Any race I have to drive up or down the 400 on a weekend is out for me. ;)

I've been looking around for the confirmed start list for the PRO race. I'm going to be there on the day with a group of training buddies and I'd like to know who I have the potential opportunity to see race. I haven't found anything published anywhere. Are these details that are easy to find typically?

Any help is appreciated.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Considering IM Muskoka, as it is still open. According to my Garmin from Muskoka 70.3 in 2013 the bike was 58.1 miles with 3408ft of gain (is that accurate?). If accurate, how does roughly 6800ft of gain over 112 miles compare to other Ironman courses? My Garmin also gave me 37 total feet of gain for Florida's 112 bike.

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

I recently rode the course and the final tallies my Garmin gave me were:

• 95.5km
  Distance
  
• 1,353m
  Elevation
  
  

Strava Details here: https://www.strava.com/activities/310252331

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I have a buddy doing his first 70.3 this year. We were looking at the past results for M30-34, and the winners were only doing like 36km/h (even once adjusting for the 94km route). The mont tremblant M30-34 winner did 41km/h on the bike, and MT seems to have a reputation for a tough bike as well.

So I guess my/our question is: what's the deal with the bike course? Is it even hillier than IMMT, or is it always windy, or has there been bad weather the last couple years?

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

The only thing I have heard is Sanders mentioned he was doing the half in a post race interview at MT last weekend. The bib list has a few pros listed, no big names listed yet.

Muskoka has a lot more hills than Tremblant and unlike Tremblant, many of the hills have sharp turns at the bottom which means you have to scrub off a lot of speed on the descents. The conditions of the roads in Muskoka are also nowhere near as good as Tremblant. So yes, you can expect a significantly lower avg speed on the Muskoka bike course than the Tremblant bike course.

Thanks! That's exactly the kind of detail we were looking for. Sounds like that has inspired him to do a course-drive in the car on Saturday. Is that a workable idea? Is it going to be swarming with bikes?

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

I have done muskoka 70.3 before and last year did IMMT. I find muskoka a much more challenging bike course. In Mont Tremblant there were sections where you can settle in a cruise for a while. In muskoka the hills are nonstop. You crest one and bam there is another in your face. Classic sawtooth course. This year doing both the 70.3 and the full in muskoka and excited to have them both in my resume. In the past having been able to say I did muskoka 70.3 and with people who know races they respect the toughness of the course. A real test and potential meltdowns are possible if you overcook the bike.. It's kind of a real shame the 70.3 was moved to July. Had a nice conversation with Mirinda a couple years ago because the sept timing of the past races gave a good test to them just a month out from Kona. I have heard it was a favourite of Crowie for the same reason.

You can definitely do a course recon by car. The highway sections have wide shoulders so passing cyclists is not a problem. You will have to be more careful on the narrower more hilly/windy backroads which make up about half the bike course.

The Muskoka 70.3 course is one of the slowest out there for several reasons:

1. Obviously it's long at ~94 km. Coupled with the other factors that make it a slow course, average power is significantly lower than a fast 90 km course.
2. It's very hilly with well over 1,000 m (3,000 ft) of elevation gain, mostly in the form of unrelenting sharp climbs and descents ("sawtooth" terrain).
3. Sections of the course are on rough roads with lots of chipseal. Testing by STer rruff suggested that chipseal is ~1-2 km/h slower than normal asphalt.
4. The rough roads and chipseal not only directly reduce your speed by impacting Crr, but probably also have some adverse affect on the power you can sustain due to the vibration.
5. There are several turns that require hard braking.
6. Muskoka 70.3 used to be in September with temperatures typically in the low teens Celsius at the start of the bike. That means higher air density and tire rolling resistance. The new July date should be a fair bit warmer.

For all these reasons, only a handful of pro men have cracked 40 km/h average speed on the Muskoka 70.3 course.

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CodyBeals.com | Instagram | TikTok
ASICS | Ventum | Martin's | HED | VARLO | Shimano | 4iiii | Keystone Communications

Your elevation data looks a bit high...should be around 1100 to 1200m. Distance should be 94k.

Dev

What will be consider fast times on the bike for age groups 30-34 and 35-39 for the full?

What is the run like for the full?

One more reason for the slowness is T1. You get out of the water and there is this massive climb to run up to the top of the Deerhurst resort parking lot. Probably most age groupers spike their power to 400-500W (depending on weight) before they even get on the bike. The run to T1 is not super long, but slow. Also while the weather might be faster with a July temp on the bike, it may result in slower run times.

Also people should remember that the full IM course is not exactly 2x the 70.3. The first out and back to the main loop you do only once and in the full IM, you do the loop 2x.

The Garmin file I saw showed the 3 longest climbs to be only 2-3% grades, and the dude said there was very little braking before any of the uphills.

I guess we should believe Paul and Cody though!

Same course for everybody regardless.

Anything sub 5 on the bike would be impressive, to throw a number out there maybe 3.5 w/kg? Fwiw I've ridden tremblant 70.3 and muskoka 70.3 at very similar power on the same equipment and tremblant was 16 min faster.

Run course will be very weather dependent. They have flattened it from previous versions, still a few decent hills in it, but it's very exposed so sun/wind could have a big impact.

I could be wrong but my guess is 9:45 in either of those age groups puts you on the podium.

I had a 2:35 bike split at Muskoka and rode a 2:18 at the 70.3 WC at Tremblant. Factoring in the extra 2.5 miles at Muskoka there is probably a 10-12 min difference. At the IM distance I'd think any bike time under 5:15 at Muskoka would put you in a good position for the run.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/NateThomasTri
Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

Say youre a 140lb guy... disc wheel for Muskoka 140.6?

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

Absolutely yes. The answer is always DISC unless we're talking about only a handful of the most extreme triathlon courses.

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CodyBeals.com | Instagram | TikTok
ASICS | Ventum | Martin's | HED | VARLO | Shimano | 4iiii | Keystone Communications

Anybody know if it will be wave starts for the full?

Was originally mass, most recent I've heard lately is rolling start

Any idea registration #'s for the full so far?

I will check in on this for you guys. When originally announced last year, it was mass start. I THINK with a moderate field size wide lake and difficulty of bike course, mass would be just fine, but having done the rolling start again at IM Texas this year after first doing it at IMLP 2013, I am a big fan. At Muskoka a rolling start will make it ulta super duper clean, which I feel is a great thing.

The only downside for FOP guys is that they don't know where they are in the field, but we already have that problem at 70.3's with multiple wave fields (last weekend at Tremblant 70.3 I missed the podium by less than minute, but the reality was I was weak late in the run and stopped pushing myself).

Here is who is registered to race pro. I know that Cody for example is on the fence. We need to work on Cody's coaches so that they authorize a re match with the Colonel.

Sanders, Lionel

Beals, Cody

Amorelli, Igor

Beardsall, Andrew

Boggs, Ian

Brisindi, Patrice

Cavelier, Sacha

Chase, Nicholas

Crawford, Guy

Cyr, Edward

Eickelberg, Tom

Glavac, Nick

Gray, Nigel

Jolicoeur Desroches, Antoine

Lantz, Derek

Monnink, Jordan

Pawlaczyk, Kyle

Vanderlinden, Alex

Lentzke, Jennifer

Martin, Britta

Bevilaqua, Kate

Gordichuk, Alexandra

Huse, Sue

Jahn, Kirsty

Martineau, Caroline

Spieldenner, Jennifer

Thanks Dev! I'd love to see Cody & Lionel as a spectator rather than as 'SOUL CRUSHING' competitors as I have in the past at MSC events. Hoping for a great day with good conditions for all to have a safe day!

I'll be sure to take a shit ton of photos. Now it's finding out who's going to watch my dog for the day haha

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Just confirmed that the 140.6 is rolling start. Kind of bummed out that I will miss it as I am racing in Austria the same weekend! Next year for sure!

With a rolling swim start do you think it is beneficial to self seed yourself with slower swimmers so that you have more cyclists to slingshot past on the bike course?

With all the up and downs, I'd think you'd want fewer people to have to pass. Especially on the downhill around a corner, or on areas of poor surface.

I was looking forward to the mass start, and feel due to the lower participant numbers and the overall difficulty of the course it would have been a good one to keep as a mass start. Changes the race dynamics for sure. At the very least they should have a mass start at the beginning where the strong swimmers and folks competing vs. completing are encouraged to start, and let everyone else cross the mats when they feel comfortable. Maybe this is how it works, I've only ever done mass and loved it!

I'd like to know that also.

There are probably quite a few people on the fence, like me, who are waiting to do the half before deciding if they are tough enough to race the full. I've gone 9:34 at Tremblant and 9:38 at Kona and the idea of the full scares the crap out of me. However, it will be tough for everyone, and with 50 Kona slots and say 1200 people actually racing it will be statistically a good spot to try and qualify for the big show. I'm not counting any chickens, as I have a six month old at home and really just want to have fun out swimming, biking and running.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Ken,

Im in the same boat. Did Muskoka 70.3 in 2013 - 4:40:39 somehow managed 2nd in 30-34. Have a 9mo old at home now, been getting about 6-9 hours a week training.

I emailed the race and they said "you still have time to wait a bit to register", IM policy does not allow them to release how many people are currently registered. He did say that on July 16th the updated bib list will be out. I think if its still open then, Ill stalk everyone in the 30-34 group and make a decision!

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

I'm glad you're not in my age group as 4:40 is cooking on that course. :)

35-39 for me.

I can already feel how hard it will be to go up and down and then up and down and then up and down for 180km on race day. I think the run will be what puts me over the edge. If the run is "fair" then I'll probably be in.

I am very glad that the deadline is after the 70.3 so I can really see what I am going to get into...twice.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

I agree. Seed yourself where you should be. At Texas 140.6 I seeded myself at the back of the 65-70 and swam exactly 70 min (no wetsuit). I was immediately swimming with people of my speed and it was maxed relax. I could literally tune out immediately and get into the rythm that it takes 1 mile to get into during a mass start clusterf&*k crowded start.

I've done a 9:23 with a 1:11 swim so I know your theory, the problem is that people are going so much slower that the benefit is minimal. also you may end up swimming slower if you have to go around dudes in the water

2013 was the most competitive I've seen as everyone was going for worlds spots in MT. A few years back I got 2nd in M30-34 by just squeaking under 4:55!

My latest count from the recent participant list has it at 1200ish, I would think registration will stay open until mid august.

Dev (or anyone) how do you know where to seed yourself in a rolling start, are there markers, or do you just ask people around you?

LP 2013 and Texas 2015 they have volunteers with signs in 10 min buckets. Once you get in line, you ask people around you how fast they intend go and slot yourself in.

Does rolling start mean it's also a 'beach' Start?

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

Rolling starts are on land as you time only starts when you cross the timing wire and you get into the water.

Dev-

How does this course compare to Mooseman? Its sounds like more up and downs but no real big climbs like Mooseman?

This course looks like its going to come down to with patience on the bike. No big power spikes....just ride steady as you can with the hills. Age groups will be won by how you pace that bike. I can imagine too many will over bike the hills and blow up on the run.

OK I can comment on this as I did Mooseman 3x. I did St. Croix, Mooseman and Muskoka all in 2012 and the splits on the bike for all three was close to identical around 2:50 and all within a watt of average power between them (I did them all around 207 AP), but achieved in very different ways given how different the courses are. As Cody said, it's a saw tooth bike course while means patience is required. Lately I have been playing around with my application of power on hilly courses because I feel that I go faster when I jack up my power over 100% FTP at the top of hills that have a downhill after them where I go are zero watts. If I were to do Muskoka again, I would likely apply that strategy for climbs that have a downhill right afterwards. I would do this for the half IM, but not the full though. The full is too long to spike power even with downhill recovery. As a low weight moderately decent watts per kilo rider, I feel this is a better application of my power in half IM. Applying power on downhills where my Cda is not good is a waste of my power resources.

Interesting...thanks for sharing. I'm a larger athlete 183lbs so I'm not sure what approach to take. I think I should coast on the downhills since I'm a larger athlete and gain speed pretty well. This way I conserve some of my power. Maybe climb just above my overall projected AP for the climbs.

Hey,
Come up the 404 to the new Woodbine exit and follow 12 to 11.
Traffic in rush hour will be from between Steels and 16th. Then your cruising.
Easy as pie.
Hope to see you there.
Ns

I did a recon mission yesterday of the course starting in Baysville, I ended up missing the S.Portage turn of Brunel so ended up in Huntsville and reconnecting on Hwy 60. Needless to say, what was I thinking making this my first full!! As everyone has stated patience is definitely needed.
I don't have the luxury yet to ride with power so my strategy was to spin up the climbs and keep cadence at around 90rpm on the decents all with a target HR of 150.
During the climbs I was maxing out at 150/155 and recovering with a steady 90/100 rpm at 140bpm on the decents. I was trying to get into a rhythm using the decents with some reaching up to 60km/h but could not keep my momentum for the full climb on 2/3's of the course which was very frustrating!
Therefore starting Monday I am eating super clean and trying to shed 10/12lbs before August 30th.
Goodluck to all!!
I am open to any other bike strategies you may have for me.

I've been looking into this as my only choice for a full this year. How's this course compared to Wisconsin?

I have never done Wisconsin, but it seems like some of my friends who have done Wisconsin and IMLP found Wisconsin similar or marginally harder than LP. I suspect that Muskoka will be substantially more difficult in some ways (on the bike), but the run should be easier than LP. It still does not answer your question on Wisconsin though. I think that it ends up being slightly more difficult. I say you sign up and then report back with the proper comparison. That's the nice thing about this forum in that we have so many folks as a resource to share experiences.

Well, are we going to see a smackdown with Sanders or did your coach ban you from racing this coming weekend? I guess I should be getting a disk cover as a bare minimum!!!

In terms of this weekend are there road closures? I haven't see any communication?

OK, so any last moment panic. Is this going to be a no wetsuit swim (unlikely, but you know we have to cause a panic on ST). Any other questions you guys have and I will try to get them answered. By the way, any locals have an update on road conditions?

Rode the course last week. Roads are a bit sketchy from about 5-8k on North Portage Road (you'll hit this again on the way home), and Dwight Beach Road (~13-18k) is quite rough in patches as well, particularly the fast downhill after you turn onto it. That first km or so on Dwight Beach Rd is the most dangerous part of the course IMO for sure. Be careful and keep your heads up there my friends! Once you hit the main/highway roads, it's smooth sailing and you can make up for being a bit careful on those parts. Brunel and South Portage coming home were in much better shape than in 2013 when I last was there. Hope this is helpful! Despite the sketchy parts, it's a great bike course...one of my favourites for sure!

If anyone has any pull with the course organizers, I'd definitely suggest they have some sort of warning flags/postings on that section of Dwight Beach Road.

Dev ( and anyone with info about this)

I have been looking in to signing up for the full on August 30. I have a pretty nice training block going and signing up now would give me eight weeks to build to the appropriate fitness to attack the course. I have the week off before and after, and the race is driving distance from my home. All sounds good, right?

My issue (and I suspect a lot of people's issue) is, where the hell do I stay? The race hotel has only 400 rooms and is sold out. There are very few hotels near to the race. My wife schedules all of our travel/lodging so I have to trust her when she says that there is no place that she can find that is convenient to the race and that she is willing to stay. She tells me that there are probably less than 1,000 hotel rooms within a convenient distance to the race.

How does IM expect to sell out a race when there is not enough lodging for athletes? Again, my wife is my travel planner but I have to trust her when she says that there is no place for us to stay. If this is truly the case, then I suspect this race will never be a sell out.

Lodging help would be welcome from anyone. My wife sees these trips as vacation for her so we aren't staying in a Motel 6. It has to be at least somewhat nice.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

I'm renting a cottage with my friend for his 70.3. Is that a possibility? It is cottage country, so there's gotta be some nice ones.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

You are right. The actual race site itself has only so many rooms, but the town of Huntsville has plenty and the race goes to Huntsville too. Race morning you drive to a parking lot not far from the race site where they shuttle you in from. Not that much different than other races where they shuttle you to the swim start. This weekend, I am not staying at Deerhurst, but at a Motel 6 in town. Also check Deerhurst, Hidden Valley and Grandview all in walking distance for cancellations. Deerhurst is the host hotel, but the others are really close by. You are right, you have plenty of time to put a good block of training in. This is really nice this year that people actually have many open options. You won't be disappointed with the area and the race. It is the same RD group who put on the ITU World's back in 1992, so some of the most experienced folks in the biz.

Bracebridge, Dwight and Huntsville all have availability still. http://www.booking.com/...pty&sshis=0&

Did Wisconsin in 2011, and Muskoka 70.3 in 2013... Muskoka bike is, in my opinion, much harder than Wisconsin. Runs are pretty similar from what I remember (which isnt much).

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

Just rode the course, and I'll echo what dr pain said Dwight beach road is an accident waiting to happen, please take it easy for the few km. good luck to everyone racing on Sunday!

You sure it's a rolling start. Everything I've seen says wave start, and deep water start... rather than rolling beach start. Waves by age group, rather than swim times...

Since it is also Ontario long course championships, I'm pretty positive, they won't do rolling starts... (unless something has changed very recently)

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Adam

Euro-Sports.ca/The Foodery Team member

The rolling start that was mentioned is in regards to the140.6... The 70.3 will be waves as you described.

Yes, this is correct. 70.3 wave start 140.6 rolling although I would have thought with the numbers and wide start area and big climbs out of T1, mass would be fine as they are doing in Whistler.

Weather for the Sunday race is looking optimal for racing. Low of 10C high of 27C and sunny! I get to start the opposite of Tremblant where M50-54 started after the pros. This race we are last wave. I am hoping that some of the 50-54's from Tremblant 70.3 also come out!

One more thing for US guys, please note that the drink on the course is REGULAR Gatorade not Endurance Formula (this applies to all Canadian races). For the full IM, you'll be down ~ 300 mg sodium per bottle, so after 7 bottles down ~ 2grams which is getting substantial. For the half, count on being down by ~ 1 gram depending on how much you drink off course on the bike. That's probably not enough to make a major difference, but it can. I am adding a teaspoon of extra salt in the first bottle I start with (already high on sodium with Infinit) to compensate. Or salt tabs are an option, but I don't want to play around with that stuff while riding on the Muskoka course. To many hills, bumps, turns and a mix of rough pavement.

ANy fast pros racing?



.

Some guy named Lionel Sanders is racing Muskoka 70.3. Maybe you've heard of him. He's suppose to be reasonable on the bike and run.

Good luck to everyone racing today...perfect day forecast!

Also Cody Beals. Hopefully he will keep it close. And interesting.

This Sanders fella....so far a 2:16 bike followed by a sub 40 minute 11.3k run split!!. Hmm..


.

Bah, he only finished with a 4:02:58 with a 1:15 run


must have been tired. someone should tell him to stay off the elliptical

Vanderlinden was pretty impressive running up to 2nd at the finish, because he was well back after T2, but went out like a bat out of hell.... But it was over once Lionel took the lead shortly after 60km on the bike...

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Adam

Euro-Sports.ca/The Foodery Team member

I talked to Lionel post race and he said his legs felt flat after Tremblant which is understandable! He still ripped it up.

I just got back from Muskoka and the organization as usual was phenomenal....keep in mind this is the same RD crew who put on IM Canada in Penticton for years, so there are among the best in the biz. I have my thoughts on the full IM and although it will be tough, I think it will be easier than people think relative to the IM. The hardest 20K you only repeat once....the rest of the loop that you repeat twice is aerobar and pretty fast. I would say 80% of that is just as fast as Tremblant and 20% you get hammered by the sharp steep saw tooth stuff.

Here is my Garmin Connect File (2:41, 216AP, 225 NP).

https://connect.garmin.com/activity/824862864


This put my in the thick of the action in the 50-54. I came into T2 in 3rd but within 1 min of first (but no chance to run with Greg). Then it was pass 1 guy and get passed by 1, and ending in the same place at the finish as entered T2.


I looked at the time to the pros starting (45 minutes ahead of me) and was hoping I can get out of T2 just when Lionel Sanders arrived and I did exactly that!


In any case having gone through the 70.3 again 3 years later and having run the new "bumpy run course" (you are never on a flat, but there are also no really massive hills....the cumulation of hills just tears you up, I will post my thoughts on how I feel this new course will play out at the full 140.6 distance. My thought is the bike will only be slightly slower than Tremblant, and the run will be around the same. Swims are just as fast, transitions are equally long (my transitions were 4:03 + 1:13....almost identical to Tremblant and Placid).


I "don't" think this course will be "as scary" as people are thinking provided that you are fairly lean. If you are a heavier guy or gal, this course will destroy you, so there are still 8 weeks to get on the Macca approved cabbage and water diet (speaking of which, I better get on that since I have IM Whistler in 3 weeks....maybe tonite was my last ice cream before then)!

Dev, I appreciate your optimism for the 140.6, but I see carnage all over the run course :) I do agree that the bike splits will only be a little slower than Tremblant (tough to say just how much), but this run course will just wreck the majority of the field on a double loop. Beautiful race, really well run with great volunteers. My only complaint that I feel really needs to be addressed before the full is that first section of Dwight Beach Road. It just isn't safe.

I was thinking about the first section of the bike and I THINK that with the rolling start it will be a lot safer than wave start as there will be no clumps of riders. I found myself very frustrated having to slam my breaks constantly trying to find good places to pass groups of riders from waves in front of me (I went from the last swim wave). I am a solid tecnical descender and the speed differentials were a bit terrifying so I had to really play it safe. I think with the rolling start, the speed differentials that create the danger for fast and slower riders will largely go away.


For the run, yes, it is tough, but I don't see this run being tougher than IM LP and just a bit tougher than Tremblant. My perception is a bit skewed as I am lighter runner, but my comments are, to some degree directed at the ST crowd who I would largely classify as mid to advanced capability athletes (anyone who is worrying about latex in their tires, should also be worrying about body composition...I know one is a small spend and its magic watts, one is a lot of work just to lose a few pounds, but both cater to the same mentality of athlete). Yes, if you are heavy, the Muskoka course will be no fun, but not that much worse than LP. I think LP has a harder run. Texas has a harder run due to oppressive heat. Whistler has a similar difficulty run. This won't be IM Florida, but it's not going to be Norseman by any means (you could probably make a really insanely tough run in Muskoka).

I personally think that those who race this year, will be relatively happy that this course does not totally break people much worse than any of the local North East races like Termblant or LP.

My prediction? PAIN!

People better hope it's not an Ontario hot and humid August day, or then it will be PAIN x2! Not an inch of shade on that run course. Not too bad on Sunday, but could be brutal a couple hours later, 2 loops, and if the humidity strikes.

Dwight Beach Rd was ugly, and I think it will be ugly in August. It's so frustrating, because I can imagine how much fun that stretch would be with great pavement. The sketchiest part for me was actually at the bottle exchange. The guy in front of me wobbled while putting a bottle in. The road was already narrow (the volunteers were taking part of the road, too) and I was really trying to not cross the yellow line while skipping the exchange entirely. It was the closest I came to wrecking.

But of more interest to ST, I heard there were drafting penalties handed out! I was talking to one guy while clearing out transition that got busted, and he said 7 were caught in his bunch. Any other stories of this?

Cheers!

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Munq

The saw tooth terrain at Muskoka is very deceiving. I rode a 2:30 yesterday on a 243 avg/257 normalized. I felt like I rode 280-290 but the data includes zeros and lots of soft pedalling down all those small hills. A a result, heart rates fluctuates and power was all over the map. If I was doing the full I would be VERY careful to not surge on the hills. Be patient, smooth and consistent with your power - it will pay off with your run. Tremblant is an easier bike and easier run. You can hold consistent power for long periods of time and the run is essentially flat and shadded.

I had to pass around 1000 people alone on the bike (started in last wave finished 60 something overall). I literally did not see a single person drafting, but obviously I did not catch any guys riding faster in earlier age groups starting 30 min later, so who knows. Wildflower and Muskoka are the two single cleanest races I did in the last 5 years....both races this year, starting in the last wave.

In terms of bottle exchange, we can ask the RD to move the volunteers back closer to edge of road. What wave did you go in? The race organizers rely on feedback from us. I know a couple of decades ago when I organized events, I needed feedback from athletes because from race central/HQ you can't see what is going on at the fringes of the race.

Also on the first out and back of the run, I did not notice a timing wire or anyone taking down race numbers. I shouted out my number in case someone was recording it, but I don't think anyone was. We'll need to make sure that there is some recording going on there if not some slippery person could cut that part of the course.

Congrats on the 2:30 ride. That is awesome. For me it turnd out to be 2:41 ride time off 225 NP. On the steeper climbs, it would go up to 300W and I would dial it back to 275 W or so, which is around 105% FTP for me. My ride was at 3.6W per kilo (NP). I think for the Ironman for me, aside from the first few hills it would not be possible to ride it that "surgy" and certainly at the end of the second loop doing anything at 105-110% FTP in short surges would be a non option. I'd probable end up riding most of the climbs at half IM effort and coast down at zero watts.

I do think that for lighter athletes the general guidelines about consistent power on a bump course is bad. We have an advantage on climbs and disadvantage on descents, so better to use our watts where they make a good impact and then recover at zero watts. Zero watt recovery on a sawtooth course is gold.

In terms of run course, I am not sure if this course is any harder than Tremblant. Tremblant is very deceptive in terms of aggregate hills. The first 5K has a lot of gradual uphill and the bike path/old train track is a continuous uphill one way and downhill the other way. There is around half of the race that is shaded. I think the Muskoka race offers much more variety on the run course than Tremblant (I personally find the bike path mind numbing, but that's a personal thing). As a point of reference, I ran 1:39 in Muskoka and 1:40 in Tremblant and had a much better run in Muskoka. Sanders ran 1:11 in Tremblant and 1:15 in Muskoka and said his legs were off in Muskoka. So I suppose you are probably right that Muskoka is harder. I don't know how much harder though. I THINK it FEELS harder because of the Muskoka half IM bike...however, the Muskoka full IM bike will be easier (Tremblant full IM is double the difficulty of the half, Muskoka Full IM bike may only be 190% the 70.3...this should make a diff on the relative perceptions of the runs ). Plus in Tremblant there are a ton of people drafting in massive packs which makes the run easier. In Muskoka very few will be drafting.

I was in the 3rd AG (M40-44) wave at 7:15. I didn't any drafting that I would complain about either but the guy I was talking to was in my AG, so I guess the officials saw something.

As to the exchange in Dwight... here's what I would like: It's very early in the race (15km?) and I didn't need an exchange. Can we torch the yellow line rule through that section and make the left side a 'bypass' route for those that don't need anything? At the very least, knowing that there is no DQ in the cards for riding left would simplify things a lot. FWIW, while I was trying to stay upright and not crash into the guy in front of me, two riders went past on the other side of yellow. Unless I missed something in the race guide, those should have been instant DQs.

I've raced this course before in 2010/11 and I don't remember that exchange in Dwight. Has it always been there, or was it a dry run for the IM in August where I expect it will be more necessary?

This was the only part of the whole day that I thought could be improved on organizationally, and I'm not really fixated on it. It's a wonderful race and is exactly as advertised - a tough as nails course that will always stand out. I had my best day ever at this distance, with probably my best power-paced bike leg yet.

Cheers!

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Munq

Hey Dev,
congrats on the great result.


I was in the 18-24 wave and came out with some of the purple wave on the bike. I was sticking to my wattage plan (for once) and letting those who wanted to push go ahead.

10-15km in and a group of 8 people seemed to constantly want to stick behind and catch the draft. It was driving me nuts!! 3 of us ended up working together(legally, even confirmed the distance with the official who seemed to stay with us for over 30 minutes). As soon as the official left, we had two others come and draft as if they were in a road bike group ride. It was beyond frustrating!!!

Ended up running with one of the guys who drafted most of the ride and his comment was "why did you guys punch the hills at the end!? It was nice until then!"........what a joke.

Anyways...great weekend, weather, and result:)

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Ryan

I was 2:28 on the bike with 253w, 257NP. I found it mentally tough to keep this up and it seemed it was big ring, small ring, big ring, small ring forever. If you'd asked me what my average speed was (I don't show it on my Garmin) I would have said 35kph, not 38kph.

I did think, "this might be quite pleasant at 225-230w" in the full.

I really like the run, except for the "horse shoe" coming straight out of deerhurst which was bad on the way out and evil on the way back. Doing that twice will be tough.

The water aid stations left quite a bit to be desired and I will 100% carry water with me in the full. Sometimes a cup had 1cm in it or 7cm and never were two cups available to grab at once which I think is normally typical.

I was 4:34 in the half and if x2 + 20 holds up I will gladly take it, but I am more thinking x2 + 40-50 in the full on a hot day.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

I was out in the 40-44 age group and while no where near the speed of you guys started my run just as Lionel was finishing. I saw no real drafting throughout the race however it was very frustrating to deal with the amount of blocking that was going on. On at least 4 occasions I had to brake heavily downhill because of someone riding tentatively downhill too far left without anyone to the right. Options only are cross centre (nope), pass on right (nope), or brake. Obviously the only thing you can do is brake. Realize it is harder to police for officials because it happens and its gone rather than a drafting train that continues for a while. Don't know how to solve that one other than education. Maybe the rolling start for the full will help.

We were pretty close to each other. I passed Lionel going the other way just as I got out the Deerhurst parking lot. Maybe 500m into the run?

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Munq

I was 2:28 as well on 250W, 263NP. Your lower VI was very clear from your riding style after you passed me back around halfway. You would get a 30-40m lead on me on the flats and then I would close to 15m on the hills and ease up so I wasn't forced to surge past you. That must have happened 5x on the highway before you got 100-200m ahead. I need to work on my "following at a legal distance" skills :).

I convinced myself that this yo-yoing was because you must be heavier than me, but your data shows that you were simply a more patient, measured rider. Considering what happened on the run, I think you got it right :).

Great racing with you.

Mike

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Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

Ken, Mike any chance you guys can share links to your files on this thread, so people can see some of this for reference?

My higher VI definitely hurt me out there on the run. Both quads locked up like vice grips. It was a great learning experience to race on that type of saw tooth terrain. You have to be very measured with your riding approach to keep your avg and Normalized power close. I ended up running a 132 but was aiming for a 126 despite starting the run feeling pretty fresh. I agree with the run aid stations - we need more cups of water and Gatorade.

http://tpks.ws/CIot


This was the first time that I had a cyclist near me for pretty much the whole bike ride. Thankfully we had quite different styles so we were never in each other's way.


It was fun riding and running with you Mike. It makes for a more fun less solitary experience.


Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

As another data point, I was 2:31 on 228/240W AP/NP. Saw just one "group" of guys together but I passed them in Dorset on the uphill out of town so it was hard to see if it had been legal or not, and that climb seemed to be breaking them up :). In any case, love that bike course/race! Even in a "group", the benefit would be a lot less than most bike courses out there these days.

A couple of 2:28s on this thread. Those are some smoking fast rides...nice work!

Thanks for sharing your file. I am really impressed with your overall ride and amazed at such a low VI. Is VI a number you watch during your ride; or what numbers do you follow?

I don't look at VI while riding but I do pride myself on keeping it low while racing. To be honest I thought it would be higher after the race and was pleased to see it so low.

I think I'm more patient than most racers, I don't get out of the saddle unless it's just to relieve my butt. I rarely if ever go past my FTP and I hold the same power climbing up and over a climb until I can't pedal past 105rpm on the downhill...then I coast with my hands on the bull horns. I like to race at the low end of suggested power based on FTP. I like 80% rather than 85% because I really feel better while running with the lower power.

I have one screen setup on my Garmin 500 and all it has is lap time, lap power, power 3s, cadence. I press the lap button after each gel I take and I try and take them every 18 minutes with plain water.

Pretty much every racing and nutrition strategy I have came from NRG Performance Training out of Toronto. Before meeting Nigel, Fiona and his team I would regularly blow up. Despite training with them for so long my swim still sucks though...

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

http://tpks.ws/FfNO


Rare opportunity for me as well, especially to observe a 1.02 VI ride, live and in action on that course. It was like seeing a unicorn!

Definitely a lot of fun riding and running with you. You continued to be a source of motivation for me after you dropped me on the run too. I grinded away telling myself "just don't let him get the 5min back". At least until 16km when it became "just keep things vertical" :).

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Are YOU in the Zone?
http://www.discomfortzone.com

My wife and I had a great time coming to Muskoka to give it a try. The bike course is very challenging. We try to train on hills in NE Wisconsin as much as we can.
But they do not keep coming at you like this ride. The run was nice going into town and back. Could have used a little breeze at that point. Otherwise the weather was perfect.
It was my wife's birthday, so after I caught her on the bike, we stayed to together through the race and crossed together.
The people we met over the weekend were great. Caught a little of the tub races Sat. afternoon. Stayed at Hidden Valley, which was a good little wake up walk over race morning.
There were 4 of us from Green Bay competing. The other 2 women will be back for double the fun (sarcasm) in August.
We'll recommend Muskoka 70.3 to others from our club, Green Bay Multisport.

It was a good day, EH!

Toolmaker, I believe I met you and you wife when you first arrived at hidden valley. Glad to hear you had a great time and enjoyed the course. It was a challenging day that ended with a hot run. Definitely a well organized and executed event. Looking forward to the full. Wish your friends all the best.

All you guys talking about the full IM at Muskoka are making me feel left out of the party! Glad you guys have enjoyed the time in Muskoka so far. It really is one of my favourite tri destinations. As I said in my first post, my first racing there was as early as 1990. My son learned to walk at the Hidden Valley resort in 1997 too, so the entire place has some special connection for us.

You guys that actually raced probably didn't even notice, but this was pretty fun seconds before the first wave of amateurs arrived at the swim exit. Looks like the inflating device died or lost power and the whole thing deflated very rapidly. The volunteers handled it like pros, with one of them acting as a support pillar until they could undo the ropes and cram the thing to the side.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Nice ride and thanks for sharing the file. I am surprised that people are saying the run is not too brutal, because 2000ft(for the IM) is a ton. Did you have a file on the run?

Also, at 3.4 w/kg did you need anything more than 39x27, or are the hills not too stiff?

http://tpks.ws/KsiE

Aside from the last hill on Canal where I started to cramp quite badly and didn't have access to enough water to take salt, I thought the run was actually really nice. My legs felt amazing the whole way and if i hadn't cramped might have gone a little faster.

I forgot to mention that I run a compact crankset with an 11-25 rear cassette. I've used this setup for at least 6 years and really don't see the point of anything bigger. This setup has got me around a 2:10 bike split on a flat course and is perfect for Muskoka.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

My 2 cents is that this run course is easier than IMLP, on par with Tremblant, and easier than Kona. Ken, do you agree?

IMLP was my first around 6 years ago. It was a s**t show and I walked at least half the course.

Too be honest I would say based on how I felt, it was really fair. At no point aside from the last 2-3km did I feel like I was being abused and I think you feel like that no matter what in a 4-5 hour race.

If the full is just 2x the Muskoka 70.3 run then pacing through to 25km will be extra critical. Running from Hwy 60 back to Deerhurst then back to Hwy 60 will be a crazy 5km stretch.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Can anyone confirm the on course nutrition? G2 or regular Gatorade

It was G in twist top bottles. But was the gatorade supposed to be sealed? I know the water I got wasn't but my gatorade still had the seal on it. It was quite tricky to rip off the plastic/paper seal then screw back on the cap to get a drink all while in aero...

I lost both my nutrition bottles on the rough section so I used the on course gatorade. I grabbed a bottle at aid station 1 and 2... Both were unsealed. You must have got a rookie volunteer.

Thanks. I had a feeling the 600m on the website was wrong.

That's the climb from the swim finish to T1 lol

All 70.3 and 140.6 Ironman branded races in Canada this year use regular Gatorade. Not G2 not Endurance Formula. Plan your sodium accordingly.

Thanks Paul and M2, someone told me it was endurance but the other thread noted it was Gatorade.

So what kind of time will it take to KQ this year for Men 35-39?

Faster than the last non qualifier.

Rule number 1 about Kona Qualifying is just worry about getting the best out of your own body that is physiologically possible. The worst thing you can do is chase a 'goal time' in the sense that conditions can make things a lot worse. You can only control your own race. Get across the finish line and make sure you don't end up so cooked that you are in hospital and miss the slot allocation the next day. Then go to slot allocation and rolldown and hope that what you did is "good enough".

If you look at the 70.3 in 35-39 top 3 were under 4:46...subtract 7 min for the 4K long course and you are at 4:39. Double it at add 30 minutes and you are sub 9:50...but that assumes the same guys show up, but since there are KQ slots count on double to triple the density of studs, so now you probably need sub 9:50 just to get top 10.

Dev, I noticed you were doubling the time and adding 30 min. I always figured it was double the time and add an hour - the adding an hour seems to work in my case, but then again I suck. Is a + 30 min a better representation at the very pointy end for a
AGers? Does a really tough course such as Muskoka IM change the formula?

Also the IM bike course is only 170km, not the full 180km so the beginning/end out and back part is only done once.

Are you sure about that? I thought that the previous 170 km route was changed to 180 km. The IM Muskoka site shows a 180 km bike course.

,

yes, it is 180K now.

Very glad I found this out now. brb going to do hills.

If it helps, I was the 3rd 35 - 39 male at the 70.3 (4:46) and I will not be at the full.
I also do not feel that I have the ability to compete for a Kona spot yet... I would assume there will be 5+ guys around the caliber of the #1 and #2 35 -39 males from the 70.3.

Good luck!

Wanted to follow up and say that a room opened up at hidden valley (maybe someone decided after the 70.3 that 140.6 wasn't such a great idea) and I am in for the race.

I'm a little behind the eight ball but 48 days of polishing my fitness should get me where I need to be.

Thanks to all of the folks who are sharing their experiences with the course.

I did the inaugural Tahoe in 2013 and it almost killed me :) I figure this can't be any worse than that.

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----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

anyone any idea how this course might compare to CDA? In particular the old bike course, the second incarnation, ie not the one with the dog track, and not the current one. the one around Hayden lake.

The run sounds as if it is comparable to LP, right?

Thought I'd use this thread in hopes to get some advice on gearing for IM Muskoka.

I raced Muskoka 70.3 a couple of weeks ago. The race went well (for me), I finished in 5:06 in the M35-39 group (37 swim, 2:45 bike, 1:38 run). This was 25 minutes faster than in 2013 when I finished in 5:31. Swim and run legs were a bit faster and I biked 20 minutes faster on the same bike setup. So I am happy with how my bike fitness has improved over the last 2 years. That said, I did not race a very smart race on the bike. AP was 193, NP was 221 and VI was a stupid 1.15. I can think of a few reasons for this:
1) Most of my training is done indoors on the trainer because of where I live and how I like to make the most efficient use of time as possible. Plus I guess I'm a bit loony in that I really enjoy the trainer, even 4 to 5 hour rides are no problem for me. In any case, my outdoor riding skills including power management leave a lot to be desired.
2) Related to the above, I realized I am not that confident utilizing my BTA setup on a course that is quite sketchy in spots and constantly rolling, so I came out of aero quite a bit to drink. My power would really dive during these instances and once back in aero I guess mentally I wanted to catch up so I would put in a surge. For the IM I am going to switch back to my Torhans Aero 30 and force myself to slow down and fill up a few times. Seems worth it to slow down for 20 seconds and then be able to spend the next 45 minutes to 1 hour in aero.
3) My gearing was a 50-34 crank with 11-28 in the back and reflecting on the race I did not shift to the small chainring once. Looking at my data I count many spikes well above FTP of 276 watts including a few over 400. Not the smartest way to ride I know.

Even though my VI was terrible my legs felt pretty good during the run. My open 13.1 PR is 1:24 on a flat course and that was less than a year ago. +14 minutes for a HIM on a hilly course doesn't seem that terrible. My question then is would it be wise to stick with the current set up and just try to ride smarter utilizing the small ring to spare the legs? Problem with that is I find the 34x28 to be too low on most climbs thus the 28 seems a bit of a waste and I'd be better off with tighter gearing. Alternatively I could try to use the small ring more often AND switch cassettes. I also have laying around a 12-25 and a 11-23. Do you think 34x25 or even 34x23 for this course would be plenty for climbing purposes? I did find myself using the 11 on a few of the descents. I am going to do my best to keep my power below 300 or so as much as possible.

Hopefully the post is not too incoherent, just trying to get some advice to race to my potential in my first IM. One other important piece of info I guess is I plan to race at 66 kg and hope to average around 2.9 to 3.0 watts per kg.

Do you really think that many really fast guys are going to be at the full? There were only 1200 people signed up as of July 1, and I just signed up today.

I figure that if I execute a smart race, and if the course is essentially the same difficulty as IMMT then I have the potential to be in the 9:3x range. I'm not counting any chickens before they're hatched though...you never know what the day will bring.

Just under 7 weeks of training still to go.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

The problem with the trainer is that it takes practice outside to ride a low VI ride. You have to get on the hills and practice keeping the power low on a climb, cresting the hill with the same power and then using the same power going downhill until you hit "terminal velocity" I.e. a cadence higher than 110rpm for me. During those phases mentioned above I probably change gears 20+ times including small to big.

What is the second lowest gear on an 11-28?

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

The Muskoka course is harder than the Tremblant course and the field should be less deep as well. I would expect that the time necessary to get a Kona slot will be quite a bit longer at Muskoka for most age groups. I am guessing 10-15 minutes longer.

The 2nd lowest is a 24. The cassette has 11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24 and 28.

Yea I can see how it takes practice. I am going to force myself to get outside a few times before the race to try to get more comfortable. Luckily my parents have a cottage an hour north of Huntsville. Will have to pay them a few visits before the race. Beats the flat congested roads of downtown Toronto!

You can get away with a VI of 1.15 with a half IM but when it comes to a full your going to be toast on the run. Your going to see a lot of "fast" bikers walking on the run. Someone coming off the bike in 20th place can easily work there way back up to top 5 with a good run on this course.

Ken,

I think it was 1200 as of June 1 (thats when the athlete list on the website was last updated at least). Im curious to see what the numbers are now. Muskoka email guy told me they would release the current bib list on July 16.... I have not seen anything yet, I'm waiting on that.

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"It's nice to be great, but far greater to be nice"

I just rode what I believe to be the full course on Friday including the out and back section on sea breeze. A couple of notes - not many people have probably ridden sea breeze, but will be happy to know that I found it to be the flattest section of the entire course, great road conditions - one of the nicest parts of the course! I didn't see a marked turnaround so just turned back shortly after 4.5k down the road knowing that without the out and back the course measured 9-10k short.
If anyone is planning to ride between now and race day I would be aware that they have started work on Brunel south of Baysville. It was single lane and over the two loops it probably meant chilling for 5-10 minutes total waiting. Plan on delays. Some sections in the construction area had been torn up and dirt put down but it was packed enough to not be any trouble. Pretty sure I'll be signing up in the next week.

I road the full course yesterday. We were told it was 7 km out and back on Seabreeze, and those last 2.5 km are not flat. Several short but very steep hills. (At least as steep the steepest as the hills on S. Portage and N. Portage.) The road conditions were quite poor on in the troughs between hills. I saw two different people skid considerably before recovering.

Did your GPS measure 180 km? Mine was over because I doubled back couple of times and did not take note of the distance. The official course route does not specify how far down Seabreeze to go. Hopefully your 4.5 km is correct.

My guess is that there may be some fence sitters waiting till the last moment to sign up in the sense that they are still recovering from another IM earlier this summer, or they did the Muskoka 70.3 and are trying to figure out what more they need to do to "get ready" for the full. At least I have spoken to a bunch of people in that mode. Also I wonder how many people trying to KQ at IMLP who don't will say, "I was so close and have the fitness.....may as well give it another shot at Muskoka since it is also driving distance" and they can leverage one training build for two shots at the show (or if you are on on the 12 IM plan, one training block and notch two tick marks towards the road to Kona rather than one).

Dev

I am a fence sitter Dev

What's the weather likely to be if there is an average ? Hate the wet and cold

Cheers
Steve

I had 179.2 on my gps, but I didn't start from deerhurst, I was riding from town so I hit the lap button passing Cookson bay drive which is roughly the same distance from the first turn onto canal road and then lapped again on the way out. I turned around on seabreeze just after the first sharp uphill, there was a fork in the road there and it was very wide, seemed like a natural place for a turnaround and the distance was about right. The math seems to work out... The half is 94k, with 18 of that being the out and back from deerhurst, so the lake of bay's loop is 76 giving 170 km without seabreeze. 5km down seabreeze should be roughly where the t/a is, so I might have cut it a bit short, but I'd like to think 179 is close enough that they don't need to add another 500m of crappy roads?
Do you happen to use bestbikesplit and compare times with what was predicted? I feel bbb times for me were optimistic given the difficulty of the course, but I ended up only about 5min slower after riding at race power which might actually work out to be close with the extra stopping for water, pee breaks, stops signs, construction etc. I was kitted right out with the only difference from race setup being an extra bottle and cage on the downtube.

When I rode the course last week I started out at 745 and it was 13c or 55f - no wind with the sun out and I was fine with just my lg m-2 suit (shoulders covered helps). I have raced the half a few times and the full should have similar weather - usually cool to start, could be as low as 8-10c, if it's sunny it's ok but there is a lot of shade for the first 15k of the bike - fortunately there is also a lot of climbing which helps warm things up. If it's raining it is cold. Typical weather for that time of year (I lived there for almost 20 years) would be 10-14c for race start warming up to 20-24c by mid-afternoon with partly cloudy skies and light winds - which means for race day it will probably be 5c in light drizzle all day long ;)

Many thx

Always struggled with what to wear in the cold and rain

My next attempt will be sleeveless rain jacket and castelli Gabbo on top to make it more aero

I think I may go for it , looks like a great venue

Cheers

Just make sure to pack arm warmers

Sorry for not checking in on this thread. For rain in not too cold conditions, I use arm warmers and wear a plastic bag inside my singlet (like an Ironman transition bag). When it gets into cold rain, I am totally useless. I have worn a full rain coat in some races and paid the aero penalty in favour of not getting a DNF. Yes, it is a parachute, but when you pay as much as we do for these events with entry fee, travel and days off work, better to finish than DNF.

I hear you , DNF placid last year and zofingen the year before

If cold rain is a possibility I have to think about whether to sign up at all though think my rain jacket and Gabbo idea would work

Thx again

Bib numbers are up

At the 70.3, Were the Gatorade bottles being handed out the taller ones (24oz) or small chubby (20oz) ones?

They have helpfully post the IM AWA list and my AG 45-49 is stacked with 5 or 6 who have gone sun 9-30 or 4-20 ish for a half

AWA Gold just means they will have tired legs.

Agreed , discounted those guys though

Taller ones

There are always studs who don't show up, registered, but got a KQ slot elsewhere, get injured, or blow themselves apart on race day. Never let the presence of studs affect your decision making. They could be a total non factor in the end, or they could have an awesome day. You don't know. All you know is your own body and controlling what you can get out of yourself. Having said that, I guess it is time to check on the IM Canada Whistler list to see which studs are in my age group (LOL)!!!

Can anyone tell me if there are stops on the course to get hydration at? I'll be riding the course and wanted to get an idea of the best places to get food and drink. I don't need every stop, but was curious about what mileage they are located at. Hopefully there is one close to mile 40/50. sorry if this has been brought up before.

When will you be riding it? There are plenty of places as soon as you get off of Dwight Beach road and onto Hwy 35.

In terms of the AWA, are you referring to bib #'s? Are the lowest #'s in each AG the top AWA athletes? I'm racing IMMT and was looking at this and comparing on Athlinks - some of the top bib #'s in my AG don't seem to have very fast times.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
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Coaching: https://bybtricoaching.com/ - accepting athletes for 2023

yes, I will be riding the course. Thanks

I'm bib #24 and I suck so there definitely cannot be any correlation between finishing times and low bib #s.

They have "athlete welcome centres" around the bike course now, one in Dwight and Dorset, two in Baysville. Says you can get food/drink and they have washrooms and tools.

Gosh my there are no places to stay. Anyone else staying in Barrie? It's says its about an 1 hr away. I'm traveling alone so I don't mind traveling far.

Bracebridge maybe? Gravenhurst? If nothing there, Orillia is probably a bit better than Barrie.

I'd recommend trying to find a hotel room in Bracebridge. I've stayed there for the half and it was fine. A bunch of chain hotels in the city which typically makes it easy to find a decent room. Expedia shows some rooms available. Gravenhurst is another option.

There's a convenience/grocery store just before the bridge on your left in Dorset, and a gas station about 200m past the turn onto Brunel road in baysville, but it's on 117 so you have to go past the turn and then backtrack. There's also a microbrew and a liquor store right at the Brunel road turn in case your day isn't going well. From Baysville to Dwight there is nothing.

The only problem with staying offsite is you need to be there for Athlete Check-in on Friday, and then Bike check-in on Saturday...plus a mandatory athlete briefing on Friday from 8-9pm? This seems ridiculous...or can you go to the Saturday one at 11am? The athlete guide is really crappy...can anyone confirm which athlete briefing we need to go to?

I am one of those gold guys, and I promise to suck. Cross me off your list.

comfort inn has rooms. does not look too ghetto.

This will be the 7th mandatory meeting I have skipped. 7 out of 7. I tried to go once, in Mexico, and the room held 40 people, I could not get in the hallway. Skip that sucka.

My prayers have been answered ! God bless

Also when you turn off Dwight Beach Rd and onto 35 there is a pizza/gas station/convenience store https://www.google.ca/...A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

My brother can't make it to Muskoka so his hotel room is up for grabs if anyone is interested. It's in Huntsville at the Super 8. The downside: it's not the closest to the race venue by a long shot but hey, it's still in town. The upside: Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights are available for cheap: $300 for all 3 nights.

Room is described as: 2 Queen Beds Room No smoking;2 Queen Bed Non-Smoking Room with free continental breakfast, microwave , refrigerator, iron, iron board, TV; Maximum occupancy: 4 people

Send me a PM if you're interested.

I was camping last week near the gas station. They actually have spare bike tubes supplied there by the local Huntsville Tri shop for purchase (if on the chance you've run out) Sign on the front of the building says Muskoka IM Athlete Welcome Stop. Nice to see the local community supporting not only the race but everyone who trains there throughout the Summer months

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Rob

http://www.robskonadreamin.com/
https://twitter.com/KonaDreamin66

How does the run course compare to IM Mont Tremblant?

The comfort inn is clean, and comfortable. I stayed there while officiating at the 70.3 this year. The only thing I would recommend is NOT drinking the coffee at the limited breakfast they make available on race morning... The cereal and stuff is fine, but the coffee was nasty!

---

Adam

Euro-Sports.ca/The Foodery Team member

In my view they are equivalent run courses in terms of difficulty. Tremblant has sections that appear to be flat, but that bike trail section is really a gradual downhill and a long gradual uphill that saps the legs a bit. Muskoka, you never seem to be on a flat. Always on some grade. My Tremblant 70.3 run was 1:40 and Muskoka was 1:39 (done 2 weeks apart so really the same fitness levels and body composition) . I had a much better race at Muskoka though, so maybe Muskoka is a bit tougher given that I was also slightly faster. Both Muskoka and Tremblant have tough hills in the end when you are falling apart. At least in the Tremblant 140.6, the run hills to the top of the resort go away and you only run half way up on each loop (back to the traditional course there).

Rode the course today and the out and back on seabreeze is terrible, and they've ripped up a lot of the Brunel, please tell me they're going to fix this before Ironman? It was brutle

Hi there EnderWiggan,

Fowler Construction is working hard, and the Brunel section is scheduled to be completed before the race. Don't worry. We have been working with them, and they are well aware of the athletes training in the area and are trying to keep the repair sections as rideable as possible. I just rode Seabreeze yesterday, and am curious what you found terrible. It is as flat as you can get in Muskoka, and was in good shape.

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Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

How many Kms is the Seabreeze section? Do we hit it on each loop?

Maybe I rode Seabreeze too far? I went maybe 7.5km...maybe a little longer. The road had 3 pot holes coming back (hopefully they fill them) and one section was chipseal felt like I was on vibrating chair. Good to know that Brunel will be fixed for the race, any idea when it will be complete? I was planning on taking some friends on the course but don't think they'd like that section very much lol

The course measures around 170 without seabreeze so unless they tack on extra distance the t/a should be around 5k in.

Hmmm it looks like you're only supposed to go 2ish km into Seabreeze? Otherwise you end up over 180km. Here is my logic DeerHurst Resort to South Portage Rd is 9km and you only do this twice (18km total), the "loop" therefore needs to be 81km (as you do this twice, so 162km). In order to get an 81km loop you need to go about 2ish km into Seabreeze so I went WAY to far.

Except that the out and back on seabreeze is on loop #1 only, so double that - I am pretty sure the turn will be between 4 and 5k down seabreeze.

Are you sure it's only on the first lap? That would be great! and makes WAY more sense. The Athlete guide doesn't say anything about it only being on the first lap... Thanks cl60

The original course description mentioned the out and back on the first loop only, I assume they plan to keep it that way as it gets the racers off the small cottage road much earlier in the day so less inconvenience for the cottages on seabreeze.

Another great point, hey Rich can you confirm the out and back is only on the first lap? Much appreciated.

Hey guys,
It is only on the first lap that you do Seabreeze. Do it twice if you want... ;)
I might go down and put a nice little "TA" there as a guide. Not official IM mark, but will give people an idea where to turn around.
R

---

Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

Awesome thanks Rich! Update is much appreciated.

Bumping this, and lowering the cost to $250. Stay in Huntsville for 3 nights for 83.33/night!

I've done both Tremblant and Muskoka - and the Muskoka course is definitely the harder bike course. Tremblant's climbs are steady the the pavement is amazing - so for the most part you can cruise up them in your TT position. For Muskoka though - half the course is similar on nicely paved roads with rolling climbs, but the last leg has short leg-sapping climbs where you're in your smallest gears out of the saddle or jamming in the saddle. The pavement is also not so much in bad shape - but not fast, freshly paved asphalt.

Agreed, having done the full in Tremblant and ridden the full in Muskoka, it's not even a comparison. The crappy roads not only steal your speed but also the constant vibration over the 180km adds up. Also, the variable nature of constantly going up and down hill after hill in Muskoka makes it even more difficult. It will be interesting to see what the Pro's put down in terms of bike split. That said, we all have to ride the same course :)

My guess is no pros make the cutoff...but that's because its an amateur-only race, no professional field ;)

My guess is only 1 or 2 crack 5 hrs.

Eeek, my bad, I had no idea. I was looking forward to seeing some local Pros on the course. Oh well, just us amateur's then...

If I may , what do you weigh ?

Many thx

160-162lbs.

---

"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

A buddy and I rode the course yesterday... Some roads were in bad shape... Once you turn right at the LCBO in Baysville, the road is under some serious construction... They are packing down sandy material and your bike just wants to sink into it... Seeing that this is the beginning of the hardest part of the bike course... It sucked big time. Apart from that I spoke with the construction crew, they said they'll be paved in a week or 2.
The course is definitely harder than Ironman Tremblant. I have done the Muskoka 70.3 twice and I have done the 140.6 Tremblant Once. Muskoka is way harder, and doing it yesterday in the heat was killer!

Hey, was wondering... For the bike course, we do the lollipop 2 times (seabreeze the first loop only)... Do we do the stick 2 times as well (heading back to the start/finish line)? If not, will our bags be at the bottom of the hill at South Portage Road and North Portage Road? Thanks :)

Looks like you do the stick 1x but is it certain we skip Seabreeze on the 2nd loop? The course map shows an aid station at the turnaround of Seabreeze Rd. so it would be strange to skip an aid station 2nd lap.

Also, is the water expected to wetsuit legal?

Skip Seabreeze on second loop, and only do the lolly pop stick once. In terms of an aid station, they will probably move out of seabreeze to the side of the road, this will also ensure no one accidently does Seabreeze twice.

Hey Dev or others,

Quick question, is it easier to get a car at Toronto international or just take a bus?

We will be looking at a quick and dirty trip, if we take the bus then I don't mind paying a bit more for some accom close to race site (if we can find a cancelation)

The issue with the car is that I don't really feel like an 8 hour flight and then having to deal with Toronto rush hour for 4 plus hours, maybe just preferring to sleep on the bus/shuttle.

Looks like if we avoid rush hour we could get from the airport to Huntsville in about 2.5 hours?

Just looking for input,

Thanks,
Maurice

I think your best option is avoid Toronto rush hour. Alternatively, fly to Ottawa and it is 3.5 hours to race site, but I don't think there are direct flights from your town to Ottawa but there likely are to Toronto. If you have to connect, then Ottawa is fine.

Any idea on percentage grade/slope for the bike; on average and/or the steepest sections?

Thanks!

Here is my Garmin Connect File from the Muskoka 70.3:

https://connect.garmin.com/activity/824862864


You can go into the file and pull out the relevant data you want. There are a lot of grades between 6-12% but they are all short. It's just that they are endless.

Paul, if you don't mind me asking how much do you weigh? If the IM corrects the distance and the course truly is 112 then your 225np would have resulted in a 5:10-ish split. Not too shabby for an 8k elevation gain.

You averaged 34.8km/hr on the course? How is that even humanly possible? LOL

I weighed 138 lbs for the 70.3 so rode at 3.6W per kilo NP....certainly could not sustain that for an IM. I would go at around 3W per kilo or so for the full IM it would be much slower. I think this would translate into more like 5:30 to 5:40 for the full IM depending on wind? I don't recall a lot of wind for the 70.3 (then again, i never race with kph, so I never see my speed), and loop 2 always has more wind than loop 1 on every course. For example at Tremblant IM, my time tends to be 2x + 20-25 min of my half IM time based on scaling down my power by around 0.85 for double the duration. Hope this helps

Just wanted to let all of you know that there is now a "T" on Seabreeze where turn around is. Approximate, but pretty darn close. Race Directors will adjust as required on race week. Now people won't overshoot or turn too early. Only on the first lap remember...

R

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Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

Awesome! Thanks Rich

Suckered in by the 100 spot left Facebook post...I guess I'm heading north! Looking forward to it, heard great reviews for the 70.3.

Right on! See you in a month!

---

Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

Ok everyone. I stand here before you apologetic for being incorrect. I was informed back in February, and had my facts incorrect lately, but the Seabreeze is ON BOTH LOOPS. Yes, you heard it here, both loops.
I apologize to all of you specifically for sounding like I knew what the answer was, when in fact I didn't. Now I have proof from an email back in February that states that the out and back is on both loops.

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Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

I just had an email on that one from the IM people confirming its up Sea Breeze for two laps too. I tried my hand at guesstimating where the turn around is and posted an image on the facebook page. I'm told 2.5 k up Sea Breeze with the turn around just past a construction yard entrance. I saw a BOR Aggregate sign on Hwy 35 with an entrance to a huge quarry using Google Earth and the back lane to the same quarry must run off Sea Breeze but I'm not sure if there's a sign. There is a "T" now though so good enough for me!
Garry

---

"Just keep swimming, just keep swimming" Finding Nemo

I'm in too.
I'll be using my only bike ( regular road bike) but I still have to decide whether or not put on the aerobars, apparently there are not too many sections where you can keep the TT position. Am I wrong?
What will be your bike option?

Put the aerobars on. In the 70.3, I would say I was in the aerobars 95% of the time. A lot of the rollers you want to stay aero and carry as much speed as possible into the next hill. The further up you get, the less time you have to spend out of the aero and the less time climbing.

For sure aerobars. I agree with Dev. You can spend a lot of time in aero. In the afternoon, the headwinds along 117 might be there to greet you....think of like the Beast breathing down your neck....haha. But, there have been times when that stretch has a sweet tailwind. The lake effect provides some neat challenges. Sure it isn't predictable like Kona's winds are, but can add some extra challenge.

Here is what the T at the Seabreeze turn around looks like:
https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11800258_838947069527815_9134507568753843585_n.jpg?oh=7278b185b70c1064e5cef0d9d6bc0702&oe=564ABF44

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Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

Hi everyone,

On an unrelated note, I don't know if everyone knows about the ancillary events that have been organized by our local Ironman Muskoka Experience Committee. This committee of dedicated and passionate volunteers are hell bent on making sure that the athletes, spectators, volunteers, and local community residents have an Ironman experience that is truly one that is Muskokan. Even though they are our closest IM neighbour, we are not IMMT. We are Muskoka, and we want you to have a Muskoka experience.

On our website, we have a pages dediated to

• Ironman Muskoka (www.trimuskoka.com/ironman-muskoka) with all kinds of information about the course
• Ironman Muskoka Volunteers (www.tinyurl.com/imm-volunteers) with info about volunteers (we still need about 650 volunteers, so anyone who can lend a hand would be great. Most are just 4 hour shifts)
• Our very own IronWeek events schedule including:


• Tons of activities in and around town for the whole family
• An IronKids race for kids 3-14yo with two distances depending on their age (500m for 3-6yo, 1km for 7-14yo) right downtown
• A Sunrise Swim for Hospice swim where all the proceeds go to Hospice Huntsville, and you get a fully supported early morning swim with breakfast afterwards
• Camp Tawingo Muskoka Day Camp which is a local camp that is willing to provide a Muskoka camp experience for kids during the days of August 27th to August 31st (single day and 5 day rates available)
• A super awesome coffee boat by NyDock serving up Muskoka Roastery Coffee and Totem Juice
• Visit our IronWeek events page for more details and to keep up to date with all the info

Plus, if you haven't signed up for a great social media group where you can learn more about the event, the people coming, and help chime in in a non-ST page:

• Ironman Muskoka Facebook Group
• TriMuskoka Facebook page

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Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

For all of you who are up here training this coming week...there is some emergency surgery required on Brunel Road just south of South Portage Rd. This means that part of Brunel is closed from August 4th to 10th.


Here are two links:


[1] Bike Detour: This road is in great shape and rode it myself last weekend to avoid Brunel construction ... http://www.mapmyfitness.com/routes/view/803152595


[2] Car Detour and notice: click here for the car detour route http://www.lakeofbays.on.ca/content/road-closure-0

---

Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

What's the weather like this in late August? It looks like mid 60s for the high? I'm hoping so since I'm 180lbs! I almost died in my 100 miler this week at 90 and 95% humidity.

Anyone ride the course and compare to best bike split? It says I'll ride a 5:15 at 239w average at 180lbs. Yes I have sucky aerodynamics. But this seems fast for this course.

It will be very comfortable. Not much humidity that time of year usually. Dress for cool morning, warm day (22Cish), and cool evening. Special needs bags packing will have to take this into consideration.

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Jon Morton
President, Triathlon Muskoka (TriMuskoka)
http://www.trimuskoka.com

My Goal is 5:30 or slightly better on 210-220 watts


This year I was 2:42 for the half at 170 lbs and pushed 231 watts riding 2014 speed concept disc rear 50 mm front aero helmet, skin suit.
My full training ride on course (fox road not the new turn around)
were 5:58 at 175 lbs at 190 watts



last year I was 2:56 for the half at 176 lbs and 218 watts riding 2014 speed concept 50/50 wheels aero road helmet, skin suit.
I did two full length training rides for Chattanooga on the Muskoka course
6:05 at 181 watts
5:48 at 203 watts

2 years ago I was 3:00 at 179 lbs and 207 watts for the half on an old speed concept 7 with hed jet 9/9 and aero helmet tir suit.

Hope that helps

Ok seems about right. I could ride a few watts more but not sure about run.

I rode the course a few weeks back, BBS said 5:19 based on the power and weather that day, and I rode 5:24, but with multiple stops for construction, nature breaks, water etc so I think it would have been close. I was in full race kit, only difference was I had an extra cage/bottle on the downtube which I likely won't have on race day. I wish I could ride that course at 239W! That would get me we'll under 5h!

Haven't heard anything about the swim start in a while. Last I heard it was a "rolling" start (though not clear how it would be administered), but neither the Athlete Guide nor the course description pages (nor the trimuskoka site--Rich?) say anything about it!

Can anyone solidly confirm how the swim start will be administered?

Thanks!

Jason Kilborn
Forest Park, IL
(and at 140 lbs, I'll be pushing 165 watts NP max--I don't know how you guys do it at 200+ for over 5 hours!)

I was also wondering...I figure it will be much easier w 1300 or so than something like Louisville w 3000. Will there actually be an attempt to put faster swimmers up front or first come first serve?

I have a disk cover for my Flo 90 making it quite heavy

Would you use it ?

I weigh 156 ish so it's not like I am heavy

Cheers Steve

How much do you weigh? What was your average power and NP when you rode it a few weeks back? The 5:15 that I'm predicting that I ride is at IF=0.7. I think I probably ride more like a IF=0.72 so about 258w NP. However, I have a stages and I think my left side is stronger than right so my BBS predictions are usually off 10-15w when in full race kit. So in reality I could ride a 243-248w NP(with the assumption of 10-15w reduction from left sided power meter). But still wondering if pushing a IF of 0.72 is a bad idea on this course. I'm hoping to run a 3:10-3:15 marathon in hope for a Kona spot.

I ran it with and without my cover on best bike split, and it makes a 15 sec difference, to the good for the cover. For that little I'm going without in favor of lighter weight

The swim will be a rolling start. If you want a swim warm up then you will go to the back of the line.

Greg Nicol
Race Announcer

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World Endurance Canada Inc.
Vineland Station, ON
905.562.6670
info@trisportcanada.com

The best athlete information meeting to go to will definitely be on Friday night in Huntsville. Lisa Bentley and I will be hosting. The Welcome/Athlete Welcome on Friday night will give more information using pictures. There will be a QA after the meeting. Saturday is a day to get your stuff to the site and rest. Sunday will be a great day. Looking forward to seeing athletes meet or exceed their goals!

Greg Nicol
Race Announcer

---

World Endurance Canada Inc.
Vineland Station, ON
905.562.6670
info@trisportcanada.com

I used my cover for my ride of the course despite BBS saying it only saved 14 seconds - there seems to be a consensus that BBS doesn't acurately model the advantage a disk has. I am still debating running mine, but I don't think the weight is a deal-breaker. Model some higher wind speeds on BBS and see if you get more time savings with the cover. Chances are the second loop could be breezy.

I weigh about 155 and rode 190 AP, 202 NP which I think gave me an IF of .72 and I wound up with a TSS of 278...so I pretty much nailed my race power. I really tried to ride as smooth as possible, and I swear I remember my garmin saying 202NP and 197 lap average power for the course when I finished, but when I uploaded to trainingpeaks I got 190/202 for a VI of 1.06.

I also hope to run in the 3:15ish range, but my run volume is a little behind where it should be so we'll see. I think more important than the IF is how you get there- a 0.72 IF ridden with a 1.15 VI is a bad idea on this course, if you can manage a VI of 1.04 you'll probably have no issues. With a 5:15/3:15 combo I just hope you're not M35-39...enough ringers in that AG already!!

Agreed, BestBikeSplit is a real let down...they really need to work on their modelling.

Yup 35-39 age group here. I guess I'm going to have to push the IF to 0.73 now...hahaha.

Why stop there? Go for .90! Kona slots are temporary, bike course records are forever ;)

The two rolling starts I have done (LP and Texas) you just lined up in behind the sign for your target swim speed and it was smooth as silk. So if you are a fast swimmer and come late you just walk past everyone to your allocated seeding area. There is no reason to show up at 4 am to secure a spot in line. Your time starts when you cross the timing wire and enter the water. I can't answer is Muskoka will do it this way, but I believe this is now standard procedure. Louisville is the only anomaly and hopefully WTC gets its act together and gets rid of the silliness of lining up at 4 am at Louisville.

I believe the rolling start at Muskoka will be good for early in the bike where there are some technical up and downs and a few spots with bad pavement at high speed where it will be good for there to be lower rider density. This will be win win. For the strong swim-bikers, you got your perfect race where the rest of the masses can't sit in massive peloton for half the bike and negate your entire advantage. You will have a fair race and your strengths will be rewarded.

is anyone fast on here not 35-39? I'm 35-39 as well, but I'm not 5:15/3:15 on this course...I thought something around 10 might have a chance at top 5, maybe not...

I think around 10 will still get you top 5. I know of two faster athletes Cl60guy and I think redtdi is pretty fast. I'm sure there are one or two others but not all of us are going to have perfect days.

Words to live by. Perform your own good individual time trial from start to finish and we'll all have a good day. At no point will I likely be "in a race"; I'll try and stay steady the whole way and not get too high or too low.

Ken

---

"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Hi Greg

separate question - what type of gatorade is on the course so i can plan my calories

thank you

I am surprised by your statement regarding a swim warm up. IM has been encouraging swim warm ups as part of their SwimSmart initiative, and yet having athletes go to the back of the line, thereby seeding themselves inappropriately will discourage a swim warm up. If the rolling start begins at 6:45, is it not possible to allow athletes to have a swim warm up followed by appropriate seeding provided they are out of the water by a cut-off time (e.g., 6:30)?

I have been reading the Athlete Guide and a couple of points really stood out. The first being that special needs bags will not be returned. Is this correct, or does it mean that the return of special needs bags cannot be guaranteed. I really don't see why there cannot be a drop point for special needs bags. Most items that I place in special needs are low value items such as an extra tube/CO2 cartridge/socks/water bottle which I don't really care whether or not they are returned. I do, however, like to put an extra pair of run shoes in my special needs bag, especially if its raining, and this is something that I will not do if there is no chance of them being returned after the race. The second point, which is WAAAAAAAY more important is that Red Bull does not appear to be on the run course. How can this be possible? I'm still in shock.

I also noticed that it appears that bike shoes can be clipped onto the bike prior to the race so that there is no need to bring them from the change tent. Can you confirm that this is correct.

Hi Unkinny - the Gatorade that will be available on the course is just the normal Gatorade that is available in Canada. On the bike the Gatorade will be orange flavour in sport bottles. On the run course it will be lemon lime in cups at aid stations.

Enjoy your day - you will be an Ironman!

Greg Nicol
Race Announcer

---

World Endurance Canada Inc.
Vineland Station, ON
905.562.6670
info@trisportcanada.com

Hey Scott - I look forward to meeting you in Huntsville.

For the swim start - if you want to warm up you can - you will have to go to the back of the line. If you want to make your way through the line to your goal time staging area you can. We plan to have the swim corral marked with swim times so you should be swimming with similar speed athletes.

As for the special needs bags - the pick up area for the special needs on the run is very near the finish line. You will be able to get that bag back with your number bib/bracelet. As for Red Bull - I suggest that if you have special needs then you place it in the special needs bags:)

Lastly - you are correct - shoes can be clipped on your bike race morning. All athletes are required to pass through the change area inside Deerhurst Resort after the swim and the bike.

The athlete meeting Friday night will go through all of this - hope to see you attend.

Greg Nicol
Race Announcer

---

World Endurance Canada Inc.
Vineland Station, ON
905.562.6670
info@trisportcanada.com

Greg, one thing that was really nice at Wildflower was they had a few run aid station with full bottles of Gatorade just like the bike bottles. You grabbed a bottle at the aid station and spent the next mile or two running with it and you actually got a full bottle into your system and dumped the empty bottle (or half empty) at the . This is a suggestion that I have been meaning to ask the folks at WTC to implement. I think it would be very well received by athletes. We don't need every run aid station to be that way, but a few spaced apart would be very nice and we'd actually top up properly vs the < 1 ounce that actually gets into your body from the cups.

What is the chance of that?

Greg, looking forward to the race. I've done the Muskoka 70.3 a few times and it remains my favorite half iron distance race despite it kicking my a$& every time.

Definitely glad to hear about the bike shoes, swim warm up and run special needs bags. I'll put an energy drink in my run transition bag as well as my run special needs bag so the lack of Red Bull on the run is no biggie. I do my long runs hand carrying a bottle so I'm used to it.

My wife and I did a loop of the bike course yesterday and took the Brunel Road detour. There is a sharp right curve on what I think it is the Bonnie Lake Rd. which is marked with a 20 km maximum speed warning.
OBEY IT!!!
Despite how great you may be taking mountain style hair pin turns it will be the sand dune that is right on the inside of that corner on the pavement that will get you. Darn near took me out. My wife too. Great road though with some epic climbs. Bring extra fluids from Baysville as we filled up three bottles there and were short to make it to the next water source.

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"Just keep swimming, just keep swimming" Finding Nemo

And here we thought you were doing all your long runs on a Elliptical and were planning to do the IM Muskoka run on an elliptical at the Deerhurst resort complete with a Red Bull IV drip and now you public admit to doing real running in training with plans to do that on race day?

Did you not check the elliptical+redbull option box on active.com that IM Cowboy checked off to get the AWA Elliptical option? or do you have to be super duper AWA Iridium level to get that option? I figure with all my racing, I could check that box off, but they did not even offer it to me with my zillion WTC events per year when I signed up for Whistler. Maybe I need to get on the full IM Cowboy program to get the Elliptical with Redbull IV check box.

Oh well!

Swim goggles - does any one know if tinted goggles are required or will plain be fine?

Does anyone know the details on how the rolling start will be separated? Will it be by age group (similar to the 70.3?)

No will not be by age group. You end up seeding yourself based on your estimated time.

Crap, I was thinking it was a mass start. That's a bummer. I have an athlete looking to KQ, and another local female that's on he bubble. I'll make sure both of their spouses know how to access irontracker and give them updates.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Just a follow up. I rode the course yesterday and the construction is still underway for a couple km past Baysville but progress looks good. They are packing sub base and it was no issue to ride those few km through to stay on the route. The bridge they were repairing was getting paved on my second loop. All should be good soon.

Thanks for the update :)

How did you find Seabreeze?

Seabreeze is actually a welcome break. It's flat, I know it's hard to believe in muskoka but it's nice to just cruise for a few minutes without having another hill in your face. Road condition is a secondary /cottage road but good overall. Sheltered from the wind too which was nice. The second loop yesterday produced some pretty large headwinds on 117.