no, its a different race

Cock primes!!!

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

The pro race and the AG race play out differently, especially over the first 40k of the bike.

To say they are the same race is just displaying a lack of understanding about how the races unfold.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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How did I "dis" age-groupers in this instance? We have decided that this money goes to the 7th place professionals. If you don't like it, too bad. In my opinion, they are separate races because the gun goes off at different times and the age groupers race in a slightly different set of circumstances. They are not involved with the surges on the bike or the draft during the swim. They may benefit from passing other age-groupers on the bike, thus benefiting aerodynamically during those passes. It's the same day and the same course, but I think they are very different.

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there's no way I finish in 9:26 with a 5:04 bike this year at CdA if I was in the pro race. It's a different race... it would have been a LONG lonely day with my nose in the wind.

If any amateurs think they can finish 7th they can turn pro like the rest of them. Put your mouth where your money is so to speak.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Your decision to pay 7th pro regardless is fine. And the races are different, but they are also more the same - a long day of (mostly) solo swim, bike, run. And, my point is that when a pro finishes behind an amateur, is that pro really standing on solid ground when making the argument they deserve big payouts? If amateurs are beating pros rarely for the tail end of the money, that's one thing. But, if it's a normal scenario, that should inform.

I don't care about that tangential argument. It's unimportant.

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Again, you are displaying a lack of understanding how the pro races unfold. It's completely different than the AG race.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Please. AGs and Pros race the same day on the same course.//

But not in the same race, and you know that. Do i have to list the AG'ers that killed it in their ranks who turned pro, only to fall back not only in time vs pros, but in placings as well. I don't know why you keep harping on this one point, it is different rules, different times of day, different conditions, different marshaling, different drug testing, different incentives(and dis incentives), and most importantly not head to head. You seem to be under the illusion that triathlon is a time trial, start to finish. It is anything but..I let a lot of AGs'ers beat me when i was a pro, didn't care on many days when i was off. Didn't need to. And that goes for Mark Allen, Scott Tinley, Scott Molina, and every other pro you could name, and i know you can name a lot of them.

I think(for whatever that's worth) that pros do not have the advantage of a large draft on swim as well as the bike and that they're off the front by themselves all day. So unless the are starting everyone in the same wave it seems unfair to say it's the same race.
Also what do you consider a large payout? I don't think we are talking PGA money here just a couple hundred bucks down a few more places.

This was precisely my point in the other thread. A fast racer who races in the AG wave when there is an elite wave is a sandbagger. Everyone said it was their right to race there because maybe they are practicing. My point was you can't race AG and then win 3rd place overall because the elite racers don't know they are racing you and their tactics are different.

You pretended to read my post in the other thread about the distinguishing between self-selected "open" or "elite" waves and an Elite or professional race.

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IG: idking90

And the bigger point is that pros are supposed to be trying to make a living racing while age groupers are not. That's why the prize money matters to pros and not to AG. With their prize money, they should finance training and racing without a job. Instead, most are asking on twitter if they can borrow a toothbrush.

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I apologize then, I misunderstood the full context in the other thread.

Also, that "guy" was Josh Beck. Highest placing American ever at Zofingen.

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Internet User

Also, that "guy" was Josh Beck. Highest placing American ever at Zofingen. ///////

Higher than 1st place overall, what place is that? (Mark Allen, Kenny Souza, Scott Molina)

*named Josh

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Internet User

Just donated. Quickly approching $7k. Keep up the great work gentlemen.

Side note: For the love of god, please video the awards ceremony and put on You Tube. Will be traveling, but my curiosity must see this thing through to the finish.

Carry on

Some coverage on the Deadspin blog, FITTISH: http://fittish.deadspin.com/...t-ironman-1611154596

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This is awesome. Great work for a twitter troll!
Have you contacted the guys who have written articles in the past about ironman from the WSJ and Bloomberg?

Have you ever competed in a pro race? I compete in both pro & open/AG races on a regular basis and can tell you first hand that they are not even remotely the same race....... it's not a time trial, different rules, different field size, etc. The most obvious of which is the 12 vs 7 meter draft rule. Check the results and its almost always the bike where a top AG does well against the pros, gee I wonder why....

Not to mention you are often looking at a result where the AG had a great day and the pro had a crap day, in which case my grandma could also finish faster. If we are in the same wave under the same rules then yeah I have no problem with that person beating me regardless of what their license says.

That said, obviously there are some stud AG guys/gals that are straight up faster than some pros some times. They just need to be in the same race though if you really want to compare and/or win money. Anyone is more than welcome to apply for the pro license if they want to win money

Donated
+1 for video.

So the question that needs to be asked is:

Why bother with an Ironman branded race? Why have some pros decided to race IMLP when then know well in advance that they'll lose money in the process?

It has already been shown that other races pay more and pay deeper. It has already been shown that doing shorter races lets you compete more often.

Perhaps there is more to racing at an Ironman than the price money.

Hey wow, free advertising for WTC and Lance. Couldn't help but notice this glaring mistake though:

"The point, the Twitter troll says, is that while Ironman is printing its own money, little is going to its best athletes."

WTC doesn't own the athletes, it is not an employer/employee relationship. WTC hosts events and the pros are free to chose if they want to race or not. The article sounds like Disney Stars on Ice not paying its skaters enough as they travel around dancing for our entertainment.

ETA Anyone know what the IOC pays their athletes?

There are a handful of intertwined answers to this that have been discussed beyond the point of usefulness, but here goes:

The KPR/70.3 rankings system make it somewhere between difficult and impossible to race many non-WTC races if an athlete has any aspirations of Kona/70.3 Worlds, leading you to:
Sponsors, whether directly or indirectly, drive athletes to race WTC events. How true the following statements are depends on who you ask:
1. They want them in Kona/70.3 Worlds and directly or indirectly make that clear to athletes
2. "Top 10 finish at IM Anytown" is better marketing than "Winner, LifeChallenge3 BigCity," so getting more sponsors down the road is easier with "meh" WTC results than big-time results from other race organizers
3. Top 10/Top 5/etc sponsor bonuses for WTC events

Again, I'm not sure the validity of any of those reasons, but even if the impression is there, that's what drives these athletes' decisions. There's other factors at play too, like personal relationships and that sort of thing as well.
I understand why logically it doesn't make sense to finish 6th at IMLP, because if you're in a position to finish 6th at IMLP, you're probably not going to Kona. Then of course the money for slowing up is significantly better obviously. However, some of these hand-to-mouth pros are so afraid to rock the boat that yes, they may be that very sheepish, and I don't entirely fault them for that. If there are pros in the field that have significant outside incomes completely external to the sport (ie, not even coaching or working for an industry-related company, but the ones who never left their "real" jobs), I think those are the ones you'd almost certainly see waiting at the line for 6th place to cross so they can finish 7th. They're the ones with the least to lose.

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