Were on the same page and would like to see the same thing. But, WTC doesn't have to do anything, and they're not going to until they're either shamed into it (Ie. see the Starkey, Dark Mark), or sponsors force them into it.

This arrogance will be part of their down fall, mark my words. One of my earlier posts referred to the future of the sport. How many NCAA stand out women are going to want to continue racing professionally after school? How BAD a reputation will Ironman TM create and imagine the trickle effect created with the purses they're paying. It's happening RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW! In the future your talking about thousands and thousands of these women's parents becoming aware of the GREED of WTC, think about what that will do for the sport. It will go from athletes wanting to complete their "quest" to let's do something other than support that greedy corporation. WTC is fairly new in the publics eye, they must remember a future reputation is hard to change.

With this being said, it is my opinion, the pros need to take their matters into their own hands and create value for themselves within their own market. This will create interest in the sport and the individual. THEN, it grows for them. This will take time, but unless your a pro with a silver spoon, or have won Worlds WTC doesn't care. It can and will be done, being a Pro Ironman Athlete commands respect.

The WTC needs to start a proper regional development program and competition and put money into marketing the athletes that do well locally. Make them local heroes, not global nomads. The athletes need to stop accepting cheap deals, no free shit, manage their image, control the use of it, and drive their prices up. Focus on quality sponsors not quantity. Be the best brand ambassador you can be, you are the brand, not a sandwich board and certainly NOT Ironman.[/quote]
That would make sense and be nice, but I don't see it happening. Too many moving parts, expense, etc.

Maybe Pro Triathletes just need better Marketing and Agents? Dunno.

The issue with your ncaa scenario is this. WTC/IM is only really part of the last part of a 10 year plan for that 20 year old athlete, especially if they are in the ncaa sport. If they are doing it on scholarship, means they are likely following the itu stepping stone. So then they likely are only jumping into the WTC race series once they've maxed out their anaerobic speed.

If they think WTC is greedy, I don't think they even want to get into national federation politics and funding.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

You're right, but if the end game sucks would you want to continue? If an NCAA Women's golfer wasn't good enough to qualify for the LPGA Tour out of school, she goes to the Futures Tour and makes peanuts. The reason she's willing to make peanuts is the allure of the LPGA Tour, it's purses and sponsors.

Yes but my point is, your equating WTC as the LPGA. To a girl that is racing NCAA tri, the LPGA is the ITU in triathlon. Only after her ITU career slows down, will she then race for peanuts (WTC), if at all.
ETA: Let me clarify, ncaa triathlon athletes are going to be racing for peanuts for 99.9% of those "thousands of girls" you mentioned earlier. It's peanuts whether ITU or WTC.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

On the Futures Tour (women's minor league Pro Golf) there are hundreds of members. On the LPGA, there are approximately 125 "exempt" players.

D1 women's golf has approximately 700 competitors, soon there will be approximately the same number of NCAA Female Triathletes.

A lot of successful pro sports have places for NCAA athletes to compete after college, thus increasing the participation in the given sport. Thus increasing family interest, sponsor interest etc.

If triathlon doesn't start paying, the sport will not grow to its full potential.

But who's going to pay these athletes, and where does the money come from? Isn't that the whole issue. You just think WTC needs to do more to pay pros right? Which the issue becomes, why? That's the problem we are in right now. The sport isn't justify why we need to pay pros more.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I'd be willing to wager that 90-95% of D1 athletes never have a real shot at making a living in their sport post college. Why do you think triathlon will be any different.

And I would suggest familarizing yourself with the NCAA proposal. We are a ways off from 700 college triathletes. There are some major barriers to implementation that have to be dealt with on the local levels before it is feasible.

I guess it depends on if they make stars overseas. If you are asking how will that make Ironman competitive with American Football, Baseball, basketball and ice hockey, it won't. It's unlikely to compete with even soccer here in the USA. But so what?

3-billion people watch football outside the USA (you know the football with round balls); most of the countries don't have a massive 2nd sport? Marketed, produced and sold right triathlon could be that sport. Many of the those countries have totally undeveloped broadcast TV, they are mobile crazy(although currently still 2nd generation technology). Solar charged phones, or phones powered by generators are common in places where the don't have TV at all.

I'm just saying, the boat has sailed here. However, if it becomes big elsewhere, it has a chance here, but not on 8-hour broadcast. It's interesting also to compare US Digital to air TV with what is commonly available elsewhere. Digital TV in the UK blows cable here to bits and it is, for the most part free(yes you have to pay the yearly TV license(tax) $180). Then you switch on the BBC, press the red button and they show the whole race of ITU races live on TV. It's not TV as you'd know it,unless you've seen it outside the USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Red_Button

So again, the W in WTC stands for World... don't restrict their future to the US and even North American market.


Yes, I think they could be better coached on how and what to do, I also think there is scope to have managers, rather than agents. The athletes though have to be wiling to learn. Travel, expenses and taxes for a start could be better organized, there ought to be simple well understood advice and guidance. It's not rocket science, I've done it in a small way. I've also encouraged and helped a few pro's understand how to get sponsorship from a broader base than the usual companies who are in on the cartel.



Yes, thats the issue. The WTC needs to pay more prize money that was the great thing about this TRS/Dark Mark plan, illustrate how poorly the pro prize purse is by paying more out. No I don't think the WTC should pay pro's. The prize money needs to be increased and consistent and transparent. Along with the whole charity donation for volunteers scam. Not even close to minimum wage.

The whole purpose here was to posit that the WTC as guardian and owner of Ironman has everything to gain from making the sport more attractive, more successful, if they did that, the market conditions would be such that the potential earnings for pro's would blossom. Again think more broadly than the US Domestic market.

Funny thing about the Futures Tour and the LPGA Tour.

Entry Fee for Futures Tour per event for each golfer: $500
Entry Fee for LPGA Tour per event for each golfer: $0

Future Tour is able to have ~$100k prize purses in part because each golfer is putting their money into the pot in addition to the sponsors. Whereas on LPGA they get their funding from the TV revenue and sponsors directly.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

So Roth's coverage is off the charts....

IMUK has a somewhat steady twitter feed and Racine, where Starky is giving the cane to the field on the bike, has had a total of 5 updates for the entire race...this sucks.

Come on Mdot...at least try!

Agreed. Though I'd say it is only fair to compare Roth coverage to a race like Frankfurt or Kona.

What's your point?

My point is future Pro Triathletes are going to leave the sport because theres no where to go to make a living! Other sports have some type of farm system to keep athlete in the sport where as triathlon has nothing.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this and always thought a non-WTC market based solution to athlete development was needed. I love what USA Pro Tri does which is bring together a lot of good athletes and support them. One thing that sucks is as a pro I have to seek out all my own sponsors etc and can only offer them one person. what USA Pro Tri did was have one person (Ryan) do the work and he can promote a nice roster of athletes. Its like the Brooks-Hanson Project in Running. More of that kind of thinking would be awesome.

Also I would have loved for Rev3 or HITS or even a combo of bigger regional races (beach to battleship, savageman, toughman etc) to make a pro development series. Offer 5k so aspiring pros can get their card (to get a card you need 3 races with 5k or more in prize money) and new and second tier pros can do some races where they have a shot at a pay day. Its nearly a risk free idea too because if pros dont come you dont have to pay out under USAT rules. A kick starter for that would be awesome. It could also have a point series element to it and a series champion. It would be like cycling and its continental racing.

with 15k of which you would likely end up paying out way less of a race series like HITS or rev3 could make a real statement on this topic and get a lot of top AG athletes looking to turn pro, second tier pros looking to be in the hunt and also new pros looking to develop. I bet the right person could even sell this to a sponsor to front the money. Add some basic coverage etc and I bet it would be compelling.

I would do it but I am busy training 20-40 hours a week. Which gets to the heart of the problem. Pros have a hard time standing up for themselves because holy crap is being a pro hard. I can barely function most of the time let alone take on a giant in the industry. So we just zombie forward through our careers hoping things get better, but they don't. When I started WTC paid ten deep.

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http://www.johnhirsch.org
http://www.stronglikebulltraining.com

I truly hope that 6th place sits up and waits for 7th and then they battle to be the slower and second among them. This will top the time the winner refused to cross the finish line quickly when the WTC tried to rob pros of prize money by saying we had to finishing within a % of the winning time to get paid.


I love that the WTC take such shitty care of pros that a fake twitter account and a fund raising page can derail one of their major events. WTC is fucking pathetic frankly.

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http://www.johnhirsch.org
http://www.stronglikebulltraining.com

But I thought Rev3 was offering some decent money to pros but pulled the plug this year because not enough were signing up?

In the US, WTC has the market with Kona and so many would rather be poor but try to get to Kona. Luckily I have always put my
focus on short stuff and been in the USAT TeamUSA camp. Outside the US, short course racing is king.

Now ITU trying to continue to make their events more TV friendly makes them very smart! Starting years ago with DL meant no
funky penalties. Then this sprint team stuff is exciting. And now maybe only having the Sprint distance for the elites to make
the entire event less than an hour. Very smart, very smart.

No one wants to watch any event basically longer than an hour. Even the boston marathon pushes it with about 2.5 hours.
I only watched the last 10 minutes.

Oh well, luckily I was never good enough to worry about this other than being a hobby.

Best of luck.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You do realize that every single major professional sport has events that last well over an hour, right? The people I know who are into football, for example, spend 12 hours of their Sunday watching it.

I'll be disappointed if ITU goes to all or mostly sprints because then I'll have half as much time to nap while they bike around in flat circles in a pack while nothing happens. I've got it pretty much figured out now and usually wake up just in time for the run.

And I guess this is why nothing will change.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

JH, so how are you pros going to move from this stunt to actually taking advantage of them being shown as this greedy company? I think this is going to be a great classic F you WTC stunt, but then what. How are the pros really going to benefit from it?

Has it derailed Lake Placid? I ask because if it really has derailed the event, you'll have traction. But I'm not really sure that's the case. I think this is going to be an epically funny 12 min story about the 7th place who got a ton of money, but.......Then it all goes back to status quo, TRS comes up with another funny stunt to make fun of the tri-douchery in our sport.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Great question, but not my stunt, so I have no idea. I would never presume to be the spokes person for this masterful idea. That said, I wonder if the stunt is the "activism". If shame as a form of change works. It might. It might be that this stunt and others like it produce change. Its small money for the WTC to pay 10 deep or even 10 deep and double the prize purse. In fact the WTC use to pay 10 deep and I think more money and did not charge pros to race. If not, I know all those who felt cheated by the WTC will at least enjoy these lovely pranksters stealing the moment.

But I don't/won't race WTC events unless I have too. I Loved Challenge AC and that plus some cooler non wtc races will make up the rest of 2014 and all of 2015.

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http://www.johnhirsch.org
http://www.stronglikebulltraining.com

Very seldom does working against an organization make positive results, let alone trying to embarrass them.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

WTC wont give a flip about this stunt, as it'll be old news by the time Mike Reilly gets off his 6pm MC duties. The bigger issue is, they have the pros by the balls, the pros know it, WTC knows it, the industry knows it. WTC is this evil company, yet pros will line up to race their events. Isnt that the definition of insanity.
ETA: I think it's a great cause, I think it's an fantastic idea, and I think it wont result in anything long term for the development of the pro purse. Cool foot note type of stunt, "remember when those pros were standing by the finish line playing paper rock scissors with each other waiting for the other guy to get in 6th, so they could take the 7th prize money". I cant wait to hear how big the purse is when the legend is told in 20 years. "Dude 7th place won $50k that day".

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I think its safe to assume that there will always be "pro triathletes"especially as the bar is relatively low to get in, thats what the WTC is depending on. To some degree, times and performance will continue to improve. While the norm here in the US goes something like this

"What do you do?"
"I'm a professional triathlete"
"Have do done Kona/Hawaii then?"
...

but that conversation isn't the same outside the USA, although it is increasingly "Have you done an Ironman".