Why don't we simply congratulate her on a great inaugural race instead of pointing out that she could have gone faster with different equipment.... For a first timer, she did incredibly well and deserves kudos instead of criticism......

No one here is scoffing at her accomplishment. On the whole, she did amazingly!

Besides, this thread has shifted away from directly criticizing her and back to the broader aero lid in hot weather debate. Even if it wasn't, no one learns anything by praise...only criticism, thus the term: constructive criticism.

I find that rationalization kind of odd...especially since IME, wind noise is actually reduced with aero helmets that cover your ears, as compared to a road helmet.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

And I agree with her re: wind noise.

However, I suck it up anyway.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Maybe it's the helmets you guys use?

That's the thing I like about my TT helmet...the quietness of it...almost makes me want to get some of those cat ear things for my road helmet straps...almost.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

That's after your brain learns to filter out the whooshing. I only put mine on a few times a year and the first thing I notice is how loud the air is around the ears. 10 minutes later I'm amazed at how quiet the ride is.

But the whole building isn't insulated, just the top floor. You have 95%(?) percent of the wet skin surface area exposed to 35km/hr convection current to provide evaporative cooling. This is balanced with incoming radiation from the sun and humid/hot wind reducing the effectivity of evaporation cooling.

You also have the fact that most women have thick hair which insulates their head without regard of the helmet choice. I speculate that the presence of thick wet hair on a womans head is the dominating factor with regards to the cooling capacity and the airflow from a helmet is a secondary factor i.e. the ability of the head to shed heat from evaporative cooling is dominated by the insulating effect of hair and not the airflow itself.

Quick question..... Does anyone know a good roofer in Phoenix? I'd like to have my attic insulated before winter and this thread seems to have moved beyond Ryf, beyond Aero v. Un-Aero, beyond heat dissipation, and into effective home insulation.

This is where I bring in 'evaporative cooling' (ie sweat). The thing is that we can argue degrees (pun intended) all day long, but the fact of the matter is that a fully enclosed aero helmet retains more heat in the head than a vented road helmet. The net cost of wearing an aero helmet on a hot day can (in some athletes view) be greater than the overall cost (performance wise) of a non-aero vented helmet.

I concede that aero is important with regards to performance on the day. I also contend that heat rejection (including evaporative cooling) aslo plays a part in overall performance. My contention is that on hot days, a vented helmet is likely to have a slight advantage overall, with respect to overall speed/finishing time, compared to an aero helmet.

Since some athletes wear aero helmets and some wear vented standard road helmets suggests to me that A) they are very close to the same thing and that B) the crossover point varies depending on the athlete. And I won't even bring in the 'placebo effect' discussion........except that I sorta did. Sorry :-)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

hehehe,

Not only do I race with a vented helmet on hot days, and not only am I an HVAC designer, but I also worked for several years as a roofer! Just last New Zealand summer, I stripped the sheet metal roof off my house and insulated the attic then put the roof back on. (it was impossible to get insulation right to the eaves, from the attic access hatch, so the roof had to come off).

My house is way cooler in summer (my heat pump only has to run about 1/3 as much as before) and in winter it's even better. It's now worthwhile using my log burner/fire place rather than the heat pump all the time.

Unfortunately I don't know any roofers in Phoenix. Try the Yellow Pages or Mr Google. I will say however, that if you can find a way to store some of your excessive summer heat, for winter use, you'll be on to a winner! I was in Arizona for the first time just last year, and I can say that I don't even like it when chicks are that hot! How the f*%& do you train in that heat?

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Wind noise is probably the wrong term....it is the amplified sound of my breathing and the way other sounds seem to resonate inside the helmet, while normal outside noises are distant.

And I have had the same effect in a Selector, Wingspan and Bambino.

And for the love of gawd, don't even consider the dumb-ass ears....just get some round foam insulation (used to fill cracks and gaps) and attach to your helmet straps. Does the same thing and is not furry. Still looks kinda dumb though....

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

But...that's the sound of SPEEEEEED! Embrace it. Enjoy it :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

@ jackmott, TomA, Jim@ERO

Do any of you have data/thoughts about the Kask Infinity?

I actually would definitely buy myself an aero helmet, if only I could find one that was either better fitting, better looking, less awkward to get on/off or even just one that seemed like value for money for me (no matter the price). The closest that I have got to finding one that ticks those boxes in Australia (with Aus Standards Certification) is the Kask Bambino but the Aus version is actually a crappy watered down version of the real one (apparently to meet safety standards) and I really can't quite bring myself to plonking down the cash for what seems like poor value for money (and the only size available here is the Medium, which is pretty tight on me).

So in the interim I have found that I quite like the Infinity and don't mind the Evade. Are they reasonable options?

Thanks very much.

Sam.

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Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia

The fact at the end of the day is that there is no proof to show that a not ventilated aero helmet reduces power output or produces slower finishing times with respect to road helmets. Aero helmets have been repeatedly shown to reduce finishing times in almost all conditions. Any contrary conclusion is speculation without science or evidence.

By what mechanism do you believe a non ventilated aero helmet reduces performance? Higher skin temperature of the skull, higher brain temperature, higher core temperature, central governor reduction... or some other performance reducing mechanism. Loss of heat rejection through the skull causes/contributes to _________ which reduces performance. Hint: "Overheating" is not a valid answer.


How many of these athletes have done testing with both helmets to show that they are objectively (not subjectively) slower with an aero helmet? Most likely none.


Great thing! Using science, testing methods, GPS, power meters, lactate and/or HR any placebo effect is not an issue. Unless you know of a way where by placebo effect can fool these tools and increase performance.

Placebo effect? Similar to being passed by a hot chick, and miraculously managing to go faster.

As for scientific testing of aero vs vented is soooooo difficult to develop a test to isolate JUST that issue in reliable way.

the difference is so close either way that perception (not necessarily placebo) effect influences the outcome.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Ky-Ko Roofing
1912 W Parkside Ln
Phoenix, AZ 85027
United States

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http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear

Buy overseas and transfer a sticker from some crappy Australian helmet.

EDIT, supposedly they're scam proof these days :/ sux, as shit is so expensive in Australia

EDIT 2, you don't need a Aus certified helmet in TA sanctioned events, they only have to be recognised by a federation that is an affiliate of the ITU
http://www.triathlon.org.au/...ompetition+Rules.pdf
Page 6

I've used five different aero helmets over the years. They're all way louder from a wind noise perspective than a road helmet.

I think you're the outlier here, Tom. :-)

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I've never noticed wind noise from aero helmets either.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Part of it could be that I usually tape up all the vents on my helmet (limited as they are on an LG Rocket) and use the face shield visor...plus the tail has been "boxed in" (which eliminated some annoying "whistling" at certain head angles on the stock helmet) ;-)

That said, I've also ridden with plenty of other aero helmets at times (RP Wingspan, Specialized TT2, etc.) and never noticed wind noise...and recall them all being quieter than when riding around with a road helmet.

I have a feeling it may just be that the sounds are "different"(as Power13 wrote above), and that's what bothers people?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I get a lot of crap for overthinking bike setup but I swear everyone overthinks it, some people just overthink ways to do it wrong.

"oh it sounds funny and also this skin suit causes hateful perceptions and"

SHUT UP AND PEDAL, FUCK

Sutton has the right idea at least with the "shut up and obey" attitude. Just needs to slightly improve his bike setup orders.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Yeah, I really think that is it. The difference just gets referred to as "wind noise" when it is really kinda the opposite (and the fact that aero lids can seem to amplify other sounds such as breathing, etc).

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

When considering heat from an aero vs vented helmet, do not overlook the effect of the sun directly on the skin. In 2005, I did a test pre race with vented vs aero, and felt consistently "cooler" in the aero. There was no question it was due to less direct sun on my head.
I am very skeptical of the data of time saving for an aero helmet, or any piece of equipment tested in a wind tunnel individually- which is grossly out of context to the real world. A bike goes no where without a body on it pedaling, the same is true for an aero helmet. If we are to believe all of the data for aero improvements on frames, wheels, clothing, helmets, etc since 1995, then we will have to believe that the athletes in 1995 (Allen, Scott, Van Lierde, Helreigel, etc) were far superior to todays athletes, as their bike times were very similar to today's, and their run times were better!

Bike times have improved since 1988 by about 14 minutes, which is actually more than you would expect from equipment claims. You would only expect about 6-8 minutes from the changes in equipment

Run times have also improved but not as much as bike times

http://austintriathlonstore.blogspot.com/...nman-bike-stats.html

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

From 1988- yes there have been big improvements, that is why I noted 1995. Most of the improvements you have noted from 1988 occurred by 1993- 1995, and are likely training and nutrition based, not equipment. The Kona times dropped substantially over those 6-7 years, but not much at all since.