Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]

Mar 16, 19 19:25

Post #476 of 531 (19482 views)

turdburgler wrote:

I'm not saying that he isn't a bit of a knob or the FLO letter isn't a hoax, but I do believe his testing TBH.

Excellent. I've got some great investment opportunities that you can get in on the ground floor with, I'm sure you'll be interested. You're guaranteed to make a killing on my Brooklyn Bridge Real Estate Income Trust, and my Nigerian Stock Exchange Index Fund.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]

Mar 16, 19 19:58

Post #477 of 531 (19439 views)

:) Maybe I'm wrong. Who knows. I didn't use it to inform any race decisions that I didn't already know (like the tyre width interaction with the width of the wheel at the brake track)

Regardless he's definitely a knob, but there is some truth in what he is writing I suspect. I remain open to all ideas and enjoy seeing how they bare out over time.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]

Mar 16, 19 20:42

Post #478 of 531 (19405 views)

turdburgler wrote:

I'm not saying that he isn't a bit of a knob or the FLO letter isn't a hoax, but I do believe his testing TBH.

I think it's less likely that he really did that wind tunnel testing than the FLO letter is real. And there is no way that FLO letter is real.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 19:05

Post #479 of 531 (19127 views)

Based on this, it seems like there really isn't a huge difference between deep section wheels and disc wheels? thoughts?

https://www.strava.com/athletes/11645943 https://www.instagram.com/timeforicecream/

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [DylanD] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 19:13

Post #480 of 531 (19119 views)

When in doubt, run a rear disc. Generally I call BS on claims that you can "feel" that a wheel is faster, a frame is stiffer (or more compliant), etc. However I've ridden a rear disc in TTs and tris with decent crosswinds and YEAH the sail effect is real.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hblake] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 19 15:51

Post #481 of 531 (18872 views)

hblake wrote:

there are other more accurate and affordable gauges that can easily be carried in a bag and used to set pressure on race day,

Care to share what these would be?

Thanks!

.

The newest product that I like is Silca's new travel pump the VIAGGIO TRAVEL PUMP. I know that is $275, but it's a great option.

Aside from that, you can build your own unit from parts like these: https://www.alliedelec.com/product/dwyer-instruments/dpga-09/70328629/ OR https://www.alliedelec.com/...s/dpgab-09/71444517/

All you have to do is add a presta fitting and a relief valve. Here's a picture.

Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Aug 11, 19 18:49

Post #482 of 531 (17302 views)

Set your calender. Hambini is posting his video 17 Aug 19.

I wonder if they will help explin how the testing was carried out.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]

Aug 11, 19 19:10

Post #483 of 531 (17280 views)

How can I describe my curiosity.... it's kind of like being told you're about to watch a NASCAR race where the lug nuts on left side of every car have been loosened. In theory everything could go fine but there could also be an enormous crash.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Aug 11, 19 19:31

Post #484 of 531 (17241 views)

HA, I wish I could watch that, I will miss it. I hope the comments are enabled on the live stream.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 19 0:11

Post #485 of 531 (16788 views)

Nazgul350r wrote:

Set your calender. Hambini is posting his video 17 Aug 19.

I wonder if they will help explin how the testing was carried out.

very techy, and a lot over my head (as he said it would be). that said, i enjoyed watching it.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]

Aug 18, 19 1:01

Post #486 of 531 (16760 views)

He still hasn’t provided any photos of his test rig, wind tunnel, bike and rider setup, or a single one of the wheels tested.

He still believes the Flo lawyers letter is real.

He hasn’t provided any convincing evidence that previous steady state tunnel tests are actually invalid/inaccurate (which could probably be easily extracted from his data set)

Basically, nothing new to see here

I’m not saying that the testing or test method aren’t valid. Just that he has only argued the theory that current (steady) state testing is not representative, without confirming that through actual testing himself.

Last edited by: MattyK: Aug 18, 19 1:06

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [MattyK] [ In reply to ]

Aug 19, 19 9:35

Post #487 of 531 (16450 views)

MattyK wrote:

He still hasn’t provided any photos of his test rig, wind tunnel, bike and rider setup, or a single one of the wheels tested.

He still believes the Flo lawyers letter is real.

He hasn’t provided any convincing evidence that previous steady state tunnel tests are actually invalid/inaccurate (which could probably be easily extracted from his data set)

Basically, nothing new to see here

I’m not saying that the testing or test method aren’t valid. Just that he has only argued the theory that current (steady) state testing is not representative, without confirming that through actual testing himself.

Agreed, nothing new here apart from instead of responding to tough questions in an immediate fashion he waits 12 months.

Rider on variability? Don’t worry we had a pressure wake for that!

Error bars? You guys are idiots, we have AERO SPACE ALGORITHMS!!!!!

Speaking of idiots and morons he has updated his list:

Specialized
Ceramic Speed
Xavier at Aero Coach
People on forums
Any business with a marketing department

Maurice

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]

Aug 19, 19 11:35

Post #488 of 531 (16376 views)

Nazgul350r wrote:

HA, I wish I could watch that, I will miss it. I hope the comments are enabled on the live stream.

Speaking of comments...how ironic is it that the first youtube comment is from our buddy Dan Sotelo (the wheel balance evangelist) telling Hambini that his testing doesn't take into account the aero affects of wheel imbalance? The irony is rich! LOL...

I actually endured watching it yesterday. Here's a couple of observations:
- The phrase "lots of hand-waving" kept popping into my head
- He admits his drag plots are in the wind axis, and not the body axis of the vehicle...does that mean his results ignore the contribution of any lift in the direction of travel? That would be a big faux pas...
- He claims they now use a pressure rake behind the rider and "edit" that out...I'm not buying it.
- He also mentions that he can calculate the expected drag just based on rim section measurements...and that he's got "grad students" working on it and can make the "measurements" in ~4 minutes. Is he really doing the tests or just making calculations?
- Still no example of an application to a real world prediction and how his data "helps"

edit: - He seems to focus on tire leading aerodynamics and ignore the rim leading contribution.

Nothing surprising though...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Last edited by: Tom A.: Aug 19, 19 12:17

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Aug 20, 19 12:39

Post #489 of 531 (16091 views)

Tom A. wrote:

Nazgul350r wrote:

HA, I wish I could watch that, I will miss it. I hope the comments are enabled on the live stream.

Speaking of comments...how ironic is it that the first youtube comment is from our buddy Dan Sotelo (the wheel balance evangelist) telling Hambini that his testing doesn't take into account the aero affects of wheel imbalance? The irony is rich! LOL...

I actually endured watching it yesterday. Here's a couple of observations:
- The phrase "lots of hand-waving" kept popping into my head
- He admits his drag plots are in the wind axis, and not the body axis of the vehicle...does that mean his results ignore the contribution of any lift in the direction of travel? That would be a big faux pas...
- He claims they now use a pressure rake behind the rider and "edit" that out...I'm not buying it.
- He also mentions that he can calculate the expected drag just based on rim section measurements...and that he's got "grad students" working on it and can make the "measurements" in ~4 minutes. Is he really doing the tests or just making calculations?
- Still no example of an application to a real world prediction and how his data "helps"

edit: - He seems to focus on tire leading aerodynamics and ignore the rim leading contribution.

Nothing surprising though...

This is a genuine question and not sarcasm but are you really that naive and ignorant that things in Europe get done slightly differently - ie grad schemes etc? use of company resources for further projects? 6 weeks of holiday etc...

I thought you were pulling my leg previously but I sincerely don't think you understand how things in the Aerospace world work.

HELLO HAMBINI FANS!!!

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hambini] [ In reply to ]

Aug 20, 19 13:51

Post #490 of 531 (16020 views)

hambini wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

Nazgul350r wrote:

HA, I wish I could watch that, I will miss it. I hope the comments are enabled on the live stream.

Speaking of comments...how ironic is it that the first youtube comment is from our buddy Dan Sotelo (the wheel balance evangelist) telling Hambini that his testing doesn't take into account the aero affects of wheel imbalance? The irony is rich! LOL...

I actually endured watching it yesterday. Here's a couple of observations:
- The phrase "lots of hand-waving" kept popping into my head
- He admits his drag plots are in the wind axis, and not the body axis of the vehicle...does that mean his results ignore the contribution of any lift in the direction of travel? That would be a big faux pas...
- He claims they now use a pressure rake behind the rider and "edit" that out...I'm not buying it.
- He also mentions that he can calculate the expected drag just based on rim section measurements...and that he's got "grad students" working on it and can make the "measurements" in ~4 minutes. Is he really doing the tests or just making calculations?
- Still no example of an application to a real world prediction and how his data "helps"

edit: - He seems to focus on tire leading aerodynamics and ignore the rim leading contribution.

Nothing surprising though...

This is a genuine question and not sarcasm but are you really that naive and ignorant that things in Europe get done slightly differently - ie grad schemes etc? use of company resources for further projects? 6 weeks of holiday etc...

I thought you were pulling my leg previously but I sincerely don't think you understand how things in the Aerospace world work.

Yeah...I guess a lot of these types of questions (on both sides) could be avoided if someone did a better job of explanation in the first place :-/

I think I'd just settle for an actual demonstration that the "data" presented allows for a better and more accurate prediction of real world performance than current methods. That shouldn't be so hard, should it?

Lastly...of all the things observed above, that's the ONLY part you're going to comment on? Ummm...OK. I guess the deflections and redirects continue. At least you're consistent.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Last edited by: Tom A.: Aug 20, 19 22:15

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hambini] [ In reply to ]

Aug 20, 19 14:20

Post #491 of 531 (15962 views)

You stated that high hands are not faster in real world. Can you expand on that anymore?

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hambini] [ In reply to ]

Aug 20, 19 14:55

Post #492 of 531 (15921 views)

Hambini, feel free to point me any one of your 120 patents mentioned in your video............Seems I cannot find any.

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]

Aug 20, 19 15:04

Post #493 of 531 (15902 views)

Nazgul350r wrote:

You stated that high hands are not faster in real world. Can you expand on that anymore?

They are for me. But maybe I ride in a make believe world. lol

Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hambini] [ In reply to ]

Aug 20, 19 15:44

Post #494 of 531 (15857 views)

hambini wrote:

don't think you understand how things in the Aerospace world work.

Would you describe your public presentation of data and methods as consistent with how such presentation is done in the aerospace industry?

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 0:35

Post #495 of 531 (15716 views)

Tom A. wrote:

hambini wrote:

Tom A. wrote:

Nazgul350r wrote:

HA, I wish I could watch that, I will miss it. I hope the comments are enabled on the live stream.

Speaking of comments...how ironic is it that the first youtube comment is from our buddy Dan Sotelo (the wheel balance evangelist) telling Hambini that his testing doesn't take into account the aero affects of wheel imbalance? The irony is rich! LOL...

I actually endured watching it yesterday. Here's a couple of observations:
- The phrase "lots of hand-waving" kept popping into my head
- He admits his drag plots are in the wind axis, and not the body axis of the vehicle...does that mean his results ignore the contribution of any lift in the direction of travel? That would be a big faux pas...
- He claims they now use a pressure rake behind the rider and "edit" that out...I'm not buying it.
- He also mentions that he can calculate the expected drag just based on rim section measurements...and that he's got "grad students" working on it and can make the "measurements" in ~4 minutes. Is he really doing the tests or just making calculations?
- Still no example of an application to a real world prediction and how his data "helps"

edit: - He seems to focus on tire leading aerodynamics and ignore the rim leading contribution.

Nothing surprising though...

This is a genuine question and not sarcasm but are you really that naive and ignorant that things in Europe get done slightly differently - ie grad schemes etc? use of company resources for further projects? 6 weeks of holiday etc...

I thought you were pulling my leg previously but I sincerely don't think you understand how things in the Aerospace world work.

Yeah...I guess a lot of these types of questions (on both sides) could be avoided if someone did a better job of explanation in the first place :-/

I think I'd just settle for an actual demonstration that the "data" presented allows for a better and more accurate prediction of real world performance than current methods. That shouldn't be so hard, should it?

Lastly...of all the things observed above, that's the ONLY part you're going to comment on? Ummm...OK. I guess the deflections and redirects continue. At least you're consistent.

Most of your post were statements such as I was moving my hands a lot, faux pas with terminology I did not understand or you were not buying something which I was not selling. I don't know what I was supposed to comment on.

In summary Tom,

Whatever I say or do is never going to be up to your standards. Thus I leave you to make your own conclusions and views.

Thanks

Hambini

HELLO HAMBINI FANS!!!

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hambini] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 1:00

Post #496 of 531 (15693 views)

How did you Measure rotational drag? Did you mean 20-30% of total drag (presume-ably of the wheel itself) is the equivalent to spin the wheel up or keep the wheel spinning?

Last edited by: bloodyshogun: Aug 21, 19 1:01

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [hambini] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 3:13

Post #497 of 531 (15618 views)

Still waiting for a link to those patents with your name on them

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 4:32

Post #498 of 531 (15575 views)

lyrrad wrote:

Still waiting for a link to those patents with your name on them

You won't.

Within EADS Patents are centrally handled by the IP department. It has been this way since China started mass counterfeiting.

HELLO HAMBINI FANS!!!

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 4:37

Post #499 of 531 (15567 views)

Nazgul350r wrote:

You stated that high hands are not faster in real world. Can you expand on that anymore?

The front wheel and tyre generate what is aerodynamically called a spike, You could take this akin to a bow wave on a boat. When you have the low hands, you make the spike angle defect around your head by generating turbulence which your body then rides into.

This is more evident in transient flow and it will not work for everybody because of their dimensions. I made my point on a general population.

HELLO HAMBINI FANS!!!

Last edited by: hambini: Aug 21, 19 4:59

Re: Updated: A Comprehensive (But Controversial) Wind Tunnel Wheel Shootout [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]

Aug 21, 19 4:40

Post #500 of 531 (15563 views)

bloodyshogun wrote:

How did you Measure rotational drag? Did you mean 20-30% of total drag (presume-ably of the wheel itself) is the equivalent to spin the wheel up or keep the wheel spinning?

It's the power required to keep the wheel spinning not to accelerate the wheel(s).

This is done by spinning the wheels up and measuring how much power you need to keep them spinning at a given speed.

HELLO HAMBINI FANS!!!

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