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How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without an Aero Lid
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Since we're talking about Frodo's T2 and at the end of the day Ryf lost by 2 minutes, what would an aero lid be worth? It's fine if you are Chrissie and can run 2:52, maybe you don't want to give away the aero lid savings if you are running 3:05+ range
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Oct 12, 14 18:18
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Since we're talking about Frodo's T2 and at the end of the day Ryf lost by 2 minutes, what would an aero lid be worth? It's fine if you are Chrissie and can run 2:52, maybe you don't want to give away the aero lid savings if are running 3:05+ range


You haven't learned how to do that math yet?

I get ~3 minutes over 180k assuming same effort and a .010m^2 CdA difference (~difference between a typical road helmet and an "aero road" helmet like an Evade)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Oct 12, 14 16:37
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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3-4mins
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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She seemed to be overheating on the run. An aero lid may have done her more harm than good. Maybe she knew that.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I knew that was the range, just checking in to see if it would have given her the race win assuming she can thermally regulate for the run. Seems to work fine for Kienle Carfrae and and many more.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [arby] [ In reply to ]
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The head represents a small surface area of the body and transfers a very small amount of heat. Studies have consistently shown that wearing a non ventilated helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

This was simply a poor equipment choice that cost her the race.

Carfrae wore an aero helmet.
Last edited by: Nick B: Oct 12, 14 16:11
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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You can follow that theory but I think it can cause overheating.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Nick B wrote:
The head represents a small surface area of the body and transfers a very small amount of heat. Studies have consistently shown that wearing a non ventilated helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

This was simply a poor equipment choice that cost her the race.

Carfrae wore an aero helmet.

That jersey wasn't doing her any favors either. Sutto is her coach and he has always be notoriously curmudgeonly about euipment choices.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [arby] [ In reply to ]
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It's not a theory, it's evidence.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
Nick B wrote:
The head represents a small surface area of the body and transfers a very small amount of heat. Studies have consistently shown that wearing a non ventilated helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

This was simply a poor equipment choice that cost her the race.

Carfrae wore an aero helmet.

That jersey wasn't doing her any favors either. Sutto is her coach and he has always be notoriously curmudgeonly about euipment choices.

Exactly what i was thinking as well. Easily gave up 0.7-1s/km compared to something better fitting/aero like the top 3 men wore on the bike.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [arby] [ In reply to ]
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 I've trained on hot days and raced on hot days and I get more sweat running off my head and onto my glasses using my regular ventilated helmet than I do with my aero helmet. I can't think of a single time that I've felt hot from it. Granted, I haven't raced in Kona...

my n=1.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
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I train in the deep South. Humidity is the killer. I melt in a non-vented helmet. I melt in a vented helmet, just not as much. They are faster no doubt, but to say that certain individuals that have a tendency to overheat might not be adversely affected with a non-vented helmet isn't realistic in my opinion.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Nick B wrote:
The head represents a small surface area of the body and transfers a very small amount of heat. Studies have consistently shown that wearing a non ventilated helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

This was simply a poor equipment choice that cost her the race.

Carfrae wore an aero helmet.

There is a difference between over-heating and the perceptionthat you are over-heating.

If someone thinks they are over-heating, they will likely slow up or adjust their power output. You can't assume that their power would have been the same.

Could she have gone 2-3 minutes faster? Absolutely. Would she have done that? No one knows.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [arby] [ In reply to ]
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arby wrote:
You can follow that theory but I think it can cause overheating.


It doesn't appear she has a particular helmet sponsor, so there would be nothing preventing her from utilizing at least a "stealth aero" helmet like a Specialized Evade, a Giro Synthe, or an LG Course, all of which have plenty of venting.

The 3 minute estimate I made above was in respect to one of those types of helmets. Tack on another 1.5 minutes or so for a full aero lid...like the male and female winners both wore ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Oct 12, 14 16:46
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Nick B wrote:
The head represents a small surface area of the body and transfers a very small amount of heat. Studies have consistently shown that wearing a non ventilated helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

This was simply a poor equipment choice that cost her the race.

Carfrae wore an aero helmet.


There is a difference between over-heating and the perceptionthat you are over-heating.

If someone thinks they are over-heating, they will likely slow up or adjust their power output. You can't assume that their power would have been the same.

Could she have gone 2-3 minutes faster? Absolutely. Would she have done that? No one knows.


I know what you are saying. Macca and Crowie both wore vented road helmets in the past. Macca never won Kona until he wore an aero helmet in 2007. In that year, Macca ran 2:42. Crowie finished 2 min behind him and wore a vented helmet. In 2008 Crowie won wearing a vented helmet. Same thing in 2009. 2010, Macca came totally decked out in all the aero gear he could get including aero helmet and won. Crowie wore vented that year. Next year Crowie shows up with the full "HOLY SHIV" set up...aero everything and sets the course record and actually won the race on the bike. Ralaert and Jacobs ran faster but could not close the gap.

Since Chrissie, all the women's races have been won on rides with aero helmets...Rinny + Cave.

Since 2000 I am pretty sure that the only guys to win Kona on a vented helmets were Crowie (2008, 2009) and Tim de Boom. Peter Reid, Stadler, Faris, Macca, Jacobs, Crowie (2011), Kienle all on aero helmets. Van Lierde wore a stubby helmet for Kona last year. Not sure what you count that in.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Oct 12, 14 16:55
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Show me this studies, please. Show me the peer reviewed, scientifically sound, randomized studies that show a person in a non-vented helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

Eight people in 30 years at Kona have gone to the ICU with heat stroke. The last one (2013) was wearing a vented road helmet. Maybe, just maybe this is an individual issue.

But nonetheless go get me those studies and make sure they're not someone's blog or pontificating. Scientifically sound, peer reviewed studies. Go ahead and grab them, I'll wait.

Bob
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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But look at the Crowie example....how much testing did he do w/ Mat Steimatz before Kona to test body temperatures, etc. swallowing the transmitter so they could measure core temperature, etc.

It took a lot of work to get him last his perception that he would overheat with an aero lid.

I'm not saying she shouldn't have worn an aero lid (she should have). I just don't think you can assume the same power output when doing the post-game analysis.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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>Studies have consistently shown that wearing a non ventilated helmet does not increase internal body temperature.

I'm not that impressed with those studies. The conditions generally did not reflect the length of an IM (12K TT, etc), relatively mild heat stress, small sample sizes, and narrowly defined conditions (one Specialized helmet vs. one Giro TT helmet that's probably one of the better-vented TT helmets out there, etc).

I'm not saying they're "wrong," just saying that after reading those I'm not telling myself, "Well, damn, *that's* settled."

However, my n=1 is that my best performance of the year (cycling) was a 20-minute solo breakaway in 90-degree heat with a Giro Attack, not the most ventilated helmet.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
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Get em yourself ya lazy bugger..... ;)
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Giro Attack, not the most ventilated helmet.

Not the most aero either according to many people who've tested it in the wind tunnel.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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>Not the most aero either according to many people who've tested it in the wind tunnel.

OK, going slightly off-topic, do you know what's one of the better road aero helmets that's not the Evade? (the shop I race for will not let me ride Specialized).
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [Nick B] [ In reply to ]
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Not lazy, just wanted to see if you would post something newer than eight years old using dummies in a wind tunnel wearing wigs...or when studied in an event longer that a 12km TT.

Bob
Last edited by: Macho Grande: Oct 12, 14 17:10
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [trail] [ In reply to ]
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LG Course

I've been hearing a lot of people say it feels like the most ventilated helmet they've ever worn.
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Re: How Many minutes did Ryf Lose without Aero Lid [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:

>Not the most aero either according to many people who've tested it in the wind tunnel.

OK, going slightly off-topic, do you know what's one of the better road aero helmets that's not the Evade? (the shop I race for will not let me ride Specialized).

Get the Specialized, put McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Jack in the Box and Taco Bell stickers over everyplace it says Specialized.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.
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