Why are so many people bothered by this?

Out of curiosity, what would you say to someone who has a $3000 bike and doesn't race at all, just likes to ride alot?

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

if you love the sport and have the cash - buying all the cool expensive tri stuff is fun.

Why do 50 year old guys who can barely drive a car get a Porsch? Their obviously not race car drivers! - Because they feel good about it.

If they train a moderate amount, and don't DFN in all their races - what do you care if they get first in their AG on a $300 bike or last on a $3000 sleek, sex machine.

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

I want to be sensitive in how I say this, but -- that's about the dumbest statement I've seen posted here in a while.

Let's see -- 100 people in my AG at a typical local race. That means 97 of them are poseurs if they have nice gear. Huh?

Why does owning a nice bike make someone a poseur? It's just a bike.

And why would it make you mad? What's it to you? What happened in your childhood to make you feel this way?

Flame over...

This actually used to bother me. Then I realized that these people are probably much more successful in life (in terms of financial success) than me, and therefore a $3000 bike is just chump change to them.

Why be jealous. Most people would think it is much more worthwhile to be a successful doctor/lawyer/dentist/whatever, with lots of money and little time to to train than an AG winner who makes a modest living.

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*********************
"When I first had the opportunity to compete in triathlon, it was the chicks and their skimpy race clothing that drew me in. Everyone was so welcoming and the lifestyle so obviously narcissistic. I fed off of that vain energy. To me it is what the sport is all about."

Nothing, because they are not at races thinking they are fast. It doesn't bother me people are posers, (it helps keep Tom D in business) it was just an observation from many years of doing races. I'm sure it happens at crits and road races also.

Using your logic... 50% of everybody at the race is a poser unless they have a crappy bike. If they are slow and not physically gifted then they don't deserve decent equipment. You don't have a clue as the nature of the people at the back of the pack -- but they are there nonetheless.

Don't have a real expensive bike, will never ever place unless no one else is in my age group, but at least I can look good, lol.

At my age, it's about all I have!

Don't worry about things over which you have no control. There are many other mysteries of life to ponder.

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_______________________

Lets say everyone you would like to leave triathlon did, and only the top half of finishers remain. Those that were previously MOP are now BOP - are they all of the sudden now posers? Then they should quit too, leaving you as the one true triathlon world champ. We shall bring you the finest meats and chesses from across the land!

When I stopped lurking and started posting, I promised myself I'd never get into a pissing match with anyone, but you need to look at yourself, man. This sport is growing and thats healthy. If someone is just leaving T2 while your packing up your shit, why not just cheer him on rather than call him a poser. Maybe she has lost 150 lbs in training. Maybe he's overcoming cancer. Or maybe neither of them is a very good athlete. You dont know, so stop judging people.

You only race 5 times a year? What a poser. When are you going to get serious?

Gear doesn't mean anything - attitude does. People with $3000 bikes don't bother me in the least. People who strut around like they're better than everyone else suck, whether their times back them up or not.

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_______________________________________________

I might have over-bought, but what the heck! I can afford it, it get's me on the bike more often than if I had added Aero bars to my 20 year old road bike and I just feel faster (even if I'm not)!

Oh and my Grandmother drives a Porshe! No kidding. She's never been over 60mph but she loves it. Wanna give her a hard time too!

<<Lets say everyone you would like to leave triathlon did, and only the top half of finishers remain. Those that were previously MOP are now BOP - are they all of the sudden now posers? Then they should quit too, leaving you as the one true triathlon world champ. We shall bring you the finest meats and chesses from across the land! >>

Greensneakers, I'm dying over here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too funny.

<<This sport is growing and thats healthy. If someone is just leaving T2 while your packing up your shit, why not just cheer him on rather than call him a poser. Maybe she has lost 150 lbs in training. Maybe he's overcoming cancer. Or maybe neither of them is a very good athlete. You dont know, so stop judging people. >>

I don't care what you ride or what you wear, but if you are crazy enough to be standing at the water's edge with me on some weekend morning while 90% of the world is still snoozing, you are cool in my book.

Brett

I have come to a place where I embrace and accept my mediocrity. But if I'm going to spend hundreds/thousands of hours training to finish an ironman in 1500th place I sure as hell want to be on a decent bike. And because of a peculiar gait I have to buy darn near the most expensive shoes and orthodics on the rack. And my sunglasses are prescription.

YES! That's what it's all about.

We are all of the tribe.

I resemble that remark...

I think it's because of slick advertising. Suckers like me think we can buy speed. I just bought some really slick, high-performance, carbon-fiber socks. I expect to PR with them at my next race.

They're ELECTRIC BLUE!!!

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Actually 97 of them are not posers, the last race I did went 10 deep because of 60 people in the age group. You could place 50th in your age group but still place 50-60th overall in a large race. I'm in the 35-39 group and I've placed 4th overall and 3rd in my age group, so each race is different.

I believe I have seen many more "posers" as you define them at cycling tours and Century rides. I don't honestly believe you can really fake it in tri at anything Olympic distance or longer.

Actually I do cheer on the other people, I say "at least their out doing it" most Americans are home smoking watching NASCAR.

With all seriousness, I am a 12hr IMer. I am very sensitive to the expeianced. Could you please tell me the amout that is appropriate for my purchase of a tri bike? Also,should I just buy a Tres Desoto and not a T1. Or should I buy something less expesive,I am an hr IM swimmer. How about shoes. Should I stay under $60.00.......I dare you to give me an honest answer. You posted your opinion now give the advice to bak it up

Oh my god... I am a poser. I am a bop'r and am waiting on a 5k bike, custom built just for me, to be delivered the middle of July. I never meant to hurt or upset anyone, especially a tri'd and true warrior like yourself. I drive a '97 Ford Exploder with 100k on it, does that help you?

Sounds like maybe you have a case of penis, err, bicycle envy?

If anything, you should thank these people for supporting the high end bike industry. If these bikes were only purchased by the fastest athletes, none of the companies would likely build these bikes at all.

I totally agree, I think to ride a $5000 bike isn't a right but a privilege. I am also sick of seeing my favorite IM races fill up, there should be some sort of qualifying rule to weed out the posers. It bad enough the IM leaves the cut off time at 17 hours...if its going to take you that long maybe you shouldn't bother...they should go the way of IM Australia where if you can't make it 15 your done. Seeing these fat dudes with their USPS jerseys with a Zipp disc on the back while posting a 7 hour bike split is sad...why bother. Some fat ass attorney who thinks "doing an IM" to check off his list driving there in his Lincoln Navigator irks me as well. Its like those people taking 40 minutes to finish a 5K...I mean really why bother...then they wear their event T-shirt like they actually did something. For all the effort these people put into trying to look the part maybe they could get off there ass and actually bother training for it. Some animals eat their weakest young for a reason...maybe humans could learn something from them. End of sarcasm.

Why so many A-holes in triathlon?

Uhh, no envy here, I ride a $3000 Felt thanks to Tom D, he needed to make his house payment so I bought the bike.

"Why so many A-holes in triathlon?"
- - Because we're obsessive/compulsive; we cain't he'p it...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

Tri36 Wow. Why would you even have age groups or mens/womens divisions? Flat out, the three best from a total field of, let's say ten. Of course, your entry fees might be on the high side, and don't expect me to let anybody close the roads in my town for ten spoiled brats. Maybe you should be in the Olympics, or maybe you aren't THAT good.

I never said I was that good, plus they draft in the olympics.

NICE! Especially Bart. I just hate it when people criticize without knowing anything about the other person. I guess some people need that to make them feel better about themselves. Nuff said.

Right. Who the hell cares what I do with my money?

"this is my 20th year"

One would think that after twenty years this shouldn't bother you. Who cares how people spend their money - it's their money ain't it. Besides, it's good for the economy.

Are you saying that if you're not a top AG'er then you're unworthy of riding a nice bike.

Now that would be a good rule - all participants are required to ride old 12 sp clunkers until they start to place high in AG and then they'll be allowed to ride a nice bike.

We need to close down this board, no more observations (might hurt peoples feelings) I have an idea, lets do like NASCAR, make everybody ride the exact same bike.. Before the race bikes are issued like timing chips then you give the bike back after the race.

As long as they (said "Posers") are not McDonald's drive-thru clerks maxing out their Discover Cards for all that stuff, I say GOOD FOR THEM! If you love the sport & lifestyle, go ahead and spend a lot, if it's within your budget.... my first Tri, I barely placed in the top 1/2 of my age group, but I had a nice carbon fiber bike... (but wore a $10 swimsuit all 3 legs)... if all these toys encourage people to stick to the sport, what harm?

My second race a while back, I did a 2:30 ID Tri, with same carbon fiber bike and a wetsuit this time (USED!), placing much closer to the top (4th out of 20 in my age group)... so have I earned the right to ride my carbon fiber bike yet? Or should I wait till I get 7.432 minutes faster or move up one age group spot?

Actually, all the "Posers" SHOULD be appreciated. If they were not posing behind the Top 3, then there would be no race, and you would feel less accomplishment when you lap them. Reminds me of my glory days of HS track, when I actually lapped one poor guy in the 1600 meter run (on a 4 lap track).. and he had the NERVE to wear spikes!

Lighten up. We do this for fun. If people have the $$, enjoy spending it. It's the engine that counts, anyway. A back-of-pack poser might save 2 minutes on the swim, 3 on the bike, and 1 on the run with the fanciest of high-tech equipment (vs. a swimsuit, huffy bike, and basic Kmart trainers). But maybe it makes them feel more confident/better competing with The Gear on, so go for it.

I still like my carbon fiber bike (road frame geometry). And if I keep improving at this rate, my poser ass is gonna pass YOU my next race! :-)

My original quote was "I'm not saying you have to place so high to buy expensive stuff but it's like playing golf a few times a year and buying a $2000 set of clubs..."

I never said it bothered me, just making an observation. I love how everybody jumps to conclusions and changes the original message

"it's like playing golf a few times a year and buying a $2000 set of clubs..."

And......? I've got a friend just like that. His golf sucks but he's got nice clubs. Could also be because he's in sales and golfs with a lot of clients and wants to present an image of financial success.

But whatever the reason, who cares. Like I said, it's their money.

I agree, money makes the economy work. I wonder how many bike reps are at triathlons?? Except Tom D

Everyone's allowed their opinions and "observations", but when it comes across as an attack this is the reaction you'll get. Didn't hurt my feelings, I just don't understand the mindset.

"Seeing these fat dudes with their USPS jerseys with a Zipp disc on the back while posting a 7 hour bike split is sad..."

I disagree with you.. I have a lot of respect for those people, at least they are out there trying.. Maybe one day that 7 hrs bike will become 6hrs.. Geez I did 6:51 the first time, should I bother going back this year???? I had tears in my eyes being a "catcher" at the finish line in Hawaii last year.. What it meant for those people that finished in 16-17hrs, was incredible.. between the guy that was a coach potato, the girl that had cancer, the guy with one leg, I had a lot of admiration for their courage and perseverence and took a life lesson out of it.. I can't even begin to tell you how much of an inspiration it was to talk to them... If you want to qualify for a race, that is what Kona is for...

Who made you the arbiter of what placing "so high" means? Your so-called "observations" are put-downs that probably hurt the feelings of a lot of slower slowtwitchers (I would have felt bad reading your posts around the time of my 1st tri last year).


By the way, since you are so big on standards and placings, you cannot escape from this thread without posting your EXACT PRs for sprint, OD, 1/2 IM, and IM. I'm just curious to know how fast you really are. Because I'm sure there are some former "posers" following this thread that are now faster than you (or at least comparable...)...

Now, your idea on everyone competing on the same bike, that's the kind of comment/idea that belongs on this Board in my opinion (as opposed to bashing folks slower than you). :-) For Olympic events, TDF, etc., I think this is an idea that should be considered. As I mentioned on an earlier post, it's ridiculous in track cycling/bobsled/Tri/whatever that how much money a country/sponsoring corporation spends on R&D counts almost as much as the athlete (when the difference between 1st and 14th may be less than a few seconds). And poorer nations certainly can't compete. Why not require everyone to use the same bike, or bikes built to the same standard specs? Worth considering... we "posers" could still download our bulging wallets for tri suits, carbon fiber spikes, etc.

Many people do triathlons without any desire to finish in their top AG, or desire to finish in the top half overall and just merely enjoy the excitement of the equipment and healthy exercise it brings.

I ride a piece of shit Raleigh 700, wear a pair of worn out Cannondale shorts, but I do have a pair of Oakley half jackets. I don't feel too guilty about the 119 dollar sunglasses, but I do also fish in them, and play tennis and golf.

     Actually I totally agree with you, my post was intended to be sarcasm. Finishing in 8 or 17 hours for an IM or for that matter taking 5 hours to finish a sprint on a beater or a $5000 ride isn't my concern, I think that its important that someone is out there in the first place.

Anyone and I mean anyone that completes an IM, be in in 8 hours or 17,has done more than 99.9999% of the population and that is HUGE, BIG, MONUMENTAL! Get off your high horse and join the rest of us mortals!

It was summed up previously. There are many Arseholes in this sport.

and i believe that you'll find a lot more assholes at the front of the pack who aren't quite winning bitching about guys at the back of the pack on nicer bikes than them...



as noted in many other threads, the ones who actually win at the humble ones, the ones who just miss winning are usually the envious assholes.



oh well.

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

The original question was something to the effect of: "Why do people try to replace training with a bunch of high end gear?" On a little more constructive note, I'd like to hear what people think causes this tendency. Is it a consumer culture that tells us we can buy happiness? Is it lazyness?

Also, what causes a certain group of triathletes (myself included) to at least chuckle at someone who is way overgeared? My experience with this group is they tend to be pretty fast, and have often payed their dues in the sport. Few ran an Ironman their first year. Most have defined a "right" way to be a triathlete and try to live it out. Most are not poor. Why?

Discuss.

You ask the question - Why is it people insist on buying expensive stuff when they can't finish in the top 50% of their age group? (paraphrased) They do because they can. Because this is a free country. Because there are no rules in triathlon that forbid it.



Here is my question - Why did you ask such a rhetorical question? You later stated that it was merely an observation, but the negative tone was there and thus the negative replies to your post. It's the same as if I asked "Why is it that black people wear expensive jewlery and listen to annoying rap music?" How do you think people would react to that question? But then I could say that it is merely an observation and the negative people were getting all bent out of shape for nothing.



Ed

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LLLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRROOOYYY JEEENNNNNKKKIIINNNNNS!!!

Still, t36 is a good poster, and a funny one. This thread is going to really attract some wrath. I winced when I saw it and foresaw he would get "the run" on it.

However, his underlying criticism about "over spending" is true, a bit, it is. This thread is going to be a electronic pinyatta for the many thousands who probably spend too much money to satisfy "cravings" for some bike, running, or swimming equipment, not suitable or commissurate to their talents. They feel attacked by this. I am guilty of this. "I just need to get that." A pair of Kayano's. Or "that bike," or "new wheels." Or that pair of new $35 goggles.

However, having said that, I see no ability to progress in this sport without also moving forward gradually into better, more expensive equipment. The progressive advances in performance which someone makes from better training sessions can also be said to occur in that athletes understanding of what is or is not better equipment, which comes from research, and general discussion in the community: not vaingloriousness.

I think if T36 had to say it again, maybe, we should say that the progression into expensive equipment should match the results, progressively, not all at once.

Its not vaingloriousness, in as much as its practically better in the long run to go with better quality. It is not vanity for me to want Kayano's, over cheaper $35 Nike running shoes, nor want poor, cheap goggles over Barracuda goggles, for example. However, if I were just to begin swimming, maybe going out and buying a $55 pair of Barracuda's isn't a good idea, or to begin running, with a pair of $140 shoes.

The progression into better more expensive equipment should be gradual, commissurate with performance. I think this is what he is trying to say.

About bike spending. I posted a few weeks back about some of my friends who I do triathlons with, who place way up in their AG, who scoffed at my desire to buy a "fast aero bike." They jokingly said they wouldn't haul it up there until I did better than what I did. I do this with much less seriousness than them.

However, interestingly on the way back from the race, they made fun of my Raleigh "beater", in a nice way. And one of them has commenced to find me a better bike, its his mission, and he will call me at work, with some 1500-2000 bike, he found, saying, "the difference between what you ride, and this is NIGHT AND DAY."

So, you know, that's a mixed signal. I'm not worthy of a better bike, but the one I have sucks. Sift through that one.

What bugs me is this guy is surely not alone with this off the wall attitude and nobody has the guts to ask this question at a race. They'd likely get their face smacked after trying to put down the guy with the nice gear.

I'd like to know what level is commensurate with what bike?

When I have an IM bike split of X, do I get to buy my P3, or do I have to settle for the Dual or the P2K? Who gives a rat's ass whether the 300 lb guy who finishes last in the local sprint is riding a Blade with Zip 909's?

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Steve Perkins

Well said boothrand. I agree, I think Tri36 is just looking to get a rise out of posers like me. I've found the reactions a lot of fun to read.

I am probably the ultimate poser. I own two tri bikes that combined could easily pay for a decent late model car. I rarely see a podium unless it's a super small local race, and even then rarely. However, I can afford nice bikes and they make me very happy.

My last race I finished 61 of 225 in the 35-39 at Alcatraz and 232 of 1258 overall. Does that mean I have to sell my bikes and get a Huffy????? If I do get the Huffy, better not let me pass you or you'll hear about it for sure!



All in good fun,

Dennis

P.S. I also got a nice set of golf clubs that collect dust ever since I bought a bike.

Better said, than I. I was not putting people down, just asking about performace vs price of equipment.

I was a lurker till now, but this has really got me going now...

I believe great bikes aren't a right, but rather a privilege for the special few who've put in the training to deserve 'em. If someone gave me Lance's bike to ride for the next tri, I wouldn't dare ride it...coz I ain't good enough for it.

Aah, an interesting thought provoking question. I'll have a go.

I started doing tri’s in 1984. The first year was on a bike reconstructed from parts belonging to bikes from my three brothers, an amalgamated 40 lb Ross ten speed that still had about three pounds of sand in it from a year and a half at Newport Beach peninsula. But, I was hooked.

Next year, it was a Bianchi Nuova Racer. I still have that bike and I still love it too much to give it up. After four years I got talked into buying a new bike, a Cilo road frame with Campy (by a friend who was buying either a new Kestrel or a Trek every year). I road that bike off and on for almost 16 years and it never fitted me properly. I was not seriously doing triathlons in the 90’s due to graduate school work, so I just fiddled with the bike to make it work.

Last year, I returned to the sport, 30 pounds over race weight, 49 years old, and with the notion it was time to tackle a full IM. I did five races last year on the Cilo. I lost 20 pounds by October 2003 (10 months). I did a HIM in June in just under 6 hours, and a marathon in October in a poor 4:16. I also got signed into the 2004 IMC via the lottery.

I lost most of the last ten pounds this winter, and I decided it was also time to get a new bike, more specifically a tri-bike. My thoughts included: This will be as fast as I will ever be again in my life. If I don’t get a really nice tri-bike now, when would I? Of course, it was also time to get a bike that actually fitted me. My purchasing research led me to the Cervelo P2k. My wife (of all of two years) talked me into the P3. I ordered it in February. I got it in March. I have transferred the Shimano SPD pedals from my old bike (which I still train on), I have gotten a Zipp 404 with a Conti tubie on the front, and I have a Renn 650c tubie disc on order (for some 12 weeks now). The full price of the bike will easily exceed $4500.

Am I a poser? I don’t think so. I have trained my butt off this winter, not in some small part because the thought of being called a poser did cross my mind. I am also extremely competitive. I love to compete, even if I don’t have a snowball’s chance in Hell to win.

Years ago, I occasionally placed in smaller races. Last year, I was doing good to finish in the top half of my age group. This year, I have placed once, winning my age group and finishing 28th out of 650 in a local sprint race, and 6th in my age group at the Tupper Lake HIM, but 18 minutes faster than my PB from 1986. Yet, even if I was not doing as well position-wise, I still love the bike. It is extremely comfortable as compared to the Cilo, it is far more aero than any position I could obtain on the Cilo. It is also red ;-), but I digress. The new bike really does make me happy.

One last point, at Tupper Lake, I noticed well after I passed the turn around, two guys bringing up the rear, but still well separated from each other, still on the outward bound portion of the bike. Both of these guys had discs. My thoughts: 1) Why are they so far behind everyone with disc wheels? 2) I wonder if they are really slow swimmers and they are playing catchup on the bike and run? 3) I wonder if they flatted earlier? 4) I’m glad I have a decent swim. 5) I’m glad I haven’t flatted. 6) Get your focus back on your race.

I didn’t see any posers.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

On the other hand, put Lance on a Wal-Mart bike and I bet he posts one of the fastest times of the bike leg.

Man, I don't know, but I see who he is talking about. You can see the "Post Tri Craze Fallout" debris on Ebay every day. The Tri craze maybe growing but there is another end of the meat grinder.

"I've quit doing triathlons, concentrating on mountain biking, here's my Cervelo Dual....for $1400 bucks, buy it now. Need cash."

That's them. The impulse people. This hits close to home. My brother in law is a physician down here. Makes gobs of money. Well, three to four years ago, he wanted to start doing triathlons. I have no idea why. He might have read a magazine or something. Who knows. He proceeds to go out and buy a brand new Litespeed Ultimate, retail, and they put aero bars on it. Its not really a tri bike. Not sure what he was thinking there but they fitted him out. He bought a wet suit, and all kinds of equipment.

It ended up being a $4,000 bike. His wife, my wife's sister, her jaws drop, and she proceeds then, almost to put him in a mental institution.

I think, right after that, that year, a few years ago, he did 2 sprints.

And, since then, that was it. It just sits there in his garage. Every time I go over there, I pump up the tires and ride the bike.

What the hell was that all about?

Yes you were putting people down.



I wasn't going to say this, but due to your constant defensive posts, I hereby NOMINATE T36 AS SLOWTWITCH's ASSHOLE OF THE WEEK.



:-), hey, you got a right to express your thoughts... but still waiting for you to post your PRs, btw! I'm curious to learn how much faster I need to get before getting a Blade, zero pedals, or that cool neverreach hydration system.



Could some of this anger be due to jealously... perhaps you want that new Blade INSANELY but it's out of the price range, meanwhile Mr. Spam Back o' Packer, Esq. is riding your dream bike to a 4 hour OD finish? Dude, just stop criticizing (or "observing" and then communicating your "observations" to the world when you know plenty of so-called "posers" read this board) and get the most of your own equipment!!!! You will look much more Cool beating the posers on a 10 yr old Raleigh anyway.



It's a free board, don't take my nomination as a put-down. Just an observation . . . :-)

If people didn't buy these bikes, there would be no sponsorship, and the sport would suffer. If only elites bought these bikes, there wouldn't be enough profit to put these bikes into production at all. The more money people spend on bike equipment, the better it is for the industry and the more money is available for technical innovation.

If you want to kill R&D, force everyone to ride they same crappy bike. ANY money spent on bike equipment is good for the sport. I hate when people denigrate those who either wear pro equipment or clothing. Its that type of attitude that will keep the sport small. We should be thankful that there are those who buy cycling products as they keep the sport alive.

As I stated before I have a decent bike( thats why Tom D drives a Lexus), and what was my exact quote that put people down?? My post are not defensive, just stating exactly what I said since by the 50th reply my original post has been changed and paraphrased many times from what the original said.

"However, his underlying criticism about "over spending" is true, a bit, it is. This thread is going to be a electronic pinyatta for the many thousands who probably spend too much money to satisfy "cravings" for some bike, running, or swimming equipment, not suitable or commissurate to their talents. They feel attacked by this. I am guilty of this. "I just need to get that." A pair of Kayano's. Or "that bike," or "new wheels." Or that pair of new $35 goggles.

However, having said that, I see no ability to progress in this sport without also moving forward gradually into better, more expensive equipment. The progressive advances in performance which someone makes from better training sessions can also be said to occur in that athletes understanding of what is or is not better equipment, which comes from research, and general discussion in the community: not vaingloriousness."

I thought the handwriting was on the wall in the late 80's, and was part of the reason I drifted away from the sport for a while. The specific message was defined by the wetsuit trend. Back then, only about 5 or 6 showed up in a race. Water temp guidelines were still being debated and defined. But it was clear that eventually, a majority of participants would be plunking down a couple hundred dollars for a suit, and that anyone with a an idea of being competitive would have to as well. Tri specific bike prices were already routinely exceeding $1500-2000. It was still close enogh to my pure running days to remember that $20 for a pair of Addidas Bostons, and a pair of running shorts and I was good to go. However, time proved that I just couldn't stay away.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

I've seen WAY more posers down the beach in their Speedos and they probably can't even swim! ;-)

I really do hope that what you are referring to is the attitude, not the amount of money spent or finishing position. This sport is obsessive, you train to race, then you have to race again, then it has to be more challenging. Does anyone deserve to be there any more or less than the person next to them. Does a friend of mine that races on a $3500 bike deserve to ride it because he has only one leg, maybe whatever poser was in him went with the leg. If you have to sacrifice something else for that bike then so be it, everyone that has worked hard and put in their dues one way or another deserves what they have or want. Besides where is it said that you have to like everybody, I am really not a fan of people in general, but I realize we have to exist together, so make something of it.

What kind of bike do you have on order?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Hey some bikes run $10k plus. So is $3500 cheap by comparison? I did one Oly (LA) 3:13 (19 min worth of trans & 1:30 on the bike). Used my old beater Specialized with toeclips (read 'heavy' ~30#). I was hooked. All of my swimming, running had a channel. Kids were out of the house, I had time to train. Saw a SR-TT new (2years on the LBS floor) priced, with Ultegra and 540's, for less than the frame. I definitely overspent. Next Oly, more training 2:46 (one mo later). Last month 2:31 with a new wet suit and a lot more training. I'm definitely a 'wannabe 53 yr old triathlete'. some of us are posers, but some of those dudes got hooked like I did, or have a lot of bucks or both.

PS. My sunglassses are $5 clip ons.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

If elected president I promise a $3000 bike grant to every triathlete and cyclist in America. It may only be spent on one bike and the full amount must be used. All change goes to customerjon.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Great story, I like it. I especially like the following line:

"My purchasing research led me to the Cervelo P2k. My wife (of all of two years) talked me into the P3."

You is one lucky man!

Here is the way I look at it. New gear is partly (note emphasis on "partly") what keeps me interested in the sport and keeping myself in shape. When I have a bike I like (or other pieces of gear), I stay motivated, and I keep myself in much better shape than the vast majority of people my age who have otherwise sedentary jobs. My pinarello may deserve a better rider than myself. But it keeps me living well (and hopefully long) and that's all that really matters to me.

The other thing to add here is that luxury products are usually purchased for more than one reason. People buy bmws because they are fast, and/or because they ride incredibly well and have lots of comfort. The same is true with bikes. I may never push my bike to the max. But my steel/carbon mix is a damn smooth ride, and it makes riding a really pleasurable experience. And what's so wrong with that?

the placebo effect is alive and well here. I just KNOW I could be be faster with 909's, Easton Tri bars, DA or Record parts. I would have to work so hard, just so that I didn't humiliate myself, I would really improve.

Ooo.Ooo...A whipperman Ti chain. I could........

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

I haven't read the entire thread, so someone else may have said this already.

You're looking at triathlon and seeing a microcosm of the American culture. We buy more than we need/can handle in every aspect of our lives. From 4,000 square foot homes, to $100,000 SUV's, to motorcycles that can go 180 MPH off the showroom floor, we spend endlessly on things that are as much a fashion statement as they are functional.

In many aspects of life, there is a very low need/want threshold, and we almost always justify buying at least somewhat beyond our needs.(Yes, I want the ice maker with the cube or crush feature, thank you!)

So what you see in triathlon is simply successful marketing of products to people who can afford them.

--

I do think that your feelings are normal in our culture, however. Typically, when we see people who are using/operating something we feel is beyond their abilities or level of deserving(in our instant mental judgment) we think, "Poseur", or "Loser" or whatever. That's a big part of what drives everybody to want to buy the bigger, better model of everything.

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Simple answer.

For buying expensive gear I need a lot of money. For training a lot I need a lot of time. My personal problem is I don't have as much time at hand as I would like to have to train as much as I'd like to ... so I ride a nice expensive bike, wear expensive oakleys and sadly am rather slow.

regards,

Frank

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

[reply]If elected president I promise a $3000 bike grant to every triathlete and cyclist in America. It may only be spent on one bike and the full amount must be used. All change goes to customerjon.[/reply]


rofl tibbs. Here in Australia they have just approved a $3000 payment non means tested for every child born after July 1. My wife is 36 weeks pregnant and made the cut. Perhaps I should get a new pushie or maybe that penis extension that I want.



This thread reminds me of a post by some dickh3ad on a board where he listed a dozen (or so ) names of guys who one of his coached athletes ran down in an IM and asked them to explain themselves. Too many small people make attepts at inflating their own egos at the expense of others and often make themselves the fool in the long run. I bet the thread starter thought he/she was going to get support on this topic but it has turned out the otherway.

There's an old saying that goes something like this: Time, skill, or money. If you have enough of two of these things, you can offset a lack of the third.

This is certainly not an absolute, but it seems to apply to many practical applications in the workplace and in life.

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I have an expensive bike (Softride) and usually place in the middle of my age group. In smaller competitions I might get lucky and win an award. But, I would just say to 'what's his face'... come train with me in the freezing cold winters of the north east. Or, run in the pouring down rain. Or, drag yourself through 20 hour training weeks. Then, tell me about my bike and how expensive it is. While I'm training for the Ironman my family gives me total support... Tell them about my bike!!!

There's another explanation that hasn't been covered either.

Lets say I've done a couple tris on a old shitty bike, but I really enjoyed them. Now I'm in the market for a new bike...what do I buy? (assuming I have loads of $)

I think I would always buy higher than my ability level dictates. The simple reason is that I plan on using this bike for the next 5 years or more. Therefore I buy according to what I perceive my ability will be in the future. I damned well plan on training and improving -- who doesn't. And voila, now I deserve to own an expensive bike because I'll grow into it. Maybe I'll never get as fast as I expected to, but I'm not going to buy a bike every year that's incrementally more expensive than the last because my times keep dropping. Does that make me a poser, or just someone with high goals and $.

If us posers were not there who would you make fun of? We all can't be studs.

Couple of things. One, the defensiveness of some of these replies (the ‘what’s it to you?’ attitude) is perhaps telling. It does not get us very far in terms of discussion as it could apply to at least half the posts on this forum.

Two, I, too, have been in the sport for several years, I race an ‘entry-level’ bike with training wheels, and receive a boost of motivation as I place (in my AG) in the bike routinely and beat many of the guys with the expensive machines. For me at least this motivation is not a matter of jealousy (I could afford the expensive bike if I chose to put my money there rather than elsewhere) but taste, style, and priorities.

These people might be making a lot more money than you, and to them spending $3000.00 on a bike isn't really that big of a deal.

Because they want to.

There are many reasons that people get into triathlon. The fact that they are a gifted athlete is rarely the reason they got into triathlon. There are gifted athletes that get into triathlon for other reasons but they are not near a majority. The end result is that triathlon has evolved into a “competitive” sport in which the majority of participants are “non-competitive” with respect to winning awards. After the race is over and the awards are being passed out, it really doesn’t matter who these people are, what they do outside of triathlon, how they train, how much they train, and what equipment they buy. Those things do really matter when looking at the health of triathlon. For better or worse, the popularity that triathlon experiences today exists due to the level of participation by those that are never going to win an award.

I think a better question is why would these people continue to participate year after year, but you want to know why they would spend large sums money on equipment. I am sure that the reasons that people buy the equipment that they do is as varied as the reasons they got into the sport. “Because some pro uses this” or “because I can” or “because it looks good” may perfectly valid for some and totally ridiculous to others. For each person, their reasons are valid to them.

The equipment is the most visible part of triathlon. It is what everybody notices from 20+ year veterans to first timers. What goes into the preparation for the race and why someone shows up is invisible. All that is visible is the equipment and the finishing time.

I have found out two things about categorizing people based on what is visible. 1) It very easy to do and hard to avoid. 2) If you do it, you are doing a great disservice to both yourself and the person you categorize. Based on your definition of a Poser, my finish times, and the equipment I own, you would categorize me as a Poser. If you do categorize me as such, you make me one dimensional and in this case, negative. Triathlon to me is a sport that is so multi-dimensional and positive. The diversity is what keeps triathlon fresh and new. I think you are missing out if all you think is important is the finishing time.

Why do so many of us spend over our abilities? You will have to get to know us to find out.

"One, the defensiveness of some of these replies (the ‘what’s it to you?’ attitude) is perhaps telling. It does not get us very far in terms of discussion as it could apply to at least half the posts on this forum. "

What is wrong with the fact something is none of you buisness? Sure it is very simple and brings a discussion to an end but that does not make it incorrect. If I buy a bike that is more expensive then yours and you beat me it doesn't matter. Is it a penis extension? Was it a gift? Is the person doing heavy and training and training the race so placing is not important? There is no reason for you knowing why someone else owns an expensive bike that is any of your buisness. What is telling not someone telling you to worry about yourself what is telling is why you care what someone else does.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

“Great story, I like it. I especially like the following line:

"My purchasing research led me to the Cervelo P2k. My wife (of all of two years) talked me into the P3."

You is one lucky man!

Swim On, Donncha”



Boy, Donncha, you don’t even know the half of it. Sorry, Tom, close your eyes for the next part. She’s a leggy blonde that does killer Ashtanga yoga, which really shows, and she is extremely smart. I have no clue what she sees in me, but she keeps reminding me I am stuck with her. Did I mention she is 13 years my junior?



Friday morning quarterbacking – some other points in the light of day.

Yes, I have a very nice race bike. On the other hand, I still drive my 1981 BMW 320i. I really like that car. It has held up well, but I will probably have to replace it in a few years. So, yes, my race bike is probably worth three times the car that I use to drive to a lot of my races. I spend money on what is important to me. Not spending mega bucks for a new car every few years gives me that option. (But, to be totally honest, I also don’t buy a car more than once every ten years ‘cause I am just not fond of dealing with car sales people.)

Last year, I bought a T1 DeSoto wet suit. Again, yes, it was expensive, but, two points to mention. First, it was a goal and a reward, loose a certain amount of weight, get a wetsuit. Second, I was/am the antithesis of the ideal triathlete. When I bought the suit, I was 5’4” and 158 lbs. I don’t think there is a single piece wetsuit in the world that would adequately fit those dimensions. The T1 gave me options that worked. Amazingly, at 142 lbs, it still fits well. Again, my wife also pushed me to get a wetsuit. Of course, this was after she saw me do an early season event in May last year with 59 degree water, sans suit. I do have to say, though, that with 25-30% body fat, it really wasn’t that bad. But, I did earn a few points with my wife. ;-). Bottom line – you have no idea why some people have the equipment they have just by looking at them.

Tatakh has a good point about training. My contribution is the memory of a run this past January. Air temp was 14 degrees, zero degrees with wind chill due to 20 mph winds, 17 mile 3 hr run. The ice inside my outer layers was from perspiration that froze, never reaching the outermost layer. To me, people who do these kinds of workouts like that that here in the winter, or like Desert Dude or the Texas guys in 100 degree weather in the summer are serious triathletes (a response I made to another recent thread). You may not be competitive, so what. Not everyone is born a great athlete. I'm not Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Does that mean I can't own a basketball? So, whether it takes you 2 hrs or 4 hrs to finish an International distance race, if you put in those kinds of efforts, or you are willing and able to suffer a 16 hour day in an IM a) you are a triathlete and b) you are not a poser.

I still worry about the steep entry price for new people and especially young people. I have another hobby, flying sailplanes. You don’t even want to think about how much money can go down that hole, equipment-wise. However, there is a serious problem with that sport here in the U.S. and around the world, it’s dying. One clear trend is that fewer young people are getting into the sport. Not so clear, but a factor, is the expense of new sailplanes. There are only an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 soaring pilots in the U.S., and this does not appear to be sufficient for long term health of the sport. Are triathlete numbers in the U.S. all that much larger?

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

"There are many reasons that people get into triathlon"

The easiest explanation is that for 99% of us triathlon is a hobby and people like to spend money on their hobbies.

There is a guy in our roadie group that went thru AA and changed his life around. Recently he bought a new $3500 bike. He told me that he used to spend more than that in a year drinking in bars and had nothing to show for it.

So there are a lot worse things to spend a few grand on than a bike.

Ashburn,

It's obvious, triathlete36 was not breast fed.

Here's some of my background as to why I "insist on buying a $3000 bike": I am contemplating a move that will make me the biggest posuer in my little corner of the world, ie a Titanflex. I am researching the heck out of them, and am working up the nerve to do it. Only been triing 1 year (cycling 20), and am ok swimmer (when I practice), good on the bike, and the world's crappiest runner. Overall bomop last year. All this = POSEUR

So...my history: I have had 8 whiplashes in my 36 years, and three deranged discs, one in my middle back when I was a teen, and two more in my lumbar spine this winter when I was a pedestrian run down by a car. My aluminum Specialized is absolute hell on my back and neck, to the point that I don't ride it outside anymore. I dread outdoor rides. Thankfully with the TdF starting, I have a great excuse to keep it planted in the trainer in front of the tv, and still ride it 2 hours a day.

A good, expensive bike that minimizes my back injuries, and keeps me riding, fit, and mentally and physically healthy justifies the chunk of change that I am thinking about. It will last me the rest of my life, and I anticipate never buying another bike again.

Lesson: you never know why a person has made the choices he/she made. We each have our own history: injuries, huge lifestyle changes in process that you know nothing about, etc. Passing judgement (which you did) demeans the other person, and makes you look like an insensitive person, which I am sure you are not.

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it's because today's american society doesn't put as much value on what you do, rather on what you HAVE. advertisers have pretty much done this. look at all the ads and billboards everywhere that allude to you only being happy if you buy their crap. buy this fancy fighter-pilot-grade wristwatch and you'll be super cool. buy this diamond ring for your chick and she'll be beautiful, slender, and sophisticated. buy this bmw and you'll be the envy of your neighborhood. how about being the envy of your neighborhood because you raise kids that aren't punks and they see you running 5 times a week instead of sitting in your driveway and drinking beer next to your new $10,000 jet ski? anybody can sign up for a tri. they get all the gear and they DO race, put they do it to show off that they're a triathlete. buy enough of the crap and it sure looks like you are one, right? but it's not the doing that important to them. it's how much they spent on their bike. I do have to say that I don't think this is really very many triathlete's though. they may come and go, but once you start, you either get hooked on the sport for what it really is or you quit.

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http://www.barefootrunning.org

This is easy to answer.... for I maybe considered a "poser". We "posers" have disposable income and we like spending money.

I had Coach Potato for seventh grade phys ed.

sorry dude, you don't get it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're under 25 years old.

Perhaps there is a problem with how this question is posed. It has been stated on this forum many times that triathlon is an expensive sport. The question (‘why so many posers’) denigrates anyone who is an MOP or BOP’er and spends a lot. People do it for any number of reasons, as presented.

Perhaps we could avoid the playground response (‘none of your beeswax’) and accusations of mental instability if we were to rephrase and ask why some people spend so much on this sport (‘poser’ being only one such reason). This is a legitimate question insofar as this is a forum that deals broadly with the topic of triathlon.

"assume you're under 25 years old. "

He states that he's been doing tris for 20 yrs. That would mean he started at age five or under!!

Tom drives a Lexus?!?!

Don't ever come into the gym where I train, that is unless you can bench more than 325 and squat and deadlift 500+. And, if you are going to wear a tank top you are required to have a minimum of 17.5" arms and a 42+" chest. All else makes you a poser.

The facts are:

- better equipment will make -anyone- faster. Even if you only average 15mph on the bike, a disc wheel will make you faster. In fact, the slower you are the more absolute time you will gain.

- most that do triathlons want to go as fast as they can given what training background and genetics they have.

- wheter or not you place in your age group is linked to genetics first, years of training and hours of training per week. Some MOP and BOP train real hard, and yet will never place very high. Does that mean that they should not be allowed to go as fast as they can ?

Trying to place a bar where people are allowed to buy better equipment is not only stupid, arrogant and foolish, it is plain old discrimination. In spirit, not different than separate bathrooms for coloured people. Extreme example you might think ? No, everytime you are trying to impose different sets of rules to different group of people, you are well on your way down that slippery slope. And as usual, people that promote such rules usually put the bar right behind them.

Can't believe I actually responded to such a thread...

Francois in Montreal

"Tom drives a Lexus?!?! "

Only when he gives the chauffeur the day off.

20 years in the sport! It only took me 8 years to go from Geek on a Mtb - Poser - Team USA. Get my butt kicked by my Italian friends who call me "posare". Get up at 4:30AM. Sleep in on the weekends until 5:30AM. Work out 1:30 WD, 3 hrs WE. Work 10 hours a day. Play with the kids and do homework from 6:30 - 9:00. Play w/ the wife 9:00 - 10:00. Weekends hang out with the family. BUY WHAT EVER THE HELL I WANT!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

"... great bikes aren't a right, but rather a privilege for the special few who've put in the training to deserve 'em."

That's the most ridiculous and elitest thing I've ever heard. What are you, a Roadie? :)

Why does buying cool stuff, when you're a MOPer or BOPer, make you a poser? What if I buy the cool stuff, but wear a sign that says "filthy, stinkin' rich MOPer" ? Does that alleviate the "poser" issue? I wonder how many of the "posers" out there really care whether someone thinks they "deserve" their $4000 bike or not.

It's this kind of attitude I had hoped to never encounter in triathlon. All those great folks out there who encourage you just to get involved and finish a race are what has made triathlon, in my opinion, the "friendliest" sport I've ever been involved with. I'd hate to see those people replaced with attitides like yours. Worry about yourself, not someone else. IMHO, If you get a charge out of beating the BOPer riding the tricked out P3 while you're on your 20 year old Schwinn, then you're no better than the elitest Roadie who looks down on triathletes, 'cause they aren't "real cyclists."

FWIW, I'll never have the "commensurate skill or ability" to ride a bike like Lance's or Tyler's or Jan's or Peter Reid's or Tim DeBoom's. But I know that if I ever won the lottery, the first thing I'd buy is a REALLY expensive, fast, aero, bad-motherfucker tri-bike. Why? Because I CAN. I have the RIGHT to spend my money however I want. And I say to Hell with anyone who thinks I don't "deserve" to ride the bike of my dreams, regardless of whether I'm good enough to finish in the top 5 of my age group at Kona.

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Steve Perkins

Why so many Posers in triathlons???

Name a better sport for posers to 'hang out' in, and cuz it's easy to get away with.

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put the mettle to the pedal

I totally agree with you, Wile E. Most people probably sink their discretionary income into activities that interest them, no matter what the activity or hobby.

As far as appearing to be a poseur, I am such a beginner that I fear I would qualify as one no matter what kind of bike, suit, shoes, or sunglasses I have. I don't believe they make products commensurate with my ability. So, I'll buy what I want; whatever costs the most and is the shiniest, thank you very much.

If you had an extra $3000 to blow wouldnt you go out and buy your dream bike? If you can afford why not buy it? I would.

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-----------------------:)
SUPPORT OPERATION REBOUND:
http://www.operationreboundcalifornia.kintera.org/ejs3

Kestrel Syndicate
Macca Fan Club

Being a "poser" or non-poser is a matter of attitude. I have no problem with anyone having great equipment, regardless of ability. It does irk me when some people act superior to the rest of us solely because they have better gear. The best way of dealing with these "posers" is to soundly beat them and then listen with an amused smile while they make excuses. "the run was long", "the water was dirty", "the Gatorade upset my stomach." Whaa.

People who show up at the races aren't posers - they're triathletes.

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Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Swim Series | Old School Aquathon Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD

Dude,

I am sorry for what that Priest did to you as a child but please don't take it out on your fellow triathletes. We are here to help you though it might be difficult to erase all the memories of what your dad and his friends did to you.

According to your definition, I guess I'm a poser. I'm in my fourth year now, and have just upgraded to a great bike with my family's help (they all pitched in). I must say, going from a ~15 year old Murray Sebring to a '04 Caliente makes a world of a difference. Who knew that actually having your feet attached to the pedals, and dropping about 15lbs from the bike would help?!

I am certainly not a podium finisher, though I've made that my goal to shoot for in a couple more years of racing. For me, training and racing is about the experience...not about the place I finish in. Granted, I feel a bit better after the race if I do half-way decent, but losing...or DNF'ing has it's merits too. Sure, I could still do a race on the Sebring sitting in my garage, but if something makes the experience a little more pleasant, then why not go for it? If you're having fun, and you've got the cash (or your family), what's wrong with that?

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-
It is said that if you want to know what you were doing in the past, look at your body now; if you want to know what will happen to you in the future, look at what your mind is doing now. - H.H. Dalai Lama

Lurk mode 'off' for this riddle: What do you call someone who does a 16:59:59 Ironman (using a $5k bike to boot)?

Ready?

Answer: An Ironman Triathlete :)

I could not agree any more. However I would add more to it than that. What annoys the hell out of me is people who have just gotten into the sport and talk about how they need to get Dura Ace or Ultegra when they don't even know the most basic things like, pulling up when you pedal and basic bike technique or those with really expensive and nice racing flats but have to walk up some hills and look like they have ankle weights on because their form is so bad.

I started out as a swimmer and enjoyed the purity of it. No one could hide behind some equipment or no one did it as a hobby as some people claim when they buy expensive tri equipment. It was all about the pain. \

But what you talk about is all around society. I think there are a lot of posers for a lot of stuff.

it was a sarcastic jab at his attitude,,,,as in that of a 25 year old. sorry.

As the great Eddy Merckx was quoted as saying "Ride up grades dont buy upgrades."



I operate from a different angle than many but do not begrudge those that choose to see it another way. That is, I race a modified mid-priced road bike. I usually see a rack full of high priced trigeek machines when I come into T1 and an empty rack when I get off the bike. Maybe I use this as motivation to train harder than those guys with more money than fitness/ability. I wont put them down for spending the money but I do enjoy beating them. One day I will probably buy a tri specific but for now this seems to be working.

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Jim

< It does irk me when some people act superior to the rest of us solely because they have better gear.>

This thread is about people like Triathlete36 and yourself that act superior because they are faster than many others. I've been in the sport long enough (15 years) to know that quite a few fast age groupers think that all athletes faster than themselves are studs and all athletes slower than themselves are lame and, of course, poseurs if they happen to have nice bikes.

I so fully agree with one comment that said that the very best are usually humble. Most of the assholes are usually found in the top 10% of age groupers, where I would assume you and Triathlete36 usually finish races.

Francois in Montreal

PS: I did not say that all top 10% age groupers are assholes. In fact most of them are nice persons. I said that the assholes are overrepresented in this group.

I got into triathlon 3 years ago and I'm about the same age as you. I have friends who I ride with that have bikes that are well over 3K in price and have never toed the line. When I started this sport and dropped the coin for a wet suit, and eventually a P2K this season a few of my friends asked me why I spend the money and participate in the sport. The answer for me has always been, and will continue to be, that I don't compete against the other people in the race. I am competing against myself and making sure that I can improve my times and feel good about what I do. I wasn't blessed with the genes to run a 6 minute mile for any distance over 3 miles, or be able to swim a 22 minute mile, but I do consistently finish top 20% of my age group. If you think I'm a poser because I have a nice bike and a wetsuit then I would say you're about as misguided as you can get about why most people participate in the sport.

Hello,

To me the shame is that he stopped riding, not the bike or the $. From the tone of it he has the money and $5K isn't keeping food off his table. To me part of the problem is that their are two kinds of bikes -toys and the "real" bikes we use. Everyone knows a toy bike is under $100 so they cant under stand why you pay more. When someone in my office pays 40K for an SUV and I tell them their nuts you can get a hyundai for 10,000 people look at you like your an idiot, because they know the difference. My point is the middle class has a lot of leisure time and money. Some choose to spend it on travel, wine, golf, cars, women, triathlon, jewelry,whatever. Even on the high end triathlon is cheap.

Why do they make cars that can go over the speed limit?

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Beam bikes!!Yeah go for it. I love my SR TT7. You can adjust the geometry to whatever you want whenever you want.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

I think the three T's offering greatest improvement and critical approach to success in Tri. Swim=Technique, bike=Technology, Run=Toughness.

I believe most of the bikes are actually in the $1800-$3000 range (lot of Ultegra in T1)

As to who the poser triathletes are...90% of the penalites or unfair practices for drafting are going to occur in your top 15% of athletes. My experience as a marshal is that mid to back o the pack are much cleaner riders and interested in a fair race (especially true at IMC)

I've got $20,000 in woodworking tools in my garage, but if you ask my wife, I don't actual make anything. Does that make me a poser?

I think the point is, if I've got the money I'll buy anything I please.

And where did I say in my ORIGINAL message that I was faster than everybody?? Once again the original message has been misquoted and paraphrased to fit your own opinion..

You used the very elitist/disparaging word "Poser" in your thread. Hard not to miss the attitude.

Proposed new USAT Rule:

Now we need to decide whether this is per item of equipment or overall. In other words, can I ride an twenty year old bike with big old fatty tires so I can sport expensive sunglasses. That would be my personal preference, but others may differ.

My two bikes are worth THREE TIMES the amount that I could sell my car for - I don't want to be called a "car-poser" so I'm sticking with my Mazda Protoge' for few more years.

Then I guess there's no hope for us to find happiness in a free, prosperous society. Sigh...

a paraphrased quote from a friend, "I wanna make sure it ain't the equipment making me slow" :)

Who are you say someone who buys a pricy bike isn't already doing something worth while for those around them? How do you know what a person on a DA with full Carbon Record does with their life or their money? This whole thread bugs me because we want to discuss what other people do. What do you do to make you think you have the right to judge someone by their materail goods? It is none of your buisness. If people would worry more about their lives and not someone elses what a better world this would be.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

<<I've got $20,000 in woodworking tools in my garage, but if you ask my wife, I don't actual make anything. Does that make me a poser?>>

Dude, you should make a P3 copy out of wood and actually ride it in a tri! That would be so cool. You might not be fast, but you would get mad props from everyone.

Brett

 --- And where did I say in my ORIGINAL message that I was faster than everybody?? Once again the original message has been misquoted and paraphrased to fit your own opinion.. ---

Are you in denial ?

First, you called anybody that does not place in their age group poseurs if they have 3000$ bikes (your original post).

Then, you mentioned that you have in fact a 3000$ bike.

Then, you HAD to tell us about your racing credentials (as high as 4th overall).

Sorry, but you fit very well in the category I described in a previous post, that is: 'fast age groupers that think that all athletes faster than themselves are studs and all athletes slower than themselves are lame and, of course, poseurs if they happen to have nice bikes'.

I don't know you, but if I had to bet, I would place my money on the fact that you are in fact part of the asshole group overepresented in the fast age groupers.

Francois in Montreal

"And I think if people worried more about someone else's lives and less about their own, it would be a much better world. "

Damn dude I wish I could be I could be just as judgemental and self important as you.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Haha, I think that's the best idea I've seen in this thread so far. Don't use a wood that's too expensive though.
Mahogany out
Pine in

I hadn't even thought of that. Screw carbon fiber, my bike is made out of English Walnut Burl and the saddle is Corinthian leather.

Actually, I think we're on to something. I don't think you could use solid wood though. It would have to be some type of a plywood lamination. But since I'm not fast, it would have to be construction grade plywood.

Cheap fiberboard more likely. Used as underlayment for floors.

Hell, how about sheetrock?

Just don't sweat on it...or are you good enough to be allowed to sweat?

I think I can sweat, I just can't do it while wearing any "technical fibers". Stop by and say hello to me at your next race. I'll be the guy wearing grey sweats with the red, white, and blue headband...dying of heatstroke.

I'm training for my first triathlon, and have gone through the "I'm really slow but wouldn't it be cool if I could afford one of those" drooling at the LBS. I'm more a biker than the other two sports and so don't feel "out geared" on my relatively bargain basement $1250 Giant TCR 2. I do, however, sometimes feel like a poser in a $15 pair of goggles. I am not against investing in a new toy, however. I feel that having slightly higher end gear than purhaps is necessary at my current level only serves two purposes. 1) It is DAMN fun to hammer off 50 miles on my bike, and there is no way I would ever wake myself up on Saturdays after a full night of college drinking if I had an old Huffy waiting for me. 2) It drives me to train harder so I'm not the one on the nice bike being dropped by the person on said Huffy.

That said I guess what I would say to those who look down on the people that have more gear than they need is this; take a minute to encourage them, tell them they have a sweet bike and you hope to see them when your out on your rides. Most likely they'll become excited and ready to log some more serious miles and will eventually grow into their bike. In any case I'm sure they have just as much fun cruising along at 15mph as you do at 27. So relax and let them enjoy a sweet bike.

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"If ginseng really does aid in mental clarity, we're encouraging Brit to drink up." -E! Online

Half the fun of any hobby is the gear (please refer to my earlier post regarding woodworking tools). If gear doesn't do it for you, then great. But if it does, so much the better.

If you become so elitist as to resent others for their toys, perhaps you need to find a different hobby. As someone else mentioned, the only reason there is good gear for the few elite athletes to buy is because of the weekend warrior the has the disposable cash to fund the bulk of the industry.

Ask Slowman who his bread and butter customers were a QR. Ask Tom D. what kind of customer keeps his lights on.

Both sheetrock and particle board are good ideas. No fair putting fancy finishes on it though. Spray paint
Or crayon

A little Krylon might work. If I don't use some kind of finish the sweat dripping from my cotton clothing would cause both sheetrock and particle board to fall apart. That would make for quite an interesting bike split though.

Becasue they feel some sort of dominance with the upscale equipment versus actual performance results. They want to be NOTICED. Posers are vain. That bothers me.

But I also find them comical. There are certainly a bunch of strange folk in this sport. What bothers me is when people prance around in their tri uniform or speedo several hours AFTER the race is done. Of course, this is their choice, but by all means, put some clothes on. Unless of course, it is a hot girl wearing a two peice bikini...:-)

We're certain that's what you ment, no offense taken...

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"I'm single, I can take chances. When in doubt I put on a coat when performing a slipindictomy!"

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"I'm single, I can take chances. When in doubt I put on a coat when performing a slipindictomy!"

Most people who complain about others who have nicer equipment are simply jealous. It's been that way forever. So, they put them down by saying they think they're great, or are just showing off. Some people can simply afford to spend more money on things. If they love triathlon why shouldn't they get nice stuff? It's class envy plain and simple.

The people who annoy me are the back of the packers who are constantly giving "advice" on all the comments pages and other forums. They'll detail their pre-race and race nutrition, bike training, etc. while never mentioning they normally do a 15 or 16 hr IM. I'm not saying these people don't belong in the sport though. There's room for all of us. I just don't think people who normally finish in the back of the pack should be giving advice on what "works" for them, unless they clearly state what sort of times they're getting in their races.

"I just don't think people who normally finish in the back of the pack should be giving advice on what "works" for them, unless they clearly state what sort of times they're getting in their races."

I would have to disagree with you. Obviously they aren't coaching the top pros but consider if they are coaching someone who wants to do an IM for the first time and is only concerned about finishing. Such people could be an invaluable source info for a newbie since they've already accomplished what the other person wants to do..

Also consider that being a great athlete and and great coach don't necessarily go hand in hand. There are some great coaches that could barely play the sports they coached and other great athletes that flopped badly when they became coaches.

when you get into triathlon/duathlon and you need to buy a bike, why not go top of the line? It makes more sense than buying a cheap bike and replacing it after a year or two. And with any gear, if I had it to do over, I would buy the top of the line stuff from the beginning. Maybe then I wouldn't have had 4 trainer bikes. On the flip side, I waited to see if I would like triathlon and improve before buying expensive stuff. It's a waste to fork over $3000+ for a bike that collects dust in the garage.

I didn't get upset with this post, I usally place very well at races (lot's of medals in the 30-34 AG). But if I was a MOP'er or BOP'er, I would be upset at the comments. What upsets me are the amount of people who enter a race and don't RACE. They are happy to just be there? Why enter a race if you are not going to compete to the best of your ability. I don't get this and I know others disagree. I in no way think that slow people suck. I have great admiration for those that give it their all only to finish well after the rest of us.

You guys have one thing wrong. Some of you have said that the slower people lack training. Maybe, maybe not. Being fast is a gift. Some people I know train a lot and they still are slow. What is a lot? Depends on who you are talking to.

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Olen

I've only read a couple of posts, so sorry if this is repeated....but whomever started this thread is a f%$#ing moron! The fact that we participate in a very EXPENSIVE hobby creates the so-called "posers" in the first place! Let's see....an entry fee @ $50, an entry level tri-bike @ $1200, race wheels @ $800, a pair of tri shoes @ $100, A pair of running shoes @ $75,.......I could go on all day.

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RunFAR Racing Services
http://www.Run-far.com
Team Cambridge
Hilltop Bicycle Repair

I wholeheartedly agree that someone can be a good coach yet not be really good at the particular sport. That said, I think people need to know what they're getting when they get advice. I guarantee you that many slower people who give advice have not "studied" the sport. They basically just finish races, which is totally fine. However, if someone is looking to go sub-11 or whatever it would be very nice if the person giving the advice said something like "well, my IM finish times are around 15 hours, but I've found drinking Ensure during the bike helpful" or whatever. Also, I'm sure some of the "blame" would be on the person who would blindly take advice from some unknown person on a comments page or forum. To be clear, I'm not against people giving advice. I just think they should let people know what they're basing their advice on. Certainly no offense intended at anyone or group.

why so many in triathlons? B/c they aren't fast enough for duathlons.

just kidding, duathlons have posers as well

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

The trouble with sports is athletes.

Just a thought .

Dirtball

Tibbsy, I think we've found our first CO-Jackasses of the week...Triathlete36 AND Casey.

Vote them in now. They're perfect.

I disagree with your view that BOPs shouldn't post on this Board.

Aside from your T36esque attitude of exclusion, I would say that it is more relevant for a 15 hour IM finisher to learn how OTHER former 15 hr. IM finishers improved to say 12 hours vs. how some Top 10% jerk (as identified by Francois in Mtrl, above) improved from 9.75 hours to 9.25 hours.

What's with all the ASSHOLES on this board?

Glacier, you need to learn to read and comprehend posts. I never said BOP's shouldn't post on this board and it pisses me off that you say I did. Your saying that I did makes YOU the a-hole, not me. Other than that, it seems we actually sort of agree. I've been saying that the person giving advice needs to let people know where they're coming from. Your example was perfect. If someone has been a 15 hr IM and figured out how to cut it to 12 or 13 hrs I'm all for them posting advice on how they did it. I think I'm learning a good lesson about why some people (like me) usually don't post on this forum - other people will literally change what they said to suit themselves and then argue that they shouldn't have said what they didn't say in the first place. On the off chance that you weren't actually referring to me when you mentioned all the a-holes then I apologize.

I re-read your post. Here are the comments I have a problem with:

"I guarantee you that many slower people who give advice have not "studied" the sport."

"I just don't think people who normally finish in the back of the pack should be giving advice on what "works" for them, unless they clearly state what sort of times they're getting in their races."

First, assuming you (and T36) are not "BOP" (in what race, btw, the Olympics? Kona? Age group?), please state all of your PRs with links so we can verify them. I think it is EXTREMELY ELITIST AND RIDICULOUS to say that only "BOPs" should declare their times before posting. I would imagine that both you and T36 pretty much suck compared to Simon Lessing.

I was not specifically referring to you as an "A-H", but then my comment could have been read to infer that, so I apologize. :-)

But hey, if you're gonna post something clearly negative about "slower people" and the quality of their posts, you gotta EXPECT some potentially negative feedback. It's a free board... you're free to post your views, others are free to respond. But I was out of line in reverting to the A word, admittingly.

Dude, maybe you are a sub 9 IM guy, and you hate scanning through all the "useless" (to YOU) posts on this board from 12.99 hour MOP/BOPs on what works for them. But this is an OPEN board for ALL triathletes who love the sport and desire to improve/learn about themselves. If you want to start your own Board for Elites (with minimum qualifying times) please go right ahead.

[B]Why is it people insist on buying $3000 bikes, wear $100 sunglass, swim in $400 wetsuits but can't place in their age group or even the top half of a race overall?? [/B]

Because it is the easiest way to "increase speed" (or so the thinking goes). Making life changes like losing 15+ pounds, correcting technique, etc in order to increase speed are more individually demanding than paying for expensive, lighter equipment.

I would say it also has something to do with peer pressure also. Everyone wants to look like the pros. There is likely some status in having some nice gear.

Every sport is like this. Folks will use anything legal that can improve their performance. Marketing plays to this. How many websites/sources out there actually say you can "finish in a respectable time with minimal equipment" vs. those that have numerous ads for high-end equipment? What is the message being sent here? How many bike shops would sell someone lesser equipment saying "for your situation this is the money best spent"?

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Glacier, I accept your point that it's elitist to expect only BOP posters to give an idea of their times when posting. I'm not a particularly "fast" IM. My times range from around 10:45 (IMF, flat course) to 11:25 and I work my butt off to get those times. I'd normally need to shave an hour off my times before I could qualify for Kona. Either that or get a 25 person roll-down. Needless to say, I can't strut around looking down on people simply because they don't place in their age group. I should not have just referred just to BOPs when talking about giving advice. While I might not find some of the advice from a 16 hr IM particularly helpful I probably also wouldn't find some of the advice of a 9:30 IM helpful, assuming it was geared toward doing that sort of time. Someone else made a reference to this earlier. If I followed what your typical 9:30 IM does I'd likely be overtrained and injured in a couple weeks. Thus, if I remove my reference to just BOP's when I say it would be nice to know what people are basing their advice on I think we basically agree. Also, while I agree there are some really fast triathletes who are essentially jerks looking down on the rest of us, I've found there to be as many or more slower people who call the fast people elitist jerks simply because they're fast. There are always going to be jerks out there (normally, they're the ones calling other people jerks.) I've found most of the people I've met at races to be nice. I'm heading off to Franfurt this morning for IMG where I won't place in my age group or qualify for Kona. I'm just hoping enough people speak English there to make it an enjoyable experience. I think it will be. Thanks for clarifying your post.

As far as I know this is a free country. AND how do you know they only race /train occasionally? How do you know they aren't a pro just doing a race with the back of the packers? How fast do you have to be to ride a nice bike? Why are you the judge of these things? How do you know they have not just came back from a serious illness? How do you know they weren't a fast triathlete and took some time off? Could the pro's call you a "Posuer" ? I think we have a great sport and should enjoy it without judgeing people we don't know. I HATE judgemental people -----"woops"

I have a theory... and some day I hope to conduct the market research study to support it. Here is goes...

I would guess that depending on the earnings demographics of participants, there is a direct correlation between the amount and frequency of spending, and the perceived enjoyment and duration in a sport.

Many of my friends, myself included, use the timely purchase of a new pair of running shoes, or a trick upgrade to my bike... as motivation. Sometimes I am probably not even conscious of the purchases effect.

When there is a lot of stuff to buy (triathlons, golf, etc.) there seems to be great enthusiasm at the higher earnings level... and sport like soccer, ultimate frisbee, flag football... not so much.

Just a theory... but in America we are shoppers, purchasers and proud owners of stuff... good, or bad?

Maybe USAT or the Olympics should fund this study given such deep pockets?

I'm at the BOP because I am a grandmother who rides a Litespeed, not a Porsche.

And I can swim and I can bike and I can run, and I can do them all in a row, so I'm no poser, no matter how slow I am. But at my age, I need all the comfort money can buy.

I'm an anti poser. I do have a custom frame but built the bike up around exsiting parts from my previous bike or used parts from ebay. Total was just under $2k, built w/DA. I still love looking at bikes and always perplexed by three things at races. $1500 wheelsets and $500 dollar bikes, $4-5k bike w/ training wheels and why don't more people use discs.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Triwz, have a great race in Frankfurt. I'm dealing with ITBS now so all I can do is work on my swimming and think long-term . . . have fun out there, wish I was competing with you!

It's easy to flame folks on an Internet board (self guilty), but I think most of us on Slowtwitch are a pretty cool bunch.

That's AWESOME. Keep on racing Gma, you are an inspiration for what this sport is really about.

I want to get as fast as I can just because I CAN, but what I really love about this sport is the lifestyle of fitness, the comraderie (friends I've made), and the fun of competition (for PR, for age group slot, but most importantly for the sheer joy of finishing).

So you gonna pose in the Girls Of Slowtwitch calander we are doing to raise money for a gold statue of Slowman?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.