Maybe Robbie Haywood will see this thread and be able to talk some sense into Sutto about equipment choices.
Ryf has several Red Bull painted aero helmets.. she wore them for all her other races this year.

The best answer is ---- she lost absolutely NO time at all.....

The time "gains" from wearing an aero helmet are SOOOOOO incredibly theoretical as one can't factor in to wind tunnel data which helmet she would have wore to begin with... whether the winds would have caused her to position her head in such a way that the aero helmet created MORE drag.... overheating... etc.. etc...

She wore the helmet she wore and rode as fast as she did.....

Das Ende

I lost 10 IQ points by roasting my brains in a TT helmet there, if I am ever dumb enough to go back I will wear a road helmet. Way easier to cool off the head with water with a tt helmet too.

I bet she lost zero minutes overall when you factor in everything.

That usually isn't possible, also you could chose to hold your head properly, like Kienle does (and Tony Martin, and Wiggins, and anyone else taking the discipline seriously)

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Her head was down a lot but this is easily fixed.

Funny during all my races in the south with a black helmet I have never felt overly hot, no more than what I did with a regular white road helmet.

Any evidence that an aero helmet would cause more drag than a road helmet for certain head positions?

Head down is fine.
Just pick a helmet that works with head down

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I'm suddenly imagining an aero helmet that looks like a conehead.

Nope...road helmet is always slower.

Kask Bambino is apparently pretty good for head up OR head down: http://www.bikeradar.com/...trial-helmets-34859/

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Your cognitive dissonance is showing...

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Interesting...Jim from ERO said that the Bambino was only good for a rider who usually kept his head below his shoulders.

FWIW, I have had positive experiences with the Bambino. Used successfully in both HIM and IM races this year. Have no idea if it was the "best" choice for me, but it was light, fit well, and was surprisingly well ventilated. Literally had not one drop of sweat hit my glasses in IMWI.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

You guys have way too much time on your hands for caring this much about this subject when the short answer is she probably didn't lose any meaningful time because of her helmet choice.... Too many "what ifs" to draw anything from the debate.

How much time did Chrissie Wellington lose by not wearing an aero helmet? Heaps I bet....

No "what ifs"...just physics and math. It's really not that complicated...

I don't know...Craig Alexander seems to think aerodynamics matter...http://gearpatrol.com/...iew-craig-alexander/

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Like so many things in life, there is no silver bullet. Everything has positives and negatives.

While you can measure the time benefit of an aero helmet vs a well ventilated standard road helmet, that's not all that's involved.

For example, there's the improved cooling of a standard helmet. The human body performs best physically at a given temperature, that is some amount above the normal resting temperature. I seem to recall that muscles work best about 102degF (that's why we warm up afterall, to get the muscles working in the most efficient range). At the same time, with the brains consumption of huge amounts of oxygen and energy, it also produces a lot of heat. (that's why in winter, wearing a hat of some kind, is so effective in keeping you warm). The heat in your head needs to be dissipated in order to avoid overheating (and overheating of the body, not just the brain). If you don't dissipate enough heat from your head, you A) don't perform as well mentally or B) perform as well physically because your overall temperature is too high. This is why you see athletes douse their heads in water when riding or running hard. It cools off the head and the body overall.

An aero helmet is not as effective at cooling the head as a vented road helmet. In cool conditions it may be a non-issue but in hot conditions it's more important. There is a crossover point where a vented helmet is a better overall choice, even if the aero calcs say an aero helmet saves you X time. AND, the crossover point varies from person to person.

Training is not only the time when you hammer your body to go faster, it's also the time to test different equipment to find out what works best for you under different circumstances.

Me? I function badly in the heat. I switch to a road helmet just about any time the temperature is over about 75degF. But that's just me.

---

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Probably somewhere around $10k.

---

Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

And therein lies the problem with saying that she 'lost' 3 minutes by not wearing an aero helmet. Plugging theoretical numbers into a spreadsheet does not take into account the many other real world factors involved in racing at Kona. Steffen wore aero last year and a road helmet this year - there is obviously a benefit to a road helmet in her opinion, or experience. Who is to say that Steffen has a different physiology to most others and therefore benefits from a road helmet? Linking to Crowie's chat about aero proves he went better with an aero helmet - it does not prove Ryf would have gone faster. You have to run off the bike, if an aero helmet overheats YOU - and only YOU know if that is the case - then wear a road helmet.

I personally would wear an aero helmet. I go well in the heat and have no heating issues. All other arguments are N=1 and a spreadsheet can only guide to the aero physics of the situation, not define the real world reality of what would be fastest for YOU.

---

http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear

I am pretty sure that Crowie stopped using a road helmet because someone proved to him that an aero helmet doesn't overheat you, it make you feel like you are overheating which isn't the same as actually overheating. Can't find the article to link...

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Well not so fast on that one. http://www.livescience.com/...-heat-loss-head.html

Hugh

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Crowie discovered an aero helmet did not overheat HIM - this has no bearing on Daniella Ryf. We can only guess why she did not use one - we cannot take the results from a spreadsheet and claim that she would have been 3 minutes faster at the finish line. That is my point.

---

http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear

I've not seen that happen very often, if ever.

---

AndyF
bike geek

Thanks for bringing science.

It may be that hairy heads block helmet vents with enough insulation to essentially negate road helmet vent cooling, and as you know from our tests, there are ways to increase airflow over the head while reducing overall drag, so this whole road helmet argument misses the target.

Just looked at the bikeradar link...........sweet! My $100 Nashbar special Bell Javelin is one of the fastest! :)

I wonder, when Jim did the testing with the triathletes on the indoor track.....were they really seeing wattage savings of that much (30 watts) when compared with road helmets? I think about the difference in feel between, say, 230 watts and 260 watts on my indoor trainer, and it just seems very hard ot believe a helmet choice makes that difference...

The following facts were established early on:

1. Aero helmets are more aero than road helmets
2. Ventilation does not cause over heating
3. Winners, both male and female, wore them

The only people that seem to have a problem with any of those facts have not brought anything but anecdotes.

As slowman says, we are all more similar than we are different. Unless Daniella is an alien, her physiology should be not that much different from any human. She will essentially generate he same watts of heat for every watt to the bike wheel, and her ability to dissipate heat will be dependent on her volume to surface ratio and her percent body fat. Her percent body fat should be very similar to all elite pro women, and her volume to surface area should be pretty well identical to every pro woman of her height and weight. If anything, pro men generate more heat as they are doing more watts and their volume is relatively higher than women for their surface area, so they will have more trouble dissipating heat. The head is only a small amount of surface relative to the entire body. and the part covered by the aero helmet relative to a vented road helmet is an even small subset of our total surface area.

So as much as it would be nice to think that Daniella defies basic physics, she's more than likely in the same scenario as all other lean high performing pros when it comes to Kona heat dissipation. Sutton, unfortunately does not understand physics, and that is fine. He gets awesome results out of his athletes, but he COULD get even better results out of them if you picked up the low hanging fruit that requires no actual training!

Which she obviously is not because she is Human.


Essentially yes - not that much different. In detail - no she is an individual. Therein lies the problem with generalization.


She may generate similar amounts of heat. She may have similar percentages of body fat. She may only cover a small part of her body like everyone else in the race. How this affects her performance is individual to her - as it is to Steffen (who has used aero and road helmets in the past and chose a road helmet this year) as it is to everybody else in the race. As an example, some will say it was very hot - probably come from a cooler climate to race. Some will say it was normal for that time of year - probably come from a hot climate or maybe even live on the island. That is all about perspective - you can perceive its going to be hot - you can perceive its going to be normal. That could affect your choice of equipment rightly or wrongly. The fact Steffen wore a road helmet is evidence enough that some think an aero lid is more of a hindrance than an advantage.

Throw as much science in as you like. Spread sheets, heat dissipation maps, thermal images - whatever you like. Its the perception that its either hot or its not that is the starting point. That is not science, that is not a spread sheet, that is experience and very dependent on where you live, train and can guide equipment choices.


I never said she defied physics, I said a spreadsheet showing a 3 minute gain using an aero helmet does not mean she would be 3 minutes faster at the finish line, a statement that I believe is fundamentally correct.


Whether Brett Sutton understands physics or not I have no idea, and I acknowledge the concept of what you are suggesting. I cannot and you cannot say whether Ryf would have gone faster at the finish line with an aero helmet, only she can. She/Brett chose a road helmet and it must have been for a reason.

---

http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear