Additional comment regarding Kona bike data- not sure it means much without "normalizing" for wind conditions. There is no doubt that the last 8-10 years have seen some of the best conditions in regard to wind, as compared to some very brutal years from 2000- 2004. Not entirely sure about 1995, but my fading memory remembers it as reasonably good. So if you look at the data points in 1994-1996 and compare to the recent 3 years, you will not see nearly as much change as the overall data is presented.
Probably a better way to judge equipment improvement is the 1 hour cycling record, which has improved at roughly the same rate as running and swimming records- another indication that equipment "improvements" are a bit over rated in the sport of cycling (marketing influenced??). Of course, maybe it is the compression socks :-)

Since 1995 the bike times of the top 10 finishers have improved 17 minutes

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

The hour record is tricky to use as a comparison because the rules have always been in flux. The rate of imrpovement during the period when people could use TT bikes though was much much greater than running records (Green line) while the eddy M record was completely stagnant for years

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

other comparison points:
10k run world record has improved by 0.8% since 1998
UK 25 mile TT champs have improved by 1.9% since 1999

1 mile and 1,500 meter running world records have improved 0% since 1999

Pursuit has improved 1.8% since 2004 (just 7 years)

Or we go back to when the 1,500 record was more active, the 10 year span from 1975 to 1985 saw a 1.4% improvement

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Jack, reading your posts has actually made me change my vocabulary on this topic (but not my opinions) because there tends to be a lot of cross talk on this topic. Instead of saying "she lost three minutes" for example, which statistics/physics minded people bristle at (you never had the three minutes to lose) I now say "you could gain the potential for three minutes". We could go back in time an dress Daniela up in an aero lid and her time could be the same, worse, or better than how she road with a a regular helmet.

This reminds me of the proximate clause "sine qua non" in liability cases. One camp is saying "but for her choice of helmet, she could have been 3 minutes faster" hence the term "lost three minutes". Those of us who doubt that don't necessarily doubt the merits of the aero helmet or evidence that it can potentially make you faster, we doubt that her performance would have dramatically changed because of one change in equipment. Look at it another way, say she road with an aero helmet and went slower, that isn't necessarily evidence that aero helmets are useless - she could have road slower for a myriad of reasons we are all familiar with.

thanks for supplying excellent data. Question on the one hour record data- the chart seems to show a lot of data points and progression in a very short period, which appears to be 1996-1998. Why is there no data (green line) after aprox. 1998?

That is why I said 2 minutes +/- 1 minute =)

You could aero weenie yourself 10 free watts and still choose to ride in the front paceline, and go 0 seconds faster on the bike. Presumably you would run faster for having spent less energy though. Who knows how much

However in Ryf's case she was off the front TTing much of the race. In those moments she absolutely would go faster, if you went back in time and reduced the drag of her setup.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

The UCI continually changed it's rules around. The rapid rise in the green happened because of technology and position advancements. Then the UCI split the record up into two records - one where you could only use round steel tubes and box rim wheels, and one where you could use TT bikes.

People lost interest in the record at that point.

Then recently they went back to having just one record, with TT bikes allowed. This seems to have reignited interest, so we may see new records soon.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I was rooting for a Kona rookie to win so I was pulling for her to win the whole thing. I am curious about her helmet choice, someone should ask her. Even though she is a Kona rookie she is not an inexperienced athlete so she must have had reasons that made sense to her at the time. If she made a mistake in that choice she will either say so or next year she will be a in a different type of helmet. She wont be a Kona rookie anymore so I am going to have to find a different dark horse to root for.

News flash...the aerodynamic savings of aero helmets have NOT been established solely on the basis of "helmet only" testing in wind tunnels.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Scientific experimentation is extremely rewarding. Part of the process is avoiding superstitious types' crap. In Ryf's Kona case, even if she did no personal testing, there is no shortage of data for similar helmets, wardrobe, and hair. Thanks for all your tire Crr testing!

+1

Indeed. I did some A/B field testing earlier this year of helmets and a decent heuristic was the quieter the helmet the faster it was. The only notable exception I recall was the Bell Javelin: quiet but slow for me. Scott split tested fastest and was among the quietest.

Interesting...does the Scott come with a face shield/visor...and does it have venting along it? That's one of the things I don't like about the face shield on my old LG Rocket; it tends to fog up under certain conditions.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Assuming she maintained the same power output for the duration.

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http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
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Do you have any evidence to support that changing her equipment would lower her power output?

Don't you have some selfies to take and a new coach to hire?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Exactly my point, in the hypothetical that we replaced only her helmet and everything was exactly the same she would have gone maybe faster. However, it is impossible to replicate every condition on a 112 mile course from day to day, or hour to hour for that matter.

That just justified me logging on today.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

It doesn't come with the Split but you can order one. They come in three tint options if I recall: mirrored/dark, brown/medium, and clear. It seems everyone on Orica GreenEdge uses the visor. I used the mirrored dark and it was surprisingly nice. I think the lens itself was designed by Zeiss or another high-end manufacturer. Minimal distortion and the design with the vents along the top is smart. Didn't fog up for me or accumulate sweat.

My data from earlier this year was noisy so I couldn't tell you if it was slower than sunglasses or not. Couldn't coax enough of a difference in A/B testing to know but, for me, the deal-breaker was that having the visor installed made the task of putting the helmet on much more difficult/slower.

It's a very nice helmet. I'm surprised more people don't use it.

Ha! I will assume that means you agree with me and take it as a compliment.

Don't you have some real world experiences to try and quantify and put in your spreadsheets?

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http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
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Just asking again...


@ jackmott, TomA, Jim@ERO

Do any of you have data/thoughts about the Kask Infinity?

I actually would definitely buy myself an aero helmet, if only I could find one that was either better fitting, better looking, less awkward to get on/off or even just one that seemed like value for money for me (no matter the price). The closest that I have got to finding one that ticks those boxes in Australia (with Aus Standards Certification) is the Kask Bambino but the Aus version is actually a crappy watered down version of the real one (apparently to meet safety standards) and I really can't quite bring myself to plonking down the cash for what seems like poor value for money (and the only size available here is the Medium, which is pretty tight on me).

So in the interim I have found that I quite like the Infinity and don't mind the Evade. Are they reasonable options?

Thanks very much.

Sam.

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Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia

Pretty sure this has been disproven...

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

Bottom line is there are aero lids that are well-ventilated like my P-09 (without the vent cap) or Lazer Tardis and ones that aren't (several come to mind).

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Slightly off topic, and side stepping the discussion, but I have noticed over the years that certain topics are prone to bring about the worst kinds of interactions here. And among those topics, anything related to aerodynamics seems to be very "effective". Just say'ng.

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