Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
BWR Setup
Quote | Reply
Eight weeks to go but, it's a holiday (for some of us in the US at least) so I figured I'd throw my planned setup out there for all you wise and experienced STers to critique.

Since my road bike is not really an option (2014 Venge with old Zipp 404s with the bad brake tracks), I'm planning to ride my 2016 Boone 9 which has Aeolus 3 TLR D3 running tubeless (thinking Schwalbe pro one 28s). Current drive train is Ultegra 46/36 (with a Quarq Elsa) and 11-28 in the back. Other than gruppo, bike is set up about as light as can be.

Thoughts on this setup? I may swap out to a 11-32 on the cassette, just not an expert on Ultegra and whether I need to then run a longer cage derailleur. To the extent relevant, I will probably be about a 4.3 w/kg rider on race day, assuming I'm at 74-75ish kilos (need to lose about 3 kilos of winter weight before then). From what I've read, I think the extra gear in back could come in handy, especially late in the day on Double Peak.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You'll need the longer cage RD for the 32 tooth cassette.

I'll be running an SWorks Crux with i9's new i9.65 wheels. Tires, unsure, something tubeless in the 28 - 32 range. I'll make that decision as they reveal more of the course. Saying it's going to be more dirt that in previous years.

Taking the bike out of CX mode with a longer & lower cockpit, 50/34 chainrings. 11-32 cassette. Unsure if I'll run my powermeter.

I'm looking for a different top-tube bag. I have a Lezyne that I use on my mountain bike, but looking at it yesterday while riding, it's wider than my top-tube and not looking too sleek. Could of sworn that I bought a Specialized Remora at one point, but cannot find it.

The above poster is a physiologist employed by PEARL iZUMi. However, statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of PEARL iZUMI in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
instagram.com/robertpickels
twitter.com/RobertPickels
Last edited by: xtrpickels: Feb 19, 18 7:12
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cool, thanks Robert. I take it top tube is largely for solid nutrition? I was planning to go with three 20 oz bottles at the start (two in the frame, one in the back jersey pocket) of either custom mix of Carbo Pro or Maurten 320 (the latter of which I've been trying lately and like) and electrolytes to make sure I have 3+ hours of liquid fuel onboard from start but maybe that's overkill? Nutrition plan is not really developed at this point other than I have done a couple of 8-9 hr races the last two years so I know I can live off the land later in the ride if the aid stations are reasonably well stocked, but I like to have a good base of my own fuel for first 1/3 of the race.

Interesting about more dirt, may push me more toward 30-32 as well.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sscott43 wrote:
Eight weeks to go but, it's a holiday (for some of us in the US at least) so I figured I'd throw my planned setup out there for all you wise and experienced STers to critique.

Since my road bike is not really an option (2014 Venge with old Zipp 404s with the bad brake tracks), I'm planning to ride my 2016 Boone 9 which has Aeolus 3 TLR D3 running tubeless (thinking Schwalbe pro one 28s). Current drive train is Ultegra 46/36 (with a Quarq Elsa) and 11-28 in the back. Other than gruppo, bike is set up about as light as can be.

Thoughts on this setup? I may swap out to a 11-32 on the cassette, just not an expert on Ultegra and whether I need to then run a longer cage derailleur. To the extent relevant, I will probably be about a 4.3 w/kg rider on race day, assuming I'm at 74-75ish kilos (need to lose about 3 kilos of winter weight before then). From what I've read, I think the extra gear in back could come in handy, especially late in the day on Double Peak.

very few places you'd need a 32. but you'll need it on the last climb ;-(

if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Dan - I had originally been leaning to 30 or 32s based on everything I've read but had a fellow rider say he thought 28s were sufficient, although he's a big gravel rider though (multiple time DK200 guy) and missed BWR last year after doing 2015-2016, so maybe his perspective is a bit skewed.

I ride a decent amount of cross/gravel but based on what I'm hearing, I make end up with something like the G One Speed 30s or Sector 32s - I am currently against going with a 35/38 since I don't want to lose too much time on the paved but I might be thinking about this wrong; ultimately tire choice could end up there if route seems heavy on the dirt.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.


I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
4.3 w/kg is pretty strong. Another thing to consider would be finding a 34 ring for your crank. You would have close to the same low gear as a 36/32, but you could keep the same chain, cassette and rear derailleur.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [cholla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cholla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.


I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?

I’m wondering about that. My original thought of 28s came after talking to a 2015-16 finisher who thought 32s were overkill. But it seems like MM has been upping the dirt portion every year so maybe it’s morphing into a ride where the trade off pushes more toward fast rolling but wider tires? I will keep an eye on the course release and definitely give a RR afterward.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
sscott43 wrote:
Eight weeks to go but, it's a holiday (for some of us in the US at least) so I figured I'd throw my planned setup out there for all you wise and experienced STers to critique.

Since my road bike is not really an option (2014 Venge with old Zipp 404s with the bad brake tracks), I'm planning to ride my 2016 Boone 9 which has Aeolus 3 TLR D3 running tubeless (thinking Schwalbe pro one 28s). Current drive train is Ultegra 46/36 (with a Quarq Elsa) and 11-28 in the back. Other than gruppo, bike is set up about as light as can be.

Thoughts on this setup? I may swap out to a 11-32 on the cassette, just not an expert on Ultegra and whether I need to then run a longer cage derailleur. To the extent relevant, I will probably be about a 4.3 w/kg rider on race day, assuming I'm at 74-75ish kilos (need to lose about 3 kilos of winter weight before then). From what I've read, I think the extra gear in back could come in handy, especially late in the day on Double Peak.


very few places you'd need a 32. but you'll need it on the last climb ;-(

if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.


...and if you're smart, fast-rolling 42mm...no matter the skill level ;-)

(This is coming from someone who's done it on 25mm, 27mm, and 42mm -measured width- tires...oh, and that's the full course, not the Wafer, for each time :-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Feb 19, 18 8:18
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sscott43 wrote:
cholla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.


I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?

I’m wondering about that. My original thought of 28s came after talking to a 2015-16 finisher who thought 32s were overkill. But it seems like MM has been upping the dirt portion every year so maybe it’s morphing into a ride where the trade off pushes more toward fast rolling but wider tires? I will keep an eye on the course release and definitely give a RR afterward.

The key statement above is "fast rolling but wider". You won't give up anything on the road to guys running "durable" 28s or narrower, but you'll REALLY notice it later in the dirt parts of the route, especially if they keep in the long wash-boarded dirt road sections out near Sutherland Dam/Julian (something the Wafer route riders didn't experience).

"Fast rolling", though...many wider tires aren't so fast...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom - Any advise on what fast rolling 42mm options we have?
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [cholla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cholla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.



I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?

i saw a lot of guys riding 25s right around me last year. and i'm pretty sure they wished they were on 35s. i didn't have any trouble keeping up with them on the road. i think they were fairly uncomfortable on the more difficult offroad.

i think tom has a pretty good perspective, having ridden it all the ways that he has.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
turdburgler wrote:
Tom - Any advise on what fast rolling 42mm options we have?
Compass Snoqualmie Pass are 700x42, and can be run tubeless.

Another fast roller in that range is the Challenge Strada Bianca Pro 700x 36C, which will measure more like 38-40 on wider rims, but you'll need to run latex tubes in those since they aren't tubeless ready. No big deal though, I rode the Compass tires mentioned above with latex tubes last year with no issues..

I haven't rolled any 650b tires...yet...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
cholla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.



I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?

i saw a lot of guys riding 25s right around me last year. and i'm pretty sure they wished they were on 35s. i didn't have any trouble keeping up with them on the road. i think they were fairly uncomfortable on the more difficult offroad.

i think tom has a pretty good perspective, having ridden it all the ways that he has.

Thanks...yeah, riding the 42s last year was a bit of an epiphany for me. Sure, BWR IS rideable on narrower stuff (in fact, that was part of BWRs original appeal, i.e. riding dirt on narrow tire road bikes), but it's SOO much more enjoyable on wide, fast tires. The fun factor in the dirt increases greatly, and the flotation in places like Sandy Bandy is awesome. You get way less beat up overall. I had my highest relative placing on the 42s by far, even despite my bonking before double-peak.

I don't think I'm doing it this again this year though...for multiple reasons...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm guessing that I will probably stick with tubeless just to avoid pinch flats and because that's what I've been typically been running on my Aeolus TLR D3 discs. I don't think you have a spreadsheet for these types of tires like your road tires but maybe I missed it. Assuming I go up from the G One Speeds to something in the 35-36 range, what about something like a Compass Bon John 35 (guessing/piecing together based on your various insights elsewhere)? Thanks for your contributions.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'll check out some of the pre-rides - right now I'm planning on my roadie ( Tarmac ) with Hutchenson Sector 28's. My backup plan would be to adapt my CX bike for more speed by swapping the crank & tires which would give me disc brakes and lots of tire options.

I've never done it - but guidance from local vets has been to optimize for the road sections. Being able to hold onto a fast paceline offers a lot of time!

Based on the comments here - I'm swaying back to the CX option.

" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [TriDevilDog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did BWR in 2016 with great fitness from IMNZ. I did it on a road set up, 53/39, 11/32, with 25's (not tubeless an only flatted on the road). That was a really really hard day based on my bike setup choice.

I live about a mile from Questhaven and I ride the local road and dirt a lot. This weekend, I did the first recon ride on my Canyon Inflite. I'm running a 2x setup with 46/36 and an 11/30 cassette. I put on some WTB Exposure 30's tubless for the ride.

My thoughts for this race:

- I will be putting a larger cassette on to get a better range. Double Peak at mile 120+, assuming it's in the ride, will be tough without some easier gearing. Not to mention some of the steeper dirt sections
- The Inflite is absolutely the best choice for me. I did Rock Cobbler on the same bike with WTB Cross Boss 35's last weekend (2nd ride on the bike), and it was great
- The WTB Exposure tire in a 30 offers what I see as the perfect balance for road and dirt. Sure you can do it on 25's, 28's, or larger. But the 30 is great on and off the road from what I have seen
- Mountain Biking definitely helps stay off the brakes on the steep and rocky sections. Just let it rip
- I'm a big guy so nutrition will be very important. Eat lots and frequently
- I'll probably wear a 1.5 liter hydration pack, it really helps me stay up on hydration, and carry my flat kit, and makes my food easily accessible on the straps. (I ran this setup at Cape Epic last year and it was perfect, getting food poisoning otherwise was not)
- MTB shoes will be my choice. SWorks XC or Giro Empires. I feel confident I can ride almost the entire course, but at some point you will almost certainly happen upon a person or 10 that have backed up and require unclipping. I have destroyed a number of pairs of good SWorks road shoes in these types of events. MTB shoes will take the beating and keep on ticking.

I can't wait to see what MMX puts together this year. It should be shorter. Like 130 miles rather than 140+ of the past. Still a big day!

jake

http://www.AquaSphereSwim.com
http://www.MichaelPhelps.com
Last edited by: jakers: Feb 19, 18 16:40
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sscott43 wrote:
I'm guessing that I will probably stick with tubeless just to avoid pinch flats and because that's what I've been typically been running on my Aeolus TLR D3 discs. I don't think you have a spreadsheet for these types of tires like your road tires but maybe I missed it. Assuming I go up from the G One Speeds to something in the 35-36 range, what about something like a Compass Bon John 35 (guessing/piecing together based on your various insights elsewhere)? Thanks for your contributions.


I haven't done a blog post on some of the intial testing I've done...mostly because I'm still working out some of the "kinks" in testing of these kinds of tires...but, I DID share some of the preliminary testing here:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6471664#p6471664

Somewhat surprisingly, the Bon Jons didn't roll as well as touted, or expected. Not sure why that would be, but I've got to believe the numbers since the testing wasn't out of the ordinary. I've asked Jan Heine if there could be some batch-to-batch variation in perhaps sidewall rubber thickness, but he's apparently somewhat sensitive on the subject...even though he's admitted in the past to batch-to-batch changes in the bead structures...so, who knows? (Probably only someone at Panaracer ;-)

At the 35-36mm size, I'd roll the Challenge Strada Bianca Pro tires with latex tubes over the Bon Jons any day...there's a 10W on-road difference even at just 20kph.

BTW, in my opinion, if you're worrying about pinch-flats, then you can do better just using a larger tire to avoid that rather than saying "tubeless!". Sometimes finding a tubeless tire that "fits the bill" can be a bit daunting...unless you don't care if it's slow, that is ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [cholla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cholla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.



I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?

I forgot to address this earlier...but the answer is: There was significantly more dirt, and more dirt later in the course in 2017, than any year before.

It sounds as if that trend is going to continue for 2018...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The 23mm Pro One measures out between 26-27mm when mounted on the Aeolus TLRs with their wide internal width. I would think the 28mm Pro One would measure out at least 30mm. I would stick with that.

I would drop the little ring to a 34T and call it a day on drivetrain. Cheaper and simpler than changing cassette and possibly needing to change the RD.

Your currently contemplated setup is already near ideal IMHO.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What would be your opinion on those with latex tubes vs G One Speed 35 setup tubeless? I actually am a huge latex fan (have run latex on Challenge Almanzos on my commuter forever plus on my roadie typically with Corsa Speeds) but I feel like I "should" be running tubeless to take advantage of the TLR Aeolus.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks, that's good to hear. I definitely am going to switch to 50/34 front rings for a host of reasons . The interesting thing about BWR is the polarization in opinion - there seem to be a number of folks who say 28/30 is sufficient, and then others (in this thread, with the obvious credibility/expertise of Dan and Tom A.) who gravitate to 35/38/42. It probably demonstrates how good all the tires are at all these ranges and we're probably all splitting hairs, but over 8 plus (or maybe 8 minus if all goes well) hours, those "marginal gains" can make a difference.
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sscott43 wrote:
What would be your opinion on those with latex tubes vs G One Speed 35 setup tubeless? I actually am a huge latex fan (have run latex on Challenge Almanzos on my commuter forever plus on my roadie typically with Corsa Speeds) but I feel like I "should" be running tubeless to take advantage of the TLR Aeolus.

I have no idea...as I've seen so far, the only way to know is to test. For example, I had high hopes for some Vittoria models based on their construction, but they disappointed greatly...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sscott43 wrote:
Thanks, that's good to hear. I definitely am going to switch to 50/34 front rings for a host of reasons . The interesting thing about BWR is the polarization in opinion - there seem to be a number of folks who say 28/30 is sufficient, and then others (in this thread, with the obvious credibility/expertise of Dan and Tom A.) who gravitate to 35/38/42. It probably demonstrates how good all the tires are at all these ranges and we're probably all splitting hairs, but over 8 plus (or maybe 8 minus if all goes well) hours, those "marginal gains" can make a difference.

IMHO, a lot of those opinions are based on the assumption that larger tires are naturally slower on the paved road sections...which isn't necessarily the case, especially if you're drafting during those times ;-)

Being less than a year out from having fractured my pelvis, and having ridden the wide Snoqualmies a bunch on and off pavement, I decided to do the 2017 BWR with them. If anything, I did it just to improve "comfort". But, as I mentioned above, the experience was a bit of an epiphany as to their suitability for the ENTIRE course, and I finished with my highest placing (by far) in my 3 participations (2013, 2016, & 2017)...and I had even bonked so badly I almost pulled out at "The Oasis" stop. (BTW, the bonking was partly due to forgetting to eat enough because I was having so much fun bombing the later dirt sections)

Again, just my 2 centavos...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks again, Tom, I most definitely appreciate your centavos. Not sure I can run 42s on the Boone so I might be stuck in the 30-36 range. Going to be an interesting choice no matter what (which is probably what MMX wants in designing this devilish event). If nothing else, the question of the best tire gives me something to geek out over for the next couple months. :)
Last edited by: sscott43: Feb 19, 18 18:50
Quote Reply

Prev Next