My main point is that the current literature on this subject has established that over a 12K TT an aero helmet does not affect body temperature, etc. IMHO, if someone wants to extrapolate that finding out to Irondistance racing they're WAGing so hard the dog is shaking. Ideographic examples and individual athlete equipment choices do not constitute scientific evidence. They simply do not.

Another point, we rely on wheel and bike companies to produce wind tunnel data out the wazoo and dismiss those who do not, yet in the case of aero lids we've rarely, if ever, asked or questioned cooling for the rider.

Oh and Chrissie never wore an aero helmet....yet she did pretty OK. She did win the IMWC a few times, right?

Bob

I think when you understand the huge increase in heat production that comes with a few watts more at the pedals the extrapolation is not at all so crazy, especially since head temperature stabilized 10 minutes in.

225 watts at the wheel (typical FOP pro woman) - 750 watts of total heat production

275 watts at the wheel (typical FOP man) - 916 watts of total heat production

300 watts (men in this test) - 1,000 watts heat production


and yeah chrissie is the worst example to use for equipment arguments because she was so much more fit than the others it would take gatorskins to cost her the win.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I do think extrapolating is reasonable. It think these studies show that there is relatively little heat transfer coming from your head. If there is relatively little heat transfer to your head, more airflow is not going to change anything. Not to mention other things like an aero helmet can keep the airflow attached to your back, instead of an area of stagnated flow on your back that will not be helping keep you cool.

What I think that this individual athlete choice is showing that at the very least an aero helmet does not actually cook EVERY athletes brain, I think we can agree on that simply looking at some of the results of the race. So athletes at the very least should test! Sure an aero helmet may not be the right choice for every athlete at every race, but it is silly not to use one in Kona just because you think it may be too hot.

Here is another study:

Effect of an Aerodynamic Helmet on Head Temperature, Core Temperature, and Cycling Power Compared With a Traditional Helmet. Journal of Strength and
Conditioning Research 27(12): 3,402-3,411, 2013.

same study =)

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

How about this:

Alam, F., Subic, A. & Akbarzadeh, A. (2008). 'Aerodynamics of bicycle helmets', in The Engineering of Sport 7 Volume 1. Springer, France, 337 - 344, ISBN: 978-287-09410-1



Alam, F., Subic, A., Akbarzadeh, A. & Watkins, S. (2008). 'Effects of venting geometry on thermal comfort and aerodynamic efficiency of bicycle helmets', in The Impact of Technology on Sport II. Taylor and Francis Group, Netherlands, 773 - 780, ISBN: 978-0-415-45695-1

Hi Bob...agreed that extrapolation may not be ideal, but we don't wait until the 100 year flood to decide what building materials are needed to survive it after testing materials in that environment. Science is used to extrapolate all kinds of stuff. We don't wait to get to mars to collect data to decide what systems are needed for rover to work on Mars. In any case, designing a study during an IM would be very tough to get actual data. Between shorter duration testing as well as the countless N=1 field testing from athletes, it is reasonable to put 2 and 2 together. As a bare minimum, there are better drag profile vented helmet options such as the Evade that she could consider.

I do feel that Sutton is leaving some time on the table with his current athlete (Ryf) and former athlete (Steffen). Steffen may also have been in the same boat in 2012 gunning for the win. She lost to Leanda Cave by 64 seconds. Maybe that truly was Caroline's win that she let slip away thanks to Sutton being a bit of a luddite when it comes to this stuff. When the win margins are 1-4 minutes, every second counts and it is too bad if Sutton is so close minded that he won't let his athletes try technologies that others are having success with.

Steffen used a Wingspan in 2012.....but I don't beleive she used one last year. Have no idea what she used Saturday.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

She has said before she does not like the sound of the wind when wearing an aero helmet. Also she feels like it heats her head up more.

The Evade may test the best but a lot of pros cannot wear one because of sponsors, no way would Cervelo let Steffen wear one. But there are several more brands out there where she would not be causing any conflicts.

OK, I was wrong about 2012. I guess she just needed to run 64 seconds quicker!

Or wear a faster helmet.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Steffen wore a road helmet this year.

http://firstoffthebike.com/...s/2014/10/bike12.jpg

Surely that has got to be some kind of reference point for those who believe a road helmet would be better. Steffen has raced with both, and chose a road helmet this year. She would be aware of the potential gains and losses of both choices, and she is not the best runner. She is looking to maximize her bike leg gains against Carfrae and start the run with the biggest gap.

You can plug numbers into a spreadsheet or mathematical model all day long, they only tell you what happens aerodynamically when you put a different helmet on your head. Or hopefully they do - you need accurate data to start with and I assume you have accurate data for Ryf's frontal area based on the 2 models? They do not tell you what happens to your core temperature or your interpretation of how hot you feel, your mindset going into the race or your feeling getting off the bike to start the run. Just because a spreadsheet says you would have been 2 minutes faster does not make it so.

---

http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear

Gatorskins would not have cost her the win.

Your heat production example is probably accurate, but not all the gains go to the head do they? In fact very few of those extra gains go to the head where the helmet is preventing the heat escaping. I think it would be difficult to say the study is accurate because you would produce more heat in the 12K TT than you do on an Ironman. Was the 12K TT done on the way to Hawi in 100+ temperatures and high humidity?

---

http://mobile.twitter.com/BLambTriathlete
Athlete of the Week
Meet the Team
Headwear

I talked to a pro who trains with her and he said the coach won't let them use aero helmets or disc wheels in any race. Apparently he almost fired her for running a disc at Wiesbaden.....despite the fact that she won the race.

I've had pretty good luck with spreadsheets at that level of resolution actually.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

In 2011 it probably would have.




Like I said before, the test conditions were hotter than kona, with less wind to cool you off than kona, with a worst case scenario helmet. They measured core temp, head temp, and power output.

You can get yourself 90% of the aero gains with a ton more ventilation with a lot of different options.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Sutton believes that disk wheels have bad ride quality and will beat up woman too much to use, for some reason this only applies to woman. How much do you want to wager that he puts less thought into tires and tire pressure, things that would have a much larger affect on ride quality.

The guy I talked to races on 25mm tires.....seems like a nice ride to me. He didn't say whether or not the coach recommended it though.

The interesting thing is that Ryf rides HED's. Those discs are just covered spoked wheels. They are not rigid at all. But yeah, he has some weird ideas and I'm sure he didn't consider tire pressure.

---

---

Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

lol. Well done. :)

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Chrissie wore a road helmet, so therefore anyone can win without an aero helmet.

There of course is such a thing as being fast despite less than ideal equipment selection. For example, I thing her bike position is very good and we all know, that trumps most everything else.

OTOH, Crowie had data that a bad bike frame..and possibly contributing to a poor position, could cost you 10 minutes over the best.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Hey Dev,

Are you saying that Daniela might have lost the race because she didn't took the helmet count winner offer of exchanging her old helmet for a new aero one? ;)

I don't know...she might have needed to use a Stadler approved Giro Advantage...clearly that helmet was the only reason Stadler beat Macca in 2006 while setting the bike course record! The Rudy Wingspan might have been too slow for the full 2 min delta...but Jackmott needs to confirm!

She would have needed more than 2 minutes!
I cannot call this one!

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter