I think it's just a matter of time before it's confirmed. Of course it'll always be an aerobic sport no matter what the distance is because well it's a 50 min race even at sprints. And sure you'll get some overlap but you wont get world class guys overlapping and winning both at world class championship level events. The demands will just be too different.

Also with the move to sprint, it'll be more in line with MTR style of racing + Super League and thus this idea that guys will race for 50 min tops or race back to back days of ~75 total mins will even want to race for nearly 4 hours, meh. It's just going to be that extreme imo, I dont care whether it's still aerobic or not. It's just not going to lead to a very successful racing career meshing the 2 distinct races in the same small time frame.

ETA: Will some do it? Absolutely cus they are still great enough athletes. But no way in hell if they move to a full schedule of sprints will those same athletes who also will likely become younger and younger also race 70's at a high level in the same time period. It just aint going to happen. The move to sprint will only make ITU younger and younger and thus that type of athlete generally will lack the "aerobic fitness" that more seasoned athletes can develop. So will there be an initial period where there is cross over of course there will be. But in 10 years it's going to be a very distinct line in the sand of ITU athletes vs non-draft long course athletes (again as I said in another thread, I kinda hate that 70.3 is "long course" because it's probaly the last real race distance that can be raced hard and is still I think much different than IM racing).

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I just love it that he is coming to Kona this year having never completed a full Ironman. Without the swim in Cork can we still call him a 140.6 virgin if it is fun to do so? I think we can! :-).

Has anybody ever reached the podium at Kona as their first complete Ironman? In fact, has there ever been a pro even turn up at Kona in genuine contention for the podium who has never completed a full 140.6?

Hope he doesn't overbike chasing down Wurf and co. or forget he is not in the ITU whenever he passes anybody early in the run.

Mega exciting. I'm gonna be watching, drinking and eventually singing "Come on Ali" to the Dexys Midnight Runners melody.

I think Luc van Lierde ran his first ever marathon at kona to win in record time

I'll disagree here to an extent. The team director will keep the old hand that wins, moreso because he has to. Yet, they want the young guns to come through. Javier, is literally in the way of a guy half his age. When you have certain sports that are in the Olympics and a different format that's longer (Rugby 7s and Rugby XVs) it is also an indictment on the coaching and high performance staff if there's a 35 yr old on the squad for not developing a program that makes the 35 yr old irrelevant. (We're going through this right now with our Rugby 7s side, we'll see what the squad makeup is after Tokyo).

---

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Really? Wow, that is an excellent fact that I didn't know! Cheers!

[quote
And while on the subject of social media - If you believe what Holly Lawrence posts (she's a bit of a mischief-maker), she's stepping up to full for 2020...[/quote]
Holly has already announced she’s racing Ironman St. George as her debut 140.6 next May.

No doubt it's an indictment on the whole program. But my point more is that Gomez isn't taking anyone's spot or holding anyone down. No one has stepped up to take that spot. So that's on both the younger athletes and the programs. But again at the end of the day- federations at the WTS level is about high performance. This is about performing and if the young guys cant perform for whatever reason, the king gets to keep his throne.



Of course you as a federation probaly want to have athletes at a max of 2 olympics. Anything more than that and your likely pipeline isn't as strong as it's needed to be. You kinda want high performance to be an evolving door. Sorta like politics, "career politician" should never occur.


At some point you should be developing the younger athletes to kick out the old guard, just like that old guard did to the previous old guard. Gomez and AB basically helped put to pasture Frodo and others. They just upped the ITU game. The other top names will do it to AB and Gomez, and I think it's already starting to happen. But at the end of the day if AB is your best option, well there's a reason why AB can flip flop. No one else stepped up and took his spot. Yee is starting too, but there's a group of athletes between AB and Yee in the GB federation that kind never was able to take it to the next level. Of course some federation athletes are truly once in a lifetime athletes and thus much harder to unseat their throne. Whereas other federations just natural "aging" causes them to last 1 olympics and out they go to real world and retire.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Gomez is winning and or top 5 pretty much all the time. That's not in the way or stunting the growth of some young guy. If he were to finish out of the money at every race, then I'd agree with you. If he became "pack fodder" that's wasting a spot. But this isn't the case in that particular case.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think in 10 years the landscape could look quite different.

Speaking of the move to shorter racing, does anyone know what is happening with the Super Sprint and Relay Championships which were schedeled to debut in 2021. An announcement on the inaugural venue was meant to happen last September.

https://www.triathlon.org/...d_triathlon_sprint_r

I 100% agree with you about the not blowing up like an age grouper. I think in his mind he "blew up" at Nice because he wasn't able to close the deal by running sub 1:08. So a 2:42 marathon and losing by 3 minutes in Kona could also be a case of where he feels he blew up if only because he believes he can run sub 2:35 or something that feels out of this world to even the most confident Brownlee fan. If you think a podium is even a thought he considers however, I would 100% disagree. To win a world championship or a gold medal you have to have a zero tolerance mindset towards anything but the highest possible achievement. For someone like him who has experienced the kind of success that he has, the top step of the podium is the undoubtedly the ONLY thing he has on his mind.

---

derekgarcia.com

Has anybody ever reached the podium at Kona as their first complete Ironman? In fact, has there ever been a pro even turn up at Kona in genuine contention for the podium who has never completed a full 140.6? //

So a little history lesson, someone already mentioned Luc who actually won in record time. In the recent years you have to have done a full ironman to get to Kona, and only some circumstance like cancelling a swim, or shortening the bike or run, would negate that fact. Of course that happens all the time now, so it would not be as rare as one would think, Ali being a great example.


But before that change in qualifying, one could qualify at 1/2 distance races, or even sprint races before that. SO a lot of pros could end up at Kona for the first time, also doing their first ironman there too. Kona was my first ironman, as well as a lot of other pros up until the early 2000's I would say. And I guess since I led the race for the first half of the day, I could have been considered a pre race podium contender.. (-;

Gordon Haller not only reached the podium but won the race in his 1'st attempt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Haller

As did Tom Warren

---

------------------------------
The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.

As did Dave Scott...

That was not Kona.

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I don't know about sprints, but definitely you could get kona slots at Mrs T's back in the 90s. that was oly distance if memory serves. . .

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

As did Patrick Lange

edit: I meant podiumed at Kona in his first full 140.6

How did Lange qualify that year?

I'm too lazy to look it up but I think Carfrae podiumed her first time to Kona without ever having run a full marathon....but I could be completely wrong about that.

Pink?

---

Strava

IMTX with a 94 mile bike course.

Not sure why you think that would be pink but to clarify:

The question was “who showed up to KONA & podiumed on their first attempt”?

The first IM Hawaii was held on Oahu which is not Kona.

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

That was not Kona. //

Ah ha, you found the technicality, good catch..


Ok, here is another one, Scott Tinley.

:-)

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

And here are a few more;

Jeff Tinley
Grant Boswell
Karl Kupferschmied
Chris Hinshaw
Mike Pigg

Pretty confident on most of those, since there was only one or two other ironman's even in existence back then..So not so rare after all.. (-;