Asking in all sincerity.....where should the bubble be? I mean, we certainly don't think every pro should get paid do we....so where is that magic line?

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I think in this instance, my right to call him a dipshit is protected by law.

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Asking in all sincerity.....where should the bubble be? I mean, we certainly don't think every pro should get paid do we....so where is that magic line? //

It should be top 20, with primes 5 deep in each category, with a record bonus for each event and overall. That would just be 5 places more than in my day, we had the 5 deep event bonus back then too, $5k/4k/3k/2k/1k. This helps spread the wealth around to certain pros that make the show and race interesting. That is where you draw the line.. In all sincerity, it is a frigging world champs after all..

Just to ask a counter question, Dusty. You know you and I often debate stuff like this :-)

Why shouldn't everything single pro at Kona get paid. Hy-Vee did it and they didn't have nearly the industry coverage that Kona does. The pro's put in a significant amount of work during the year racing WTC events to get the point total they need to race Kona. It doesn't seem unreasonable that every pro that makes that cutoff should make money at the main event.

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I'd donate for this. Makes even more sense.

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For Kona, I could see everyone getting paid, I would agree with that. I still don't think the prize purse should come from WTC. It should come from sponsors like every other sport. The token prize purse WTC puts up is completely fair in my opinion. Especially considering they absolutely don't have to.

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Hey Travis, now that i think about it that is a great idea. I was still back in the day when any pro could enter the race and they would have 100's of them. Since it is more like golf now, where you have to do a tour and get points to stay on top and qualify for the championship competitions, it would not be out of the realm to at the very least have a token amount for those last 25 or so. I think the last guy and gal on any PGA tournament gets a payout, a kind of bonus for making the cut. It is not an easy cut anymore to even get to Kona, maybe something like $2 to $2.5k for the last 25 spots, or take that amount and keep graduating it down to 50th.

I still don't think the prize purse should come from WTC. It should come from sponsors like every other sport.//

Are you under the assumption that WTC has no sponsors for hawaii? And if not, do you think sponsor money looks different than any other money they pull in?

Hy-vee is a great example of how it should work too. Huge sponsor puts up the purse.

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Not at all. All I'm saying is I you want more prize money you need BIGGER sponsors donating more money.

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Paying every pro at Kona would do a lot to take away the allure of non-WTC races that have larger purses for professionals. If the WTC had a lock in pros chasing points to get into Kona now, it would be a stranglehold on the professional field if there were a guaranteed payday.

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And as I mentioned, the bigger sponsors are long gone and unlikely to return. There is no money in "professional" Ironman racing for any one involved, it's an amateur based event and attracts amateur level sponsorship support.

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I wonder how much WTC is pulling in from the sponsors for Kona that goes straight to their bottom line. Obviously there is nothing that says they have to do anything with that money other than pocket it, even if I think some of it should get spread around. The bottom line is the nature of business though so I get it. I still think the pro field provides much more return to WTC at Kona than is commensurate with the purse payout, however.

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There's a huge difference between the money pulled in by the "sponsors" for Hawaii and the sponsors (and TV revenue) for the sports people want IM to pay like.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

A few years back, I think like 2011 and earlier when K-Swiss was a sponsor, they paid WTC $3mil per year.

I would be curious to hear how much Ford or Anheiser-Busch kicked in.

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There's a huge difference between the money pulled in by the "sponsors" for Hawaii and the sponsors (and TV revenue) for the sports people want IM to pay like. //

Ya, the huge difference is the amounts, and no one is saying pay the "amount" of golf or tennis, but use the structure they use. Last place in big golf tournaments gets like $20+k usually, and that is somewhere around a 100th place. First place is usually close to a couple million. If you scale it down, and way down, you can get a decent payout for a world championship without breaking the bank. And i bet there would be lots of small time sponsors that would give this money if they knew it went directly to the purse. It could be the aqua sphere swim segment, or the Slowtwitch seat too high bike ride. You don't have to be a huge company to put up $30k for some primes and they could buy insurance policies for record performances. It is just many of these small time sponsors get raked if they want to be part of the ironman sponsor package. They would not just do it for the actual amount, they would want at least double or even more. You see it would not be about the pros or what they bring to the race, it would be about how much could we actually make in hard dollars on these deals. Many companies are like this, they have a real hard time valuing what employees or celebrities bring to their business, thus ignore it and pretend it is nothing.

A few years back, I think like 2011 and earlier when K-Swiss was a sponsor, they paid WTC $3mil per year. //

As much as i would like to agree with you, i'm fairly certain this is not even close. They were just the shoe sponsor and i heard numbers in the $250 to $500k range for that deal per year. That may be close to a title overall sponsor, not sure about that..

The prize breakdown for all Ironman events is here: http://www.ironman.com/...nt-registration.aspx

For comparison's sake, here is the prize breakdown for a few other, similar endurance events:

Boston Marathon: http://www.boston.com/...on/runners/prize.htm
NY City Marathon: http://www.tcsnycmarathon.org/...ney-and-bonus-awards
ITU events: http://wts.triathlon.org/series/prizemoney
Challenge Bahrain: http://www.challenge-family.com/...ize-purse-structure/

Guess what? IM Kona pays more than ALL of these events.

and assuming you are right, the joke would actually reflect on the WTC. The ITU won't be hurt, mostly because ESPN isn't carried in it's US Format outside the USA, and no one in the USA mostly cares about ITU style racing, except for the recent rush of blood to the head over Womens Shortcourse/NCAA.

So, it would have been, if only ESPN would have made fun... the long term impact might have been to sew the seeds in a few heads that ex-swimmers, busted druggie cyclist that its not worth moving to professional triathlon.

> changed typo USAT > USA

Guess what? IM Kona pays more than ALL of these events. //

Guess what, none of those events are a world championship, just stops on a tour. And to compare an olympic distance race to an ironman is just silly. Guys can maybe do 2, perhaps 3 ironman events a year. Olympic racers can race virtually every week with a tiny off season. And Hawaii pays just about the same amount as Boston, New York, and the other big marathons. They pay a little more to stuff like wheelchair, some are groups, and even some special categories, but pretty much the same as hawaii, only they all pay deeper than hawaii.

Yes, so they pay at a rate that is pretty consistent with other major endurance sporting events (like the marathon majors), and the organizations that are putting on those events are typically non-profits that don't also put on 50 other events that give out prize money to pro athletes.

What endurance sports world championship, especially in a sport with virtually no television presence, pays significantly more than IM Kona?

It's not a WTC problem, it's an endurance sports problem.

I'm getting info from someone on twitter that WTC says the race guide payouts was an error and there was no increase. We'll see.

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I've 'argued' or posted that ITU has a more equitable and professional prize purse. WTC, however, may put up more total money as well as providing prize money at more total events.

You linked the WTS events, there are 8 plus a championship and a total purse of $2.2MM according to the ITU website. The listing that you showed does not include the World Cup races (10 of them), the Continental Cups (50+ of those), the Continental Champs (21 including some non-Oly distance ones). Globally there are 70+ ITU events that pay prize money at the olympic distance. And, you can race an olympic distance event almost every weekend.

If you really want to make a comparison, add up all of that money to see how it all compares. I have not done that. WTC is likely overall still more globally which is a good thing. Also, consider that 25 athletes get paid in Edmonton, which the the Grand Finale. There is also a pool of 35 athletes who get paid via the WTS (highest level of events) bonus pool. For comparison, 5 or 6 athletes get paid at WTC lower level ($$) events, 6 or 8 get paid at mid/higher level events (including conti-champs), and 10 get paid at 70.3/IM World Championships. There is no bonus pool. Simple facts.

WTC's $4MM investment is a big one in prize money. But, a high profile pro just tweeted that he feels IM events should have less top-heavy, deeper, and more equitable prize purses. There have been several pros who have, in the only avenue available now, talked about and provided thoughts about prize purses, etc. There will be changes in 2015 I am sure. Melbourne and St. George were great pro events. 140.6 mile events with 4 women and 7 men on the start list don't make great events to watch or cover. What the changes will look like, we can only guess.

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