I agree with your logic. But logic doesn't have much weight with some of these guys. I suggested overheating might have been a consideration based on the fact she appeared very heated on the run. Maybe she overheats more than some. I know I my heat tolerance is less than some of my friends. But spreadsheets apparently can't measure things of this nature. So I guess we need to add 3 minutes to her finishing time.

Sure it does, if you build the spreadsheet properly.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I can absolutely put core temperature as a parameter in the spreadsheet.

It is actually really easy since the core temp increase due to wearing a Specialized Evade, or similar, is 0. The rest of the math becomes simple.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

But she does not know if she would overheat with an aero helmet. She did not test an aero helmet to even see if she would. Brett Sutton believes that an aero helmet will cook an athletes brain. He ignores all evidence showing that is not a given for every athlete or even most athletes. So none of the athletes use one, but then suddenly are performing fine with them once they leave him. It is not the posters arguing for an aero helmet or at least testing one that are not using logic, it is her coach that has an issue with logic.

Logic-"a particular method of reasoning or argumentation". You guys are great. You stick to your guns. You refuse to admit that anything could possibly vary from individual to individual. I would wager that if someone had posted prior to Kona that the overall winner will be riding with 175mm cranks and no power meter some of you would have said no way in hell that the science will allow that to happen. But it did.

That...in logic circles...is known as a "straw man argument" ;-)






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I think you are making assumptions. Ryf prepared for Kona in Cozumel. Similar hot and humid conditions. Did she test the aero helmet? I don't think anyone in this thread has that information.

Perhaps the amount of hair on Ryf's head has something to do with her decision. She certainly has more hair than Crowie!!

It's actually not surprising that Kienle didn't use a PM. Pros do what it takes to stay in the race/make the pack. Pros tend to be better with their own PE than AGs. As for 175mm, Kienle didn't need shorter cranks to achieve his current position. Shorter cranks don't magically give you more power if you don't need them.

Great!! Now my definition is wrong. Or is it Webster's??

If that's the only definition given by whatever version you looked at, then both.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Tom A. For The Win!!!

only if he is wearing an aero helmet.

No, I think you can. You can come up with a reasonable range of values.

When I put on race wheels I go faster at the same power output than I do with my training rims/tires. When I use my road helmet vs. aero helmet, the same thing occurs. When I sit up vs. being in a aero position, my speed drops. You can absolutely place an approximate value on it.

But like anything, you need to train that way, adapt to those sensations. So much about racing is feel. If you feel overheated, then you'll start listening to your central governor and slow down. If you reject that sensation and focus on just riding, you'll be fine. Slightly reducing cooling to about 5% of your surface area, just won't have that big of an impact.

keep in mind that savings 3-5 watts, means you go just as fast with less power. So if you cut cooling capacity by lets say 2%, but you reduced power output by 2%, then it will be a wash. OR if it allows you to get 1% faster, then you gain some cooling capacity so the heat increase is reduced.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Nope, Sutton believe that aero helmets cook the athletes brain, so none of his athletes can use them. Notice that none of his athletes use aero helmets? Notice how plenty of athletes do use aero helmets without their brains cooking? Do you think it is just a coincidence that ALL of the athletes under Sutton just so happen to all be special athletes that overheat in aero helmets, while most athletes not under him are fine with them? Or that athletes that are no longer under him are suddenly capable of not overheating with an aero helmet? Seriously look up Sutton's thoughts on aero helmets and you will see his thoughts on them. They are not some athletes overheat, it is all athletes overheat.

I wear an aero helmet even when you don't think I'm wearing an aero helmet...say "Hello" to the LG Course ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yeah, and that aero helmet probably cools more than normal, instead of less.

Also, if you avoid an aero helmet because of heat concerns at kona, you should probably first shave your head.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

By the time I get to Kona (never) I won't have any hair to shave. So my Spec evade isn't nearly as aero as that LG I am sure?

I wear that helmet....any data or reports? I love the fit and feel - How much am I giving up?

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Compared to what?

The data out there shows that, at least for a more "head up" position, it's on par with a Specialized Evade...which is within 5W at race speeds of some of the best "full on" TT helmets.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

For most people the spec evade is probably going to be better than the LG course

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Correct.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Yes, and with enough training in similar conditions, you can determine how much your performance is reduced at similar intensity levels. Again, you might find that in the heat you lose 5W no matter what you wear. Then you might find that the aero helmet costs you another 1-2 Watts and lost 0.05mph lets say.... but then you know you go 0.1mph faster. Its' just a matter of having data. Pros ride at least 6 times a week, 50 weeks a year.... if 1/3 of those rides are outdoors, you still have 100 opportunities to test equipment and determine how you perform.

Actually, a handy value would be a Ant+ thermometer placed under you arm to roughly measure core body temp. Then you could overdress on mild weather days and still do some comparison tests on equipment.

But Jack has the best point that keeps getting ignored. There ARE helmets that are have equal cooling AND are more aero. Just as you don't usually ride the fastest tire. You have ot factor in durability. Similarly you might not wear the fastest helmet, you have to factor in comfort, cooling and head position.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Any idea how much better the evade is than the Air Attack (which, since I started reading this forums, I'm gathering was a poor decision)?

Survey says!...

Ryf wore an aero helmet for her previous two IM's before Kona and at the 70.3 WC. So your assumptions about Sutton on aero helmet use are incorrect.