If 7th place is an amateur, does that person get the money? And, if not, how would you justify that? "We're pulling this stunt to show that WTC should pay their pros more, so we're giving this huge check to the 7th place pro, who is actually not 7th overall because he couldn't beat an amateur. Nonetheless, WTC should be paying these people more and paying deeper".

Last year 7th place overall was an amateur. An amateur who swam 82 minutes and spotted the majority of the pros a good 30 minutes out of the water. Yet still managed to beat all pros but 6. Probably another amateur or two this year will creep into the top 7.

As stated, if the intention is to highlight lack of prize money for pro's, wouldn't it stand to reason that only the pro's would be eligible? WTC doesn't recognize amateur finishers who do place ahead of pro's.

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1099.

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This is about pros. It will go to the 7th place pro. They are different races. There is no debate on this issue.

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I don't think anything outside top 3 matters that much for the sponsors and some of the pros so I'm sure once those who are out of range realizes it we might see a few of them go for 7th instead. Of course you don't have to be too obvious about it which could play out some pretty entertaining scenarios in the race still.

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Yeah, I am not trying to put too fine a point on it, but if they really want to be considered "professional" in the strict meaning of the word, would not performing their best intentionally for some extra money be considered "professional"? These guys and gals are pretty lost in the sauce for the most part. Some are smart business people who know how to manage their brand well, but a lot are kind of flailing about without a lot of career direction. Maybe I am actually making your point!

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If it's done too blatantly perhaps but otherwise I don't think anyone really cares that much. It's an expensive sport and if someone out of the running for the top spots finishes 7th to recoup some of the cost, and make it look 'good', I doubt there will be much backlash from sponsors and the like.

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I'd love if the excess above $6000 went to whoever tries the most creatively blatant attempt to finish 7th, regardless of it's successful or not.

Maybe if pro prize purses were bigger and deeper the best amateur athletes would have more push to race as a pro and this wouldn't be so much of a problem.

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I think hiring a few guys in gorilla suits to pace anyone in danger of getting 7th should do the trick.

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Exactly the reason why the pay doesn't go much beyond that.

Because no one gives a shit who finished 7th.

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Last year 7th place overall was an amateur. An amateur who swam 82 minutes and spotted the majority of the pros a good 30 minutes out of the water. Yet still managed to beat all pros but 6. Probably another amateur or two this year will creep into the top 7.
This is about pros. It will go to the 7th place pro. They are different races. There is no debate on this issue. //

Exactly. That guy was 1st amateur and not 7th pro. They race in different races, so there is a 7th overall pro and a 7th overall AG'er, as well as each and every spot. Hell i could have been 7th overall, just in a different race, in a different state, and certainly a different distance!!!!

And there's that. :)

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It's the elephant in the room.

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Next to the Gorilla which is what is the REAL value AG'ers put on pro's at races other then Kona and what they would be willing to do to alter their pay structure? Slightly higher entry fees? People talk about these supposed WTC revenue numbers. From what I have seen, I don't think they are that out of the park outstanding. If I were them I wouldn't pay more either.

Speaking of which, wasn't TRS going to do a whole big expose on that?

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Of course, but if prize money was reduced to only top 3 the pro/elite racing part of the sport would slowly disappear so it's necessary to pay deeper to sustain some quality of the field. I realize in the sport of triathlon a lot of people don't give a shit about having pros so maybe it doesn't matter but personally I think it'd be pretty sad if our sport took that direction.

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I can't see that happening as they will always offer prize money. And if money is on offer, there will be pro's who will try and get it. The issue is how much, obviously.

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I once finished 7th in a photo manipulation contest, and my prize was a picture of my face photo-shopped onto the body of G.W. Bush's dog . That prize gave me endless inspiration, and now we're all stuck with me photo-bombing threads.

So, yes, maybe it is dangerous awarding anything at all to seventh place.

…and there's that. :)

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Weak. On another thread this week I posed a question asking why pros would bottom feed in local races. Post after post told me it's their prerogative to race, and a race is a race, and if you get beat by a pro too bad you need to HTFU, and it's an honor to get beat by a pro, and on and on...

Seems it doesn't work the other way.

I have never done IMLP. I know the pros race Sunday. When do the amateurs race? Is their course different? I'm sure it must be easier, right?

And let's not pretend that pros at that level are getting serious sponsorship. They, ay be getting some equipment, if they are lucky. And if anything they'd bring more exposure by getting 7th and being part of this than 6th place will get.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I would think ANY amateurs who beat the pro's train just as hard and put in just as many hours training....not to mention the financial sacrifice. 100% should go to whoever finishes 7th. If the pro cannot beat the amateur who has a job, family and training...and still the amateur is faster, then the pro should rethink their career no matter how much you love the sport until you can beat them?

Don't get me wrong....I think this movement is 100% needed as I find the WTC greedy and arrogant. I applaud TRS for this as no one else has the balls to stand up to them. I just think the actual 7th place finisher deserves the $$.

Pro's get the shaft in Triathlon like no sport I have seen. The cost of this sport is insane! The WTC takes a very large chunk from those who compete with multiple entries to hope to qualify, clothing, toy tent etc. Equipment and travel also pricey and take up a lot also. The amount they payout is an insult to the top 10! Yes the sport is growing at a crazy rate....but if they want to continue to head that direction, they need to pay dues to the top of the heap that helps them get there! The WTC should not be the only entity to reap the rewards.

As much as I love "Ironman" as I have grown up watching it on TV as a kid with Dave Scott and Mark Allen....I would love to see other events give them a run for their money and play fair.

TRS please keep up this movement, and be very careful what is typed and posted to avoid legal repercussions as you will be a target by WTC who has deep legal pockets----as I am sure you know as you seem very intelligent. Also, please don't dis the age groupers who support you....as they will be the backbone to assist your movement.
Best of luck, and I look forward to IMLP and good luck to everyone racing.

BTW...have donated and purchased gear!

its really a completely different race. a pro is racing against the other pros, not the pros and age groupers. lets say a pro is gunning for the podium. if he or she blows at mile 20 in the marathon, they have no incentive to continue breaking down their body just to cross a line ahead of an age grouper that is gunning for a kona slot.

similarly, within a pro race there is tactics because again, they are racing within their own group. which in turn can lead to the situation i just described.

and you are still wrong on the other thread.

Please. AGs and Pros race the same day on the same course. When a pro is getting beat by an AG, they may not be losing out on money to that AG, but they are being beat, fair and square. And, you know it.

Now, this TRS stunt is about raising awareness of the lack of prize purse money. Ok, it has succeeded at that. But, it has also caused people like me to think about it a bit more. And, I am not certain WTC should be paying out substantially for the kind of performances that are on the money bubble. What people fail to see is that the proliferation of events has diluted the pro field, so the quality at each event is not high. Why should WTC pay big for mediocre performances, for performances that amateurs who swim 82 minutes are beating.

Some questions for TRS:
1 - what is the average total prize purse per IM event in 2014 vs 2004?
2 - what is the average time payout cutoff limit in 2014 vs 2004
3 - what percentage of events pay out to someone who was beaten by an amateur, ie someone who expects $0 in compensation but still is faster than those expecting to be paid for their participation?

WTC has grown events roughly at the pace of increase in participation. Supply to keep up with demand. This has resulted in about a 5x increase in events in the past decade, 5x the number of events that are paying out money. Has the growth of the pro field grown at the same rate. Are the number of pros who are running 8:10, 8:20, 8:30, 8:40 5x the amount it was 10 years ago?

no, its a different race.