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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Sausagetail] [ In reply to ]
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I think we solved this mystery:




Sausagetail wrote:
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Sausagetail] [ In reply to ]
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Why is Velotron continually being brought into this thread? (I know for humor sake) :-)

I can understand comparing the Kickr to the Computrainer, but a Velotron trainer that the website currently states as $9,950 with a frame is not an equal comparison to a $1,000 trainer. I will agree that for the $1K+ that I spent I don't feel as if I got all the qualities (yet) for what I paid. Most of the attributes of the Kickr are working well for me and I suspect for many. It has a great feel to it compared to other trainers I have used. I love that I can use my laptop or phone to control it. I really like the direct drive because I was previously using a PT G3 wheel with my best tire getting additional trainer wear. It works well with TrainerRoad in ERG. I would have liked the power to be better, but for me (selfish I know) the opportunity to use my own power meter (accurate or not) was a really good move by Wahoo - IMO. The Quarq / Kickr / TrainerRoad combination is working so well that I am personally happy. I just hope that everyone else can get the same satisfaction and if not I hope they can return it and get their money back and get something that will progress their training.

I still have hope that either Wahoo will get this sorted out in time or someone here will come up with a decent setup process kind of like those who have used Computrainers for a long time can generally give good setup advice to get it dialed in, such as, press on force, spindown, warm up time and other pre workout setup tips.

I will post again if I see, hear or experience little nuances that may get the Kickr dialed in better. Even though I have been using the beta now for a few weeks, I get excited each time my phone shows that I have an app update hoping that it is Wahoo. This morning I saw a Wahoo app update available, but it did not have the beta applied. It just said big things were coming in the notes.
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Feb 11, 15 4:20
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider wrote:
Why is Velotron continually being brought into this thread? (I know for humor sake) :-)

I can understand comparing the Kickr to the Computrainer, but a Velotron trainer that the website currently states as $9,950 with a frame is not an equal comparison to a $1,000 trainer. I will agree that for the $1K+ that I spent I don't feel as if I got all the qualities (yet) for what I paid. Most of the attributes of the Kickr are working well for me and I suspect for many. It has a great feel to it compared to other trainers I have used. I love that I can use my laptop or phone to control it. I really like the direct drive because I was previously using a PT G3 wheel with my best tire getting additional trainer wear. It works well with TrainerRoad in ERG. I would have liked the power to be better, but for me (selfish I know) the opportunity to use my own power meter (accurate or not) was a really good move by Wahoo - IMO. The Quarq / Kickr / TrainerRoad combination is working so well that I am personally happy. I just hope that everyone else can get the same satisfaction and if not I hope they can return it and get their money back and get something that will progress their training.

I still have hope that either Wahoo will get this sorted out in time or someone here will come up with a decent setup process kind of like those who have used Computrainers for a long time can generally give good setup advice to get it dialed in, such as, press on force, spindown, warm up time and other pre workout setup tips.

I will post again if I see, hear or experience little nuances that may get the Kickr dialed in better. Even though I have been using the beta now for a few weeks, I get excited each time my phone shows that I have an app update hoping that it is Wahoo. This morning I saw a Wahoo app update available, but it did not have the beta applied. It just said big things were coming in the notes.

Thanks for post this, your statements are exactly the way I feel. The Velotron is nearly $10K, it darn well had better be accurate - it is a completely different machine than the $1,200 Kickr.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know why Dave keeps bringing up the Velotron in this thread. I don't know why Dave brings up hardly anything he brings up anymore.

Personally, I have been exceptionally pleased with my Kickr. I use a Quarq and also have a set of Vector pedals on a different bike. At first, I was confused by the disparity between the Kickr and my Quarq. Because I'd had the crank for a long time I definitely consider that to be MY gold standard in terms of accuracy and precision. I followed all of Wahoo's recommended procedures but was still experiencing quite a lot of difference right from the get go (immediately after the first spindown). I then, once I talked to Wahoo about it, started doing a second spindown about 10-15 minutes in and experienced almost exactly equal numbers b/w my Quarq and Wahoo. Yesterday I was doing a 6x5mins at 108% and on the 4th interval the #s were down a bit but I did a spindown after and everything got back to normal.

Personally, I didn't buy the Wahoo to be as accurate and precise as my other powermeters (I know, the horror, posting that here on ST). I got it because of its integration and ease of use. The fact that mine actually is pretty damn close to my Quarq (within 2-3%) is a nice bonus. Wahoo exceeded it's previous year of sales in 2014 by over 200% I believe (or something equally ridiculous). I think they will get everything sorted to the degree that it needs to be sorted.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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D'oh!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
I don't know why Dave keeps bringing up the Velotron in this thread. I don't know why Dave brings up hardly anything he brings up anymore.

Personally, I have been exceptionally pleased with my Kickr. I use a Quarq and also have a set of Vector pedals on a different bike. At first, I was confused by the disparity between the Kickr and my Quarq. Because I'd had the crank for a long time I definitely consider that to be MY gold standard in terms of accuracy and precision. I followed all of Wahoo's recommended procedures but was still experiencing quite a lot of difference right from the get go (immediately after the first spindown). I then, once I talked to Wahoo about it, started doing a second spindown about 10-15 minutes in and experienced almost exactly equal numbers b/w my Quarq and Wahoo. Yesterday I was doing a 6x5mins at 108% and on the 4th interval the #s were down a bit but I did a spindown after and everything got back to normal.

Personally, I didn't buy the Wahoo to be as accurate and precise as my other powermeters (I know, the horror, posting that here on ST). I got it because of its integration and ease of use. The fact that mine actually is pretty damn close to my Quarq (within 2-3%) is a nice bonus. Wahoo exceeded it's previous year of sales in 2014 by over 200% I believe (or something equally ridiculous). I think they will get everything sorted to the degree that it needs to be sorted.


I agree with you about the KICKR... I like mine too. I was REALLY happy with it until I put an SRM on the trainer bike :)

I am anxiously awaiting the Wahooligan App.... and then that will hopefully solve the discrepancy temporarily.

I would really LOVE it they could fix the KICKR... and hopefully they eventually will.

BTW... the one major down side of the Velotron (besides the price) is that it doesn't work with Trainerroad. To me... that would be a deal breaker.
Last edited by: Donzo98: Feb 11, 15 6:32
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a screen shot of what I mention. You can see that at first it's low (my Quarq is low compared to Kickr's Target Power) by about 10-15%. I then do a second spindown at minute 15 or so and, at low intensities, the Quarq essentially mirrors the Kickr target. The yellow power line obviously goes up and down quite a bit but that's pretty normal insofar as power is concerned. I am not sure why on the 4th interval the power dropped a bit (to maybe 2-3% below target) but another spindown during the recovery section got it back to at or just above target power.


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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
Here's a screen shot of what I mention. You can see that at first it's low (my Quarq is low compared to Kickr's Target Power) by about 10-15%. I then do a second spindown at minute 15 or so and, at low intensities, the Quarq essentially mirrors the Kickr target. The yellow power line obviously goes up and down quite a bit but that's pretty normal insofar as power is concerned. I am not sure why on the 4th interval the power dropped a bit (to maybe 2-3% below target) but another spindown during the recovery section got it back to at or just above target power.


What are your typical spindown numbers?? Offset and time?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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I think the issue is that it looks like the first generation of Kickrs were pretty decent, like in your case 2-3% difference which is acceptable.
The problem is the new ones are not only wildly inaccurate by 20-30 watts but they also drift. What's even more interesting is that even after they're calibrated with a weight and everything they're still off...

I'm not sure why they're not focusing on resolving what looks like a manufacturing issue. Put simply, the old kickrs are OK the new ones are crap.. What changed?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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I have not kept track of offset, to be honest. As far as spin down goes, my initial is usually about 19s, second is usually 26-27s. Yesterday's ride had the 3rd spin down at about 30s.

I got my unit in March or April of 2014, but didn't really start using it until November.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James your experience is similar to mine. after a big discrepancy (KICKR 35-40 watts high) I got it pretty close to my SRM w/ multiple spin downs. I also see some drift at the end of workouts and can get it back with an additional spin down. This is all in ERG mode BTW.

What I do, and what you might try, is just leaving your offset from the the end of this workout on your KICKR. When I start the next day's ride, the KICKR actually reads low by a few percent until the unit gets warmed up (or I get to higher wattage, not exactly sure) and then it's right on.

I'd be curious to know what you do/did at the start of the NEXT workout after this one.

Eric

James Haycraft wrote:
Here's a screen shot of what I mention. You can see that at first it's low (my Quarq is low compared to Kickr's Target Power) by about 10-15%. I then do a second spindown at minute 15 or so and, at low intensities, the Quarq essentially mirrors the Kickr target. The yellow power line obviously goes up and down quite a bit but that's pretty normal insofar as power is concerned. I am not sure why on the 4th interval the power dropped a bit (to maybe 2-3% below target) but another spindown during the recovery section got it back to at or just above target power.


Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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dcrainmaker wrote:
I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.

but do you also calibrate at the start of the ride?

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.


but do you also calibrate at the start of the ride?

Yes, at the start and then in the 10-20min range (exact time depends a little on the workout). Same goes for all power meters.


-
My tiny little slice of the internets: dcrainmaker.com
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Donzo98 wrote:
James Haycraft wrote:
I don't know why Dave keeps bringing up the Velotron in this thread. I don't know why Dave brings up hardly anything he brings up anymore.

Personally, I have been exceptionally pleased with my Kickr. I use a Quarq and also have a set of Vector pedals on a different bike. At first, I was confused by the disparity between the Kickr and my Quarq. Because I'd had the crank for a long time I definitely consider that to be MY gold standard in terms of accuracy and precision. I followed all of Wahoo's recommended procedures but was still experiencing quite a lot of difference right from the get go (immediately after the first spindown). I then, once I talked to Wahoo about it, started doing a second spindown about 10-15 minutes in and experienced almost exactly equal numbers b/w my Quarq and Wahoo. Yesterday I was doing a 6x5mins at 108% and on the 4th interval the #s were down a bit but I did a spindown after and everything got back to normal.

Personally, I didn't buy the Wahoo to be as accurate and precise as my other powermeters (I know, the horror, posting that here on ST). I got it because of its integration and ease of use. The fact that mine actually is pretty damn close to my Quarq (within 2-3%) is a nice bonus. Wahoo exceeded it's previous year of sales in 2014 by over 200% I believe (or something equally ridiculous). I think they will get everything sorted to the degree that it needs to be sorted.


I agree with you about the KICKR... I like mine too. I was REALLY happy with it until I put an SRM on the trainer bike :)

I am anxiously awaiting the Wahooligan App.... and then that will hopefully solve the discrepancy temporarily.

I would really LOVE it they could fix the KICKR... and hopefully they eventually will.

BTW... the one major down side of the Velotron (besides the price) is that it doesn't work with Trainerroad. To me... that would be a deal breaker.


Not today but ...

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [dcrainmaker] [ In reply to ]
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do me a favor and leave your unit alone after your last mid-ride calibration. I leave mine plugged in. Then check your differences at the start of the next ride w/out recalibrating.

dcrainmaker wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.


but do you also calibrate at the start of the ride?


Yes, at the start and then in the 10-20min range (exact time depends a little on the workout). Same goes for all power meters.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Donzo98 wrote:
James Haycraft wrote:
I don't know why Dave keeps bringing up the Velotron in this thread. I don't know why Dave brings up hardly anything he brings up anymore.

Personally, I have been exceptionally pleased with my Kickr. I use a Quarq and also have a set of Vector pedals on a different bike. At first, I was confused by the disparity between the Kickr and my Quarq. Because I'd had the crank for a long time I definitely consider that to be MY gold standard in terms of accuracy and precision. I followed all of Wahoo's recommended procedures but was still experiencing quite a lot of difference right from the get go (immediately after the first spindown). I then, once I talked to Wahoo about it, started doing a second spindown about 10-15 minutes in and experienced almost exactly equal numbers b/w my Quarq and Wahoo. Yesterday I was doing a 6x5mins at 108% and on the 4th interval the #s were down a bit but I did a spindown after and everything got back to normal.

Personally, I didn't buy the Wahoo to be as accurate and precise as my other powermeters (I know, the horror, posting that here on ST). I got it because of its integration and ease of use. The fact that mine actually is pretty damn close to my Quarq (within 2-3%) is a nice bonus. Wahoo exceeded it's previous year of sales in 2014 by over 200% I believe (or something equally ridiculous). I think they will get everything sorted to the degree that it needs to be sorted.


I agree with you about the KICKR... I like mine too. I was REALLY happy with it until I put an SRM on the trainer bike :)

I am anxiously awaiting the Wahooligan App.... and then that will hopefully solve the discrepancy temporarily.

I would really LOVE it they could fix the KICKR... and hopefully they eventually will.

BTW... the one major down side of the Velotron (besides the price) is that it doesn't work with Trainerroad. To me... that would be a deal breaker.



Not today but ...

.

I really think you like stirring the pot... I think I speak for everyone when I say please stop posting on this thread.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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I was one of those who was able to get the beta Wahooligan app before Wahoo shut down access to it. FWIW, v26 of the beta is working pretty consistently great for me now. I did a 75 minute workout this morning with a fair amount of ups and downs. The average power and normalized power were *identical* in the data captured from the Kickr and from my Quarq. Let's hope they move to a public release soon.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
do me a favor and leave your unit alone after your last mid-ride calibration. I leave mine plugged in. Then check your differences at the start of the next ride w/out recalibrating.

dcrainmaker wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.


but do you also calibrate at the start of the ride?


Yes, at the start and then in the 10-20min range (exact time depends a little on the workout). Same goes for all power meters.

For mine at least... it doesn't matter when I spin down. I know this because sometimes I don't spin down at all.

The numbers are consistently off 15-30.

Yesterday I did a spin down at the end of a 1 hour ride and it was different numbers than my post 15 minute spin down. I will see today if there are any changes (with no new spin down).
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [proftri] [ In reply to ]
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proftri wrote:
I was one of those who was able to get the beta Wahooligan app before Wahoo shut down access to it. FWIW, v26 of the beta is working pretty consistently great for me now. I did a 75 minute workout this morning with a fair amount of ups and downs. The average power and normalized power were *identical* in the data captured from the Kickr and from my Quarq. Let's hope they move to a public release soon.

That is GREAT news... hopefully we get access soon.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [proftri] [ In reply to ]
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they're identical because your KICKR is pulling data from your SRM and then sending it to your Wahoo Fitness app or Trainer Road or whatever, right?

proftri wrote:
I was one of those who was able to get the beta Wahooligan app before Wahoo shut down access to it. FWIW, v26 of the beta is working pretty consistently great for me now. I did a 75 minute workout this morning with a fair amount of ups and downs. The average power and normalized power were *identical* in the data captured from the Kickr and from my Quarq. Let's hope they move to a public release soon.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, I was having the same 35-40 watts too high problem that you are but now I'm not. I wish I knew what I did to fix it. Other than copious recalibrations during rides and the climate control thing.

Donzo98 wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
do me a favor and leave your unit alone after your last mid-ride calibration. I leave mine plugged in. Then check your differences at the start of the next ride w/out recalibrating.

dcrainmaker wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.


but do you also calibrate at the start of the ride?


Yes, at the start and then in the 10-20min range (exact time depends a little on the workout). Same goes for all power meters.


For mine at least... it doesn't matter when I spin down. I know this because sometimes I don't spin down at all.

The numbers are consistently off 15-30.

Yesterday I did a spin down at the end of a 1 hour ride and it was different numbers than my post 15 minute spin down. I will see today if there are any changes (with no new spin down).

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
yeah, I was having the same 35-40 watts too high problem that you are but now I'm not. I wish I knew what I did to fix it. Other than copious recalibrations during rides and the climate control thing.

Donzo98 wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
do me a favor and leave your unit alone after your last mid-ride calibration. I leave mine plugged in. Then check your differences at the start of the next ride w/out recalibrating.

dcrainmaker wrote:
ericM40-44 wrote:
dcrainmaker wrote:
I've said since my original review I always calibrate about 10-20 mins in on it.


but do you also calibrate at the start of the ride?


Yes, at the start and then in the 10-20min range (exact time depends a little on the workout). Same goes for all power meters.


For mine at least... it doesn't matter when I spin down. I know this because sometimes I don't spin down at all.

The numbers are consistently off 15-30.

Yesterday I did a spin down at the end of a 1 hour ride and it was different numbers than my post 15 minute spin down. I will see today if there are any changes (with no new spin down).

Mines is in the basement... always around 68-70 degrees. Blower fan on me. Not too hot or too cold. I never move it either...

I wish you could figure out what you did... I would do the same thing!!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
they're identical because your KICKR is pulling data from your SRM and then sending it to your Wahoo Fitness app or Trainer Road or whatever, right?

No, I think it's doing more than that. It's actually using the power from my Quarq to tell the Kickr how much resistance to generate. Previously, my Kickr was consistently 10-15 watts above my Quarq. Now that the app is using the power from my Quarq, I can tell the Kickr how hard to make me work and that number corresponds to that many watts on my Quarq (if that makes any sense). In short, no more need to think, "Well, the Kickr said 250 watts, but that's actually only 240 on my Quarq." And, yes, the workouts *feel* right, as if the power has been upped.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [proftri] [ In reply to ]
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Does turning the KICKR off loose the calibration and reset it to stock or is it stored in the unit?
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [SpeedyChix] [ In reply to ]
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SpeedyChix wrote:
Does turning the KICKR off loose the calibration and reset it to stock or is it stored in the unit?

Not sure if this was directed at me wrt the beta app. Assuming it was, the beta Wahooligan app has a toggle switch for reading power from an external power meter. Once you link it with a power meter, it appears to remember that connection unless you choose to turn it off.
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