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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [vikingmd] [ In reply to ]
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"My Garmin was reading off as well. Turned out that if I turned off the auto zero and did a manual calibration it matched perfectly. The problem wasn't with my KICKR it was with the Garmin." from vikingmd

Uhm, I think that that I would know if my Garmin was off.............and it is not.
Last edited by: ccassidy: Mar 11, 15 9:39
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
Any more info from people who are using the new feature??

Got my Kickr back from Wahoo. They had to replace the strain gauge and top cap. They calibrated the unit and performed a spin down. I unboxed it, decided to leave as is and started a TR workout. It was easily 40-50w off from my Quarq. 20 minutes in did a spindown and now it was about 20w off. Next day calibrated the Quarq, no spindown, ran the Beta s/w and firmware and everything has been in sync through some both easy and hard/long (2.5 hrs +) workouts.

--------------------------------------------------
Non-Swimming Duathlete
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [rbrnut] [ In reply to ]
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so you sent it back and it STILL came back 40 watts off? Wow.

I really think this is all user error, except Wahoo is not telling us how to operate our systems. I had a 40w delta, and then somehow thru some random series of calibrating SRM and KICKR spindowns and leaving KICKR plugged in all the time, they are now tracking like yours. I have not resorted to the Wahooligan app though.

E

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [rbrnut] [ In reply to ]
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rbrnut wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
Any more info from people who are using the new feature??


Got my Kickr back from Wahoo. They had to replace the strain gauge and top cap. They calibrated the unit and performed a spin down. I unboxed it, decided to leave as is and started a TR workout. It was easily 40-50w off from my Quarq. 20 minutes in did a spindown and now it was about 20w off. Next day calibrated the Quarq, no spindown, ran the Beta s/w and firmware and everything has been in sync through some both easy and hard/long (2.5 hrs +) workouts.

So... you are using the your Quarq to control the KICKR now??

I must say... Wahoo is really a mess. You send it back... and it is still way off!! They obviously have no way to fix their product.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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After you applied Krispy fix, did you tighten the 5mm bolt again and put the cover back on? I applied the fix yesterday and I'm extremely happy with the results, but I kinda didn't do these things in fear that I'll still have to adjust it later, and toward the very end of my workout today (80mins) I started hearing a weird sound reproducible by on a pedal revolution - I think it's coming from Kickr. I hope that tightening the 5mm bolt would help, but wondering what others did and whether they heard something odd at all. Thanks!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]
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friskyDingo wrote:
After you applied Krispy fix, did you tighten the 5mm bolt again and put the cover back on? I applied the fix yesterday and I'm extremely happy with the results, but I kinda didn't do these things in fear that I'll still have to adjust it later, and toward the very end of my workout today (80mins) I started hearing a weird sound reproducible by on a pedal revolution - I think it's coming from Kickr. I hope that tightening the 5mm bolt would help, but wondering what others did and whether they heard something odd at all. Thanks!

Yes... applied fix... tightened down 5mm hex... put cover on.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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My discussions with Wahoo essentially amounted to them saying there's going to be a variance. It what it is.

But recognized variance is 2-3%. 10-20% is not acceptable. And neither is requiring me to have another crank based PM to make it work (though I do have one).

I think they're in over their head in trying to plug the leaks. If there was a route to correct the heart of the issue they wouldn't be going down the external PM path.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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I've had my KICKR for about a week now. I bought it even though I had been monitoring this thread pretty much since it began, so I knew what I was getting into. I also have a power meter (p2m) and I use TrainerRoad. My setup it is totally usable; I do erg workouts, with the resistance controlled by the KICKR pm, but I use my p2m to log the power. There is a huge discrepancy between my p2m and the KICKR's pm which I adjust for by ratcheting up the % on TrainerRoad. I had to set TR to +9% this morning for my intervals to work at 340W. I've done a few spin downs but it seems to have very little effect. I am going to try to get my p2m to be used to control the resistance at some point.

In any case, the hardware seems really good. I'm not experiencing any drift -- once I have the TR % set right, it is very repeatable. I just feel sorry for all the people who bought the KICKR instead of buying a PM -- they have no idea what power they are really pushing.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [H. Legs] [ In reply to ]
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Spot on. That's exactly what I was doing with TR until I got the new firmware/app. But you are right, without a power meter you are really guessing during your workouts. If it was just off, then you could argue that without a PM, just use the Wahoo number everyday and measure yourself against that. But as we've seen, that number isn't constant/accurate as late into workouts there appears to be significant drift.

--------------------------------------------------
Non-Swimming Duathlete
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [rbrnut] [ In reply to ]
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For those using their crank-based PM to control the KICKR's wattage, how is the "feel" when you vary cadence in ERG mode? Does it seem to take the KICKR longer to "catch-up" (i.e. reducing torque required when you increase your cadence and vice versa)? What about when you are in the other modes?

I would speculate that if you are doing very steady efforts like Sweet Spot or FTP type efforts, that would not challenge the PM/KICKR too much and the feel would be relatively "smooth." But if you are varying efforts, does there seem to be additional "lag" when using the PM to control the KICKR (above the lag that is already in the KICKR)?

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
For those using their crank-based PM to control the KICKR's wattage, how is the "feel" when you vary cadence in ERG mode? Does it seem to take the KICKR longer to "catch-up" (i.e. reducing torque required when you increase your cadence and vice versa)? What about when you are in the other modes?

I would speculate that if you are doing very steady efforts like Sweet Spot or FTP type efforts, that would not challenge the PM/KICKR too much and the feel would be relatively "smooth." But if you are varying efforts, does there seem to be additional "lag" when using the PM to control the KICKR (above the lag that is already in the KICKR)?

No problem for me with both an SRM KICKR combo and a P2Max KICKR combo. I frequently will do FTP or Sweet Spot efforts but with multiple cadence changes. I also do intervals as short as 20 seconds.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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Depends on how much you vary it...
If I'm doing vo2 intervals and I'm going from 55% FTP to 115% it takes about 10 seconds before the p2m (garmin) reads the same # of watts as the target for the interval. My garmin is configured to show 3s average so the 10 seconds delay could be less. I'm also spinning at >100rpm during the vo2 intervals from my normal 90rpm.

If you're just changing cadence slightly there's a 2-5 seconds delay before you see the kickr catch up with it. It's actually pretty OK, you don't want the delay any shorter because then you'll have the kickr constantly put on the brakes which would be annoying.
Last edited by: sp1ke: Mar 11, 15 12:50
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [H. Legs] [ In reply to ]
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H. Legs wrote:
I've had my KICKR for about a week now. I bought it even though I had been monitoring this thread pretty much since it began, so I knew what I was getting into. I also have a power meter (p2m) and I use TrainerRoad. My setup it is totally usable; I do erg workouts, with the resistance controlled by the KICKR pm, but I use my p2m to log the power. There is a huge discrepancy between my p2m and the KICKR's pm which I adjust for by ratcheting up the % on TrainerRoad. I had to set TR to +9% this morning for my intervals to work at 340W. I've done a few spin downs but it seems to have very little effect. I am going to try to get my p2m to be used to control the resistance at some point.

In any case, the hardware seems really good. I'm not experiencing any drift -- once I have the TR % set right, it is very repeatable. I just feel sorry for all the people who bought the KICKR instead of buying a PM -- they have no idea what power they are really pushing.

I have a Power2Max and use the App and the beta software without issues.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Max Daddy] [ In reply to ]
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You lot need to stop fooling around. Cognitive dissonance can be a real bitch. the Kickr is really a broken product. Stop using your PM to "fix" it. Get on Wahoo's arse to fix your Kickr!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [JRA] [ In reply to ]
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JRA wrote:
You lot need to stop fooling around. Cognitive dissonance can be a real bitch. the Kickr is really a broken product. Stop using your PM to "fix" it. Get on Wahoo's arse to fix your Kickr!

I am not sure if you are trying to be funny or not... but read this>>>Wahoo SUCKS!!!!

We are trying to get the KICKR fixed!! I have called and Emailed several times... and they clearly do not have a good answer for us,

Interestingly... I went to my training partners house on Sunday to "fix" his KICKR. He kept insisting that his was OK based on his RPE and HR. We put his other bike on the KICKR so his SRM could measure his power.

His KICKR was SPOT ON!!!! I was blown away...

So... some KICKR's are accurate... but NOT MINE!!!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [vikingmd] [ In reply to ]
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vikingmd wrote:
refthimos wrote:
For those using their crank-based PM to control the KICKR's wattage, how is the "feel" when you vary cadence in ERG mode? Does it seem to take the KICKR longer to "catch-up" (i.e. reducing torque required when you increase your cadence and vice versa)? What about when you are in the other modes?

I would speculate that if you are doing very steady efforts like Sweet Spot or FTP type efforts, that would not challenge the PM/KICKR too much and the feel would be relatively "smooth." But if you are varying efforts, does there seem to be additional "lag" when using the PM to control the KICKR (above the lag that is already in the KICKR)?


No problem for me with both an SRM KICKR combo and a P2Max KICKR combo. I frequently will do FTP or Sweet Spot efforts but with multiple cadence changes. I also do intervals as short as 20 seconds.


Just out of curiosity... Why are using the App?? On the previous page you intimated that KICKR was accurate, but the Garmin was off (but you fixed it by changing some settings).
Last edited by: Donzo98: Mar 11, 15 13:35
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
JRA wrote:
You lot need to stop fooling around. Cognitive dissonance can be a real bitch. the Kickr is really a broken product. Stop using your PM to "fix" it. Get on Wahoo's arse to fix your Kickr!


I am not sure if you are trying to be funny or not... but read this>>>Wahoo SUCKS!!!!

We are trying to get the KICKR fixed!! I have called and Emailed several times... and they clearly do not have a good answer for us,

Interestingly... I went to my training partners house on Sunday to "fix" his KICKR. He kept insisting that his was OK based on his RPE and HR. We put his other bike on the KICKR so his SRM could measure his power.

His KICKR was SPOT ON!!!! I was blown away...

So... some KICKR's are accurate... but NOT MINE!!!

I believe that my Kickr is accurate based on RPE and HR. Eventually, I'll throw my other bike on there and compare. But right now, I feel that I'm getting in some good training without monkeying around with the unit..

Go ahead and check my Strava or Trainerroad page. It seems to be working for me.

What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
vikingmd wrote:
refthimos wrote:
For those using their crank-based PM to control the KICKR's wattage, how is the "feel" when you vary cadence in ERG mode? Does it seem to take the KICKR longer to "catch-up" (i.e. reducing torque required when you increase your cadence and vice versa)? What about when you are in the other modes?

I would speculate that if you are doing very steady efforts like Sweet Spot or FTP type efforts, that would not challenge the PM/KICKR too much and the feel would be relatively "smooth." But if you are varying efforts, does there seem to be additional "lag" when using the PM to control the KICKR (above the lag that is already in the KICKR)?


No problem for me with both an SRM KICKR combo and a P2Max KICKR combo. I frequently will do FTP or Sweet Spot efforts but with multiple cadence changes. I also do intervals as short as 20 seconds.


Just out of curiosity... Why are using the App?? On the previous page you intimated that KICKR was accurate, but the Garmin was off (but you fixed it by changing some settings).

I always use my Garmin 920xt to record from my crank based power meter. That way I know that the power source that I am uploading to training peaks is what I will be racing with and training outside with. Plus because I can upload the workout wirelessly with the Garmin as soon as I finish it removes any steps of manually uploading a TCX file at a later time.

But that is just the data on the output, I still need to control the resistance to obtain the goal wattage. I use the following with my KICKR to control resistance- Trainer Road, the Wahooligan App, Zwift. It depends on what my training requires for the day and what my mood is. If my coach gives me specific interval sets, I tend to build the workouts in the Trainer Road workout creator and then ride them on trainer road. If it is just a general guide with time and intensity I will ride Zwift or build it in Trainer Road. If I am in the mood for intensity and need some entertainment, I will ride a Sufferfest with Trainer Road. etc, etc.

I have used the app to make sure that the link between my power meters and my KICKR is functioning as anticipated.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Carlton Bale] [ In reply to ]
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Carlton Bale wrote:
Thanks to FeltRider and a couple of other sources, I finally got my setup working!

Thanks for filling in the missing details from my blog post with your instruction bullet points. Glad to hear you got it working.

Mine continues to work pretty good as shown from a TR workout last night with 4 x 8's.

Garmin Edge has data from the Quarq
TrainerRoad also from the Quarq matching pretty good as it should
Kickr controlled in ERG mode from TR is smoothed compared to Quarq's variability but having the end total metrics matching up as close as this I am happier.


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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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When was his purchased ?

Donzo98 wrote:
JRA wrote:
You lot need to stop fooling around. Cognitive dissonance can be a real bitch. the Kickr is really a broken product. Stop using your PM to "fix" it. Get on Wahoo's arse to fix your Kickr!

I am not sure if you are trying to be funny or not... but read this>>>Wahoo SUCKS!!!!

We are trying to get the KICKR fixed!! I have called and Emailed several times... and they clearly do not have a good answer for us,

Interestingly... I went to my training partners house on Sunday to "fix" his KICKR. He kept insisting that his was OK based on his RPE and HR. We put his other bike on the KICKR so his SRM could measure his power.

His KICKR was SPOT ON!!!! I was blown away...

So... some KICKR's are accurate... but NOT MINE!!!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [lennyk] [ In reply to ]
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December 2013.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider wrote:
Carlton Bale wrote:
Thanks to FeltRider and a couple of other sources, I finally got my setup working!


Thanks for filling in the missing details from my blog post with your instruction bullet points. Glad to hear you got it working.

Mine continues to work pretty good as shown from a TR workout last night with 4 x 8's.

Garmin Edge has data from the Quarq
TrainerRoad also from the Quarq matching pretty good as it should
Kickr controlled in ERG mode from TR is smoothed compared to Quarq's variability but having the end total metrics matching up as close as this I am happier.



I am happy to say mine is now working well too...

Tonight's workout had my 15 minute intervals showing actual power was within 1-2 watts of target power.
Last edited by: Donzo98: Mar 11, 15 18:23
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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is anybody here using the app on ipad ?

I don't have an iphone but can borrow an ipad to see if I can get it to set the kickr.

Do you need to fire up the wahoo app each time when using trainerroad ?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [lennyk] [ In reply to ]
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I finally figured out how to find and reflash the beta firmwares in the Android version of Wahoo Utility.

Only problem was when I opened the newly updated Wahoo Fitness app there was no external power meter Ant ID settings that I could find. It seems the Android app is the running behind on features compared to the iOS version, unless there is a 10 hit combo required to enable access to this functionality that I don't know about.

Ended up playing with extending the spindown time a little, with a bit of extra pedalling during the spindown. Normal spindown is 16 secs and that results in a 17W over read offset compared to my vectors. Extending the spindown to 20 secs and it was out by a max of 2W during the whole hour of training, even when it went in excess of 300W.

Until I can borrow an iOS device I'll have to hope this accuracy stays for future workouts.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Carlton Bale] [ In reply to ]
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Carlton Bale wrote:
Thanks to FeltRider and a couple of other sources, I finally got my setup working! Very glad to eliminate the 40 watt mis-match between my Power2Max power meter and my KICKR.

FYI, here are the general steps. This is mostly outlined in the cycling addiction blog post, but a couple of details were missing.
  • The Wahoo Fitness iOS v5.5.0 app was released on March 9, but the KICKR public firmware is not out yet. Both are needed to enable this feature. However, you can load the beta firmware now and get it working while we wait for the public firmware release. These are the general steps I followed.
  • Use iOS Wahoo Utility, select KICKR
  • Use the "secret swipe" to display the beta firmware (quickly swipe from lightening bolt icon to happy face icon, quickly lift finger, then quickly swipe from happy face icon to lightening bolt icon. Swipe instruction video: http://ppst.co/1huMRbL )
  • Select and load firmware version 1.3.26
  • After firmware update completes, Unplug and replug power to the KICKR

  • Next go to the Wahoo Fitness App
  • Select sensors, KICKR
  • Enable "Control with ANT+ Power Meter" option
  • Enter the ANT+ id of your power meter (4- or 5-digit number printed on the power meter, or get it via PC/Mac using ANT+ dongle and the Trainer Road "Devices" screen.)

KICKR will now read the ANT+ Power Meter and use it to measure power output (instead of the frequently flawed internal resistance calculation that can be 20-40 watts off on some KICKRs.) Hope this helps everyone with KICKRs that inaccurately calculate power (like mine. . .)

I've followed these steps both yesterday and today. Re-installed the v5.5.0 app twice. Still getting the red dot.
PM is recording via my Garmin.
Wattage is still off.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk

The above poster is a physiologist employed FastTalkLabs. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of FastTalkLabs in any manner... unless they're good, then they count. http://www.FastTalkLabs.com
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