I could be mistaken, but I think that picture is Rock Cobbler not BWR.

But agree that MTB shoes may be a better choice. It is almost a certainty that you will have to get off your bike at some point, whether it is because you struggle in spots, or people in front of you struggle. I destroyed a set of road shoes pretty much last time I did this. I'll be using MTB shoes this year.

jake

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Get outside!

I think I've settled on my horse...

Fezzari CX bike with Schwalbe 35mm Allaround tires ( measure out to a bit over 36 on envy rims ), disc brakes and swapped crank for 50/34 with 11-32 cassette. I don't think I could go any bigger on the tire in this frame - but they have been running awesome over singletrack and dirt so I'm happy. I had to fiddle with the tires and rims to get them properly sealed - but I've got them now holding full pressure overnight. Maybe another wrap of tape on the bars?

Still thinking about water & nutrition... I've got some lightweight Camelbacks I use for MTB races that are attractive, or just hope my bottles stay put and trust in my pockets. Probably will stay with just bottles unless weather looks tricky and I want more gear options on the day.

How y'all doin?

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

I think I'm pretty dialed.
Specialized Crux, Tubeless Schwalbe G-One Speeds @30c, 50/34 &11-32.
I've been pounding this set up for the last few weeks. From High speed dirt road descents, Moderate speed single-track, slow speed rocky single-track climbs. So far, so good.

Will double wrap drops because the Pro Vibe-Aero drop bars come to a wedge shape on the backside of the drops, which is uncomfortable during rough descending.

Nutrition / Hydration:
Calories (~400kcals / hour)
2 bottles with 5 servings of Infinit GO Far in each. (280 calories / serving (hour)). Hard to mix stronger than this.

• One filled with water on seat tube for the 1st half
• One powder only in jersey pocket (will stop to fill with water for second half).
• Additional electrolytes etc pre-added to bottles depending on conditions

Bento Box crammed with Honey Stinger Chews (~0.5 pack throughout an hour)

• I like these because I can quickly grab a few and pop them in my mouth regardless of the terrain

Hydration
1 Bottle on downtube

• Will start with regular strength Go Far, but switch to on-course hydration and exchange as needed.

Bottles in Specialized Rib Cage II (which I've never had an issue with, but might grip tape).
Initially I had a 3rd bottle mounted behind the saddle, but the extra weight was just too heavy. Harder to handle the bike in rough terrain and mentally it was a boat anchor while climbing.
Also had a Specialized XC Storage box mounted below a water bottle for spares, but will probably go back to traditional bag behind seat.

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Pro One, or G-One?

If G-One, I attempted to roller test one of those yesterday, but had to abort. I couldn't get the damned thing onto my Zipp Course 30 rim! I broke a plastic tire lever in the process and was worried about damaging the latex tube I was using. With the difficulty in getting the last section in place, I was also worried I'd have to cut the bead to remove it (I've had to do that before with a tire), and since the tire isn't mine, that wasn't an option.

So, no idea how well it rolls. That said, my initial "hand feel" impression was that the puncture belt under the tread seems a bit stiff...that usually doesn't bode well.

I would highly recommend carrying the GI tubeless plug kit if you're running that tire. I don't think I'd want to attempt to wrestle a tube into that tire in the field.

However, I was able to roller test a 30C Challenge Strada Bianca Pro...and, as expected, it wasn't quite as fast as the 36C version. Pretty much on par with the 36C Challenge Gravel Grinder Pros, or the 44C Compass Snoqualmie Pass regular casings.

Just thought I'd update on that front...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Was that with the 30mm G-One? Because I had the same exact experience with 3 different tires and DID have to cut one and pry off with pliers. They roll great, but if you flat 'em on road, it's an Uber ride home.

Oddly, no such issue with the 35mm, which goes on & off relatively easily.

Yep...the 30C version.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Tom,

Do you have the crr data on those gravel tires?

Thanks,
Gareth

See post #18 of this very same thread for the link...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6567535#p6567535

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

You seem to be a fan of Compass tires (general consensus seems to be positive on them). What are your thoughts of the 650b x 48c Switchback Hill?

Good Catch-

G-One Speed.

Your mounting experience is interesting; I got them on 2 different sets of i9 rims by hand without levers. Aired up with a floor pump.
But yes, I do have the GI kit in the bag.

Thanks for the input on predicted rolling. I'm still going to test 2 more tires in the next 2 weeks, but these are mounted for now.

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

In the early days of 700c tubeless, a few manufacturers made their rime with a slightly larger circumference by design - in order to try to ensure a tight seal, which would make the tires easer to seat/inflate. Unfortunately, that made it really hard to initially mount tires on those rims. Stans and American Classic were two examples of these. I'm slightly surprised if Zipp went this route, assuming they did and that Tom didn't just get a "bad" tire, given how late they are to the 700c tubeless game.

And tire companies went small, which I think is the case here. I've mounted numerous other tires on this particular wheel with no issue.

It has the potential to be a good choice...but, based on my experience testing the Bon Jon Pass model, I can't really say how well it would roll without specifically testing it. I'd like to see how it compares to the WTB Horizon models...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

While I hardly ever post on these boards (not a triathlete), I figured I'd throw in a response on this one as I completed my first BWR last year (as well as attended the survival camp last January). This year's set-up will be a carbon copy of last year's...

Masi CXRc Comp (cross bike) with hydraulic disc brakes
Mercury M1 wheels set-up tubeless with Hutchinson Sector28 @~70psi
50/34 - 11/32

The 32 in back was a last minute addition (up from 28) and I used every bit of it on Double Peak. The overall set-up was just about perfect on the day and the only change I'm considering for this year is a small drop in tire pressure for some added traction on the dirt descents.

Something that I haven't seen brought up yet on this thread is bar tape. Tires and tire pressure are super important but one can't over look bar tape. This was my biggest take-away from the BWR Survival camp as I rode the camp on standard Fizik tape and my hands took a beating. By race day I had switched to ODI 3.5mm tape and this year am on Black Inc tape (every bit as cush as the ODI, if not more so). Besides the added cushioning, I found the fatter bar felt more secure in my hands and that was especially appreciated in all the technical dirt that, as someone has already pointed out, came after the 90mi mark last year.

I cannot wait to see what's in store for us this year!!

Compass Bon Jon Pass is now on BRR.

I tend to take the "reviews" with a few pinches of salt.
My hypothesis is that we cannot clearly extrapolate from testing with butyl tubes as more supple tires will experience an increasingly detrimental effect.
ie. we cannot just subtract out a static "Butyl effect" and have a like comparison.


LinkyLink

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Yeah...butyl tube is going to add ~2-4W vs. latex or tubeless according to his own testing (at ~60 psi). Not sure why he didn't test it tubeless?

Even then, that seems a bit slow (compared to some of the road tires on his list)....hmmm, perhaps a "confirmation" of my own BJP result? We both tested the standard casing of that model.

I do agree that the tires aren't exactly super puncture-proof...which makes running them tubeless w/sealant a better idea.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

BTW, if you look at the comments at the end of that BRR entry, there's a link to the Paceline forums that has a discussion of the results, including some commentary from Mr. Heine himself (where he demonstrates he still doesn't fully understand the utility of drum testing, nor what it actually represents...oh well):

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=220053

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Did you settle on G-Ones? I'm putting them on tomorrow (hopefully) for a test run in a local 100k mixed surface ride/race Saturday - otherwise, as planned, I will also be going 50/34 with 11/32 (I did go with the medium cage just to be safe). I have them stretching on Zipp 404s with tubes (was able to basically hand mount) so I'm hoping not to have the same issue when mounting on the Aeolus as Tom A. had with the one I sent him!

Your nutrition plan looks a lot like mine except I have a custom Infinit formula I like to use at regular strength, so I am planning to run three bottles (one in jersey pocket) despite slight weight penalty and potentially will either refill with powder or use on-course nutrtition (I'm undecided as of now). Weather looks pretty optimal, at least if the 10-day is accurate (and in any event will be a huge improvement compared to the 21 degree (Fahrenheit!) temps predicted at start for my Saturday race.)

Currently I have Pro-One 28c's mounted up for one last big training ride tomorrow. I'll make my final decision after that, but it'll be one of these two. I'll write up my thoughts on them tomorrow evening.

I switched only to try something different, not because of a known or perceived flaw in the G-one Speed. For me, confidence in tires is important as my riding fluctuates greatly with my mental status. They don't have to be better, I just need to believe that they are. Trying something else will confirm which ever choice I make.

On the road, it's a bit difficult to tell a difference between the two, especially because it's been very windy here recently.
On the dirt (singletrack), they're a bit less confidence inspiring than the G-one speed, but again because of wind I cannot quantify that.

Two side questions:
1. Can anyone explain the waves? When do we find out, which are the different waves, etc.
2. Is the full route ever released prior to the race to load onto a GPS? I'm sure I'll be desperate to know how much longer the climbs are going to last...

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I too am curious about the waves this year. But I haven't heard anything.

For the route, because they probably won't get full permitting until the very last minute, I'm betting the GPS files won't be available until the day before the ride at the earliest. But I could be wrong.

The longest climb is the Black Canyon climb (or so they say in the emails), I believe this hasn't been part of BWR before, but it comes after the sandy descent to the bottom of Black Canyon (this has not been sandy at all lately due to all the rain we have been getting). I'm not sure if the ride will go up to the dam this year, but I do know that it will go up the other way, which is longer climb up to Mesa Grande. That climb is just a steady and winding climb, not too steep, but it'll be the longestclimb of the day if I'm not mistaken.

jake

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Get outside!

Here's how they did the waves last year...I'd expect something similar. I seem to recall that the Women actually started in the first wave with us on race day.


The GPS route is typically released shortly before the ride. I uploaded it last year into my Garmin 500.

Black Canyon was in last year's route..and IMHO was one of the more enjoyable parts of the ride. It's a beautiful area... Here's my Strava recording from last year: https://www.strava.com/activities/999635869

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Looks like I'll probably be a 7:10 public start as I don't race on the road.
Thanks for the strava link

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

If you do any CX or MTB racing, you should be able to ask to be in the first wave.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

  
Schwalbe Pro One 28c

Mounting:
Front mounted up with a floor pump without issue. Rear was a bit finicky. Had to take the valve core out, blast the tire with my compressor to get the bed onto the mounting shelf. Once everything seated, they held air without issue.

Size
30.7mm at 70psi on 21mm internal rims.

Pavement
These are very much a road tire and roll as a road tire should. I believe Tom A has likened them to a GP4000sII, although I think I've seen them listed as faster elsewhere. I was faster on downhill and flat road sections for similar HR and effort as compared to the G-One on Strava.

I had no issues with pavement grip. With the reduced volume they had less of the "floating above the pavement" feel of the G-Ones.

Dirt
Without question, they are less confidence inspiring than the 30C G-One speeds. If this is a concern, the G-One's are your huckleberry.

While the G-One speeds didn't have the grip of a knobby tire, they were fairly predictable in their drift.
The Pro-One's are a bit more On/ Off such that there isn't much "drift" and tend to move quickly to "slide". "Less forgiving" some may say.

I felt the difference on a high speed fire-road descent that has straight away speeds ~30mph into hard braking for switchback turns. On the ProOnes I felt I needed to slow more for the corners. On higher speed singletrack, crushed gravel bike path etc. I do not feel I lost any time as compared to the G-One speed. Certainly a bit less comfortable, but not slower.

The Balance:
This is what matters, in my opinion. In cyclocross I choose tires that are best for the majority of the course, unless the minority section is going to be the decisive point.

While I believe the G-Ones are more comfortable and confidence inspiring on the dirt section, I do not believe they are the tires I will run at BWR. For me, the road sections are going to be more important.

Personally, My skills on dirt are comparatively better than my ability to climb or motor along on the flats. I think I need to play to my weakness in a race that has 90+ miles of pavement with significant climbing.

I think that my last test-ride route was representative of what I expect from the BWR course. I also think that the Pro-ones were the best choice, for me. Ultimately we'll never know. We'll just get out there and have fun with what we have.

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Thanks Robert. I've been following your selections here with interest and I think you've helped cement my final decision for tires.

My big question mark now is gearing. I'm leaning towards 48-11/36. This would give me almost the same low-end as 39-30 and is still reasonably stout for fast descents and flats. The hard part is that some folks have indicated there are some potentially decisive moments early in the race where the pace is high where I may find myself running out gearing with 48x11.

I just don't know enough about the terrain down there, especially on dirt. The issue - I think - is that for me it's probably more about traction than it is about running out of gearing. I.e., I am a bit of a grinder, but that also means that you need to have enough rubber in the back to grip when you are applying high torque. So that's where I don't want too big a front ring.

I have 10-42 and 11-42 cassettes and could theoretically run these with a 50T or even 52T front ring. I don't mind the big jumps, though I don't know how shifting would be with 52-11/42 though; that could simply require more links in the chain than it actually has.

I'm thinking the 11-36, which I can use with a medium cage derailleur will be fine. The real question for me is 46-48-50T in the front. The more challenging parts of the course, especially near the end, have me thinking 48 or even 46. But I don't want to get spun out early if there are sections where I'll need to be able to keep up with guys who have a 53/11 in the front. I'm generally fine with my 50T keeping up with guys with a 53. But 48 - and especially 46 - might be pushing the envelope when the speed gets high.

I don't perceive any real limitations with running a 1X setup here. It's just that I don't know the area and, of course, they don't actually publicize the route until the last possible moment which makes it even harder...

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