the difference between you, an "amateur", an a pro, is not your chassis. it's your engine. your fitter has the equipment you need to do this experiment. it would take 5 minutes to set that bike up with the pade 30mm or 40mm further forward, the saddle maybe 20mm or so further forward (or not, it looks pretty steep), and the pads 40mm or so lower. (maybe with the armrest pads 10cm or so lower than the saddle). and if you did that you still wouldn't have a "pro" position but it would be close.

ride that for 4 minutes. ride the position she has you in for 4 minutes. ride them both at a high power (maybe 200 watts). decide which you like better. buy the bike based on the position you intend to ride.

look, if i ask you to perform a bench press, do you do it differently because you're an amateur than a professional body builder? i doubt it. the best way to perform a bench press, the most efficient way, is the same whether you're pressing 150lb or 450lb, is it not?

the pro position is not an uncomfortable position. it's the opposite. it's the most efficient way to get through 56 or 112 miles. furthermore, the QR you want to buy is designed for that position. so go get fitted in that position, and report back whether you were comfortable and powerful in that position. and then let's prescribe a bike.

also, alert your fitter that we have a bike fit workshop upcoming november 6 thru 10. we'd love to host her and she and i can debate and talk and share and perhaps we'd both be the better for it.

these positions are not radical or aggressive. they're typical, powerful and comfortable. i would love to see a photo of you on your fitter's fit bike in a position that looks like this, and then here from you if you found this too extreme. if so, then work back from it. move the saddle and pads back 1cm and the pads up 1cm. and then again. until you find a really comfortable, powerful position.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

^ 170mm crank length during the fit

And Dan- I'm going to do exactly as you prescribe here. It makes a ton of sense. At the very least I'd like to try riding in that more "pro" or aero position for a period to see how it feels. I may even buy a second fit from one of your approved fitters I reached out to, just for the peace of mind knowing my setup isn't somehow holding me back over 112.

PM me where you live and i'll see if i can help you narrow down your choice of fitters.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Your fitter should have tested cranks lengths in the 180mm to 150mm range.

Ian,

I had created the other thread regarding the purchase of a bike for tall triathletes. You asked me to post my measurements here. My bike fit data is in another location, so I am posting based on measurements. (I have my P5, so I can add further measurements as well).

Height 6'5"
Inseam 36" (height comes more from my legs than my upper body)

Existing Bike: 2014 Cervelo P5 (current fit is slightly aggressive)
Size: 61
Stack: Around 580mm
Saddlebar Height (bar to mid-point of the top of the saddle): Around 310mm
Pad Y: Around 748mm
Pad X: Around 472mm
Aerobars are horizontal\

A photo of my P5 is attached.

Sean

jtulls,
I will take the road bike seat height and tweak a bit to aniticpate your tri position but I think you true, triathlon Pad Y is around 630 and your Pad X is ~455. You're gonna ride a lot lower and longer on a true tri bike - for lots of reasons not the least of which is that your seat angle on the road bike is ~73deg and on the tri bike it'll be more like 80deg.

The right PR5 is size 52 w/ 90mm stem in the -17deg position with 10mm of spacer under the stem and 10mm aerobar pedestal and pads pretty much dead center in the range.

The right PR6 is size 52 w/ 90mm stem with the mid bar clamp (it's like a clam shell and for you: one half on top of base bar, one half below base bar), 20mm of aerobar pedestal, and arm pad bracket rearward and arm rest in middle hole.

The right X-PR is size 52 with the PD 1/17 stem in size 110 in the -17deg position with 10mm of spacer under stem, 20mm of aerobar pedestal, pad set one hole back towards you from center.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Quick update on my end. I got refitted based on the advice above, with a different fitter. New report is attached. I'm surprised how different my measurements were from the first fitting, but my position definitely feels more aggressive like this. My new Arm Pad Stack BB is 725mm (previously 766mm), and new Arm Pad Reach BB is 463mm (prev. 430mm). Again I'm 6'1", roughly 33" pants inseam.

For an X-PR config my new fitter recommends the 58.5cm frame, 165mm crank, QR Aero Stem, and the upgraded bar extensions (PD Wing 20C+ Race/Ergo+ 35SLC). The fit chart from QR for this setup is below.

I'd love feedback on this configuration and my new measurements. Dan I know you initially advised against a 58.5 frame; curious if this changes your perspective or not? I'd be just off the chart on a 56cm frame according to these #s. 56cm would presumably work with a different stem, but I think I prefer the QR Aero Stem if the larger frame will fit me.

Many thanks again for the help!

-Jon

 
bikeberkbike,

I kind let this set for a bit since Dan jumped in with an answer. I want to expand on some things.... Here's an aritcle that Dan wrote about coordinates and where people ride https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ld_Example_6852.html take a sec to plot your 766/430 on there and see where you are in relation to others.

You're a perfectly normal, fit person. Why are you litterly off the chart? The answer is that the fitter didn't explore a place longer and lower, the place where you belong. You yourself say "would it even be a well fitting bike at a 58.5 and... a positive stem". The answer is... sure, it's a great option for an abnormal person who has such freakishly long legs for their height that they are only known as "Stilts"... for a person who was handcuffed by police, locked into a cop car that was then parked on some railroad tracks, and then hit by a train (that story was nuts!) and ended up with 5 fused vertebrea...for a person who was conceived by parents drinking from the well in the neighborhood the Erin Brockovich famous.

If you wrote in and just said: "I'm 6'1" what bike is right QR X-PR for me?". I probalby would have come back with: your Pad Y is roughly 670 and Pad X is ~480. Those are conservative numbers (ie not too "agressive", middle of the road, safe, doable). And with those numbers the right X-PR for you would be a 56cm bike with a 110 stem in the negative 17 degree position with 10mm of spacer under the stem and 20mm of arm pad pedestal, and pads offset -5.50 (which roughly means 1 hole back of center). Here's the good news about that bike purchase - if you needed the pads to go longer for comfort you could get 36mm more, if you needed pads to come closer for comfort you could get 30mm, if you need the pad to go up for comfort you could get 70mm up and lower you can go 30mm down. That's a lot of up/down/fore/aft to explore for perfection - and all with the same frame, same stem.

If you want to confirm this I'd ask that you go back to the fitter (insist that your return visit is no-charge by they way because the 766/430 position is not it). Have them put the pads at 670/480 and then play with 5-10mm longer/short/lower/higer from there and find a spot that feels good. They don't even need to wire you up with the harness - let's take the numbers out of the fit process now and you can take control of the fit based on what feels better. That would confirm my guesses. While you're there have 'em drop the crank length down to 165 - ride for a bit. Then try 160s and see what you like best.

Ian

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Ian,

Thank you! I am meeting with a fitter next week who should be able to help with the purchase. Would the same setup work with the V-PR? The bike also has a 58.5 size, though I don't know if there are other differences.

Sean

Sean,
You're going to see your fitter to confirm all this but as of right now your Pad Y of 748 can't be met with the V-PR (the max is 728-730). If... and I love this if, this posibility of you coming into my fit studio and putting 165mm cranks on the dynamic fit bike, taking you through a process that I'm guiding and your VERY involved in and we make the seat angle steeper, you love it and the front end goes out and down. Then seat angle gets steeper again, you love it - front end goes out and down. We keep this up a few more times 'til you say "nope, this is less comfortable or cadence drops or power lessens" And BOOM, we have a Pad Y of 718 and a Pad X of anyting from 470 to 520. I hope this is the service you get at your fitter.


If your Pad Y comes into view on thsi bike then you've got to make a choioce: with the V-PR the big choice will be the Vision Pro aerboars or the TFA aerobars. The TFA's have a ton of adjustability, super easy to get perfect. The Pro are "cooler" looking but come in only 3 sizes and you gotta nail those. I'm not gonna try and guess here especialy since you're headed to see a fitter in the flesh as apposed me at my keyboard.


Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thanks for the guidance, Ian - just clicked order on a PR5!

Good afternoon, I'm currently looking at a QR PRFiveDisc. I'm 177.5 cm tall with an inseam of 79 cm (barefoot with book placed in crotch). The QR website puts me at either a 52 or 54, my past road bikes have been 54's but from reading reviews it seems the 52 may be better? Can you give me some guidance, thanks.

Ray_Ripley,
I think your Pad Y is roughly 645 and your Pad X if 465 - you're sorta leggy for your height and that's probalby where you ride or very close to where you ride. Yes could could fit on a 52 but I think the PRfive in a size 54 is better.

54...PRfive with a 90mm stem in the -17 degree position with 10mm of spacer under the stem and 5mm of arm pad pedestal. Then the pads would be set dead center or one hole fore/aft of center. That puts you in a nice, middle spot with some range to take the front end up/down/fore/aft to find your exact spot.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Ianpeace, Thnak you very much for the great information and fast response. I took the inseam measurement according to Canyon's website. I stood against a wall and put a book between my legs and measure from the floor to the top of the book, is that correct for inseam measurement? I'm going to order the PR5 soon. Thanks again for your help.

You bet Ray - I think you're going to be perfect on that bike.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi Ian,

Would like to buy my first tribike and QR is on my shortlist, the XPR to be specific. I've been to a fitter and this is what he precribes:

My measurements:
length: 172 cm
inseam: 85 cm
Saddle height: 771 mm
Crank length: 165 mm
saddle setback: 24 mm
Pad reach (to back of pad): 430 mm
Pad stack: 635 mm

Thanks a lot !

Hi Ian,
Would like to order an xpr this week. I did ask about switching out the bars for the profile design 43 asc, which I was told could be done.
I’m 6’3 with coordinates of 662x454
Saddle height 809
XL?

SVxHR=CO,
I love your specificity and directness, thank you. I'm going to prescribe the frame size, the stem, and the pad location - the PD 43 asc is a great extension and will plug right into the bracket with ease and can be adjusted simply to match the fit as you like.

If you go with the X-PR and the Profile Design 1/Steventeen stem ... then you'd get a size 56 with the 90mm stem. The stem should be positioned in the -17 degree position. You'd need 10mm of spacer under the stem and 15mm of aerobar pedestal and pad off set of -6.25 (which roughly means - two holes closer to you than center mount). You cannot fit on the 58.5cm bike (the largest size) because the lowest the Pad Y will go on that bike is 665. You could fit on the 54cm bike (with 110stem, -17deg, +10mm spacer, +30mm pedestal) but I'm not 100% sure the seat height would meet you.

If you go with the X-PR and the QR Aero Stem.... then you'd get a size 56 with the 75mm stem, 10mm spacer, 15mm pedestal, arm rest off set -5.50 (which roughly means 3 holes foward of the maximum shortest the cockpit can go). Same issues with 58.5 and 54 as noted above.

Let me know if you have any further quesitons, Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi Ian,
Did you see my question above? Would love to pull the trigger with the current bf discounts.

Thanks!

Thanks for the quick reply! Do you know how much the pad stack can go with the 56? Just in case I lose some flexibility and can’t get as low in the future? Thanks again!

Good question... the max with the QR Aero Stem is 697mm (20mm of spacer & 40mm pedestal). The max with the PD 1/17 stem in the -17deg pos is 709mm (30mm spacer & 40mm pedestal) - or if you flip that stem to a +17deg you can stand on the pads to clean the leaves out of your rain gutters.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

 

Allthingsequal,
I'm so sorry I missed this, thank you for the reminder.

For the X-PR...you can fit on both the 52 and the 54. With the Profile Design 1/Seventeen stem the size should be the 54...with that stem in the 90mm length adn in the -17deg position, 5mm of spacer under the stem and another 5mm in aerobar pedestal. Then pads would be 1 hole forward of max back. If you wanted the QR Aero Stem then you should get the 52cm bike with the 75mm stem with 10mm of spacer and 30mm of aerobar pedestal, and pads off set -5.50 (which is ~2 holes foward of max back).

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Ian,

I am looking to purchase at QR XPR and am wondering the correct size. I am riding a 54 cm Cannondale Slice (2005 Aluminum), but I am worried it is too small because of how low the bars seem to have to be compared to my seat height (and my recent Trek experience see my post below), and back fatigue/pain (I have no back problems otherwise) at even an Olympic race, so I would rather fit based on my personal measurements. I don't fully trust fit coordinates as they are on the smaller frame.

Using the formula method, I am 176cm tall, my inseam is 86cm, and my seat height is 78 cm.

What is the QR size for me?

Thank you!

-Rob

1. FORMULA….If all you have to offer is your overall height, your inseam, and your saddle height – great, I’ll take it! With that I can get pretty darn close to your Pad Y and Pad X and prescribe the details from there.

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“It’s good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” - Ernest Hemingway

Ian,

And, one more thing. I purchased a size medium Trek Speed Concept (2022) (recommended by LBS for my size) and it was definitely too small. I had to sell it, so I am very weary of getting the correct size. Thank you.

-Rob

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“It’s good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” - Ernest Hemingway