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Re: BWR Setup [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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Apologies. I completely missed your question to me earlier.
FWIW, I do not have ProOne's to compare to. Interesting to hear they are similar.

Let me know what differences you perceive between them.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
hvywghttrigy wrote:
Tom,

I am currently rolling a Panaracer Gravel King SK 35C, what is your thought on Maxxis Re-Fuse Tire in a 32c tubeless? I am running XTR wheels which are 21mm wide.

Also, just received an email regarding one of the segments, looks like the Lake Hodges parts are definitely part of the course. Rode this part on the first recon ride and it is pretty techincal with lots of large boulders and some 'hike-a-bike' sections.

Chris


I don't have any direct experience with the Re-Fuse, but a friend of mine likes them on his all-road rig...and rode those in BWR 2 years ago.

Yeah, I saw that email...that's the fun part (IMO) that was added last year that most likely contributed to my "bonk" (having too much fun to remember to eat...doh!). That was one of the section that made me very glad about my 44C width tire choice :-)


Tom,

I agree that section made me glad i had my 35Cs but the rest of of the ride i wish i had 32s.

Chris
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Re: BWR Setup [hvywghttrigy] [ In reply to ]
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Does any one know a good picture or video of the Hodges section?

I've searched the internet, but frankly am not sure which of the videos and pictures are applicable.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
Last edited by: xtrpickels: Mar 8, 18 11:31
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Re: BWR Setup [hvywghttrigy] [ In reply to ]
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hvywghttrigy wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
hvywghttrigy wrote:
Tom,

I am currently rolling a Panaracer Gravel King SK 35C, what is your thought on Maxxis Re-Fuse Tire in a 32c tubeless? I am running XTR wheels which are 21mm wide.

Also, just received an email regarding one of the segments, looks like the Lake Hodges parts are definitely part of the course. Rode this part on the first recon ride and it is pretty techincal with lots of large boulders and some 'hike-a-bike' sections.

Chris


I don't have any direct experience with the Re-Fuse, but a friend of mine likes them on his all-road rig...and rode those in BWR 2 years ago.

Yeah, I saw that email...that's the fun part (IMO) that was added last year that most likely contributed to my "bonk" (having too much fun to remember to eat...doh!). That was one of the section that made me very glad about my 44C width tire choice :-)


Tom,

I agree that section made me glad i had my 35Cs but the rest of of the ride i wish i had 32s.

Chris

Aaah, but that's why knowing which of the larger tires don't slow you down on the pavement is important (I know some folks have snickered at me for roller testing "all-road" tires ;-)

It's also why I think going even LARGER (like the Compass 44s) can be a good call...the lower pressures combined with the flexible casings counteracts by a fair amount the lack of significant texture or knobs when on dirt, yet don't slow you down as much as knobby tires on pavement. And they're actually faster rolling than a LOT of the narrower smooth tires people ride, which tend to have stiffer casings because they're worried about pinch flats or bottoming due to the smaller tire volumes.

When a larger tire that performs much better on dirt than narrow tire options can ALSO roll basically like a 23c Conti GP4KS on the pavement, that's a pretty tough combination to beat.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
Does any one know a good picture or video of the Hodges section?

I've searched the internet, but frankly am not sure which of the videos and pictures are applicable.


Here's a photo of some of the higher speed stuff you'll encounter.



-SD
Last edited by: SuperDave: Mar 8, 18 15:49
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Re: BWR Setup [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure that'll be one of many times where I wished I knew where I was going.

Although, if I flat and I'm out of water, there will be a cornucopia of replacements...

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: BWR Setup [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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SuperDave wrote:
xtrpickels wrote:
Does any one know a good picture or video of the Hodges section?

I've searched the internet, but frankly am not sure which of the videos and pictures are applicable.


Here's a photo of some of the higher speed stuff you'll encounter.



-SD

Going UP that on a skinny-tired road bike is REALLY fun...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
SuperDave wrote:
xtrpickels wrote:
Does any one know a good picture or video of the Hodges section?

I've searched the internet, but frankly am not sure which of the videos and pictures are applicable.


Here's a photo of some of the higher speed stuff you'll encounter.



-SD


I was gruntled with my choice that year on all the sections.

Going UP that on a skinny-tired road bike is REALLY fun...

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: BWR Setup [cholla] [ In reply to ]
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cholla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
if you're REALLY good, you can ride it on 28mm tires. if you're quite good, 32mm. if you're pretty good, 35mm. if you're very average (like me), 38mm tires.



I'd love for this quote to be true, but I am nowhere near the front and rode BWR in 2015 on tubeless 25s. Was the course easier then?

The slower you go the more reasonable it is to try to navigate on 25mm tires.
The course has become much more "mixed surface" vs. the road race with a little dirt as it was in '13, '14, '15 (even with the rain).

-SD

https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era
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Re: BWR Setup [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
Nutrition Question for the experienced among us.

In the past, have they handed full bottles as it seems some pictures suggest or do they have coolers to fill bottles from?

Just Saw in an e-mail that the 2018 ride will have SIS Hydration and Clif Bars.

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: BWR Setup [sscott43] [ In reply to ]
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To the OP-
Did you ever try the 32t cassette with the short cage r. der?

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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At what tire width (if any) does an aero rim lose aero advantage over a shallow rim?

Is something like a 404 still more aero than a 202 when you put a 38mm or 43mm tire on it? I'm guessing that the leading edge probably isn't that aero since the big tire is punching such a big hole through the air, but maybe the trailing edge is?
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Re: BWR Setup [sxevegan] [ In reply to ]
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sxevegan wrote:
At what tire width (if any) does an aero rim lose aero advantage over a shallow rim?

Is something like a 404 still more aero than a 202 when you put a 38mm or 43mm tire on it? I'm guessing that the leading edge probably isn't that aero since the big tire is punching such a big hole through the air, but maybe the trailing edge is?

Well...there still can be a "splitter" type effect on the leading edge for having a long feature behind the tire...


Plus, there'll be less rotational spoke drag, due to the spokes being shorter (and most likely bladed on the deep wheel)...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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SuperDave wrote:
The slower you go the more reasonable it is to try to navigate on 25mm tires.

Damn, I hate that this quote makes perfect sense!
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Re: BWR Setup [cholla] [ In reply to ]
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Hello cholla and All,

Course description: https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/...n-the-dirty-details/



A picture is worth a thousand words .......


Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
Last edited by: nealhe: Mar 20, 18 13:52
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Re: BWR Setup [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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For what it's worth, my 2 cents...

I rode a big chunk of what the route has seen in the past. Including a lot of the dirt. All I can say is pray for rain in the early days of the week leading up to the event. Black Canyon was hard packed from the light traffic that goes through after the weekly rain we have been getting. Overall, the dirt was good, except for where folks had ridden horses before the trails dry through Lake Hodges.


I rode on 25's, 52x36, 11x30, on a Canyon Ultimate, and I bonked big time on the way back, but that was my fault for not loading up at a gas station in Ramona. The bike was perfect, but disc brakes are missing.

On the big day, I'll ride 30's or maybe 32's, tubeless, 46/36 and 11x32 (maybe bigger), on a Canyon Inflite.

Please don't under estimate the large amount of road miles that include some of the biggest climbs of the day. Eat, Eat, Eat, Drink, Drink, Drink! Seth nailed it in this blog post!


jake

Get outside!
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Re: BWR Setup [jakers] [ In reply to ]
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jakers wrote:

Seth nailed it in this blog post!


Except for this part:
"As a matter of accuracy, the wider the tire, the better for the dirt sections. You can go faster in the dirt with 32mm tires than with 28mm or 25mm, as the skinnier tires don’t float like the wider ones and tend to dig down into the dirt, especially on very loose sand. The problem is that when you get to the road on the wider tires, the rolling resistance becomes an issue… for nearly 100 miles."

Wider tires does not necessarily mean higher rolling resistance...in fact, I'd say that the wider you go, the faster the casing you can "get away with" since bottoming it is less likely (the majority of flats on BWR I would assume are from impacts, not punctures).

Personally, I think when people decide to go wider on the tires, they don't go wide enough...and so they're then stuck in the vicious cycle of riding a less than optimal width and pressure, and then trying to compensate by going overboard on casing "durability"...and then thinking that wider is going to make them slower on the road. It doesn't have to be so.

Also, IMO the heat of last year was unusual for BWR, and more about the 2017 event occurring ~1 month later than it traditionally had been held. This year it's back to the "normal" early-April date. In my experience, the typical weather-related thing you need to worry about is how cold the start is going to be, and then judging how much clothing you're going to wear since you'll be lugging it around all day once it warms up ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [jakers] [ In reply to ]
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Additionally, I take this as an indication that many folks aren't choosing the correct tire width:

"Riders also need to be prepared for flats and be ready to fix them on their own despite the event having roving mechanics on the dirt sections and many on-course support vehicles. As many as half the riders will flat, and as many as half will be flummoxed by the physics of tire removal. Another half will not have enough tubes. The final 50% will run out of CO2 cartridges, and the last half will take this as an omen from Dog that they should sag their way back to the start/finish for fresh beer and treats."

In the 3 times I've ridden BWR, I've only had one flat, and that was a "latent" pinch flat on a 26C tire I was running at ~75psi in a latex tube...and I didn't know it had occurred until the rear tire went soft ~10 miles past the last dirt section I'd ridden through (one feature of latex tubes is that they are more immune to pinch flats than butyl, and when they do, they tend to lose air quite slowly). Last year, with the 44s (actually measured 42mm on my rims) ...also with latex, although I have those same tires setup tubeless now...I cruised through the course with nary a worry about pinch flatting, even though I was running 35/40psi F/R :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough.

I did it in 2016 on 25's with standard tubes and only flatted on the road.

I rode a lot of the dirt and rocky sections this weekend on 25's with standard tubes at 110psi and didn't flat or worry about flatting.

In my view, I think that line choice has a lot to do with flats on the dirt sections. Choose the right line and you should be ok.

jake

Get outside!
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Re: BWR Setup [jakers] [ In reply to ]
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jakers wrote:
Fair enough.

I did it in 2016 on 25's with standard tubes and only flatted on the road.

I rode a lot of the dirt and rocky sections this weekend on 25's with standard tubes at 110psi and didn't flat or worry about flatting.

Woah....how much do you weigh??


jakers wrote:
In my view, I think that line choice has a lot to do with flats on the dirt sections. Choose the right line and you should be ok.

Yup...line choice is very helpful in preserving tires.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:


Woah....how much do you weigh??

Around 190ish (I'm also tall, not that it helps). Running anything less than 100PSI and I flat almost every single ride on 25's.

jake

Get outside!
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Re: BWR Setup [jakers] [ In reply to ]
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jakers wrote:
Tom A. wrote:


Woah....how much do you weigh??


Around 190ish (I'm also tall, not that it helps). Running anything less than 100PSI and I flat almost every single ride on 25's.

That's a clue that you aren't running big enough tires :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: BWR Setup [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
jakers wrote:
Tom A. wrote:



That's a clue that you aren't running big enough tires :-)

I should specify that at lower pressures, I flat on the road. I rarely flat on dirt, but when I do, I double flat. #sendit

jake

Get outside!
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Re: BWR Setup [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe wrote:


After seeing this, should I be re-thinking the majority of internet advice that says to use road shoes?

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com
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Re: BWR Setup [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
nealhe wrote:




After seeing this, should I be re-thinking the majority of internet advice that says to use road shoes?

Yup. Even in the less dirt-intensive events of 2013 and 2016 I threw Egg-beater pedals on my bike...there's always at least a couple of spots you're going to need to walk through, even if it's just a sand pit or to get around/over a gate.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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