assembled and bike cases are complete at our assembler just waiting for our plastic parts supplier to deliver - any day now. (front brake cover, rear storage w/lid and BB cover). Then in the container for shipment to us in Chicago area.

I'm also looking forward to the bike shoot out results to be published. The guys did a lot of hard work and the testing was well done.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Perhaps by mirroring many vetted design elements saves on RD and a direct to consumer model is the entirety of that answer.


Bryan,

Just extending what Dan said above - the bike business is one that is both quite complicated but really rather simple and straight-forward all at the same time. The trick to success is figuring out efficiency's in your whole system, and then settling in for the long haul, being consistent, and focused on the customer(s).

The newer direct-to-consumer operations, have it a bit easier in that they have eliminated, one key customer, and perhaps your hardest sell - Retail Buyers! I love these folks, but working for several different brands in the business, this B2B selling game, is something that consumers never see - it can be MASSIVELY time and resource consuming! Take that away - and now you can focus only on the consumer for both sales and customer service (there can be problems here too), but the process is now more linear.

For sure, Steve, I know other triathlon brands are heading in the same direction.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Any plans to get some into the hands of some reviewers?

Also, any chance of getting some higher resolution photos on the site?


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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chriselam wrote:
Any plans to get some into the hands of some reviewers?

Also, any chance of getting some higher resolution photos on the site?

I haven't ridden the bike outside, but I've ridden it inside and been up close with it. I wrote some comments about this elsewhere on the forum and if I ever get a chance will expand upon them, as I probably have enough thoughts for a review, but for now I'll just say the Tactical is an exceptionally impressive bike and a hell of an achievement by the guy who made it. Not perfect -- not yet anyways, or not yet perfect for me, which I've been plenty vocal about -- but I strongly believe this will be my next bike (in a year or so).

Here are some pics: https://www.dropbox.com/...TXNbMa0E4j1qp2a?dl=0
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks, beautiful bike. I'm thinking this is my next bike too. Can't wait to look at these on my computer tomorrow.


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, nice looking ride.

Now Available: the High-Capacity Speedpack 915/915D Series. Advanced Aero Storage, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com......Reviews......Instagram......Facebook

"Why would you want to be the last man alive on a sinking ship?" -- Elon Musk on why Tesla Motors shares its patents with competitors.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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I wish that he had a more conventional mounting system for the extensions so that you can pick your own extensions but other than that I like what I see.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like it took a lot of its design queues from the gen 1 Speed Concept. Which is not a bad thing as Trek got a whole bunch of things right with that bike. Sometimes less is more when it comes to superbikes and it looks like Premier has put forth an awesome machine when everything including cost is considered.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Any thoughts on the disc that comes with the Premier Tactical? Looks like it is available separately for $699 presumably with some sort of backing from Premier despite appearing to be a re-badged generic flat disc. Does it look like it would work nicely on the Speed Concept?

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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JTolandTRI wrote:
Any thoughts on the disc that comes with the Premier Tactical? Looks like it is available separately for $699 presumably with some sort of backing from Premier despite appearing to be a re-badged generic flat disc. Does it look like it would work nicely on the Speed Concept?

Funny you ask. I've been thinking about grabbing one myself and had started drafting an email to ask more about it, but might as well lay down my questions here so everyone can benefit from the answers:

Is the disc tubeless compatible? What are the exact dimensions -- internal width, external max width, brake track width? You mention the blacked out decal option on your website -- any pictures of what that looks like? Would you sell it totally debadged? Is anyone else selling this wheel under separate branding that you know of?

Anyways, I bet it's a solid product. I know it took a long time to develop to meet Dan's required spec. But it's still a lot of money for a race day wheel. Would be interested to hear more
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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
I wish that he had a more conventional mounting system for the extensions so that you can pick your own extensions but other than that I like what I see.

The extension mounting "system" itself is really smart and I wouldn't want to lose that feature/ease of adjustability from the front end, but I totally agree with you on wanting more extension options (and cup/pad options). They know this though and are working on solutions for it already.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the pics.

I've been trading emails with Dan this week and he has been amazingly responsive and helpful with all my questions.

I'm planning on ordering up a frameset and a few chains this week to build it up

In my opinion, the only thing that I wish this bike had is integrated hydration. Something along the lines of the Plasma 5 or Speedmax SLX.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
JTolandTRI wrote:
Any thoughts on the disc that comes with the Premier Tactical? Looks like it is available separately for $699 presumably with some sort of backing from Premier despite appearing to be a re-badged generic flat disc. Does it look like it would work nicely on the Speed Concept?

Funny you ask. I've been thinking about grabbing one myself and had started drafting an email to ask more about it, but might as well lay down my questions here so everyone can benefit from the answers:

Is the disc tubeless compatible? What are the exact dimensions -- internal width, external max width, brake track width? You mention the blacked out decal option on your website -- any pictures of what that looks like? Would you sell it totally debadged? Is anyone else selling this wheel under separate branding that you know of?

Anyways, I bet it's a solid product. I know it took a long time to develop to meet Dan's required spec. But it's still a lot of money for a race day wheel. Would be interested to hear more

Kiley, I'm really curious as to what changed your mind from your previous opinions:

Quote:
The open mold wheels are also a non starter for me. The entire line of defense from these component profiteers about the quality of their factories and the volume of products per annum is getting old. It doesn't mean anything. My guess is the wheels in general and the brake tracks in particular are trash at best and dangerous at worst, like others of this ilk.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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kmill23 wrote:
Kiley, I'm really curious as to what changed your mind from your previous opinions:

Quote:
The open mold wheels are also a non starter for me. The entire line of defense from these component profiteers about the quality of their factories and the volume of products per annum is getting old. It doesn't mean anything. My guess is the wheels in general and the brake tracks in particular are trash at best and dangerous at worst, like others of this ilk.

It's a good question. What changed is that I had a long conversation with Dan where he walked me through the process of how the wheel was wrought. Prior to this conversation, in my ignorance, it was either "those are open mold shit bricks, or those or Zipps/Enve's". But it doesn't really work like that. As far as I understand, Dan didn't just accept what was on the market and throw his label on the cheapest acceptable option -- which is what I thought when I made that statement -- he went around to several Asian manufacturers and told them what wheel he wanted and he challenged them to make the thing. At least one of the Asian manufacturers spent a year trying to make it and failed -- they couldn't hit the internal width he wanted, or something along those lines.

My understanding now is that the difference between Flo and Premier is that Flo owns their molds and they are entirely proprietary. While the mold for this Premier wheel was developed for this wheel, I don't think Premier owns it exclusively, which means eventually you could see it elsewhere with a different branding. Which is fine by me, as long as nobody is paying a lower price than I -- and that's unlikely, because there is no way anyone is going to accept as thin of margins as Premier for any of this stuff -- but that's also why I asked the question of whether it was being sold elsewhere and by whom. Both companies (Flo and Premier) use great factories in Taiwan (not China) that specialize in manufacturing wheels. Zipp, Enve, Reynolds, HED -- those companies are in a different class here as they own the molds and manufacture the product, but you're going to pay for that, and it's not always that much better, especially aerodynamically.

Anyways, I am still fairly certain that the braking on the Premier stuff will be bad. Flo bad. Williams bad. So, in other words, not Zipp good. But also not carbon-cycle off Ebay horrendous or DHGate-level dangerous. I expect the braking to be acceptable in the dry and tolerably bad in the wet. But the disc in particular is a race day wheel and we all know how little braking matters on race day.
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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX - I'm responding to you but answering a few of the last questions on this thread.

1. Along with the current extensions I have J-Bend and Ski-Bend on the way. Should not be long for those - maybe mid July. They will use the same adjustable mounting system and will follow what you see on the market from other manufacturers with regard to shape options. This was one of the first request I had after the launch and I agree they are needed to round out the front end options.

1.a. We tested a lot of options with respect to hydration both electronically and then in the tunnel. Our bike is fastest with the current Profile Design FC-35. Its a nice piece and holds gels, fluid and computer (up front were it needs to be). Our bike tested 3.2 watts faster with that system in place. The new extension option will make other preferences viable.

2. I have been looking/working on two tilt options - one option is complete. Drawings and CNC samples are done and a prototype is on the way. If the first option works well I will just run enough CNC for the first bikes - and will include production product available by July. I will not increase the price and simply add it to the package. If its not acceptable I will look at the second option.

3. The bike will be here soon so you should be able to get some reviews from customers rather than from people I select to test ride the bike. I think their reviews will be more meaningful. I have thrashed this bike in every condition from technical rides to harsh pothole filled roads - bombing it down hills and long steady pace rides. I have used the Front Center adjustment to see if I could feel the difference and have ridden it with 53/39 and the stock 52/36 with varying arm length. I would not change anything .... others with different riding styles and locations will be valuable feedback and I look forward to that.

4. Wheels are interesting in this business. I don't own the molds to our wheels but the factory is selling 100's per month in their Track Tubular 1200 g, Road and Track Clincher 1285 g. Those are sold by companies at prices slightly higher than ours and twice the price of ours but those with twice the price have slightly better hubs. The ones that are slightly higher price up to big margins use the same hub we do.

We use Chosen and some of the other wheels at high prices use everything from decal-ed Chosen, Pillar and up to the various DT Swiss selections (240 and 350 made in Europe and made in Taiwan).

Our disk width is 24 mm at the wheel / tire interface and works well with 23 - 28 mm tires. Brake track is 12 mm wide. The brake track is slightly sloped to the 24 mm wide portion - the flat portion of the rest of the wheel is about 25.5 mm wide down to the hub. Because of the way we shroud the rear wheel CCR is a bit more important than Aero on our bike in the rear - we use 23 mm Continental GP 4000 II as stock. You can go up to 28 mm wide if you like and the comfort trade off may well be worth it. For the blacked out version (everything blue is black) the rest is the same. We are also bringing in a limited number of 88 mm rear wheels in both black and blue decals at the request of some pre-order customers. Interior dimension of the Disk is 16.8 mm. It has a nice cut-out so its easy to fill with air and we supply a crack-pipe with each bike.

The front wheel (88 mm) is the same with respect to decals and hub (Chosen). It is 25 mm wide at the wheel / tire interface, 18 spokes and 17.5 mm wide interior, also sloped brake track. We use Continental GP 4000 II tires as stock. The front wheel is fastest with the 23 mm on our bike; 635 g. You can go up to 28 mm tire but it is much faster with the wheel we use as standard. Dimensions are as follows: 25 mm wide, then the brake slope and then slightly wider 28 mm wheel profile at its widest point and then the taper back to the spoke holes 10.5 mm - works great with the 23 mm wheel creating a really nice aero-foil shape.

General on Wheels - I went to 6 of the best wheel factories that do private label after our coordinator and Taiwan team narrowed down the list from many factory options. Two in China and 4 in Taiwan. I really thought we would go with a factory in China at first. I tested the wheels at "Faster" tunnel based on the quality of their manufacturing facilities and general fit and finish. Some Taiwan companies (most) also have facilities in China so the market is blurred in that respect. I tested GP 4000II, SuperSonics, Bontrager Aero in a number of widths on both disk and front 88 mm. I used a fast control wheel and the wheels were slow. You just can't tell by looking at a wheel.

I then started working with a mid sized Taiwan company that produces a really nice wheel with some neat brake track heat dissipation properties. The front wheel was great and tested good but the rear disk was 19 mm wide and I really wanted to get some width to allow for some comfort for our long course customers. They tried to make a 24 mm wide disk for about a year but could not get it to pass QA within my time frame. Facing non-matching wheels from two different factories I decided to make a switch. Its too bad as they were a nice company.

We ended up with a medium-large well established and very high quality company that meet all the requirements that I had originally set out to meet. They had sought us out hearing that I was looking for a partner; I was lucky to have worked with them as I was not sure which way to go at the time (mid March 2016). They were already working on a wide disk so things just worked out. They own the molds and can sell it to others but have not as of this date because I have book all the production on that particular wheel.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Apr 29, 17 7:24
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Re: Premier Tactical [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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HI Kiley

I live in Taiwan and can tell you made in Taiwan is great but for some things China has passed Taiwan due to production for bigger brands and learning r&d together.

The reason I generally choose made in Taiwan is because I prefer having quick access to my suppliers, ie within 45 mins from my office because as a small brand I do all our own qc.

I had a great chat over a few days at Taipei show with Dan and I agree his bike is well designed.

Dan has a good team in place here in Taiwan helping him on the ground.

Just don't be too quick to judge a product that is new on the market. Small brands may not have as much capital but that doesn't mean they won't be careful in developing a product to pass safety, etc.(granted some small brands do cut corners)

Braking wise, I think some Asian suppliers are making really good safe clinchers just need to know the right supplier.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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I really like the fit and feel of the Zipp extensions so as a customer I would like to have that option to use those extensions. All other contact points I can change to my liking but this contact point is not able to be changed out.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan, thank you for taking the time to reply to my email and others. I was looking at pictures on the aerobar and how do you adjust the width of the extensions. I prefer my extensions closer together with just enough room to place a BTA between them. I know others like them wider apart.

Most have a mounting system that allows for the clamp to be placed inward or outward to allow for this adjustment.

I do understand from looking at your product that you can rotate the extensions inward so that your hands are closer together but that puts the extensions angled in such a way that does not feel very good. It would great if it was possible to have a J-Bend be able to point straight up but be able to adjust the width of the extension only.

I believe that with your system, to get your elbows closer together you have to do so with the armrests only and not the extensions and armrests. I am thinking that if you could someone add 1 more position to go a bit more narrow or have a bracket to allow a more narrow adjustment it would allow more people to find their perfect position.

Maybe I am not able to see how this can be done in pictures but I have checked on your website as well and did not see how this can be done. I do believe that the center to center adjustment needs to have at least 2 options without having to rotate the extensions and place the armrests into the inner most position.

Can you please let us know what the center to center currently is on the aerobar?


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMANX: Apr 29, 17 8:50
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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What an impressively thought out package at a bargain price. If I wasn't already all in with wheels inc discs etc this would likely be my next bike. Kudos.
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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Just a few quick images. I'll out of the office for the rest of the day.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Apr 29, 17 10:15
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the info on the disc. The two biggest questions then:
1) How does it sound?
2) When is it available?

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Whoo ..Whoo...whoo :-)

June 15th +-

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the quick reply. Are you taking pre-orders or will stock just be available once they are in?

Certainly an attractive price point at $1000 less than even a used Zipp CC disc.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Yes- we are taking pre orders on the website.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [culpritbicycles] [ In reply to ]
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culpritbicycles wrote:
I live in Taiwan and can tell you made in Taiwan is great but for some things China has passed Taiwan due to production for bigger brands and learning r&d together.

culpritbicycles wrote:
Just don't be too quick to judge a product that is new on the market. Small brands may not have as much capital but that doesn't mean they won't be careful in developing a product to pass safety, etc.(granted some small brands do cut corners)

Braking wise, I think some Asian suppliers are making really good safe clinchers just need to know the right supplier.

Good points -- thanks for the info. I'm always going to be hesitant buying product from these smaller companies and sole proprietorships -- not just because they have limited capital or aren't careful, but because I suspect they just don't have the throughput and volume to actually get into the best factories. The best factories don't need the 100 wheel order, because they have much bigger clients. Or am I wrong on this?

I'm not going to name names, but I'm also extremely skeptical of small companies run by individuals who never go to Asia, who aren't engineers, who don't have manufacturing experience, etc. I probably should have been paralyzed by a product failure I experienced while riding a Chinese frame distributed by a small American firm that shouldn't even be allowed to conduct business, but luckily I escaped with only a 5 figure dental bill and a broken hand. Hope you can understand my skepticism here.

On wheels, I'm on my fourth pair of Nextie hoops which are made in China. They've been stellar and everything I read online suggests the same. But, they are all disc brake wheels. I think I'm just scared from my braking experiences on the sets of cheap rims I went through on Ebay and DHGate and Aliexpress a few years ago...never again. I should probably keep on open mind as to the breaking quality on these newer rims, especially Dan's, and I will.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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So, a bit OT but in response to the current direction of this thread. You've been critical of Flo in the past. Has your opinion of Flo changed?

Fwiw, my experience with Flo has been very positive. Just asking out of curiosity.

Scott
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Kileyay - I don't disagree with much of what you have stated. If I had not been manufacturing high volume technical products in Taiwan for 20 years, did not have a good reputation there and had not paid on time - every time for 100's and 100's of containers of product - I could not have gotten in with the best factories - and you're skepticism would be well founded. Honestly, I don't know how some of the small bike companies have been able to pull it off.

Fortunately or maybe unfortunately I have spent most of my career in Asia producing high quality products. Starting from zero in the bike business would have been near impossible.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I hope sales go well. If I upgrade my tri bike I would definitely have Premier Tactical at the top of my list with the frame option purchase. I will have to continue with my current bike for a while longer though.
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Re: Premier Tactical [culpritbicycles] [ In reply to ]
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Dan reading everything you are posting on the development of your bike find it very informative. Makes my purchase even more positive. Think you have a slam dunk.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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[
Good points -- thanks for the info. I'm always going to be hesitant buying product from these smaller companies and sole proprietorships -- not just because they have limited capital or aren't careful, but because I suspect they just don't have the throughput and volume to actually get into the best factories. The best factories don't need the 100 wheel order, because they have much bigger clients. Or am I wrong on this?

Yes and No. For coming in as a new player with no previous connection to the factory it is hard to get a place in production with a large reliable supplier. That being said, some of them are willing to find new customers if they have interest in your design and see potential in you. Also based on their capacity. Right now, bike industry numbers are a bit low so many suppliers do have some spare capacity for young brands.


Another big factor in Asia is Guangshi (relationship).. It goes pretty far here. Since we are a small brand, our custom paint is a headache for our supplier but since we have given them some volume paint orders and my Taiwanese wife gets on well with the bosses and wives(usually the financial department of most companies in Taiwan) we have been able to get into some really premium factories as a small customer. Of course, that means your not first in line, but still means your getting quality supply chain.


Another big factor is introductions. I was lucky enough 12 years ago to get connected to alot of Taiwan manufacturers as I requested product sponsorship for my racing days (which I did have til I opened Culprit) and that lead to consulting and the ability to walk factories without being watched like a hawk. So, experience and knowledge, time in the factories has come with that consulting gig from wheel factories, crank, carbon frame/component factory,e tc. So, although I can't do a carbon lay up(which franky FEW brands can) you just need to work closely with your suppliers then fine tune ride feel from riding testing and hitting target numbers in machine testing by being here firsthand to watch the testing, etc.


Some of my suppliers I can walk the factory floor and I am not being chased or followed as the staff are familiar with me from years of relationship and trust built or by previsously being employed by them.. Typically you MUST be accompanied by your sales agent and some suppliers wont really let you walk the floor at all.

I'm not going to name names, but I'm also extremely skeptical of small companies run by individuals who never go to Asia, who aren't engineers, who don't have manufacturing experience, etc. I probably should have been paralyzed by a product failure I experienced while riding a Chinese frame distributed by a small American firm that shouldn't even be allowed to conduct business, but luckily I escaped with only a 5 figure dental bill and a broken hand. Hope you can understand my skepticism here.

absolutely.... I agree without ever having been in or around the suppliers to see first hand and understand the manufacturing process and design its a bunch of marketing BS making claims based on online research from other brands or copying other brands....

So of those small brands. I can tell you Both Ventum and Premier have been to Asia and do due diligence. So I strongly believe you can trust both of those new players.


As Culprit is in bypart my surname (Colp) and my name is on the line, Culprit has worked very closely with our suppliers to develop and ensure our products are top notch but also our customer service must also be equally as good or if not better.


Once we get our new cockpit out I am sure you will be keen to test it and become a believer in Culprit. First Aero road stem and drop bar.


TT stuff to follow


On wheels, I'm on my fourth pair of Nextie hoops which are made in China. They've been stellar and everything I read online suggests the same. But, they are all disc brake wheels. I think I'm just scared from my braking experiences on the sets of cheap rims I went through on Ebay and DHGate and Aliexpress a few years ago...never again. I should probably keep on open mind as to the breaking quality on these newer rims, especially Dan's, and I will.[/quote]
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Some wanted to see what a BTA would look like on The Tactical. This is a basic X-Lab bracket with computer mount.

That picture did not load....I will try again.





*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 4, 17 8:38
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I had a request to see if there were any aftermarket J-Bend and Ski-bend type extensions that would work with the Tactical. In addition I had a request for a tilt option.

As a solution, I had produced a tilt spacer that will work with our current set-up.

Thinking it over I decided to make two addition extension bars that will work with the current set up, as well as with the tilt spacer, to give a wide range of hand positions. I have the spacer now and will open molds on the two additional extensions as soon as we can do some engineering work. These should all be available by August 1st.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
A few days ago an athlete asked if his Cervelo P5 (54) and his Cervelo R5 would fit in our Hard Travel Case. I did not know, we were both attending the state swim meet so I brought our case to the Illinois Swim Masters Competition event today. We met and tried both bikes. Both bikes fit fine. So - we now know that the Tactical fits, the Cervelo PC3 fits, Cervelo P5 and the Cervelo R5 all fit nicely. Just an FYI for those who have asked.

I'm the athlete Dan is referring to in this post. I used the case for a trip to Penticton, BC last weekend. I took my 2016 Cervelo R5 (size 54) on a training trip to scout the LC Worlds course. The case was terrific and I'm buying the next one available! All I did was take off the wheels and seat post. Left the handlebars and pedals on; everything fit great in the case. I threw in an extra Grand Prix 4000 tire, a few tubes, bottles, and cold weather gear in the case. Weighed 43.5 pounds at check in. Packed a Lezyne travel floor drive pump in another bag (this pump rules). I did buy some pipe insulation to cover the frame. No damage flying American Airlines, but was charged $150 each way. Worth it to have my bike for a week in the mountains!

This case is great as advertised. Dan is a great guy; willing to give me his spare case to demo for my trip. Thanks Dan. I loved the case.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I was looking at the BTA picture, ( that is what I will use ) I noticed the graphics on the base bar. I like what you have done simple and nice matches the rest of the bike is a prototype or this going to be standard?
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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That is the current standard.

I have a contest going on right now for paint and decals. So maybe a change in the future :-)

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan you do not have to change a thing I happen to like it the way it is. But it is hard to please everyone
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan, just a question about warranties.

Most of the large bike companies offer lifetime frame warranties for the initial customer. Is that something you were thinking about and discarded? If so, why?

Thanks
Last edited by: BayDad: May 5, 17 13:33
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Re: Premier Tactical [BayDad] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for your post.

We looked at what a number of companies were offering and decided on 5 years for the initial purchaser.

According to the last market study I read (I think it was provided to TBI members) - most athletes keep a Triathlon bike 3 - 4 years. (I am an outlier as I still have a Cervelo PC3 from 2008 or some such date). I have gotten a lot of use out of that Cervelo and after all this time would not expect them to warranty the bike further. I expect to pay for the bike. So I had a great bike for about $40/month. And I could probably sell that bike today for $1,500.00 bring that number down to $1 a day.

I have seen some lifetime warranties that are prorated, in that they amortize the warranty in the fine print - so what you end up getting is a discount on a new bike at list price.

I felt like 5 years was a competitive warranty.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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A few weeks ago we started a "Paint and Decal" contest to get some in-put from athletes. If you have a minute please let us know which one you like best. I have a few more but could only up-load 5 images. The others are on our facebook page @triPremierBike





*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
A few weeks ago we started a "Paint and Decal" contest to get some in-put from athletes. If you have a minute please let us know which one you like best. I have a few more but could only up-load 5 images. The others are on our facebook page @triPremierBike




"Contest 9" is the best one posted here.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Screenshsot_1

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Contest 9 for sure but maybe with some bolder colors.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Screenshsot_1
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Re: Premier Tactical [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
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TH3_FRB wrote:
Screenshsot_1

+1


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Contest 1
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Screenshot 2 - Ombré
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Contest 9!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Contest 9 with more color options.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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 Definitely number 9.

I love the golden yellow, it looks amazing. A version of the yellow one in bold red/orange/blue (like Trek's Madone) would be great too.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Regarding the FC35, did you test it mounted as instructed by Profile Design, or with the mount upside down?
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
A few weeks ago we started a "Paint and Decal" contest to get some in-put from athletes. If you have a minute please let us know which one you like best. I have a few more but could only up-load 5 images. The others are on our facebook page @triPremierBike




Allready stated this at fb, but the designs still look a bit cheap (in a bad way, not in the good affordable cheap way like the pricing of the bike) :) If I had to choose from these, I would go for 9, but I think better designs are possible.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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kinda +1, looks like what would show up from Hong Fu.

*although I entered, so possibly my opinion is tainted/not helpful* #fulldisclaimer

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Podium Sports Racing - http://www.podiumsportsmed.com/team/
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Contest 9 is the best IMO. As for the others, putting 3 primary colors on a bike is, in my opinion, really lame. The faded ones are also cool, but the colors are bad.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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For me the word tactical makes me think military, police, special forces, etc. It makes me think about the old Garmin Tactix watch. Being tactical isn't about being flashy, it's about getting done what has to be done. It's about doing the hard stuff because someone has to.

I'm thinking about someone pointing a gun (I don't have any, so probably more a movie gun) with that little red laser dot on the target.

All that said, my opinion is that with a name like Tactical it should be matte black, glossy black TACTICAL on the tube with a small amount of red, like inside the fork or inside the chainstay or something like that. I don't see neon yellow and tactical going together. And I love neon yellow (running shoes, headphones, gym bag, bunch of shirts...)


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Screenshot 1 and Contest 9 are by the same person obviously. Hire them.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp March 8-10 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Premier Tactical [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed
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Re: Premier Tactical [minimalist] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the replies on the paint and decal. To answer the other question - the FC-35 tested fastest in the lowest position (adding the extension piece and flipping).

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 19, 17 6:06
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Re: Premier Tactical [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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Cnasta wrote:
dkennison wrote:
A few weeks ago we started a "Paint and Decal" contest to get some in-put from athletes. If you have a minute please let us know which one you like best. I have a few more but could only up-load 5 images. The others are on our facebook page @triPremierBike




Allready stated this at fb, but the designs still look a bit cheap (in a bad way, not in the good affordable cheap way like the pricing of the bike) :) If I had to choose from these, I would go for 9, but I think better designs are possible.

+1
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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How close to the head tube was it when it tested faster? Other tests seem to indicate it must be very close (almost against it) to be faster
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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We pushed it back as far as possible with the back of the Profile Design touching the front of the base bar. The portion of the FC-35 extending down does not touch the head tube although I think it might perform just a bit better if it did. I have seen a new model (Taiwan Bike Show) that has some rubber pieces that can be cut to adjust to different bikes so the sides can extend back to any head tube. Not sure if/when that will be available.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. Even with mine flipped upside down and pushed all the way back the gap from the bottom of the bottle to my head tube is several inches so was just thinking that may be too much to get any Aero benefit and may actually result in an Aero penalty
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Screenshsot_1 but everything blue in red. so basically only white and red.







Last edited by: lmar77: May 19, 17 8:30
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Screenshot_1
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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Just an FYI - for anyone thinking about purchasing a Tactical from our first container of product.

Size Small only 1 left;

Size MD 1/2 are pre-sold;

Large we have 6 left.

An additional shipment this year will arrive in September.

5 Optimized chains left until June 7th then we will have another 100 ea including 10 each 10 speed.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 19, 17 8:35
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Contest 9, no contest.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I like Contest 1&2, but would probably lean a little more toward 2 if I had to chose.
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Re: Premier Tactical [lmar77] [ In reply to ]
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lmar77 wrote:
Screenshsot_1 but everything blue in red. so basically only white and red.









This is the best yet, in my opinion. Although white frames get very dirty very fast. Needs to be glossy for sure. Also would carry the black further along on the drive side chainstay. White chainstays are dumb as dumb gets -- looking at you, Cervelo.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
lmar77 wrote:
Screenshsot_1 but everything blue in red. so basically only white and red.


This is the best yet, in my opinion. Although white frames get very dirty very fast. Needs to be glossy for sure. Also would carry the black further along on the drive side chainstay. White chainstays are dumb as dumb gets -- looking at you, Cervelo.
+1
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I have to second what Kiley said about matte paint: don't do it. It's nice the first day you have it but it's impossible to keep it in good shape.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely this one which is on facebook but not in the pictures you linked to here. Definitely want to keep the blue you initially chose, and this is excellent - just adds a bit more blue to the frame while quieting down the disk wheel graphics. Blue seatpost is a 50/50 for me, but love the rest of it- remember, just because some people made noise about the graphics/color scheme, there's others that never said anything because we basically liked what you had going! Also like the facebook one in black/red with the flame-effect graphic...
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Re: Premier Tactical [rahciao] [ In reply to ]
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...this one, he tried again, hoping the attached photo would appear this time....
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I like Contest 9 the best in terms of style. The gray and black color looks the best, though I think you could potentially use some other colors with that scheme that would look nice as well. Like some of the others, I'd prefer glossy over matte.

Just my individual opinion, but I think larger decals look better. It'd look great could with the lettering covering a larger portion of the downtube (i.e. twice as tall as shown in Contest 9).

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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I liked Contest 1 best and Contest 9 2nd. Not a fan of white bikes personally.
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Re: Premier Tactical [lmar77] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, this is by far the bes looking one.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Cnasta] [ In reply to ]
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This is an interesting comment. I see this written about other brands sometimes and I always have to ask, what then do you like? What bike out there has a "not cheap" design?

I think it's important to note that none of these designs would be final - another round or two of edits and feedback would be needed.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
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I like the concept of decals. If you get tired of your color you can change it. There are other bike companies going the decal route, Omni and Diamondback offer various colors. Way cheaper than paint and all those headaches. Dan's design in blue really turned me on. It is a big change for me, I do not own a blue bike. What is really cool he is asking you what you would like. To my knowledge not one bike manufacturer does that.
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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looking to buy one in the next year. really hope that wheels are decals and you offer a solid frame color. a high viz yellow (like trek offers) would be incredible (or matte black)

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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After seeing these designs, I'd really consider hiring a pro to design the paint on this bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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Like I asked before, what is a nice paint job, in your opinion?

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
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Staer wrote:
Like I asked before, what is a nice paint job, in your opinion?

Do you think everyone hangs on every post of yours, or something?

If you asked it before, it was just as absurd the last time. How can anyone speak logically with a person who doesn't understand preferences, especially as it relates to aesthetics, art & design? You truly can't look at two bikes and determine which you prefer? You don't think certain things look "cheap" compared to others?

Which one of those designs was yours?
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Re: Premier Tactical [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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Lol whoah. Take it down a notch.

I was simply trying to state that I asked the question of someone else before. Not being impatient.

I do understand preference, that is why I am asking you what you like. What bike out there do you like? What is a good paint job in your opinion then? Provide images and links. This is how you arrive a better solution. Just throwing around "it looks cheap" and "I don't like it" doesn't do much, especially in the context of a crowd sourced design.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
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Staer - this was actually the next phase of our effort and I appreciate you bringing out the next topic.

The Tactical was made as a result of input from Slowtwitch members, contributors and those that know the business best - athletes. Paint and decals will be no different. It was, in many cases "professionals" that brought $6000.00 frame sets, bad geometry and 5'3'' athletes on 700C bikes to the market .... I'll stick with athletes and forum members for in-put.

We appreciate those that took time to offer up their ideas and put forth a design as well as those that made positive and negative comments. It has given us a lot of ideas. The responses to each design has been varied from wonderful - to cheap.... and that's ok.

If someone has a particular bike or brand that they think has a great paint and decal job - one that would be reasonable to accomplish in a production process - please send me a PM or an email dan.premierbike@gmail.com and those ideas will go into the calculus. Over the next few weeks we will be considering all the in-put.

Based on all the input here, messages to me and on our Facebook page - three designs got the most positive reviews. I will decide on a winner and award the contest prize.

Great food for thought - thank you.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 21, 17 8:34
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Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
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Staer wrote:
Lol whoah. Take it down a notch.

I was simply trying to state that I asked the question of someone else before. Not being impatient.

I do understand preference, that is why I am asking you what you like. What bike out there do you like? What is a good paint job in your opinion then? Provide images and links. This is how you arrive a better solution. Just throwing around "it looks cheap" and "I don't like it" doesn't do much, especially in the context of a crowd sourced design.

Which is, of course, why I did neither. I suggested he hire a professional.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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Right, I understand that.

I've just read comments like yours before on a number of other brands and bikes also (see the current poll!), and have always wondered what those people actually do like. I think it would be helpful (also for my own interest) to point to what you consider a good design.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [Staer] [ In reply to ]
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Staer wrote:
I've just read comments like yours before on a number of other brands and bikes also (see the current poll!), and have always wondered what those people actually do like. I think it would be helpful (also for my own interest) to point to what you consider a good design.

I know you're not asking me, but I agree that they are all pretty terrible. I like pretty much every design on the market better than the current one from Premier, and the vast majority better than the proposed ones. Though the contest options are a bit better, they are still worst in class aesthetically in my opinion. If I had to guess why, I think it's the logo. The logo is poorly wrought in all of those designs, and it is the single most important aspect of the design.

It's much harder for me to think of designs I don't like than of designs I do, because I like almost everything from the big brands. I especially love Felt's modern designs:






I love the simplicity and elegance of my 3T Exploro and of this Canyon:



What I don't like is any of these. I don't like Avenger.



I don't like the "Thrust".


These to me scream "China carbon". I don't know why. But I know it when I see it. Want more examples? Go to Aliexpress.com and search "TT bike". This is where you'd expect to see the Premier Bike design -- right in with this company, and not with Felt or Canyon or anything else.

Here's a thought. Can someone literally rip off Canyon's font/logo and make it say Premier? Let's look at that mock up then go from there, because my sense is that the cheapness of these designs stems from the logo. If we can fix that aspect first, I think it would go a long way.

If I end up buying the Tactical down the line, I'll be making a design myself and painting over any one of these. Unfortunately that virtually eliminates the economic advantage of the frame, bringing it more into line with Speed Concept pricing and perhaps even more expensive than the Canyon. Which is a shame. Price excepted, the only material reason I have left to choose the Tactical over the Canyon (for me) is the base bar, which is perhaps the thing I love most about the Tactical.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that.

I agree with you, the logo can definitely break the design. Both the Canyon and Felt designs are super basic and simple, really not much going on at all - a couple little flashes of colour, or blocked off frame parts in gloss/matte black.

I think Premier needs a rebrand effort first and foremost. Both logo and overall graphic/type treatment. Then the paint job will come more naturally and can be an extension of the brand elements.

staernathan.com - @mikaelstaer
Skechers - VeloFix - B78
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
Staer wrote:
I've just read comments like yours before on a number of other brands and bikes also (see the current poll!), and have always wondered what those people actually do like. I think it would be helpful (also for my own interest) to point to what you consider a good design.


I know you're not asking me, but I agree that they are all pretty terrible. I like pretty much every design on the market better than the current one from Premier, and the vast majority better than the proposed ones. Though the contest options are a bit better, they are still worst in class aesthetically in my opinion. If I had to guess why, I think it's the logo. The logo is poorly wrought in all of those designs, and it is the single most important aspect of the design.

It's much harder for me to think of designs I don't like than of designs I do, because I like almost everything from the big brands. I especially love Felt's modern designs:






I love the simplicity and elegance of my 3T Exploro and of this Canyon:



What I don't like is any of these. I don't like Avenger.



I don't like the "Thrust".


These to me scream "China carbon". I don't know why. But I know it when I see it. Want more examples? Go to Aliexpress.com and search "TT bike". This is where you'd expect to see the Premier Bike design -- right in with this company, and not with Felt or Canyon or anything else.

Here's a thought. Can someone literally rip off Canyon's font/logo and make it say Premier? Let's look at that mock up then go from there, because my sense is that the cheapness of these designs stems from the logo. If we can fix that aspect first, I think it would go a long way.

If I end up buying the Tactical down the line, I'll be making a design myself and painting over any one of these. Unfortunately that virtually eliminates the economic advantage of the frame, bringing it more into line with Speed Concept pricing and perhaps even more expensive than the Canyon. Which is a shame. Price excepted, the only material reason I have left to choose the Tactical over the Canyon (for me) is the base bar, which is perhaps the thing I love most about the Tactical.

This.

I understand you want to have forum input and all, but why not hire a graphic designer and have them come up with some designs, then let ST (or whoever) choose which one they like best?

Also, the fact that the are crap resolution makes them look very thrown together and unprofessional. A nice rendered design would probably make each of these look 100x better than they currently do.
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Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Now I want a "Thrust" bike.


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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I got the chance to see one of these in person yesterday at a local race. It looks WAY better live then in pictures. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I was one of those who said... great value, great build, but not sure of the looks... after seeing it in person I would certainly consider if I was in the market. Any improvements, updates to the paint schemes can only help with first impressions.

Spoke to the bike's owner (well known guy to us NJ athletes) and he went on about the bike and Dan. He also rode to an AG win so the color scheme did appear to hold him back :-)
Last edited by: DDMike: May 22, 17 12:18
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Re: Premier Tactical [DDMike] [ In reply to ]
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Nice to know the bikes are starting to show up.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Fixed Now - sorry for any inconvenience!

Our website developed a glitch yesterday - causing the front page picture to open very slowly. The rest of the site is opening normally. That picture and header is taking about 30 seconds. I have our people working on fixing it.

Thank you for your patience.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: May 26, 17 12:01
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Tactical Extension Tube Option Update - A week or so ago I posted a design prototype of new hardware (first image) that would allow for any round extension tube to seamlessly work on our Tactical.

That design would require the DI-2 wires to extend out the back of the tubes (like many bikes). It was just too messy - so I continued to work through some options.

Our final piece that will be available in 30-40 days are shown in the (2nd ,3rd and 4th) images. I have added a hole that extends to the inner round clamping force section. This will allow an option to run the wires through the extensions and out the side at the clamping junction and down through our spacers - into the base bar. In this option you can still keep the Tactical wire/cable free for a better aero profile.

You would still have the option to run the wire out the back if you did not want to add a 5.1 mm hole in the extension to accommodate the DI-2 wire connector passage.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [DDMike] [ In reply to ]
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I saw the bike in person last weekend at a race. Dan was there presenting the bike to people who showed interest. I understand some of the comments about the aesthetics on this thread, but you really have to see it in person to judge it. This is not just a cheap frame with nice (expensive) components. It is really well designed. I see so many bike advertisements that just seem to be finding problems that do not exist and then allegedly solving them, that it was really refreshing to speak to the actual designer and have him explain what he did. If I had not just purchased a bike this winter, I would be Premier's next customer.

I may not be fast, but once I get going, it is hard to stop me...
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Re: Premier Tactical [BigPat] [ In reply to ]
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BigPat wrote:
I saw the bike in person last weekend at a race. Dan was there presenting the bike to people who showed interest. I understand some of the comments about the aesthetics on this thread, but you really have to see it in person to judge it. This is not just a cheap frame with nice (expensive) components. It is really well designed. I see so many bike advertisements that just seem to be finding problems that do not exist and then allegedly solving them, that it was really refreshing to speak to the actual designer and have him explain what he did. If I had not just purchased a bike this winter, I would be Premier's next customer.

Yeah this seems to be the consensus among those of us who have had some time seeing and understanding the bike. It's a very impressive bike.

I also think it's cool how Dan has heard feedback about extensions and in a matter of six months he is going to deliver a really well thought out solution. The time to market is great and seems he is thinking through all of the finer points in the design.
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Re: Premier Tactical [BigPat] [ In reply to ]
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Really pumped to get mine. Though I have only read and saw the Tactical in print and pictures I really studied every aspect of this bike. I am a time trail bike lover and his design is so well executed. I think he will do amazingly well.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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The bike looks great. I'm confident stack and reach aren't as big a deal as has been made.

Here are the issues for me (and most likely a lot of people) - Customizability and Livability.

Premier forget there is an "I" in tri. People what to customize: this isn't crit racing this is triathlon - e.g. the struggle is internal. This means Identity and personal expression play a larger role in it.

Once you purchase this bike you've got a lot of work to do. You have to get a saddle, you have to figure out those wheels, you have to decide if that crank length is right for your fit. So, you're immediately in the buy/sell aftermarket game.

And then once you do that you're in Speed Concept land - what? What I mean is you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust. I work in a shop and when the mechanics groan seeing a SC walk in you know it's a challenging bike to live with and p.s., I've owned a SC and it was not awesome to live with. Yes the bike is set and forget but people never ever do this - like, ever.

So, the bike sort of dooms you to itself - great if that's all you want. But, I'm guessing as soon as the next aero commercial comes around you'll want to upgrade without riding up grades.
Last edited by: PennBen: Jun 11, 17 7:16
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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are there any real life photos of the PT on ST? i haven't seen.

i'm in the process of deciding if i want to get in a 700cc PT this year, or wait for a 650cc next year.

decisions, decisions. i'm not 100% sure my fit on a 650cc is going to outweigh the fact i can run supersonics and latex tubes on the 700cc frame.

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [PennBen] [ In reply to ]
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PenBen - I notice you just joined the forum 3 months ago; its good to get opinions from new contributors as well as established contributors - stack and reach are the last thing an athlete needs to worry about with the Tactical. In fact, there is massive adjustability in the bike. Extension adjustment length, pad position forward and backward as well as width and stack adjustment (0-60 mm) can all be done independently. I have never seen another bike that has this much flexibility. Most of that can be done without de-cabling the bike in about 5 minutes.

As for customizing the bike - we spent time so riders don't end up with a bin of parts trying to "hope" what works. But, people like options - that is why we developed the extension fixture that will allow for any round extension tube on the market. A tilt spacers allowing for further adjustability. Rear storage on or off. Rear hydration on or off. 1 X compatable right from the start (not an afterthought). Any hydration method you like. Bosses on the top tube, Down tube and seat tube.

The bike accommodates tires from 19 mm - 28 mm.

Our center pull brakes work and can be easily adjusted with an allen wrench while mounted in-place and covers on.

Any wheels on the market fit the bike without chain-stay rub.

We specified the bike with the most current thinking on crank arm length 165 Sm and Medium and 170 Lg) however that crank and arm lengths can be swapped in 10 minutes.

So - that leaves us with a saddle - and on that point we agree. By design we put an inexpensive saddle on the bike. It is the most personal item for an athlete and we expect you will swap it out - that is why we don't waste a lot of money on that piece.

The bike is super fast. Tip of the spear fast compared to every bike its been tested against.

If you want to purchase the bike you compared the Tactical to (and thank you for putting us in good company) with a disk wheel, front 88 both with Continental GP 4000 II tires, excellent power meter, Hard Travel Case, optimized chain, bike fit allowance, Sponsored Athlete Program and personal service ...... The Tactical is the bike and, at about 1/2 the price.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jun 11, 17 8:03
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Re: Premier Tactical [PennBen] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PennBen wrote:
Once you purchase this bike you've got a lot of work to do. You have to get a saddle, you have to figure out those wheels, you have to decide if that crank length is right for your fit. So, you're immediately in the buy/sell aftermarket game.

How is this any different than pretty much every other bike on the market?

PennBen wrote:
And then once you do that you're in Speed Concept land - what? What I mean is you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust. I work in a shop and when the mechanics groan seeing a SC walk in you know it's a challenging bike to live with and p.s., I've owned a SC and it was not awesome to live with. Yes the bike is set and forget but people never ever do this - like, ever.

Curious, other than both bikes having being hidden by a fairing, what makes you think they'll be similar to a speed concepts?

PennBen wrote:
So, the bike sort of dooms you to itself - great if that's all you want. But, I'm guessing as soon as the next aero commercial comes around you'll want to upgrade without riding up grades.

Again, how is this different than any other bike on the market?

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I forgot to add that Dan K stood on the approach to T2 and cheered everyone while also warning riders about a sharp turn ahead. Obviously, he is committed to the sport and the athletes.

I may not be fast, but once I get going, it is hard to stop me...
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Re: Premier Tactical [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Cubic centimeters?
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Re: Premier Tactical [PennBen] [ In reply to ]
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PennBen wrote:
you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust.

You don't know what you're talking about. There's enough to criticize about the brakes on this bike but the difficulty of adjustment is not one of them. They are some of the easier brakes to adjust on the market -- pop off fairing, and tweak with a single Allen key.

If you have hopes and dreams for personalization, you can buy the frameset. Speed Concept frameset = $4500 and Tactical = $3k
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
PennBen wrote:
you now have a lifetime of dealing with annoying brakes that are really difficult to adjust.


You don't know what you're talking about. There's enough to criticize about the brakes on this bike but the difficulty of adjustment is not one of them. They are some of the easier brakes to adjust on the market -- pop off fairing, and tweak with a single Allen key.

If you have hopes and dreams for personalization, you can buy the frameset. Speed Concept frameset = $4500 and Tactical = $3k

I hope dan does well, I'm sure his frame is just as fast as anything out there. But a more fair comparison price-wise would be the Trek 7 series module for 'MSRP' 2999, and most of us don't pay MSRP from our LBS. And the trek comes with a lifetime warranty, and a huge dealer network for spare parts, warranty, service, etc.
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, it's hard to beat the Speed Concept 7 series for sure, although that frame set is not nearly as attractive to me now that they only sell the UCI legal version and also only in that awful color scheme.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I actually do. I've dealt with similar designs and they blow.
But. You've given me a lot to think about. Please don't give up on me.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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I own 3 so called super bikes....S works Shiv, IA FRD Felt and a Dimond. They all have problems. I have a ton of mileage on them and no I do not want to sell them yet. Yes I can live with problems but I want that majic bike. If you would like know the issues with each bike PM me do I not want to get negative on this thread. The Tactical solved every issue about time trial bikes, hiding all the cables, adjustability, weight, storage, packing up and shipping, aerodynamics, amazing value and I know this is personal but I love the looks. Dan hit a home run.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
And the trek comes with a lifetime warranty, and a huge dealer network for spare parts, warranty, service, etc.

I doubt you'll find a Trek dealer in that huge network that actually stocks any of the proprietary SC parts so that's really irrelevant. You'll still need to order and wait for whatever parts you need - and pay out the ass for it. Even at a discount, a replacement "stem" for my SC 9 was something like $150...for a piece of metal and 2 screws. Warranty - okay, that could be a valid point, but based on what Dan has show us so far I'd probably rather deal with him directly for service and warranty support than an industry giant - at least in terms of direct personal service. Premiere Tactical is so small that he can't afford even a single negative review/experience and so far seems extremely responsive to input. Of course being a very small business means it could also be gone tomorrow so where would that leave you in terms of service and support? That's one significant concern I have with the TriRig Omni.

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TH3_FRB wrote:
SBRcoffee wrote:
And the trek comes with a lifetime warranty, and a huge dealer network for spare parts, warranty, service, etc.


I doubt you'll find a Trek dealer in that huge network that actually stocks any of the proprietary SC parts so that's really irrelevant. You'll still need to order and wait for whatever parts you need - and pay out the ass for it. Even at a discount, a replacement "stem" for my SC 9 was something like $150...for a piece of metal and 2 screws. Warranty - okay, that could be a valid point, but based on what Dan has show us so far I'd probably rather deal with him directly for service and warranty support than an industry giant - at least in terms of direct personal service. Premiere Tactical is so small that he can't afford even a single negative review/experience and so far seems extremely responsive to input. Of course being a very small business means it could also be gone tomorrow so where would that leave you in terms of service and support? That's one significant concern I have with the TriRig Omni.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the Trek thing. I'm in Canada, which typically makes it even harder to get anything compared to you folks in the US, yet my trek dealer has easy access to any parts for my bike, and usually takes 1 week to get it from the time I ask for it. Not sure what to say on pricing, prices for parts are what they are. I don't think Premier or any other bike company is going to provide dirt cheap prices for replacement parts. Yes, those trek stems are over priced, agree there. But other parts I've needed, bearings, seat post parts, were very cheap. And how quickly can Dan get parts for you? Is he going to stock a bunch of replacement parts, seat posts, bolts, etc etc here in North America?

I would not fault anyone for buying a Tactical, I think it is a cool bike. I perhaps don't see the value others are seeing, but that's partly personal preference.
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Jun 11, 17 11:22
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRcoffee wrote:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the Trek thing. I'm in Canada, which typically makes it even harder to get anything compared to you folks in the US, yet my trek dealer has easy access to any parts for my bike, and usually takes 1 week to get it from the time I ask for it. Not sure what to say on pricing, prices for parts are what they are. I don't think Premier or any other bike company is going to provide dirt cheap prices for replacement parts. Yes, those trek stems are over priced, agree there. But other parts I've needed, bearings, seat post parts, were very cheap. And how quickly can Dan get parts for you? Is he going to stock a bunch of replacement parts, seat posts, bolts, etc etc here in North America?

My point exactly - even with that "huge dealer network" it still takes you a week to get something. So it's no better than I would expect from Dan. If you could walk into your local Trek dealer and walk out with the part you need then it's a different story. Dan has a single bike model so stocking replacements for the proprietary parts should be simple. I'd be surprised if he wasn't able to turn around a replacement part in days. That doesn't make it better than Trek, expect the fact that you can shoot him an email directly and deal with the source rather than have to work through a multi-step supply chain, but it does mostly negate the perceived benefit of that dealer network. I really like my original SC9 and a new SC9 is on my short list if I get a new bike next year. I have a local dealer who is eager for my business so I'd even get a pretty good price. But it's also hard not to at least consider the Premiere Tactical. I'm looking forward to the results of the wind tunnel challenge and also seeing how early adopters are feeling in a year or so.

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are going with the assumption that just because you can call Dan directly, that he'll have a replacement part right there to overnight to you?
Maybe he can chime in on what the expected turnaround time is when someone needs a replacement part.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SBRcoffee wrote:
You are going with the assumption that just because you can call Dan directly, that he'll have a replacement part right there to overnight to you?
Maybe he can chime in on what the expected turnaround time is when someone needs a replacement part.

I'd be willing to bet it would take no longer than ordering something through my Trek dealer. Dan seems like the kind of guy that thinks about stuff like this and would keep a small stock of parts, bits, and pieces so that he can provide just that kind of responsive customer service.

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
are there any real life photos of the PT on ST? i haven't seen.

We took photos of the Tactical at the shootout.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
With respect to parts - yes we have replacement parts here in Illinois for shipment to our customers. One of the problems with being a small company are MOQ's.

Our manufacturing partners require high "Minimum Order Quantities". So even though we are not building 1000's of bikes in each run, we did have to purchase the small - typically "replacement items" in quantity. Screws, bolts, clamps, stems, spacers, hangers, inserts, aero bars, all the covers and storage pieces etc..

In addition, each bike ships with a complete spacer and bolt kit, 1X spacer, crack pipe, rear mech cover.......... image attached.

We have enough parts ready to ship and on hand in our Taiwan office and in Illinois to build many complete bikes. That is excluding Shimano parts which you can get anywhere and the Pioneer power meters which we order from California on demand.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nice!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I read in here somewhere you use some 88 mm rear wheels coming? Are you going to offer a package of wheels, either with the front and the disc or the front and rear 88s?

Also can you order blacked out online or is that a special order?

Thanks.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [alexer03] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We have the 88 front and Disk as standard equipment. We also have 88s rear that match the front.

You can just add a note in the comment section at check out if you want the 88 rear instead of the disk - if you want to add an 88 to your order - it will fit nicely in the case as there are slots for three wheels. The 88 rear is the same cost for the swap out.

For blacked out wheels also just ad a note in the comment section.

When an order comes in we will contact you just to make sure everything is as you want it and go over your fit numbers.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jun 12, 17 11:45
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
i couldn't find it on the site (i could be wrong). but how does the 200 dollar fit credit work again?

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
when we set up your bike, we use a static fit system along with a discussion with you. We can get you very close.

We recommend that you ride the bike and when ready - select a qualified fitter that you trust in your location (we can also make a recommendation) bring the bike to them for a fit and we will pay $200.00 toward that "dial-in fit".

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dan, I see something in the comments about a 650c bike next year. Is this true?

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes - I'm working on a 650 C bike to provide proper geometry for athletes 5'4" and below. It will have all the same features and aero profiles of the current bike but scaled correctly. The only way to do that is to provide a 650 bike. We will have to spec a Shimano crank alternative but everything else will be the same.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fantastic, thank you.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
Yes - I'm working on a 650 C bike to provide proper geometry for athletes 5'4" and below. It will have all the same features and aero profiles of the current bike but scaled correctly. The only way to do that is to provide a 650 bike. We will have to spec a Shimano crank alternative but everything else will be the same.

What size cranks are you looking to put on the 650c? Will it mean that the Pioneer power meter will not be an option?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [benb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
145 or 150 ... I'm not sure about Pioneer Power Meter. I will need to discuss that with them.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
145 or 150 ... I'm not sure about Pioneer Power Meter. I will need to discuss that with them.

Sounds great Dan! Will it arrive this year?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [benb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hoping first Quarter 2018

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
very interesting, dan.

any thoughts of giving folks options for crank lengths for the 650cc? i've always ridden 170, cus you know. that's what every bike has. i size down to 167.5. which seems fine.

145/150 seems like it would be such a drastic change after riding 167.5 or larger for the past 10 years.

ie: 650cc with 165 cranks? it seems a bit against your "fit philosophy" but if that's what the rider wants?

but while we're at it.

what are folks thoughts on a 650 vs 700. in my talks with dan, it seems like i can get the "BEST" fit on the 650, but my fit on the 700 will be pretty damn close. the only issue is the stand over, i'll be on my very very tippy toes.

but with the 700 i can run supersonics and latex tubes. no such luck with the 650cc. thus at the 140.6 distance, i feel like i may be giving up more time in rolling resistance (assuming the fit is the same), or will the smaller frame also mean less aero drag?

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't know if this has been mentioned before (couldn't find any info on your site), but do you take international orders?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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cc = cubic centimeters
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
We have the 88 front and Disk as standard equipment. We also have 88s rear that match the front.

You can just add a note in the comment section at check out if you want the 88 rear instead of the disk - if you want to add an 88 to your order - it will fit nicely in the case as there are slots for three wheels. The 88 rear is the same cost for the swap out.

For blacked out wheels also just ad a note in the comment section.

When an order comes in we will contact you just to make sure everything is as you want it and go over your fit numbers.

Thank you, but I meant as a wheel package. No bike, just buying wheels.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [minimalist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We are working on international orders process. We have been shipping chains for a while now.

There are a few issues with the complete bike. I would need to get optimized chains and power meters shipped to Taiwan so they could be included.

The current price includes ocean freight and duty on the bulk bike order to the US. Those costs could be saved however shipping a single bike from our Taiwan office combined with end user duty/tax has been a challenge from a cost perspective.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [alexer03] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes - I will add the 88 rear to the website soon. I have some on the way and want to put up an accurate image on the site.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. I'll probably be in the market for a new bike after this season, so hopefully you will have that sorted out then.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Still thinking about an XL frame too?
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Just curious on the 650 thing. Are you going to able to spec. 650 wheels similar to 700 c Tactical. I use to ride 650 bikes, wheels and tires were always a problem. I know Zipp makes a 650 404 carbon clincher but I do not know any others.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't know if we will specify a 404 type wheel. There are a number of high quality manufacturers that are still making 650 in various sizes. We will begin wheel evaluations and testing in the Fall when our ABS frame samples are available.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ahhchon wrote:
any thoughts of giving folks options for crank lengths for the 650cc? i've always ridden 170, cus you know. that's what every bike has. i size down to 167.5. which seems fine.

145/150 seems like it would be such a drastic change after riding 167.5 or larger for the past 10 years.

The problem is that designing for long cranks limits optimising the whole bike design for 650. There are 650 bikes built for long cranks already, so it would be nice to have a properly optimised option.


Connect - Velogic Fit l Facebook l Twitter
Or - Speedtheory l Facebook l Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree.

We believe that for the geometry to be correct - the 650 wheels are required. We also believe that the crank length should be proportional. One could justify preference for 145 - 160 but 150 is very close to generally correct from a proper fit position and geometry perspective - as we see it.

Specific morphology will play a role in one end of the range or another.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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For those of us that have wanted to see the blacked out wheels, photos are now up on PremierBike's facebook page. Looks gooooood...
https://www.facebook.com/...s/?ref=page_internal

-hope the link works

Dan, any further updates on the potential timing or direction of any paint/design tweaks? (PS Keep the blue!)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

With the new mounting hardware, are you now able to use them on the opposite side to effectively change the center to center of the extensions and allow for a more narrow set up?

If this is possible can you post the new center to center in both wide and narrow?


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [rahciao] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As for wheels - decals we will be standardizing on the new black on all the wheels while having the blue as an option.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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The two mounting parts are interchangeable. You can go very narrow or very wide. You can get as narrow as having the pads touch. I will provide the max width number when I get the sample in. I would like to mount them to get an exact range.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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sorry if this has been answered or addressed already, but have you given any thought to the cups/pads in the cockpit. The ones shown look remarkably similar to the older style Tririg ones which were the primary reason I had to ditch those aerobars. They were very uncomfortable. Tririg now offers an upgraded version with a more rounded, comfier shape. Any thoughts on offering something similar?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe in the future. I'll have to check to see if other cups are interchangeable. I have a large selection here and will post up the results.

Edit: I just measured the hole spacing for the elbow cups and its 15 mm on center.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jun 21, 17 11:19
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Same as my PD cups
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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If this has been asked and answered, I apologize. Is there any consideration for making some things optional? I already own a great wheelset, so don't get value out of the bike coming equipped with them. I also already own a Quarq, so don't get value out of the Pioneer power meter being included. I doubt reselling those parts would offset the savings if the bike were just sold without them to begin with.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
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There's a frameset option.


--Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry found my answer

Hard work is faster then aero
Last edited by: surfNJmatt: Jun 23, 17 14:38
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Re: Premier Tactical [chriselam] [ In reply to ]
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There's a big difference between asking for a non-aero wheelset option and sourcing the entire component list and building the bike from scratch.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
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You can swap out the disk for an 88 mm rear if you would prefer that.

We also have a frame set price although if you were to purchase all the same components new and build up a bike the cost would be higher.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Just a general observation about your venture... At this stage it reminds me very much of the early days of Flo Cycling development, when they regularly engaged over a long period of time pior to their launch with the ST audience, listened to the feedback they got and built up a lot of anticipation. In the end they were rewarded with a very successful launch.

I think building a complete super bike is harder than launching wheels but I think you're doing a lot of things right and I wish you success.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
You can swap out the disk for an 88 mm rear if you would prefer that.

We also have a frame set price although if you were to purchase all the same components new and build up a bike the cost would be higher.

I wouldn't, really. I've already made the investment in a set of well tested, proven wheels. The honest truth is that your wheels are unknowns. That means I'm not willing to use them to replace the wheels I've got and I'm also unlikely to get much out of trying to resell them to recoup the cost. Surely I'm not the only that is in this situation. Is your cost on the included wheelset really so low that you couldn't swap them out with an adequate set of road rims, keep the same margins, and still drop the price by $500+?
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sorry - I did not read that into your previous post. I have worked out discounts with individual athletes that have wheel that they would prefer to use.

If you would like to contact me directly we can work out a solution for you.

Dan.premierbike@gmail.com

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dgunthert] [ In reply to ]
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dgunthert wrote:
Is your cost on the included wheelset really so low that you couldn't swap them out with an adequate set of road rims, keep the same margins, and still drop the price by $500+?

I think it would be a good move to offer a decent set of training wheels in place of the race wheels as an option. Even if you don't reduce the price by much the total package would still be a bargain and maybe encourage some folks to go with the full bike over just the frameset. I'm not sure if that does you any good on your bottom line though - I assume most of your profit comes from the frameset and not the components you build it up with. But on the customer service side it could be a positive even if your cost is close to a wash.

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you.

We are working on that and will have additional wheel option available in 45 days.

I'm about 75% finished on an aero road bike design. It has been in the works since March of 2016. That bike is specified with 50 mm carbon clinchers (25mm wide). Those wheels will soon be an option on the Tactical.

We just added the 88 mm rear wheel as an option. That will help round out the front wheel line with 50 mm and 88 and the rear with disk, 88 and 50 mm.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Please ensure that all cables are truly hidden if possible.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking the same thing about flow and the selling, building model they did. It works and it is a smart way of doing business. I think Premier Tactical is going to amazingly well.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Just a bit more of an up-date on the new optional extension hardware.

The samples have worked out nicely. I will do one small refinement and move forward with the option. The images show the interchangeable wide and narrow installation with round tube Zipp extension. The elbow pads installation adjustability is so close they can touch on the narrow installation option and can be very wide on the wide installation. These will work on any round tube extensions.

Please excuse the bar tape :-) I had these extensions laying around.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on the aero bike shootout test...as someone who will soon be in the market for a bike upgrade the Tactical has now rocketed to the top of my wish list, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Curious on the shipment timing, are you shipping bikes yet? If I were to place an order today when could I expect to get the bike?
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Re: Premier Tactical [gd28] [ In reply to ]
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If you placed an order today I will have it in your hands in 25 days.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan,

can you take a stab at what is likely to change between a Tactical ordered today, vs. 3 months out, vs 6 months out?

Thx, S.
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Re: Premier Tactical [stephanl] [ In reply to ]
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Sure.

We will change the decal on the down tube in the next shipment.

We are discussing colors.

We will offer an entry level bike at a lower price point: 50 mm wheels, no hard case, no optimized chain and no power meter. Same frame, fork, aero-bar, seat post, DI-2, but with replaceable shifter's on the bull horns that can be plugged into the junction box. So- extension bar shifting.

We will have all wheels with the blacked out decals. Color decals on special order.

All options will come with the tilt kit.

The new round extension hardware will be a separate purchase at a great price.

So there will be a frame set, lower up-gradable option and the Tactical.

We will have all the bikes interchangeable with the 50 mm, 88 mm and 88/disk options.

We will have a new chain lube that works perfectly with our optimized chain.

We will have an aero road bike that we will offer as a stand alone bike or as a discounted package with the Tactical. The road bike will be compatible with DI-2 or mechanical.

We will also have the XS option on the Tactical.

We will have a full bearing upgrade kit to pair with our optimized chain - rear pulleys, bb bearings etc. at half the cost of our competitors.

Shimano lead times are growing daily so that will be a challenge for everyone. Maybe an option there.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Jul 4, 17 17:30
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan,

Appreciate the thoroughness. Incredible options!

Can't wait to see them all come to fruition and be able to order.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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This was NOT what I wanted to read! I guess I should start saving now. If you price it like I think it might be too good of a deal to pass up!

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram - JonnyO Coaching - EGO Tri Team - Greater Than Sports Drink
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you.
Thank you to Slowtwitch, it editor, contributors and forum members. The PremierBike Tactical would never have been possible without your contribution to the bike's development. Slowtwitch members designed and built this bike.
I also wanted to thank all the early adopters that were willing to purchase PremierBikes Tactical. Many - most - of those athletes purchased based on our "word" - our promise that we did the work, chopped the wood required to be able to say the bike was fast, that our optimized chain would make a difference, the travel case was something that would make travel easier and that the adjustablitity would be something they had never seen before.
These purchases were done before we beat the Felt IA in our first independent wind tunnel test, before we beat the Ventum, Felt, Andean and were within the margin of error (3 Watts) of the Cervelo P5-6 and P5X in the wind tunnel shoot out: at a cost of 1/2 and 1/3 the price.
The Bikes are on (the latest) schedule in LA :-) (which was later than we originally hoped). Next is a short train ride to Joliet and then a little work on our part and the bikes will ship out.
It's been a 3 year development project and many of you have been with us all along the way. Thank you. We are very greatful but are even more proud to be delivering a very fast unbelievable bike at a price that makes our competitors uncomfortable.
More to come.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Love everything you've done, but to be fair, aren't the Felt, Andean and Ventum all within the same margin of error?
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Any updates on when chains will ship?
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Re: Premier Tactical [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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All the chains are shipping from inventory accept the 10 speed. We are still waiting on Connex to fill those orders.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the upgrade in the armrests and extension mounting. I know that when I am able to purchase a new bike, this will be my choice. With all of the features that you already had and the ability to listen to your customers, you have a great product that will sell very well. Also with your pricing options, it is very appealing as I do not travel with my bike so I would never need the travel case.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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How about we scrap the XS frame and add XL frame :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [bujayman] [ In reply to ]
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Could you send me your numbers via PM or email dan.premierbike@gmail.com - We have been successful with some very tall riders on our LG.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
Could you send me your numbers via PM or email dan.premierbike@gmail.com - We have been successful with some very tall riders on our LG.

Agreed. The Large fits some pretty big riders who need a lot of reach. More so than many, if not most, other manufacturers' XL.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Premier Tactical [bujayman] [ In reply to ]
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Just to chime in with a quick comparison case -

I am currently riding a Trek Speed Concept XL with low-far stem, maximum extension reach, and 35mm pedestal. I am 6'4" with 37" inseam.

Based on the Tactical size charts I expect to fit very comfortably on the Large. I will post up some fit numbers and annotated size charts later on today.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry Dan, we've already chatted about this.

No way to get the stack i need in a Large.

Unfortunately
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Ever fit a 6'10" rider?

Want to?
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Re: Premier Tactical [bujayman] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I remember - sorry not go a happen on our large.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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What about a stack of 715 and reach of 440?

Thanks!
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Re: Premier Tactical [gibbby1221] [ In reply to ]
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That would put you with 110 mm of spacers (bridged with a BTA bottle cage) and the steering axis a bit further back than is reasonable. Sorry - no can do.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome to hear that bikes are starting to ship. I'm looking forward to seeing some reviews and pics from customers. I am really impressed at how you/your small company was able to put out a product as aerodynamic as the big boys while maintaining great adjustability and storage options.

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. :/ That's what I thought but I was hoping I'd be wrong.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on your tremendous progress and outstanding results to date. Have you provided the bike to anyone for open road testing and review? I can't find any reviews online.
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Re: Premier Tactical [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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We have a few athletes on the bike that have been riding for a few months. Two are private athlete that don't generally do write ups - so I don't what to out them to anything they have not asked for.

The other is Stephen Delmo from Delmo Sports, LLC. He is a triathlete and race director in New Jersey and has put up a few reviews and has at least two first place age group finishes on the bike this year.

The only other public review was done by Ian Murray who rode the bike during testing on the Velodrome and reported on that in this forum last December.

Everyone else that has put miles on the bike either works with us or for us so they have a big bias.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff - here are some thoughts from Stephen Del Monte - I am posting it here with his permission.

On Jul 27, 2017, at 10:21 AM
The Tactical has been the best purchase I've made in Triathlon in quite some time. I first got involved with TRI in 1999. I purchased a used Raliegh Technium. I rode that bike for two years. I then upgraded to the Quintana Roo Kilo which was THE tri bike way back. I rode that bike until 2007 and started with a stock wheel set and upgraded to Spynergy...then to Zip 404. Once I maxed out the capabilities of that machine I bought the Cervelo P3 Frame set on my 30th birthday. I couldn't afford anything else for the new bike and had to swap out all of my old components onto the P3, the shop wrenches wanted to puke. I put 10 amazing years on the P3 and was now thoroughly ready for a change, but I didn't want to drop 10-15k on a bike. This past January I met Dan at the Triathlon Business International Conference in Dallas, TX. Dan showed me his bike, everything that it comes with, in addition to it's superior wind tunnel testing data.

I know who I am, and who I am not. I'm a family man with a passion for triahlon and the Tactical has been fantastic from the moment it arrived. Everything was nearly dialed in per my measurements supplied on the site. The travel case is 10x better than my old Iron Case and the fact that if fits three wheels perfectly and without compromising the bike inside is fantastic. Look, I know a bike will only take us so far, you MUST put in the work and I am quite familiar with that as the bike is my best discipline. The Tactical flat out performs at the highest level while leaving an EXTRA 10k in my pocket. There is no better value/performance based machine on the market. This is EXACTLY what I've been looking for and athletes in my area are starting to ask A LOT of questions about this bike and rightfully so.


*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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So what's the scoop on these? Close to shipping to customers?
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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All the bikes are in our facility, inspected and looking great.

Left crank arms have been removed and over night shipped to Pioneer (California) yesterday for left arm power meter installation. They will overnight back as soon as they get them attached.

Three bikes delivered to athletes that did not want power meters. 1 local, 2 bike to a customer in UK that flew in to pick them up.

The balance will go out next week when we get the power meters back. :-)

Tried to up-load some pictures but the site says the files are too big.

You can see some pictures on our Facebook site. @TRIPremierBike

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Cool. My friend is getting one. I hope I can check his out next week. Very interested in this bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I got the bike a few days ago, and after getting fitted I went on my first ride today. Just wanted to give some quick feedback. I went out for 50ish miles... The bike felt amazing, and fast. It rides very smoothly, handles well, responds well in both aero and on the base bars, it brakes well and is super comfortable. I felt like I could have kept riding. I am probably going to bring the grip tape back a little further on the base bars though. When going up hills I think it'll be nice to have some extra padding so the area of the palm that connects to the thumb is a little more cushioned. Other than that, I can't be happier with it.

Initial thoughts are all good and I can't wait to race it.
Last edited by: krikiker: Aug 10, 17 20:26
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like these are making it in to the wild. My friend who has one on order said he expected his to ship out today. I think he said something about all they needed to do was but the power meters on the bikes. I selfishly hope he gets it soon. Wanting to check it out as right now I'm between this bike and a Canyon.
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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pics or it didn't happen ;-)
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Which bike can you ACTUALLY get? One is vaporware and one is shipping.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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My wife and her family are from Germany and we split time there. I can pick up a Canyon easily. Not really sure which you consider vaporware and which is shipping. As far as I can see neither are available in the states although I think the Tactical might be soon.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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Are you referring to the Aero Road bike as the vaporware one? If that is the case give the guy a break, he is a small time outfit in the middle of shipping his first full bike and designing a 2nd. Save the vaporware title for when he starts missing deadlines of when he says he is going to ship it (to my knowledge all he has said is that it is being worked on and not provided and timeline for deliveries).
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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We are shipping.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [lmar77] [ In reply to ]
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Here you go:)
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Re: Premier Tactical [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you - yes we are working on both the XS Tactical and the road bike but they are still in development. No time lines yet to announce.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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As an US reader the Cayon is vaporware. Lucky for you, you could chose between the two.
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Re: Premier Tactical [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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Cayon is vaporware, Dan is shipping bikes in the US.
Last edited by: Nazgul350r: Aug 11, 17 6:44
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Very cool to see these hit the market. I can't wait to check them out.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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That makes more sense....sorry for misreading your post. I would agree that Canyon in the U.S. is quickly approaching vaporware status.
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Re: Premier Tactical [lmar77] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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OK I have to admit that bike is sexy.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Looks better with the disk and 88 mm front - front brake cover and rear storage :-)

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I am sure that it does but it just looks clean. This will be my next bike when I need a new bike.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Premier Tactical [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I know right. It is just clean and simplistic looking. I know that in design it is not but well done for sure.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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This picture is a reminder to me that I think wheel size makes as much a difference in the overall aesthetic appeal of a bike as a frame....get some deeper wheels on there and then take more pics!!
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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That blue and lettering doesn't look bad either.

I was really worried about how it would look after the images posted earlier
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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:) I agree as well.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I know you said you don't have any plans for an XL frame but my measurements don't quite "stack" up to your fit guide. To quote Dan, "We could accommodate your fit on the large by adding 1 additional 10mm spacer under the extensions. We would then use a BTA mount to add stabilize to the extensions system."

Would love to see what adding extensions and BTA mount looks like and how this affects the overall "system". Anyone have any pictures of their tactical in the wild using extra extensions to go above the stack guide on their website?
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Re: Premier Tactical [ChevyTri27] [ In reply to ]
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We have not had anyone that has purchased a bike need to do that yet.

We have one individual that is 6'4 that fits on a large but he has a lot of drop.

When I get some time I will put one together and take some pictures.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know why I haven't noticed this. But you didn't drop the downtube to the wheel. Seems like everyone has come to the conclusion that this is faster. The aero bike shootout says your design is just as good. Any thoughts on the dropped down tube?
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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
I know right. It is just clean and simplistic looking. I know that in design it is not but well done for sure.

+1
I love the clean lines on this.

Semi related...Dan I saw 10 speed chains on the website now. Are they ready to ship now? I was thinking of getting one for IM CDA which is just a little over two weeks out but wanted to make sure it'd get here in time to get a practice ride or two before pulling the trigger on it. Thanks.

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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We have 25 ea 10 speed chains just starting production now. They will be ready to ship out late next week.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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I did not do any CFD testing on the other bikes so I'm not sure how the wheel and downtube interact when they are close. We did do some physical bike wind tunnel testing up front to set some bench marks.

I had target numbers we were looking for in CFD on the front end - when the original design with a few tweeks kept getting closer to what we wanted - we just kept going in that direction. Most of that work on the Tactical was with the bar, stem, fork and how they worked together.

I wish I could see numbers on the P5X. The shoot out just goes to show there are many ways to get to low numbers. Really interesting

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Aug 11, 17 14:49
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Here you go, hopefully this one is a little better. It's a little off center but hopefully it works:)



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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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Verrrrry nice.....
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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Love it but not sure about the placement of the bento and how the wind hits it.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMANX: Aug 11, 17 18:51
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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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The gentleman from Dark Speed Works came by a few weeks ago and mounted several of his bento box products. They all fit well and are shielded well when you install a BTA or Profile design type hydration. Without the BTA type hydration it would kind of ruin the nice clean flow. You can store your tools and tubes in the rear storage but for long course the bento would be nice for gels etc..

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Fully agree and would love to know what you would suggest for bta and will you develop your own system?


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I had developed a great aero hydration/computer mount system a while back. The mold cost was 45K so I decided to wait. We then tested most of the products on the market. The Profile Design FC35 was the fastest in its low position. Then PD changed the velcro attachment straps to fixed hard plastic and that made the system not work well (thats why I took that product off the website), the next fastest system is a simple BTA like Xlab which also has the computer mount and velcro straps that attach to the extension tubes. Those straps and that system also makes the whole front end nice and secure if you use a lot of spacers.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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That bike looks very fast and very good.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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That bike is SUPER slick! Jumps to the top of my list when I get a new bike. But does that ever happen when a baby is expected in a few months?! Baby doesn't need diapers right?

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram - JonnyO Coaching - EGO Tri Team - Greater Than Sports Drink
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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Just received my fed ex notification that the bike is shipping on Monday. What caught my eye was the shipping weight 45 pounds (Dan said it is 47) . That is bike, case, 3 wheels and all the parts. My current bag, bike with just 2 wheels I fight to keep under 50 pounds so I do not get hit with over weight fees when I fly. Don't have the bike yet and already won!
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Thought the graphics were changing. Or is that on the next round of bikes.
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice looking. Reminds me of a Shiv TT but with a rear storage box.

So what is the general consensus these days about achieving proper stack height? Is it best to have the base bar at its lowest position and achieve all the height with spacers under the extensions?
I thought unless you had a huge amount of spacers, it was better to have the base bar higher and very few spacers under the extensions? I believe this is what Superdave (formerly of felt...) was saying..
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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 It is slammed stem with spacer for arm pads.
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Re: Premier Tactical [mattr] [ In reply to ]
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On our next large shipment we will have a white, red and blue decal version (on black carbon bike) with slight change on the downtube graphic. Still very limited graphic. All blacked out decals on the wheels.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [krikiker] [ In reply to ]
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Wow...that looks so good
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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 A few thoughts.

Happy to report that our customer's bikes are all shipping out on Monday via Fed X. The bikes look fantastic. We are very happy to have received great ride reports from local athletes that have already been out on the bike as well as friend that always say good things about the bike.

I thought it might be interesting to do a public “Lessons Learned” message with respect to our first shipment.

Before I do that I need to thank all the athletes that were willing to take a chance on a new company. Yes, the price was right but still $5,500 for a new bike is a lot of money. We will support you – thank you.

I set up the business model like Porsche or Mercedes. So it’s hard to tell the models year to year. You will always be able to up grade a Tactical to the newest model for a very low cost and for a very long time. Any new upgrade will be available at a significantly reduced cost to first shipment purchasers.

Those initial upgrades will include Ceramic BB and Ceramic rear Mech. pulleys.

There are a few things that I will change and up-grade for our first time customers (at no charge) and will ensure better products for the next shipment.

1. The rear storage fits great. The lid is too tight. I broke the release tabs myself trying to get it off – I have re-designed the system and will send new ones (no charge) in about 30 days.

2. The rear storage it self needs to be attached without a lot of force. There are expansion tabs inside so it fits really nice with the frame. I think a few people will be a bit forceful so we will have to send new storage parts if they get aggressive while attaching. Please be gentle.

3. The screws that hold the rear storage on are shorter than regular bottle screws so they don’t hurt the seat post. We will have to make sure customers now and in re-sale understand this.

4. On this first model the over all cockpit length adjustment is difficult in that the extension tube shifter wires which are attached to the shifters run though the base bar to the junction box. This makes that particular adjustment difficult. In the next shipment we will add 200 mm of wire from the junction box and the new wire plugs into the shifters so changes will be easy – this will make cockpit adjustment a breeze. We had hoped that Shimano would have had these available for the first shipment but they did not.

The bike is really nice, easy to adjust and super fast. I think our customers will be really happy with their purchase.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Aug 12, 17 16:34
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on the early success! As a follower of your journey, I'm really impressed with the way you have, and are handling this venture. What a great feeling it must be for the early adopters of your brand, to know they will be well looked after... I'm sure there's more than a few people now wishing they were among them!
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Re: Premier Tactical [JBell] [ In reply to ]
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Did anyone else receive the bikes yet? I'm curious about hearing more reviews
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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when will that be? Thx
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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I'm supposed to get mine on Tuesday the 22nd. I'll try and do an unboxing and review as soon as possible. I will say that Dan has been excellent as far as customer service so far. I wrecked my 10 year old Transition Pro at IM Frankfurt and needed a new one. The problem is that I am currently stationed in Turkey and getting a bike out here is difficult (I'd rather not buy something in Europe and pay Euros, I don't make that much).

I'm back in the US on R&R next week for a short time. Dan has been incredible working with me to get a bike out during the short time while I'm in the US. I can't wait to get it out on the road.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Someone is going to undoubtedly heckle me for this (weight doesn't matter that much, ya ya ya I know), but Dan, do you have an idea on the weight of this bike? Say a size medium directly out of the box with everything it comes with (deep front, disc, power meter, Ultegra Di2). The stripped down version that krikiker posted looks incredibly light.
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Re: Premier Tactical [APKTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have a medium in front of me but I have a small built up this morning so I can weigh that.

Small frame, fully dressed - Disk, 88 front w quick releases, rear storage, 60 mm spacers, stock saddle, front brake cover, BB cover, optimized chain (trimmed to fit -4 links), empty BTA w cage mount, power meter, seat tube and down tube bolts but no cages, bento bolts but no bento, GP 4000II w/tubes = 20.25 Lbs.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome! Thanks, Dan.
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Re: Premier Tactical [APKTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I have a large that I just weighed:
-88/Disc
-Empty flat kit storage
-XLab Carbon cage
-Dura-Ace pedals
-Dash (stock) saddle
-All bolts
-GP4000S II w/ butyl tubes

22.0 lbs

More pictures to follow today.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Hi All,

Like many of you I've been following along in the Premier Tactical development. I was lucky enough to meet Dan down at the Escape the Cape Triathlon earlier this summer. Of course the topic of conversation was the Tactical and in talking we decided there was value to had by both of us in a partnership. I am now riding aboard a Tactical based out of Boulder, CO and would be happy to field any question (that Dan doesn't beat me to!) and show off the bike to any locals or those racing the collegiate circuit (MCTC and Nationals). I've included a picture below and a longer first ride impressions and more pictures will follow.



Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [APKTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you 100%. Wisconsin, Kona will hurt you the heavier your bike weights. Building mine up right now expecting it to go in the 19 's ready to race. Will post when done.
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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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IIRC you rode a speed concert prior. Some comparisons between the two in terms of fit, adjustments, handling, ride quality, braking, etc would be interesting.

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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My friend received his yesterday and I spent time with him while he assembled it. It is a stunning bike. I think he ended up having an issue with the battery but he said it wasn't anything major. I'm going to test ride it this weekend hopefully and I will post my thoughts. I encouraged him to join the forum and post as well. He is a bigwig at a manufacturing/robotics firm who has spent a lot of time in nearly every high-end bike/aerospace/biomedical facility known to man and he seems very smitten with this bike.
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Re: Premier Tactical [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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It seems that Shimano needed to do a firmware upgrade on a few of the "the batteries???" never heard of that before. Anyway I spent a lot of time on the phone at 3 am talking to Taiwan OEM Rep.

They said that by the time Shimano shipped to the assembler, the bikes were assemble and the ocean freight time - if a battery went below 20% in some cases it goes into sleep mode (what ever that is). Sounds like a story to me but they got me to purchase a SMPCE1. So I'm doing what they call a component direct firmware something or another on a few batteries.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Matt,

Yes, I did ride a Speed Concept prior. I'm racing out the door for a flight home to Seattle, but hoping to have some time at the airport to put together a post with my thoughts on the bike. Knocked out 4000ft of climbing today up Left Hand Canyon here in Boulder. I was very pleased with the handling and stability both headed up and down.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Alright - I've got a few minutes to jot down my first thoughts on the Tactical. I've now knocked out two rides on the bike here in Boulder - a Neva loop and a Left Hand Canyon climb. I've included a list of my thoughts below and would be happy to answer any questions. Photos at the end. For reference, I am 6'4" and 168lbs.

Case
- I've had a Trico Iron (2 bike) and Swift Carbon (soft case) previously. Both required significant disassembly of the front end, which while fairly straight forward with the Speed Concept did take some mechanical know-how. I bet I could get the Tactical packed/unpacked in under 3 minutes with a few rounds under my belt in the Premier case. Maybe a good video challenge!
- Holds 3 wheels

Fit
- Large Tactical seems to fit very similar to an XL Speed Concept (15mm more spacer on Tactical)
- More cockpit reach available with the L Tactical compared to the XL Speed Concept
- Stack adjustment is stupidly simple. Spacers have slots for the Di2 wire so its just a matter of adding/removing spacers and selecting the correct bolt length (spacer stack + 30mm). Bolts for all stack combinations provided.
- Seat post angle on the Tactical appears slacker than the Speed Concept. I've found I am very close to the max seat post angle, but I also ride a very forward rotated position (>82 deg). This was also the case on the Speed Concept but it didn't look quite as extreme. Only drawback from this has been the inability to use my desired XLab Delta 225 on the Tactical. I might try to 3D print something unless someone knows of a mount compatible with the "slot" style seat post.

Basebar
- Stays fixed for travel (4 bolts to remove extensions)
- Very clean
- Brake hood extensions are "short", but allow you to rest your palms on the fat part of the base bar in the hoods which I really liked. The one draw back was that on the steeps up Left Hand out of the saddle I could only wrap ~3 fingers completely around the extension.

Handling
- Tactical feels very stable at speed. Confidence inspiring for cornering and descending in the aerobars (49mph cornering in aero today).
- Felt a little more wind push than my previous SC + ENVE 7.8 setup. P-88 front wheel is 20mm deeper. I will be running the ENVE 7.8 front at some point for comparison sake.
- Climbed very nicely on moderate slopes, felt a tad sluggish out the saddle on the steep slopes (no light weight road bike surge)
- Holds speed very nicely into the flats (combo of aero, disc rear and stability probably)

Brakes
- Strong braking overall. I had no problem locking the wheels up coming back into town when a truck pulled out in front of me.
- Modulation isn't on disc brake or STI level, but on par or exceeds all my other TT/Tri bike references
- Super easy adjust (same as SC). 2 or 2.5mm allen moves brake pads in and out independently.

Flat Kit
- Dan addressed this above. I had some difficulty with the flat kit as well. Fix in progress
- A quick note for those setting up a bike w/o a flat kit - the seat post flat kit bolts will need to be removed for seat post installation and cannot be installed with the flat kit acting as a "spacer"

Powermeter
- Upgraded to a Pioneer dual-sided.
- Pleasantly surprised with the blue matched Pioneer cover
- Reads right in the middle of my previous 10w P2M/Wahoo Kickr discrepancy. Works for me.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Saw one in the race here in Tremblant yesterday, have to admit it was very nice looking, nicer than the couple of Canyon Speedmax's I saw. The integrated rear storage box flows very nice with the frame.
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. You will be seeing a lot of Premier Tactical bikes at upcoming races throughout the US, Canada and UK.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Another Race Report.

Dan,

I purchased the Premier Tactical 1.0 from you with the hopes of getting it in time to use it for my big race of the season. This was Ironman Mont-Tremblant. I placed my order a little late and it was going. However, you worked very hard and got my bike to me last Tuesday afternoon. I put my new bike together but it was too late to do anything but ride a little on the trainer. I thought I had the fit pretty close and I went to bed. Wednesday I had planned to drive from Oswego, NY to Mont-Tremblant. I had already packed my Felt DA in the truck. I went out and got a ten mile ride in on the new bike. I was immediately impressed. The ride was super smooth. The new smaller crank size was an excellent change. I felt very connected to the bike. My power seemed to easily pour into the machine. After the ride, I new I had set the aerobar elbow pads too tight. I corrected that fit and rode just a little more to see if I improved the comfort. The answer was yes. I packed the Tactical along with my DA, loaded the rest of the truck and headed for Canada. Thursday I go out on the course for a preview. I rode too long, but I was feeling so good on the Tactical that I couldn't help it. I had to make one seat adjustment when I got back to my house rental. That ride on the course was so different than the previous ride I had completed on my Felt. The shifting on the Tactical is so smooth. I was always in the correct gear. My new position on this Tactical is much more aggressive than my Felt. That more aggressive position did not cause discomfort. The wheels I have are extremely similar to those you include. I am riding a FLO 90 on the front and a Flo Disc for the rear. I do this for the metal breaking surface I am most comfortable with. The large profile of the wheels did not present any handling issues different than I was already aware of on my Felt. In fact, I felt more stable on the Tactical. I was in control of the machine at all speeds I rode and in each turn. All of this made me even more excited than when I first got the bike. On Friday, I set up the bike for the race with a new BTB Aero bottle from Xlab, a profile design bento box. I did not add any bottle cages on the frame.
Sunday was race day. I completed the swim and then the long run to T-1. My goal was for a fast T-1. I completed that and got going on the Tactical. I knew my heart rate was higher than I wanted so I tried to go easy on the power. I was keeping the power down and my heart rate was settling in. Doing this surprised me as my speed was not dropping. I kept riding along and the power was where I wanted it. My speed was continuing to stay above where I thought it would be. The other thing that I was realizing was how comfortable I was. As the miles ticked away, I had no discomfort. The Tactical had several different, more aggressive measurements than my Felt and I was worried I would suffer from no ride time on the Tactical leading into the race. That was not the case. This course had three U-turns at the end of out & back portions. The Tactical turned around those without any problems. After 112 miles of riding, I felt really good. Here is my ride:
https://connect.garmin.com/.../activity/1932821297
I have not ridden since the race Sunday. I traveled back home Monday and was back to work Tuesday. I can't wait to get back on the bike and really ride hard.

Thanks,

Ed

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Ahhhh! I need more pictures - and close-ups!!
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Re: Premier Tactical [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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Here are a few more!

I've got the bike setup on the trainer next to me. Happy to snap any close-ups of interest.















You can also find some more pictures of the bike, future designs, and soon to be released products on the Premier Facebook page or Instagram:

Facebook

Instagram

Jack Toland

Last edited by: JTolandTRI: Aug 25, 17 8:49
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan, apologies if this was addressed elsewhere, but do you foresee offering an XL frame?

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning,
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Re: Premier Tactical [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Callin' -

Dan will chime in with a better development outlook, but the next big step is an XS. Comparing the Tactical to a line-up such as the Speed Concept, I would say that the Tactical is really shifted up a half to full size. I was "maxed" for reach and near max for seat post on an XL Speed Concept, but fit comfortably on a L Tactical with reach and seat post to spare. I run approximately 40mm of spacers on both bikes. The Tactical does have a long and low geometry compared to most bikes, but the fit guide will allow you to compare to your current setup.

Tactical Geometry Chart

For reference (on a L Tactical):
Height - 6'4"
Inseam - 38"
Stack - 649
Reach - 513 (center of pad)

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, that aerobar is something special. The way the stem streamlines into the top tube is also really slick looking. Thanks for uploading the pics and the ride report a few posts up.

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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The newer version is much better as it gives you a better set up option.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Great pictures. Thanks, Jack.
If you wouldn't mind... I'm curious about the brakes. I checked out the fb page. Yes, you were right. Many more pictures. I'm still unclear about the brakes though - how does the cable come/go ? I love the look of the hidden wires and cables.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan,
A question about interpreting your fit guide chart. The reach axis is labeled as to the center of the pads but the stack axis is not. However, in the labeled bike diagram also on your site it appears (to my eye anyway) that the stack portion goes from BB to the top of the pads. As a result I'm having some difficulty determining if any size of your bike fits me. What I got out of my recent FIST fit was this:

reach to center of pads (Pad x?) is 440mm
stack to top of pads (pad y?)is 680 mm

Thanks,
Chris
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Re: Premier Tactical [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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I'm showing the bike in NJ at Delmo Sports Wildwood triathlon this weekend. I'll send you a PM when I get back and I can work with you on the fit.

Thank you for your interest.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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The cable routes through the base bar and down through the stem. The front is routed behind the front fork. The rear cable is routed the same way and then down the down tube.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Aug 25, 17 11:33
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Re: Premier Tactical [tobrien] [ In reply to ]
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tobrien -

Hopefully Dan's reply helped provide an idea of the cable routing. I'll pull some covers tomorrow and grab you a few pictures of the brake setup and cable routing.

Also worth noting - I have been very pleased with the braking power. On par with, if not slightly more powerful than the Speed Concept, both setup fairly meticulously.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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My Premier Tactical
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry having trouble posting picture, got as far as paper clip attachment but would not post.
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Nice stickers. I presume this is a training set-up, how are you arranging hydration and food for the big race?

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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rhudson wrote:

Kona stickers? I did not think the Premier Tactical existed last time there was a Kona race.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
Yes - two rear wheels will work as well. You could face the cassette toward the bike with the padding in between or put it on the single wheel side facing outward. If you chose the second option it would stick out a bit more but would fit. Just need to use one of your quick releases. (Your bike quick release is used to secure the rear mech guard on the frame).
Good to know!
2 Points:
1) Your video doesn't show pedal removal as a step, but clearly they are removed.
2) Are you not recommending removal of the RD?

dkennison wrote:
The inside max width is about 435 mm. The Tactical Base Bar width (out-side to outside with Ultegra DI2 Shifters is 419 mm.
IOW, cockpits that are 400 CC + Di2 shifters would fit?
What about max length: RD -> front edge of base bar shifters?
(I'm thinking of getting the case for my P3 with Tririg Alpha + Di2.)

dkennison wrote:
I had a request to see if there were any aftermarket J-Bend and Ski-bend type extensions that would work with the Tactical. In addition I had a request for a tilt option.

As a solution, I had produced a tilt spacer that will work with our current set-up.

Thinking it over I decided to make two addition extension bars that will work with the current set up, as well as with the tilt spacer, to give a wide range of hand positions. I have the spacer now and will open molds on the two additional extensions as soon as we can do some engineering work. These should all be available by August 1st.
These items are not listed on your website. Do you have any pictures?

dkennison wrote:
Our center pull brakes work and can be easily adjusted with an allen wrench while mounted in-place and covers on.
I've yet to see any good pictures of the front and rear brakes.
Do you have any to share?

/Howie Nordström
Altra Running Canada Ambassador
Hammer Nutrition US & EU Ambassador
#plantbased ✌️+🌱
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Re: Premier Tactical [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:
rhudson wrote:


Kona stickers? I did not think the Premier Tactical existed last time there was a Kona race.


Pretty sure rhudson has been to kona, and as far as I know, there is no rule against putting stickers on your bike (even if said bike hasn't been to kona....).
Last edited by: SBRcanuck: Aug 29, 17 2:43
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Re: Premier Tactical [lllusion] [ In reply to ]
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No need to remove the RD. There is plenty of room and the bike is held in suspension with three straps. We do provide a RD protector with bike purchases in case someone wants to use a soft side case.

The Tactical fits with 42 C/C and DI-2 shifters with some room to spare. There is padding inside the area where the bar base sits. I have fit a P3 in the case with no issue.

I have fit 58 Cervelo R4 and P5 with plenty of room.

Pictures of the base bar with hardware for round tube extensions and well as the tilt kit for our standard extensions are on our Facebook page. Those items are schedule for production with the next shipment so we don't show them for sale on the website.

I have been having difficulty posting images here on this site - I have some on our Facebook.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
No need to remove the RD. There is plenty of room and the bike is held in suspension with three straps. We do provide a RD protector with bike purchases in case someone wants to use a soft side case.

The Tactical fits with 42 C/C and DI-2 shifters with some room to spare. There is padding inside the area where the bar base sits. I have fit a P3 in the case with no issue.

I have fit 58 Cervelo R4 and P5 with plenty of room.
Cool. Thanks.

dkennison wrote:
Pictures of the base bar with hardware for round tube extensions and well as the tilt kit for our standard extensions are on our Facebook page. Those items are schedule for production with the next shipment so we don't show them for sale on the website.

I have been having difficulty posting images here on this site - I have some on our Facebook.
I looked through all the FB pictures. (Note the link in my post to the one of the rear brake, with the cover.)
It would be nice to see front and rear brakes clearly, without cover(s).
Also, the only tilt images I see on @TRIPremierBike are design models.

/Howie Nordström
Altra Running Canada Ambassador
Hammer Nutrition US & EU Ambassador
#plantbased ✌️+🌱
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Re: Premier Tactical [lllusion] [ In reply to ]
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If you PM me your email address I can send you some images.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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That is my bike sorry I did not not get a chance to expand on the thread last night. I have been to Kona many times and I like my bikes personal. You will not see another Tactical like it. If you like it fine, if not, it is not your bike. I have 200 miles on the bike. Two rides in Michigan Ohio windy cornfields and one 35 mile 20 hill climb effort. Longest ride was 107 miles with 30 miles of chip seal. The bike handles perfect over all conditions. Two more rides are scheduled this week before packing it up and heading to Ironman Wisconsin. I have already told Dan the my thoughts on the bike and I will share with you. I own 3 other so called super bikes. Felt IA FRD, Dimond, and a Shiv S works. The Tactical is superior and at half the cost. The bike is so clean and stealth. No wires, brake cables exposed just one continuous flow to the rear of the bike. When I first saw the base bar I thought the extensions were to short but Dan did his homework. I climb out of the saddle and dance on the pedals for hills. This base bar is amazing, the best I have ridden climbing. Hands right next to the Di2 shifters with some support from the flat part of the base bar. Firing off shifts so easy and no wrist pain. After many hills my Felt hurts my wrists. The extensions, well you need to look at them. Dan must of had a ton of hours designing these bars. Not only do they curve up they curve in. I have 2-21/2 inch open at the end between the shifters, thumbs set perfect on the buttons. My BTA is totally enclosed. Arm pads, thought they were small when I first saw them at least compared to my other bikes. Again Dan did his homework. Plenty of support but what I really like is when I attack the corners out of the saddle the inside of my arms do not hit the pads. Pictures really do not tell the whole story. Look at the rear wheel. The tire is in cased in a fairing that actually comes out around the tire. There is no gap, you can not see daylight between the frame and the tire. Heck you can barely see the tire. On top of that that fairing goes down below the bottom bracket. You will not find another bike so well thought out. The draft box is a continuous line from the seat post to where it flairs in. The draft box has a co2, inflater head, tube and 2 levers. I can get another tube in. The trick is to unwind the tube and just lay it in there. 2015 I was in Hawaii and saw the canyon speedmax up close. Thought they nailed when it comes to Tri bikes and put it on my wish list ( not available in U.S. ). Then I saw the write up that Dan Empfield did on the Tactical. I looked at every thing I could find. Dan Kennison answered a lot of my questions but in the end just took chance on this bike. Hey the speedmax is good, theTactical is better at a much lower cost. Like I said I am racing Ironman Moo. If you are in Madison and want to see the bike up close and personal I will make it a point to be in front of the convention center by the expo at noon Saturday before racking bikes. This bike will impress you. Thank you Dan for building it.
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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I think the sticker looks good on the bike, and you've earned it. :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [lllusion] [ In reply to ]
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Illusion -

I managed to grab a few pictures of the brakes this morning. I've set a reminder to grab a few more with the stem cover removed. Please excuse the dirt.


(Front brake, cover on, dirt not molding)


(Fork crown from front)


(Front brake cover attaches with magnets)


(Large pad adjustment range, rim width adjustment using screw above PremierBike logo)


(Torque spec on inside of front brake cover)


(Rear brake)


(Housing runs to brake)

*Note - Bike is upside down for pictures

(Pad and width adjustment screws, accessible with cover on)


(Rear brake fairing)


(Access with cover on)

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I am with you these rim brakes are best I have ridden. Plenty of stopping power easy to work on
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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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The brakes look a lot like the TriRig brakes?????


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - very similar. Its a good design. We tried to fit a number of brakes but could not get them to fit.

We made a few adjustments to extend the pad adjustment range, the overall height (primarily for the front brake) and attachment position. My first choice was Magura - I was really trying to get them to work but they were just too tall to ever work on the front. TRP had some good choices but none with a center pull that would fit.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Beautiful Bike! I'll be photographing the IMWI event and would love to get some shots of your bike and you. If you need anything, I live here so would be happy to help out if you need anything.

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

Mark Allen Coaching Elite Team http://www.markallencoaching.com,KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ;
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Re: Premier Tactical [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. I have to be in New York but there should be three or four Tactical's at Madison.

Trying to upload some images of the tilt and round option extension tubes but not having any luck.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Tilt and round extension photos below:











Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Russell - Great looking additions!

Would you mind posting a few photos of your Flare-R mount attachment?

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
Thank you. I have to be in New York but there should be three or four Tactical's at Madison.

Trying to upload some images of the tilt and round option extension tubes but not having any luck.

Hey Dan, Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like. I'd be happy to get what you need if any of the owners are able to make themselves available. As a longtime pro, I am able to get some outstanding images with exceptional hi resolution.
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Re: Premier Tactical [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you. It would be great to get some action shots.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
Thank you. It would be great to get some action shots.

Will do!

Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

Mark Allen Coaching Elite Team http://www.markallencoaching.com,KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ;
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Jack can not down load pictures site to difficult will keep trying or can email them to you. Flair bracket attached to an L bracket attached to seatpost slot with a wing nut bolt. Had to modify the flair light bracket a little bit. Dan created a place to hang the flair light or race number plaque and did not know it
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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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here are pictures
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! Looks like a clean setup. I was going to attempt to 3D print an aero seat post bracket like Trek makes, but this looks far simpler.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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JTolandTRI wrote:
I managed to grab a few pictures of the brakes this morning. I've set a reminder to grab a few more with the stem cover removed.
Thanks!

BMANX wrote:
The brakes look a lot like the TriRig brakes?????
That was my initial thought as well.
Actually, I see TR in the BBar as well. OTH, TR's BTA mount is Boss!

JTolandTRI wrote:
Tilt and round extension photos below:
Thanks!

---
The Tactical offers a lot for the money. It would, however, be nice to see the website improved with specs and photos, and all the possible options/configurations.

/Howie Nordström
Altra Running Canada Ambassador
Hammer Nutrition US & EU Ambassador
#plantbased ✌️+🌱
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Re: Premier Tactical [georged] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like Dan has started to prepare for order number 2:

- The Tactical 2.0 is up $650 from the initial go around. Dan has added a few improvements from the 1.0: ceramic pulleys, ceramic bottom bracket, a tilt kit, and improved grips on the extensions and bullhorns. Still a very good deal for what may be the third fastest bike on the market.

- The Arrow 1.0 for $4760 which looks like a good option for those that already have race wheels and a powermeter they like. As Dan mentioned in an earlier post, its the same frameset as the tactical. The differences are 50mm wheels (instead of the 88mm+disc), and powermeter no race tires, optimized chain, or hard case. I'm guessing it won't have the ceramic pulleys and bottom bracket but that it will have the tilt kit and improved grips of the Tactical 2.0. Will let Dan chime in on this. Also, it mentions no Di2 basebar shifting. Would riders be able to add this later (I'm assuming by buying the Shimano ST-6871) by themselves?

- The frameset is about $400 less expensive than before. The pictures show the new logo's/decals which are an improvement imho. A single color and they are more visible/easier to read. Red, blue, or white. I'm guessing these same decals are on the complete builds as well?

Per the site the plan is to ship in December. Great job continuing to refine your bike/company Dan!

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Cool race number holder.

Where did you buy it?
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Re: Premier Tactical [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Pun_Times - thank you for the write-up. It's accurate and spot on.

We are updating the images for the Tactical and Arrow.

The Arrow is a bike that can be 100% upgraded to the Tactical specification. We just wanted to offer a lower price point for those that already have duplicate components or want to upgrade later.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I had developed a great aero hydration/computer mount system a while back. The mold cost was 45K so I decided to wait. We then tested most of the products on the market. The Profile Design FC35 was the fastest in its low position. Then PD changed the velcro attachment straps to fixed hard plastic and that made the system not work well (thats why I took that product off the website), the next fastest system is a simple BTA like Xlab which also has the computer mount and velcro straps that attach to the extension tubes. Those straps and that system also makes the whole front end nice and secure if you use a lot of spacers.


Dan, could you provide some details on what made the PD not work well (with/on the Tactical) after they changed from velcro to fixed hard plastic?

Thx, S.
Last edited by: stephanl: Sep 5, 17 6:40
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Re: Premier Tactical [stephanl] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - thank you.

The original PD-FC35 used a velcro attachment method for the extension tubes. Our tubes are oversized. Velcro fit fine.

If you used their extenders (width) that system fit perfectly and was very fast. If you mounted the bracket up-side-down (please see Jim Manton write up ERO Sports) you could set the hydration low (even more aero)

PD changed the attachment clamps to a hard plastic. These are molded to fit on round tubes so now they don't work as well.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan, I will be purchasing a new frameset before the 2018 season, currently researching the PRsix, SC, and the Tactical. How do I get your bike into Canada? Do you have Canadian shipping logistics on the road map anywhere? Thanks!
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Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - we have shipped a few bikes to Canada. We use Fed X ground. We can prepare all the paperwork for you. When you decide to purchase just contact us and we can go over all the details.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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That's great to hear. Does wherever the front di2 junction box is hiding also have enough room to fit the eTap blipbox?
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Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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We put the A Junction in the BB cover. There is a cavity specifically made for it.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I wasn't super clear, I have a SRAM eTap groupset on my current bike that I would move over. The blipbox (junction box equivalent) is larger so I am wondering if it fits in the same cavity. I can measure mine if that helps. Thanks!
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Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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Yes - sorry I guess I was not very clear either. The cavity is 55 mm deep X 25 mm wide X 35 mm.

The inner shape is sloped so there is a little more room than a simple rectangle.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, unfortunately that's not going to fit but that pretty much goes for most bikes. Are there any holes in the cavity to route the cables through the inside of the extension/base bar, to the cavity, to the exterior? Here are 2 examples from other bikes:

http://cdn.triathlete.com/...16/10/LC-Trek-03.jpg
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...etap_junctionbox.jpg

Right now on my P2 I have the blip box mounted underneath my standard BTA bottle cage so as long as there is someway to get the cables to the exterior of the bike I should be able to find someplace (relatively) out of the wind.

I've attached the blip box dimensions too.

Thanks!
Last edited by: aavlee: Sep 7, 17 20:36
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Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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I think it will fit in the BB cover. There is additional space in the frame itself above the cover. I will print a sample based on the dimensions you provided and see how it fits. Give me a few days and I will let you know for sure.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Sep 7, 17 20:40
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I think it will fit in the BB cover. There is additional space in the frame itself above the cover. I will print a sample based on the dimensions you provided and see how it fits. Give me a few days and I will let you know for sure.

That sounds awesome, thanks for taking a closer look. Looking forward to hearing from you.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I think it will fit in the BB cover. There is additional space in the frame itself above the cover. I will print a sample based on the dimensions you provided and see how it fits. Give me a few days and I will let you know for sure.

I dont have one and am not in the market anytime soon, but when I am, this bike/company will be tops on my list because of things like this.

This kind of customer service says a lot about him as a person and the image he is portraying as a company, not often will a company say "Hey, I dont know if what you have will fit or not, but I will make a part the same size to the specs you gave and see if it fits, just give me a few days"
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
I think it will fit in the BB cover. There is additional space in the frame itself above the cover. I will print a sample based on the dimensions you provided and see how it fits. Give me a few days and I will let you know for sure.

That's not going to work for eTap. The wires from the blips are only 300 mm and the blip box has to be mounted somewhere around the stem area. There are no wires that route through the frame towards the rear of the bike. The BB us definitely too far.

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
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Re: Premier Tactical [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for that information. So it's not like the DI-2 where you can swap different length wires to move things around?

Are the shifters hard wired with 300 mm wires - with the disconnection at the blip-box?

I'll check out a wiring diagram and see what is possible.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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This might be an option for the blip box. Run all the wires internally through the bar and further through the extensions. Then out the forward most adjustment hole in the extensions. With the box mounted slightly below or slightly above the extension bars - you should have plenty of grip room.

An alternative would be internally route the wires like we do the DI-2 and then out through the top of the stem cover and mount on top of the stem cover or alternatively inside a bento box.

If you run a BTA the box would be shielded.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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To be honest, I think this is a problem that needs a better solution and given your willingness to listen and make appropriate changes, I have no doubt you will.

In the years 2017/2018 and for a bike is being marketed as one only for electronic shifting (DI2, etap etc.), it should be functional and aesthetically pleasing for all such shifters. Are there solutions that could be rigged using etap with the current set up--sure...but none that are any more appealing (and perhaps less appealing) than a frame that doesn't market itself as built for electronic shifting and those don't all allow for complete cable integration. I don't know if there is a way to functionally make the cavity near the stem/aero bars big enough to house a blip box and keep cables hidden, but that would probably seem to be the ideal location.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Sep 8, 17 10:31
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you- which bike do you think does the best job of concealing the blip box?

I'll try an find a few examples that do a good job and see if we can come up with a good solution.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Good question to which I do not have an answer...hopefully someone else can chime in.

I have a 2014 P2 and I simply secured my blip box via the garmin mount that comes with the blip box to my stem. That could certainly be done on the Tactical. But, personally, if I were to consider "upgrading" (and the Tactical would be on the short list if I did), I would only do so to a frame that would entirely conceal the blip box.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Just purchased Premier's chain. I can honestly say that the customer service offered by Dan is the finest that I've ever seen for an online retailer. The chain was back ordered when I placed my order. I emailed Dan to see if I could have it before the masters world cycling TT. He promptly emailed back and offered expedited shipping to me in France. If this is the service that he offers for a small purchase, he's definitely setting a new standard in customer care. I wish them all the best!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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The only bike I have seen do it well is Tony Martin's Canyon

http://www.velonews.com/...anyon-tt-bike_442209

and I'm sorry, but I have no idea how they hid the blip box, or if they are even using production parts.
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Good question to which I do not have an answer...hopefully someone else can chime in.

I have a 2014 P2 and I simply secured my blip box via the garmin mount that comes with the blip box to my stem. That could certainly be done on the Tactical. But, personally, if I were to consider "upgrading" (and the Tactical would be on the short list if I did), I would only do so to a frame that would entirely conceal the blip box.

I'm hoping, and I suspect, the Blipbox isn't going to be around or necessary much longer. I don't have any solid inside info, just a smirk here or there when I mention it to people who would know.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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But, of course, the new technology we are currently investing in will be obsolete very shortly.
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Re: Premier Tactical [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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is there any way to splice the blip wires and solder on a longer intermediate section, then stash the blip box under the saddle?

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning,
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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dkennison wrote:
This might be an option for the blip box. Run all the wires internally through the bar and further through the extensions. Then out the forward most adjustment hole in the extensions. With the box mounted slightly below or slightly above the extension bars - you should have plenty of grip room.

An alternative would be internally route the wires like we do the DI-2 and then out through the top of the stem cover and mount on top of the stem cover or alternatively inside a bento box.

If you run a BTA the box would be shielded.

With this, couldn't you just skip the Blip shifters, since from what I understand you can shift directly with the Blip Box? You can still route the cables for the base bars to shift remotely.


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Re: Premier Tactical [Callin'] [ In reply to ]
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Callin' wrote:
is there any way to splice the blip wires and solder on a longer intermediate section, then stash the blip box under the saddle?

Yep. It is just a 2-wire cable connected to a momentary switch.

I've made a set of Clics out of some push buttons I got from Fleabay and used the stock cables from the blips that came with the group. I couldn't source the 2mm male plug sadly so I had to waste a good pair of blips.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
Good question to which I do not have an answer...hopefully someone else can chime in.

I have a 2014 P2 and I simply secured my blip box via the garmin mount that comes with the blip box to my stem. That could certainly be done on the Tactical. But, personally, if I were to consider "upgrading" (and the Tactical would be on the short list if I did), I would only do so to a frame that would entirely conceal the blip box.


I'm hoping, and I suspect, the Blipbox isn't going to be around or necessary much longer. I don't have any solid inside info, just a smirk here or there when I mention it to people who would know.

I second this. Given that they were able to avoid using a blip box in their road group, I imagine SRAM is working to come up with a better solution to the TT group. Having to figure out where to put 4 wires and an object the size of a garmin edge somewhere around the stem (where it's just gonna get in the way of the wind) kind of kills the romance of the whole "wireless" shifting.

Matt
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry, I thought when you said BB you meant basebar for some reason. The blip box definitely needs to be somewhere by the stem but as long as the cables can be routed to the exterior then it will work. Does the cavity where the junction box is stashed have a lid? I would be willing to drill a small opening for the wires and continue to mount the blipbox on the BTA cage. I want to buy a frameset from you whether we can get the blip box internally or not so I'm sure we can work something out.
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Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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I have been thinking about this a bit and believe the box will fit inside the downtube where our JC200's are now without modification or drilling.

I'm out of town right now but when I return I will try and install a system and report back.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Full page ad in the Ironman Wisconsin athlete guide on the Tactical
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds good, keep me posted here or through PM. Also a post earlier said that the blip cable length was 300m, I just measured my set and they are 650mm in length.Let me know if you have any questions.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I saw an athlete on the Tactical this morning, and it looked amazing in person. Super impressive!
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Re: Premier Tactical [derailleur'd] [ In reply to ]
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derailleur'd wrote:
I saw an athlete on the Tactical this morning, and it looked amazing in person. Super impressive!

Yeah, I agree. The one we aero tested was pre-production and looked "okay." We have two Medium's in our fit studio and the final product is very nice; looks great in person.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports / ERO Insight

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Premier Tactical [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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My Tactical has shipped and I can't wait to get it!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan

Firstly well done on bringing this to market - I think you are absolutely spot on with your product offering and I am 90% sure I will be making an order shortly.

two quick questions and apologies if these have been covered above:

- is the Tactical compatible with the tacx neo trainer?

- what is the cross section on the front wheel?

thanks
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Re: Premier Tactical [Sloggy] [ In reply to ]
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Sloggy you can use the Tactical on the trainer. No issues.

Front wheels specifications:
Tire Type:
Clincher
Rim Width:
[brake track width] 25 mm, [maximum width] 28 mm, [tire bed width] 17.5 mm

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the speedy reply.

Just to be clear I wasn't asking whether the bike was OK to use on a trainer per se, but rather whether you were aware of any clearance issues on the Tacx Neo in particular. I have the second generation of that trainer so I don't think its a particular issue anymore, but certainly on the Gen I there were certain bikes that didn't fit around the plastic case. I just wondered if you could say for sure it would fit.

On the front wheel, I guess what I was looking for was a description of the shape - is it a V shape, U shape or some other toroidal wheel shape? or better yet a picture, eg:



cheers
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Re: Premier Tactical [Sloggy] [ In reply to ]
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I have the 2nd generation Tacx Neo. Once I get the bike I will let you know how it fits.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Cafe Lactate] [ In reply to ]
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I am tempted to just get the blipbox and the RD and put the blipbox exactly like shown and just run that and see how it goes.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: Premier Tactical [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I would if I were you. Heck, tri rig mounted to blip box in an extender and ran no clics/blips. It looks goofy (and not wuite sure how he did it) but many options here.
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Re: Premier Tactical [Sloggy] [ In reply to ]
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Not the best image - It's a lot like the HED profile with slightly angles brake tracks.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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thanks very much again

last one I promise - do you have a rider weight limit? I am *cough cough* 90 kgs
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Re: Premier Tactical [Sloggy] [ In reply to ]
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You're fine ;-) 220 lbs

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Wanted to say what others have:

Seeing this bike in person (at the AC 70.3 expo), it's really impressive. Makes me want to need a new bike.

dkennison was there answering questions and talking about the updates he's working on (which is cool), and he was hanging out at the race, too. Really nice guy.
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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aavlee wrote:
Also a post earlier said that the blip cable length was 300m, I just measured my set and they are 650mm in length.Let me know if you have any questions.

Yeah, that was my bad. I was guess g from memory but I knew they were way too short to route through the frame to the seat tube or BB area. Sure, you can splice longer wire in but to me running 4 wires through the frame mostly defeats the intent of "wireless". To me the benefits of eTap are no wires running to the derailleurs, no entrap battery wired to all the components, freedom to mount the blips virtually anywhere on the cockpit, and the intuitive "paddle style" shifting. I'm okay with the blip box being externally mounted as long as it's clean and out of the way. You want to have easy access to it but doesn't need to be out in the open while riding.

----------------------------------
Sisu Multisport & Endurance
Sisu Multisport & Endurance on Facebook
My blog - ON-ON (to Kona?)
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dand] [ In reply to ]
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dand wrote:
Wanted to say what others have:

Seeing this bike in person (at the AC 70.3 expo), it's really impressive. Makes me want to need a new bike.

dkennison was there answering questions and talking about the updates he's working on (which is cool), and he was hanging out at the race, too. Really nice guy.

funnily enough this is one thing putting me off finally pulling the trigger - I've been an early adopter on bikes before and been frustrated by some fairly obvious flaws that soon get fixed, just not on my bike. I'm not talking about parts that could be replaced, but flaws with the frame (yes Planet X Exocet Mk 1, I'm looking at you).

I might wait until there are a few more user reviews out in the wild
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Re: Premier Tactical [Sloggy] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure Dan can chime in too (I believe he or someone else posted it earlier on the thread), but I probably should have been more specific when I wrote that he was talking about updates:

He was talking about improving some parts, e.g. the cover for the draft box, *and* sending out a replacement to early adopters. I was really impressed by how candid he was about factors in the design and revisions.



Not arguing your point about early adopters, just wanted to clarify (since I see how my post could be read as it did for you).
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Re: Premier Tactical [dand] [ In reply to ]
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Cheers, appreciate it

I'm sure new-bike-excitement will overcome early-adopter-anxiety before long ; )
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Re: Premier Tactical [Sloggy] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for your post.

As was said there are a few items we are changing in 2.0 but really just upgrades.

We will provide the original PF BB supplied by Shimano (as a back-up) but will install a really nice ceramic BB on the 2.0 bikes.

We will provide a ceramic rear pulley kit for the 2.0 and will also provide the original pulley system for those that want to use it as a race day system.

We currently have standard bar tape and will be upgrading to a nice foam type grip for 2.0.

We will provide a tilt kit as standard with the 2.0 for those that like "high hands".

All these items will be available to our 1.0 purchasers well below the upgraded 2.0 cost as a thank you for being early to purchase.

The 2.0 gets new decals and color options.

The only issue we have had with the bikes is that the rear storage lid is too tight. In my effort to make sure we did not have lids fall off I overcompensated. So new storage boxes with lids are being produced and will be on the 2.0 and I will supply the new version to 1.0 purchasers at no cost.

Other than that we would not change a thing. It's a super sweet ride.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Old and New.

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Re: Premier Tactical [Olu] [ In reply to ]
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That's an upgrade!

Boulder/Denver STers -

I'll be racing the Tactical at this weekends Oktoberfest Triathlon in Longmont. Feel free to check out the Tactical, grab my attention for some questions, or shoot me a message to arrange another time to check out the bike in Boulder. It is a sweet ride!

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [Olu] [ In reply to ]
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Quite the upgrade there! You really maxed out that forward saddle position didn't you! Is your saddle height that different or is there some sort of optical illusion going on.
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Re: Premier Tactical [aavlee] [ In reply to ]
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aavlee wrote:
Quite the upgrade there! You really maxed out that forward saddle position didn't you! Is your saddle height that different or is there some sort of optical illusion going on.

There's no optical illusion. The seat is lower in that shot. Still working out issues with the seat.

It's definitely an upgrade from the B10. Funny thing is that with the Zipp wheels, crank & brake upgrades, power meter...etc. It was almost double the price....7 years ago!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Finishing up on the XS.

No - I don't recommend the two water bottles for racing :-)

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Quote Reply
Re: Premier Tactical [Olu] [ In reply to ]
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I was first introduced to Premier Bike through Brian Stover just after the aerotest. Dan was immediately helpful over email in discussing the bike and how it all worked.

I had some time off between switching jobs and decided to visit Dan in Joliet to collect the bike. Dan was a gentleman in helping me find somewhere to stay in town and chicago. Dan also came to pick me up from the airport and took me back to his home where he and his lovely wife Victoria fed me deep dish pizza. I was so touched by this warmth and friendliness from complete strangers but to me it underlines the brand Dan is building. Dan then worked through the night to have the bike ready so I could go to Chicago the next day.

Riding the bike is comfy and it feels fast and slick through the air. I had ridden it a little bit on the turbo and for 20 minutes outside before taking to my half ironman a race on Saturday. Despite ferocious wind and my temporary perched position, the bike handled beautifully, comfortably and whipped round the course helping me set a 10 minute faster split over last year. I'm so excited to see what we can do together next season.

The bike also looks gorgeous and the comments it has had when I've been out and about with it shows how fantastic a product it is aesthetically but practically, it's a super bike with super bike times at a ridiculously low price.

I should also say that I'm the least techie person in the world. Dan has endured my constant emails for advice and help, immediately, with humour and excellent customer service. Dan is simply the man.

I would have no hesitation in recommending Dan, Premier Bike and the Tactical and have already recommended it to 4 other triathletes.

See you for the road bike when she's ready!

Ollie
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi All -

Reporting in after my first race aboard the Tactical. I managed to claim the win at the Oktoberfest Triathlon off a 27.1 mph bike split aboard the Tactical. One of the big questions for me before climbing aboard the Tactical was fit - can I get enough reach? I'm 6'4", 37" inseam and ride with a fairly stretched out position. I had the Speed Concept maxed out in reach. I've included a few pictures of my position aboard the bike below. I still have another 2cm of reach and ~3cm of seat post extension possible on the stock setup. I do plan to add the tilt kit.

Unfortunately I don't have any great data from this event as I made the notice mistake of not zero'ing my powermeter after the first pairing, but I will have a solid 30min effort to gather some great data this Sunday.










Pictures thanks to SkiPix.com (Longmont, CO)



Jack Toland

Last edited by: JTolandTRI: Oct 5, 17 7:00
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Re: Premier Tactical [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Jack - Nice images thank you.

I just got notice that the tilt kits will ship to me today so I'll make sure you get a set.

Congratulations on the result.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for helping out my friend from Rockford yesterday. She's totally geeked about getting her new Tactical!
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Re: Premier Tactical [dangle] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice to work with and looks to be a very serious athlete. A little chit-chat to get to know each other - but as soon as she went up on the trainer she was all business. Glad I could dial her in. All the AG'ers around Rockford, Illinois need to listen for "on your left" from this nice lady. :-)

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Dan!

Great to hear the tilt kits are on the way.

Jack Toland

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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dan,

I've been wondering... Have you considered offering your wheels with ceramic bearings? (correct me if I'm wrong, that they are currently standard issue bearings). With the other ceramic upgrades that you've added, I just wondered why this one hasn't been added?
Thanks!
Jon
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Re: Premier Tactical [JBell] [ In reply to ]
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I have been looking into it. There are trade-offs. The ceramic bearing issue gets more and more interesting the deeper we look in to it. A really fantastic steel bearing Is sometimes a better option. But there are a lot of considerations based on what the athlete is will to trade and how involved they want to get.

If we decide to go in that direction we will also evaluate more hub options.

As an example: with the 2.0 Tactical we are replacing the standard press fit BB with our new ceramic bearing system. It is really a much better long term solution as a system and has reduced friction at a small (athlete involvement trade off).

But for the rear ceramic pulley system we will leave the stock Shimano system on the bike for everyday training and include the 11/15 ceramic system in a kit so athletes can install it a few weeks before a big race if they want too. That upgrade does not meet the better overall system criteria like the BB in our eyes. Maybe a very very slight friction advantage but nothing like the overall benifit as the BB system provides.

With the wheels we are looking at those type trade offs.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting. I admit, I am completely naive to the negatives of ceramic, but I appreciate that you are. I know that for me, I want "free speed", but not if it becomes a high maintenance pain to deal with.
Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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October 17, 2017

For Immediate Release: Premier Tactical - ERO Sports


http://www.ero-sports.com/2017/index.php/ero-insight-blog/19-the-premier-tactical-is-here

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Oct 17, 17 12:21
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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I saw your new RD pulley on Facebook. Will that be available just for Tactical bikes or will it be for sale as a standalone item as well?

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Premier Tactical [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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They are standard items with the 2.0 Tactical arriving after the first of the year, available to 1.0 Tactical purchasers as an upgrade (at a very low cost) and as regular sales items for general purchase - at costs consistent with our model (Quality Manufacturing... Intelligent Design... Reasonable Prices).

If production stays on schedule - items will be available a bit sooner for upgrade and general purchase (mid December).

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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Re: Premier Tactical [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
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Dan- In the release, it mentions that ERO will be the only place west of the Mississippi where one can see and touch the bike in person, etc. Does that imply that you have or will have similar arrangements with shops elsewhere (east of the Mississippi...)?
Separately (and I'm sure this is covered elsewhere but I cant find it), what is it exactly about this bike that makes it non UCI legal? And does that make it illegal for regular USA Cycling races? I enjoy doing an occasional TT race and while no officials ever seem to be inspecting the bikes, I can't tell if the Tactical would be ok or not.
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Re: Premier Tactical [TJL3] [ In reply to ]
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We hope so - I am actively looking to work with 5-9 professional fitters geographically spread out in the US non-brand non-LBS affiliated fitters. I would like to set them up in the same way I work with Jim at ERO Sports. One of each size bike on consignment at their place - one of which is assembled so I can refer people to see it.

If someone comes in for a fit or I refer someone in for a fit and they like and fit on our Tactical...they simply go on-line and order the Tactical from Premier. The fitter is not in the money loop. I confirm payment was received to the fitter, the fitter sets up the bike and gives it to the athlete right then and there. I hope that athlete will continue to utilize the coach/fitter for additional services.

Then I pay $200 to the fitter for the fit work and another fee for the bike referral. Then I just ship another Tactical to replace the bike sold.

The fitter has no investment in any inventory just a few sq/ft of space.

The Tactical does not meet the 3:1 ratio and you can not see daylight between the rear tire and the seat tube. Those are the two items although most officials don't seem to enforce the 3:1 rule anymore. I'm not an expert on all the various governing bodies and their rules so I can't speak with any authority on that issue.

*******************
Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
Last edited by: dkennison: Oct 19, 17 12:39
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Re: Premier Tactical [TJL3] [ In reply to ]
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TJL3 wrote:
Dan- In the release, it mentions that ERO will be the only place west of the Mississippi where one can see and touch the bike in person, etc. Does that imply that you have or will have similar arrangements with shops elsewhere (east of the Mississippi...)?
Separately (and I'm sure this is covered elsewhere but I cant find it), what is it exactly about this bike that makes it non UCI legal? And does that make it illegal for regular USA Cycling races? I enjoy doing an occasional TT race and while no officials ever seem to be inspecting the bikes, I can't tell if the Tactical would be ok or not.

USA Cycling does not strictly follow UCI rules for the amateur fields. USA Cycling rules are much looser. You can check them on their site. Most of it is about seat and aerobar positioning, same wheel size, etc. Pretty sure the Tactical is fine according to USA Cycling rules. If you decide to do a pro race, then you may fall under UCI rules.
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Re: Premier Tactical [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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I had never thought about this, but if its not technically UCI legal, then I am guessing it is not ITU non-draft legal either?
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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I think I remember reading somewhere in this thread that it was submitted for approval and approved. So yes, it is.
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Re: Premier Tactical [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcanuck wrote:
I had never thought about this, but if its not technically UCI legal, then I am guessing it is not ITU non-draft legal either?

It's not UCI road racing time trial legal. Has nothing to do with triathlon legal. Felt, Specialized, all the beam bikes, and many other companies now have UCI illegal triathlon bikes that are perfectly fine for Ironman and ITU events.
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Re: Premier Tactical [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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nightfend wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
I had never thought about this, but if its not technically UCI legal, then I am guessing it is not ITU non-draft legal either?


It's not UCI road racing time trial legal. Has nothing to do with triathlon legal. Felt, Specialized, all the beam bikes, and many other companies now have UCI illegal triathlon bikes that are perfectly fine for Ironman and ITU events.

Here in Canada, most of the events that -aren't- Ironman brand, follow ITU rules.
Currently, Reap, Omni, P5X and Ventum are on the allowed 'unusual' bikes list for ITU. Perhaps the Premier is legal anyway and may not require any special approval like the others, since it isn't missing any tubes..

https://www.triathlon.org/...titions_20170711.pdf
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