Just to be clear...

Do you still need the Wahooligan App (that is now taken down) to use the PM as control over the KICKR?

Hi Nate,

That is correct and how I have it set up.

Check this test out under the .24 Kickr firmware update. The segment analysis in WKO shows the TR data (in red) a touch smoother than the raw Quarq data in yellow. I have TR set for 3s smoothing but the data going into WKO is 1s from the Quarq. End result of this comparison is a happy Kickr user (me). I trust this data and TR/Kickr session for my training. I feel a lot more confident using my own power meter now. I don't expect both to match up perfectly. As a friend and coach, who is big on using power meters, once told me, "what is recorded in your legs is far more important." :-)

Overall session



Interval Segment

Yes, as far as I can tell you need the Wahooligan app. I have tried briefly to start a workout without prompting the ios Wahooligan app first and it did not pick up my Quarq. I had to stop the workout and initiate the app, look for the green icon and it started relaying the Quarq power to control the Kickr and TR workout. I might be wrong, but that is what I have experience so far. At one moment while I had the TR workout going with the Quarq I jumped off the bike to setup the fans and other things it was enough time for my Quarq to go to sleep. When I started spinning again power wasn't showing on the TR laptop display. I had to reopen the Wahooligan app and check for the green icon. When it turned green again the TR laptop display for Quarq power started. So it seems to me that the Wahooligan app is necessary.

Maybe others can chime in if they have experienced something different.

OK... I guess I need to wait until Wahooligan is available again.

Cool! I think the difference is how often data is recorded. In our app, we're sampling every second and recording. The Garmin could be recording every update. Once we start to record outdoor rides we're going to record 100% of the ANT data as we think that's very important for an analysis of an outside ride.

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CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

Slightly different experience here. Using Vectors, Kickr and TR. Kickr beta SW .24 I got hold of the Wahooligan app before they pulled it. Used the Wohooligan app to link my Vectors to the Kickr using their ANT+ ID, selected the option to control the Kickr using an external PM, got the green light then shut down the app and turned off the phone. Since then I haven't turned that phone back on near the Kickr or opened the app. My Kickr seems to have "learned" my Vectors and finds them every time I get on the bike and start riding. For me there is no need to have the app open and running and I don't have to do any additional set up before doing a workout - I just get on and ride.

On small quirk I have noticed is that when I first start a TR workout I get a few seconds of 30 - 40W over target before it straightens itself out, I take this to represent the "usual" Kickr over read which requires a few seconds for the feedback loop to bring into line. I might give the belt tension trick a go to see if I can bring the Vectors and Kickr closer together to reduce this initial blip.

Following the advice posted by others I've got "Use power from electronic trainer" deselected, TR is mirroring my Edge/Vector output very closely. I've opted to turn on the smoothing in TR as the power from the Vectors is a little choppy, I think this is pretty normal for power measured at the pedals. This helps a lot, not the laser straight lines I used to get from Kickr power but at least the power values are correct now.

Haven't given .26 a go yet, would like to hear the experience of a few others before I do. Working on an "If it ain't broke...." principle at the moment!

Jon

Maybe I missed this elsewhere, but is TR going to be updated to broadcast back to the KICKR and control the resistance once the firmware is out of beta?

Yes. We use the Wahoo iOS library which just had a beta release in it. Once it hits production we'll have to go through it and regression test everything we've built. As long as that goes smooth we can call the code to have the Kickr pick up the ANT+ PM data.

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CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

Does that mean you will only be able to control the KICKR when running iOS versions of TR?

I'll give it another try this evening without the app turned on and see what happens. It would be nice to cut out another step in the setup process.

Sorry, I should have specified.

Once the spec is finalized we can do the same for Mac and PC. On PC, we have our own custom implementation and we should be able to update it fairly quickly.

On Mac, we use the Wahoo lib, so we'll have to wait for them to do a Mac update.

As far as I know, you'll be able to set an ANT ID on your Kickr and it will remember it between sessions. So you'll be able to set an ANT ID via your phone then use the desktop app. I'm not absolutely sure if that's correct though so don't hold me to it :).

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CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast

Great. Thanks for the clarification. I am looking forward to the update.

Nate, that's how I've got my set up working at the moment. Set it up using the phone, then no more need for the phone - just using the desktop app, the Kickr remembers the Vectors.

Jon

It is working fine without the wahooligan app and .26 seems to be working well.

Sorry if I caused confusion. I was able to use the Quarq to control Kickr in TR workout without prompting the Wahooligan app. Makes me wonder if you have a friend that has the app on their phone they could initiate this for you using your sensor number and then you would not need the Wahooligan app on your phone after that point.

Someone asked me that question the other day and I wasn't sure how to answer. Maybe that is a possibility.

I can't see any reason why that wouldn't work. The app basically programs the PM ANT+ ID into the Kickr which it then remembers. No further need for the phone. Only issue I can think of is I'm not sure what happens if the Kickr is unplugged for any reason, haven't tried this but there may be a risk it could cause the Kickr to forget the link.

Jon

Now I just need a 'friend' in the area with the app :-) Hoping they wrap up the production version quickly as I missed out on the Beta.

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Non-Swimming Duathlete

From my side, I am controlling the kickr with my Srm and I need wahooligan app started to work fine.

So is this as simple as going into the wahoo fitness app and linking my stages?

And keeping the Wahoo app open while I'm using TR?

Unfortunately not as simple
It is simple if you have the Wahooligan app, which is not available at the moment. This is not the same app as the wahoo fitness app that most have.

You can find instructions at the start of the thread, but we don't know if they will simply the process in the final release so I am hesitant to advise anything else.
Who knows what they will do. They seem real content not talking to anyone about anything.

Of course not because all of us using power meters on our bikes in addition to the Kickr have revealed a major flaw in their $1k machinery. P2M is getting beat up relentlessly about their 'drifting' when in fact it probably has been the Kickr all along. They are marketing this like a 'new feature' instead of what it really is, fixing a major problem. They would be well-served to monitor these boards and respond like the other manufacturer reps have.

The discrepancy between my Quarq and Kickr is widening. I have my FTP 25 watts higher in TR (then on my Garmin), program the workouts in TR at the high-end of my power range for a given interval and then in the middle of a hard workout still have to bump the intensity to around 115%-118%.

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Non-Swimming Duathlete

Of course not because all of us using power meters on our bikes in addition to the Kickr have revealed a major flaw in their $1k machinery. P2M is getting beat up relentlessly about their 'drifting' when in fact it probably has been the Kickr all along. They are marketing this like a 'new feature' instead of what it really is, fixing a major problem. They would be well-served to monitor these boards and respond like the other manufacturer reps have.

The discrepancy between my Quarq and Kickr is widening. I have my FTP 25 watts higher in TR (then on my Garmin), program the workouts in TR at the high-end of my power range for a given interval and then in the middle of a hard workout still have to bump the intensity to around 115%-118%.[/quote]
Where have they "marketed" this as anything? It's pretty clear from the one intervention in this thread by a representative of Wahoo that they were trying to work on this quietly with a small private beta. That's not an unheard of approach in the tech world. Perhaps they're not participating in this thread because, you know, they are spending their time trying to fix the problem. I'm not here to be a Wahoo fanboy, but maybe a couple weeks more of patience is warranted. That's when they've said that they hope to have the public release. If it doesn't come in a reasonable time and they don't explain why, then I'll join in your unhappiness.

FWIW, I had very good luck with the .26 version of the beta in a workout this morning. Almost identical data from my Quarq and from the Kickr. I'm still struggling to get it to work consistently, but when it works, it works very well.

Where have they "marketed" this as anything? It's pretty clear from the one intervention in this thread by a representative of Wahoo that they were trying to work on this quietly with a small private beta. That's not an unheard of approach in the tech world. Perhaps they're not participating in this thread because, you know, they are spending their time trying to fix the problem. I'm not here to be a Wahoo fanboy, but maybe a couple weeks more of patience is warranted. That's when they've said that they hope to have the public release. If it doesn't come in a reasonable time and they don't explain why, then I'll join in your unhappiness.

FWIW, I had very good luck with the .26 version of the beta in a workout this morning. Almost identical data from my Quarq and from the Kickr. I'm still struggling to get it to work consistently, but when it works, it works very well.[/quote]
I'm not bashing Wahoo, but when Wahoo directly calls it a "feature" in a communication, that's marketing. And I am glad that they are finally owning up to this and diligently working on developing a solution. Those with the Beta app (as you) are showing good results so it's promising. I totally understand why the app was pulled due to restrictions of being part of the Apple AppStore. Just a little communication either here or on their blog/site would be helpful. Cervelo, TrainerRoad, Quarq and others all find time and it's very helpful and builds customer loyalty.

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Non-Swimming Duathlete

My Kickr is reading high by 15 watts compared to my Quarq Elsa RS. E.g. Garmin synced to the Quarq gives 310 watts, TrainerRoad controlling the Kickr shows 325 watts at the same time. I take it from the above instructions that I want to turn the 2.5mm screw counter-clockwise to lower the Kickr reading compared to the Quarq?

I'm looking forward to the public release of the firmware update, but I'd also like my Kickr to give a reasonably consistent readout compared to my Quarq so I can ride a non-Quarq bike if need be and get the same workout and consistent power readouts.

I might wait until Tour of Sufflerlandria is over and play with the belt tension a bit and see what results I get.

Not fixing, masking it... Another thing, the sensor for temperature compensation was never enabled in the firmware to do corrections for drift.