Did you see they shared the Strava route for the course?

I'd look at the steep sections, figure your speed based on watts/kg, then figure the cadence / gearing from that.

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Saw it after I posted. The issue that I see is that traction and ability to put down power if it's not a paved climb becomes an issue. Especially later in the ride.

I rode today on 48-11/36 on a route that I normally take my gravel bike on. It was "fine" but it was a 1hr loop. And I found myself repeatedly using the 48-36 on the dirt. I thought I might occasionally need it, but I ended up using it a lot. And I can imagine that after 100mi, it might be nice - especially if it's on dirt - to have a bit extra.

And I wouldn't say the grade was all that steep, it was just a mix of traction and wanting to be able to pick a line and all kinds of stuff that just aren't an issue on pavement.

I ended up swapping to 46-10/42. It's a bit of a big spread and the drag on the 10-tooth isn't great, but it gives me really good range. And on my pure gravel bike, I ride 44-11/42 and I find that is plenty on the road. Of course, that's pushing gravel tires and I'm also not worried about riding with guys who might have 53-11...

So right now it looks like:
Zipp 303 tubeless with Zipp RT28 tires (measure 29.5mm on the wheels at pressure)
46T front
10-42 in the back

That gives me pretty much the same range as 50/34-11/30, which seems to be a pretty reasonable set up for a ride like this...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Considering W/kg's, your "34-30" is probably more appropriate than my 34-32!

I've rarely have issues with rear traction while seated, just a needed weight shift if there's a bit of a slip. However, standing while using anything short of a CX tire on dirt is an exercise in futility. Despite liking to get into a good standing rhythm on the road, I have to ride too gingerly on the dirt / sand and, if anything, I feel like I use more energy trying to be careful.

Have fun out there.

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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That was exactly my experience and what led me to shift gearing. On the road, I'd have been more than fine on the route I rode with 48-11/36. I ride stuff like that with my standard 50-11/32 all the time. But on dirt, it's a different story...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Not to hijack this thread but do you have a few go to gravel rides in Boulder you can recommend? Thinking of heading up from Highlands Ranch this Sunday. Looking for a good 25-35 miler. Maybe a little climbing.

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Formerly DrD

You should have ridden Rapha's "A Day in Hell" with us yesterday... I had all the dirt/gravel I'll ever want.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1497901130

I can't say exactly what roads were gravel vs paved, but I just know by the end of the ride, I was very happy to be done.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Ha, I need a nap just looking at that profile. Maybe 1/3 of that would be perfect!

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Formerly DrD

Replying in general to add to the discussion...

I am pretty sure I've landed on my setup for the wafer:

- Trek Crockett
- Hed Belgium wheels
- IRC Sand 32 tubeless (50 psi back, 45 front)
- 1x (44 front, 11-46 cassette)

Should be fun!

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/26901595

You can do loops of roughly miles 28 to 55; OR starting at mile 6 next to the reservoir up to Hygiene Road, take a right on Hygiene and then another right on 35, take it down to a right on Pike Road (mile 69ish of that route) and follow it through mile 72 to Niwot, but instead of taking a left, take a right to loop it.

FWIW, all the yellow on the Ridewithgps route is dirt.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Looks like a good setup. Good luck!!

Thanks! If i get up there I'll check it out. Deciding on that or the Rampart Range.

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Formerly DrD

1. When you say "Gravel", do you intend to ride roads that could be driven by cars or are you OK riding off the beaten path for a few sections (but not mountain-bike trails)?
2. How much climbing around you looking for? More or less than 3,500 in a 35 mile ride?

It would just dictate routes that I'd recommend.

(The above Rapha ride hits some great dirt and paved roads, but it a bit more "roadie" inspired than I, personally, tend to ride).

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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A mix of roads is fine but I'd prefer as few cars as possible. Light off-road is fine too.

Climbing wise I'd say under 3500 for 35 miles this time of the year.

Thanks and good luck at BWR. Sounds like fun.

Btw it's a little bit of a drive but some of the best off pavement gravel riding I've done is in the Black Hills of South Dakota.

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Formerly DrD

OK

I put together a ride that I would personally do. It incorporates a bit of everything (Dirt, paved, singletrack, Sunny, Shady, Rest Stop, Steep climb). The thing with Boulder is that there is so much to ride. I tried to pack as many of my favorite places into a 40 mile ride as I could, but unfortunately it leaves out a lot of great places. (Be happy I didn't make you climb over the washed out bridge...)

1. The main loop is 41 miles with 1,700 feet of climbing, starting and ending at Amante in North Boulder (Broadway and Yarmouth). Boulder CycleSport is next door if you need anything.

2. If you're feeling good, I tacked on a bit of a climb that starts a block from the coffee shop. This is optional. Wagon Wheel Gap / Bow Mountain is probably the best little sleeper climb in boulder. Its dirt ( and currently under reconstruction from the flood). Has a few steep pitches, but is very quiet. This adds ~7 miles and ~900ft of climbing

The route:
https://www.strava.com/routes/12658693


Miles and Description
0 to 1.5-: North out of Boulder on "36". There's a big shoulder, but it's a moderately traveled, fairly high speed limit road. Kinda hard to avoid, unfortunately

1.5 to 2.5: Dirt road to a trail head

2.5 to 5.5: Singletrack. Completely appropriate for road bikes. Fun, fairly high speed.

5.5 to 17- Dirt Road Goodness with brief pavement interludes

17 to 20 Pavement with good shoulders

~18.5 "Mary's Market" / now known as the purple door market? Great place to stop. It's at the only stop sign in Hygiene.

20 to 26. More pavement, but highly traveled by cyclists. Get your wavin' hand warmed up.

26 to 40- Dirt Roads and Crushed Cinder bike paths. Lots of shade. Interesting as compared to the many miles of straight dirt roads you were just on.

From there it's about 1.5 miles back into North Boulder.

If you're feeling good when rolling back on North Broadway in Boulder, Turn right at the light before the coffee shop to go up Lee Hill Road.
Prior to the Lee Hill climb, you'll turn left onto the dirt Wagon Wheel Gap. There's a bit of construction going on here.

You'll turn left onto the dirt Bow Mountain over a newly (nearly?) constructed bridge. No construction after this point. The Initial pitch is steep, but it flattens out. After the short downhill, it kicks steep again. There's a T at the end of that pitch. Go left for a shorter leg bustin' climb or right for a slightly longer and slightly less leg bustin'. This brings you to Linden, which is a fast, paved, tight descent. Fun, but stay in your limits. You can either ride that all the way down to Broadway and turn left to go back to Amante or cut through the neighborhood as I routed (hey, you said no cars...)

---

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Wow Robert, you went above and beyond! Thank you so much. Even if I can't make it up this weekend I'll be sure to bookmark this for the future.

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Formerly DrD

Tom

Big thank you! The Challenge Bianca Pro 36 with latex was a killer combination. I roller over everything without issue - a jagged rock even snapped underneath me without issue. On the downhills on pavement I coasted passed everyone in the paceline.

It is an amazing tire and a big reason why I survived the BWR.

Jonathan

My tire story was less happy - but still felt like it would have been a good choice. I mounted 35mm Schwalbe G-One Allaround tires about 4 weeks ago. My rear tire never seated /sealed completely, I would get soap bubbles around the rim and it wouldn't hold air overnight. I broke it down, cleaned and inspected the rim, ( ENVE) and remounted, same story. In hindsight, clearly a mistake - but liked the tires, they performed great on road and dirt so I squirted a double shot of sealant in, planed to top off with CO2 and pushed of with the 2nd wave at 7:35.

The first 115 miles were great - I was able to hold pacelines I deserved to be in , handled the dirt sections with no problems ( the first major section on Lemontwistenberg must have had 2 dozen people changing tires when I came through). I was able to top off the tires with Velofix support at mile 45 and 100 during rest station refuels and all was good. At mile 114, the rear tire blew with a nice gush of sealant onto my filthy bike. Velofix was again right on time and in less than 5 minutes we had the bike up on his stand, tried to reinflate and no joy. Pulled the tire off and found a failed bead with a tear, we decided to boot it, put a tube in a hope it worked for the final 20 miles. That then blew like a firecracker about 5 miles down the road. Paul from Velofix had looped back to keep an eye on me and found me wrestling with the 2nd flat. This time, we decided to change out the tire and replace the Schwalbe with an IRC, which mounted up and seated first try. Then THAT ONE started going soft on me, so I stopped a few times to air it up. I had left my CO2 dispenser somewhere along the way, so I had my micro-pump backup trying to inflate this... all told over a 1/2 dozen tire related stops and probably close to 2 hours of time lost.

Lesson learned - if you are not sure about your tires, you're probably right!

I'll be back next year with my setup fully dialed

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

Sorry to hear. I was in that second wave too. Really a ton of flats on all sections dirt and pavement. You were not alone.

I started out training on Hutchison Sector 32’s, but they just didn’t handle well for me in the loose gravel. The Challenge Bianca Pro were the solution. The extra compliance from the 35 width allowed me to stay upright. And they roll faster than any of the tubeless options out there.

I was hesitant to run tubes, but I was sold on it after a handful of test rides where I purposely chose horrible lines and abused the tire.

I am still in a world of hurt today. I ran a marathon end of February and between recovery time and taper really only had four weeks to get ready. Out of the six weeks total between events I was in Europe for two of them. I suspect the day would have been rough regardless, but I was just not prepared for the pounding and endurance required.

I will be back but not next year. I need to recover and a bit of time to forget how awful I feel today.

Nice. Glad to hear that worked out for you. It's really interesting how so many folks don't understand that large tire volume and latex tubes go a LONG way towards heading off pinch flats. It's not just "I have to run tubeless to avoid pinch flats"...

Here's a taste of what I did this weekend instead of BWR (on 28C Turbo Cotton "Hell of the North" tires - no issues whatsoever)...313 miles over 3 days through inland Central California, with the last day being the Nova Eroica event in Paso Robles.



https://www.facebook.com/...e=1&l=73027d15a5

https://www.facebook.com/...e=1&l=451d850153

https://www.facebook.com/...e=1&l=6ff0089413

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Wow TDD- Sorry to hear that story.

I rode about as well as I could have hoped and exceeded my expectations (which were a bit low, not knowing what I was getting into). Finished ~ 8:25.

Tires- 28c Schwalbe Pro One's were great. With all the pavement miles, I'm glad I went with them over the G-One speeds. I was able to put time into people on the road and gravel descents, but they were on the edge on the gravel for sure. I ran 75/80 psi with Orange Seal.

Wheels- Industry Nine i9.65 The deep rims what I had were welcomed for saving energy on the flats. The front being 65mm deep was probably overkill, but I'm super impressed with how they held up through training and the race. They were bashed through rocks, through water, had rocks kicked up at them and they're well super solid.

Gearing: 50/34 and 11/32. Wouldn't do it any different.

Aero / Rolling resistance- I paid attention here. I had a kit made in our prototype area that was nice and tight. I also wore a Giro Vanquish (sans shield) and the deep i9's. That, plus cleaning and replacing bearing lube with a light oil and I effortlessly drifted away from my groups on paved descents. Without pedaling, I would look back and a gap of 50m would have opened. I think this saved me a lot of effort in the long run as I'm not a natural climber and I was able to regulate my efforts better.

Shoes: I ran road shoes, but switched from Speedplay to Shimano. I believe this year was a bit less sandy that others, but I only had to get off my bike a couple times. Once in the first singletrack when someone spun out in front of me, once to clamber over some rocks and once to go under a gate (if I remember correctly).

Nutrition: I went with a 3 bottle system. Bottle 1: 4 hours (8 scoops) of Inifinit GO Far for 1st half nutrition. Ditched when Finished. Bottle two was 4 hours of GO FAR on my back (dry, added water when needed after Bottle 1 was finished) Bottle 3 was water that I exchanged at every aid station for hydration. Nutrition worked out well. Bottle hand-ups at aid stations were clutch. I've never tasted water so good! I also munched on some honey stinger chews I had brought and pounded a couple of cokes. The one low point was that I was having "micro-cramps" in my right calf for ~20 miles, when I decided to take a "Hot Shot" about mile 115. That was a bad idea. It instantly destroyed my stomach. After a 4 minute stint in the "penalty box" I finally got everything back together after Questhaven dirt and prior to Doublepeak.

Edit to Add Clothing:
PI sunsleeves (one white, one black, didn't notice a difference) that I stripped off when it got very hot. Helped protect my pale skin.
Full Finger PI Aero gloves. Also stripped toward the end when I was getting hot.
Prototype PI Jersey and Bibshorts (Look for them in Spring 20!)
Oakley Jawbreakers with Prizm Road lenses.
No Baselayer.


The event was awesome. It was a whirlwind trip, but I'm very happy to have done it. Thanks to everyone for all the information shared.

Also, Congrats to Jordan who looks like he had a strong ride

---

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I should have listened to Tom A, Slowman and probably gone, at a minimum, with larger tires and maybe latex (or at least not the G Ones!). I may do a more detailed race report later but long story short, I decided to run the G One Speed 30s tubeless. On Saturday I did a warm up ride with our group, ran over some brown glass coming back up out of Del Dios and blew a sidewall - it wouldn't seal for shit and I had to throw in a tube after booting. Tire was trashed so I picked up a Donnelly CDG 30 for the rear at the Expo and had the Velofix guys mount tubeless (thanks guys!). Seemed like a good tire and I thought had good traction for Sunday's ride on the rear wheel.

Sunday was tough as expected, like most I probably went out a bit too hard with the Wave 1 "neutral start" but settled in by the Black Canyon climb and felt relatively decent coming back down out of Mesa Grande all the way through Sandy Bandy and the exist of Mule Trail. I made it through the 101 mile rest stop a little more than 6 hours into the day feeling pretty good and had visions of 8:20 or 8:30 or so running through my head, which I thought would be pretty respectable on my early season Midwest fitness (i.e., longest ride in 2018 was a little over 3 hours). As I headed back into the Lake Hodges/Del Dios sections I got into a good rhythm again, feeling like I had stayed up on nutrition and then at mile 108 (2.5 miles from end of last real nasty dirt of day) I punctured the G One Speed front on one of the last steep rocky uphills - didn't think I picked a bad line, just shit happens. F**k me. I looked at my sidewall, the hole was not too big, I spun the tire few times, prayed for the sealant to do its job, gave it a little time and put a little Co2 in - try to ride and it starts leaking again. Double f**k me. Get out the GI plugger repair kit, the plugs are a sticky mess, can't into the hole to seal. Triple f**k me. Decide to put in a tube, have to deal with the sealant messiness (you know the drill) and surprise, surprise, tire is a bitch to get off and back on. All told a 25 minute misadventure. A little later I have a issue with my rear rotor making horrific sounds and slowing me down majorly, turns out I must have left my seat bag open and an inner tube had fallen out and wrapped around the rotor (!!!)- this takes another several minutes to fix - what a disaster. It has now taken me 43 minutes to cover approximately 3 miles.

Fortunately one of my teammates had passed me towards the end of this comedy of errors, and as I'm getting toward the end of Lemonshittensberg or whatever this fourth circle of hell is called, I see him heading back up Del Dios Hwy on the road section, so I blaze through the aid station at 111 and bridge up to him on the long climb, and we ultimately head in together. All told, the last 25 miles took me over 2 hours and 30 minutes to complete (with the mechanical time largely self-induced and probably aggravated by the fact that my brain was fried by this point, as evidenced by the rear rotor incident). Total sh*tshow. Ultimateyly I rolled in 9:15 gun time and drink lots of beer, eat waffles with ice cream and maple syrup, watch the awards and get truly humbled by the fact that the podium crew rode the course in 6:35-ish - absolutely unbelievable. Fun race, but not sure it's very doable (well) for those of us confined largely to basement trainer rides from November to March (at least that's what I'm going to tell myself), and if so, better make good choices on gear and have some good luck.

you and jordan both did great.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Tom,

That looks nice. I think you and Dan were right on tires, even though most people I saw were on 28s. If I had more time before Sunday I would have liked to test a few different tires, but I now agree with you that for most, wider would be better (and really good sidewall protection is key). Obviously it's only an N=1 review, but the G Ones did not acquit themselves well in my view. (See my other post above for more detail.) I'd say there's always next year but I'm not sure I'll be back - it's a great event but tough for me to be fit enough to ride well this early in the season as long as I remain in the Windy City.

Great learning experience and a lot of fun for me. (Fingers crossed on the KOM jersey - I'm the "provisional" winner as of now.)

Stuff I got right:
- Gearing: 46x10/42 was perfect. This was the one thing that I really nailed. I never wanted more gearing than I had and I used the full range with ease.

- Nutrition/hydration. I ate and drank a lot. And early. And I rode strong through the end. That SiS stuff on course was really nice too. Much better than at some races. I certainly prefer First Endurance, but I thought the SiS stuff was first rate. No complaints about on course support by any means.

- Clothing. Arm warmers and vest to start, but dressed for heat under that. LG summer/climbers jersey (it's basically mesh) and a super light sleeveless base layer. When it got hot in the backside, I was fine. Long finger gloves were fine the whole day. But maybe would have done fine and been a bit happier with roadie gloves.

- Glasses. I used Oakley EVZero with Prizm Trail lenses. These are really bright and not the best choice for road riding, but they made up for it in the patchy light on the trails.

- Saddle. I used my gravel/MTB saddle of choice rather than my road saddle of choice, and for sure that helped with steering and bike control.

Stuff I didn't get right:
- Tires. I rode the Zipp RT28 on Zipp 303 tubeless. The tires were great from a durability standpoint. They measure at 29.5mm on the rim, and I ran them at 65psi. They were great for climbing and on the flats, but for me - not being a great dirt bike handler - these were really not ideal on the technical descents. I got totally annihilated on that, and some of that was obviously a lack of experience, but I also think that I could have benefitted with wider tires and/or something with more tread on the side to grip in the corners. I just needed more grip. Especially since I give up a bunch in terms of experience/skill on that stuff but make a lot of it up on the road side, I think something with side knobs and/or more volume would have been - for me - a better choice. The RT28 were amazingly durable and grippy when going up - I only had to get off my bike once, in the rock garden near the end that basically everyone got off for. But they drifted too much for me in the corners at higher speed.

- Navigation. I downloaded the GPX file and set it up as a course and then forgot to load it at race start. Had two minor - and likely inconsequential - navigation errors when I was stuck in no man's land between groups, and I this was just because I forgot to actually load the map. Details matter...

Stuff that I'm undecided on or that was a wash:
- MTB shoes. I basically never needed my MTB shoes and probably would have been happier in my road shoes with speedplays. But this was not really here nor there.

- Position. I rode my road position, which is a bit lower in the front and a bit steeper (though still very slack) as compared with what I ride on my gravel bike. I think a bit more upright position and a bit slacker is better off road (less weight on the front wheel), though I'm still refining this idea in my mind. I ride a fairly "aggressive" road position, and I think this isn't "ideal" for off road, but I doubt it mattered too much.

TL;DR - gearing was good. tires were not ideal. overall, I need to be better at riding on dirt.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Sorry to hear about the trouble.

My race was going great, then started to derail when I again experienced the sensation of my stomach not wanting to accept any nutrition around mile 65. After seeing everything I had eaten on the day around mile 93, I felt better and tried to eat a lot at the 95 mile aid station. About 10 miles later I pulled the plug as I could see the signs of the distress my body was screaming at me.

Bummed. I ride these roads and trails all the time with no issues. I have some thingsto figure out. It seems that my body will work and work and work, but for some reason I have a problem continuing fueling in races. I've tried a lot of solutions and it all works in training, but can't seem to make it work on race day.

In any case, my setup was perfect and I would run it again, with possibly lighter wheels. I had zero flats and the gearing was just what I needed. With the WTB's I can really let it rip on the dirt/ rocky descents, have excellent traction in the dirt/ gravel/ sand, and they still roll really well on the road.

- Canyon Inflite SLX 9.0 disc size XL
- 46/36
- 11x32 cassette
- WTB Exposure 30's tubeless at 65 PSI

I'll be riding the route again in a week or so. Looking forward to possibly throwing some bigger tires on and racing the RPI stage race in August/ September.

Congrats to everyone that finished this year!

Jake

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Get outside!