Hi Matt,

Will it be like the original photo, or will the cable have more of a 'central' location to put it in line with the head tube?

Stephen J

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

Niche? Absolutely. The same goes for lightweight brakes, but there are plenty of options out there because people are willing to spend the money in order to achieve a certain number on a scale. The same obviously goes for aero items, except that they actually make a whole lot more difference in speed!

Looking forward to this. If you have the option, definitely do a batch in black, as that's what my Zipp 2001 is begging for to finish it off.

Chris

Hi matt just wondering how progress is going with the brakes

m@tty

M@tty,
Thanks. I probably should have replied on Slowtwitch rather than on email. The arcs that were used to make the shape more aero ended up making them a real pain to machine. These brakes must be aero and the testing shows that they will provide a significant improvement over conventional brakes, so even though it does not make life so easy, I am not going to change the exterior surfaces from the pictures that were uploaded. They should be done early October.

Even though CNC does not lend itself to rounded airframe shapes, it does allow for the a large hollow frame that is not possible with forging, so this is still the best way to go. There is no way to have such a large continuous surface that extends to the fork and frame while keeping the weight down without some serious hogging out with the mill.
Thanks,
Matt

That is good to here. Black, red, and possibly polished are planned with white laser etching. With all the carbon equipment out there, black is a pretty safe bet.
One response asked for white, but contrary to what some magizines will claim, there is no such thing as "white anodizing", only white paint, so that one is out.
Thanks,
Matt

It will be similar to the original photo. There are actually some subtle changes to make the exterior surface a tad more aero. Underneath the surface, the brake will actually be very different to what was pictured, but those are springs, stops, and other geometry that will not affect drag. Talking to racers, I find that there are the following zingers that a triathelete needs compared to a conventional roadie:
1. More return spring force is needed because some Tri bike levers do not include return springs.
2. The brake needs to open far enough to accomidate those crazy 23mm wide rear rims.
3. Some brakes make it tough to switch out different types of wheels, solid, spoked, or training, because they all can have different widths. The barrel adjuster must be highly adjustable to accomidate a variety of wheel widths.
4. The general priority seems to be a) Drag -> b) Weight -> c) Stopping Power

some very cool ideas there.

Nice design. I would definitely consider a pair for my P3. Black w/ SwissStop Yellow pads.

Hi Matt.

Polished gets my vote.

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

Black gets my vote.

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-Cartels: Serotta, Zipp 2001, Guru, eh?
-"It was kinda long and then i got really tired"

4. The general priority seems to be a) Drag -> b) Weight -> c) Stopping Power

I think this is a great idea, but please don't bow to the stupid weight weenies who think that weight actually matters. Ever if this brake caliper weighed two or three pounds but reduced your drag by a few watts it would still be faster than a 85 gram lightweight caliper, even on hilly courses. So please don't spend excessive time or make it way more expensive in an effort to make it light.

Make that list a) Drag b) stopping power

Chad

Agreed. I'd say even more it's like a1) Aero, a2) Stopping Power, f) weight. I want a front brake that works, especially in light of how many new bikes are potentially compromising the functionality of your rear brake (my assumption is that this brake is going to be most effective as a front brake). I don't want it to be a tank, but other than that, I don't care about weight. Certainly I'd trade better stopping power for a heavier weight any day.

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X2

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Just make them aero and don't worry about the rest!

I am using Weinmann (no stopping power), MRC (awesome stopping power), Zipp, etc (all center pull) on several bikes, and although the Weinmann on the front of my Softride has virtually no stopping power, it does not dissuade me from using it -- because it's completely invisible inside a custom carbon fiber water bottle bladder container. The bike stops fine, although I suspect it's 95% because of the quality of the MRC's. Wish I had purchased another pair of those when I had the chance.

Chris

The brake looks great, nice work! I think you should find a good market for it as long as it's reasonably well executed and isn't astonishingly expensive (expensive in and of itself shouldn't be a problem, LOL). You will want to sell the calipers individually rather than as a pair, P4 owners would be a likely target for their front brake.

(Rant follows, not directed at you Matt.)

"4. The general priority seems to be a) Drag -> b) Weight -> c) Stopping Power"

Wow. So a bunch of amateur athletes are willing to compromise personal safety in persuit of small performance gains and cool gear? Yikes.

I suppose for a nontechnical standalone TT on a quiet road some argument could be made that stopping power isn't that important, but this is a tri forum. You folks are racing in very crowded fields with lots of poor bike handlers, and you don't think stopping power is important? Not to mention the frequent instances of other unforseen things such as cops letting vehicles through intersections when they shouldn't, etc. And not to mention that on any course that is at all technical, having bad braking will mean you have to start braking sooner coming into a turn, meaning you are not just compromising safety, but actual performance.

Okaaaaaay....

That quote about stopping power does not mean under powered. In my view, as long as you can lock the rear wheel or pull the back tire off the ground, you have enough to be safe. In terms of panic stops, newer mtb disk brakes can give you plenty with 1 finger, Dura Ace is about 2 fingers, and 2 to 3 fingers for a TT brake is still pretty good and better than your typical single pivot (excluding M4s of course).

For comparison, I would recommend trying a pair of Campy Deltas, or Hookers. Very nice TT brakes admittedly, but all 4 fingers with the lever sunk into the bar is still not going provide hard stopping.

FYI, a CAT 2 TT rider once told me that he only runs the brakes on his TT bike to get it past the officials. CAT 2 is not pro in road racing, but that is actually a really competitive and seasoned category.

Of course, that is not the majority sentiment and I think that yours is, so lets say Safety -> Aero -> Weight -> Stopping Power is more accurate
- yes, stopping the bike is the whole point.

If he's doing TT's he is losing time at the turn around,Ride till your right at the turn around, brake real hard, turn then get up to speed again,crappy brakes do not let you do this. Looking foward to seeing your finished product.

 
It's been my experience that brakes that some consider to be "weak stoppers" can be made more than adequate with the right brake pads.

Koolstop salmons on aluminum rims are my favorite combo. Without those pads, I doubt I'd be running single pivot Cane Creek 200SLs on my road bike still...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

 doubt I'd be running single pivot Cane Creek 200SLs on my road bike still...

I've been running the same brakes on my road bike for several years now without issue. On my tri bike I only run my rear brake with enough stopping power to cause a bit of drag. Why would you want to lock it up? The front brake is only tight enough to really grab until it is hitting the bar.
I've raced tris that way and trained on the roads for eight years. "Lock up the wheel, do an endo" braking power is way overrated.

Chad

Late braking into a turn is certainly an energy efficient way to shave seconds.

I don't think that braking power always equate to faster stopping though. While triathlon/TT does not typically involve much braking, mtb does. Allot of the trails that people ride today with full hydraulic disk were ridden at speed 15 years ago with cantilevers. There are certainly some road brakes out there, especially some of the older ones, that fall too short on power. However, there are actually some design gains by going with slightly lower leverage if it is done right.

Below is an article on modulation and stopping power. You have to be pretty geeked out on brakes to enjoy it, but this captures some of the major tradeoffs in brake design.

http://www.simkinsdesigns.com/modulation.htm

I'd suggest designing a centerpull model, if the intent is to design a faster front caliper

Other than a centerpull design, one can use a Tektro as Tom did, and it will be the fastest option available commercially today* - faster than any sidepull

*(not including hooker)

I tested (LSWT wind tunnel in 2006) centerpull and sidepull calipers, and the tests detail the difference that cables make, and a centerpull brake is faster for two primary reasons -

-exposed cable diameter is much smaller than cable housing diameter
-exposed cable is mounted in front of the headtube vs. cable housing off to the side, on the side pull models (exception being calipers such as EE brake)

FYI, that Tektro is hard to get ahold of. Even QBP doesn't carry it. I contacted QBP directly for that, and then I emailed Tektro and they said the T726R is for OE only.

By the way, could you discern the Aero savings in grams of going to a center pull? (Assuming that is shareable information).

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Joe

Its all about the cable housing, and a small caliper - which is why the Hooker tests very well

Alternately if center-pull is not an option, this brake has the right idea going

There is a pair of Tektro calipers on Ebay right now with a buy it now option and you could easily do the conversion that Tom A. did. The price looks about right as well.

There is another options for center pull aero brakes but you just have to look for them carefully.