pull the trigger Bob, I know you want one! I likes mine a lot!

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Primum Non Nocere, except to Kempy!

Ps most here do know what we are talking about. We are just saying you spent 8 grand on arguably the most aero bike available and you have messed that up by your current set up. I don't know if you have done an ironman before but it's very easy to get by on two bottles. I just use one. But do what you want.

Pulled the trigger last week, 9.9 with DI2, size large, 100/10 stem, keeps things slammed low to the top tube. Ordered a stinger disc FR with H3d fr for the front. delivery date is 2/21/2011 (not soon enough!).

The trigger would be pulled, but the LBS I'm working with didn't open today. We were supposed to get together and finalize.

Serious bummer.

Mate there is no need to by mega-defensive. If you put yourself out there (i.e. posting pics of your setup) of course you are going to get comments. Instead of being defensive just listen to what people have to say, does not mean for a second that you should follow it. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here on the forum.

Ultimately do what you feel most comfortable with, in saying that I agree with the poster who suggested to ditch the 'aero'drink, on a bike with a crappy front end you can get away with it, but with a bike as good as the SC you are giving up valuable time. A bottle between the bars would be a very good compromise.

Most importantly enjoy your bike, that is a serious and extremely beautiful weapon you have now and the bike looks great, I really like the red tape.

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http://twitter.com/willrc91 --- instragram.com/willrc91

I want to order a speed concept soon but do they make the draft box in different sizes. I want the draft box to be flush/ level with the top tube on an XL. Please don't tell me they only make 1 size draft box! There should be a draft box to match each frame size I hope?

Thanks

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"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

I don't own one of these beasts and I have nothing to do with Trek, but it just so happens when I last opened the thread I landed on a page & post that answered this exact question...weird!

See post #1076 in this thread.

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blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali

What you say is very rational. And it makes sense. I think he isn't too happy with the way people expressed themselves. I understand it because it is just part of the slowtwitch culture. It used to bother me but I got used to it.

I understand what you are saying, but I am no means an amatuer and I think a lot of these guys address people as such. I have had the privelage of talking to, meet, and train with some of the best guys in the world. Triathletes with titles. I am way more open to suggestion and tips from them. And for someone to tell me on here to run 2 water bottles and just grab whats at the aid stations is about as amatuer as you can get. NEVER plan your race around what MIGHT be available at the aid stations. You should make sure YOU have what you need before you leave T1. And I am sorry, but if you are trying to run a sub 10 to low 9 hour IM, 2 bottles on the bike isn't going to cut it. Why do you think every top pro at an IM 140.6 has no less than 3? And every last one of them is running some kind of aero drink between the bars. That includes Chris Lieto who has had the fastest bike splits the last 2 years. I don't train with the Aerodrink in. If I am doing a 50 to 60 mile ride I use the race bottle and cage and 1 behind my seat. I am not trying sound nasty, but I don't think anyone really appreciates being talked to like you have never raced or don't know what you are doing. I've been to Kona and know first hand what it's like. Same for Louisville IM. You take 2 bottles on that ride and you will be done before you even start running. Thanks for all the positive comments on my bike though. I really appreciate them.

You do not need 3 bottles - that is nuts to say you do. There is beauty in simplicity. Top pro's tend to be pretty gifted athletes in general - every seen Andy Potts' aerodrink straw??? Are you telling me it has to be that long??? Look at all the aero advantages Chrissie gives up. They can afford to do things and not necessary look at all the small details because they are that good. I ran two bottles at both Kona and Louisville and would do it over and over again. I could also do it with one and a couple of gel flasks if need be.

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Visit The Chipotle Calorie Calculator

I'm spending too much time on Facebook. I was looking for the "like" button for your post.

I'm just a relay guy. I've done 112 on the bike several times and I've done it on less than 1 bottle each time ... in temps in the 40s and 50s. I learned something today. I've always railed against people hanging all that crap on their gorgeous aero bikes. I was going to join the chorus of folks suggesting you carry less and use what's available on the course more. But I decided to have a look at the pro photos from Kona before I chimed in and I'm glad I did because you are 100% right. Leito, Macca, all of 'em are carrying aero bottles between the bars, multiple bottles on the frame and some sort of single or double arrangement behind or under the saddle.

I've alway chuckled to myself when I see the local tri guys I sometimes train with come out with all that crap on their bikes for a training ride, but I'm a big believer in training how you race (at least part of the time). Now it makes more sense to me. And some of those guys are damned fast despite having to carry all that stuff around!

+1

"I am not trying sound nasty, but I don't think anyone really appreciates being talked to like you have never raced or don't know what you are doing."

I agree. I think that is part of the problem. But I think the other part is how people express themselves. I think it would be helpful if people wrote things like, "You may wish to consider ... because ..." or "It has been my experience that ..." Too many people try to turn their opinions and their experiences into facts.

It's been my experience on this forum that going round and round with someone is usually not worth it. Sometimes I get too emotional and do that. Then I force myself to stop. Sometimes I see posts on a thread I am contributing to where I really disagree, I get the opinion the person won't listen to my opinion and I don't bother responding. I find a lot of it is about "picking your battles."

As electrunus (sp) said - those athletes are gifted - some of whom definately aren't detail orientated when it comes to optimizing their bike.

/curious how LA will roll his speed concept if/when...

By all means - give up free time, I'll take it.

Ummm...every? Not this guy. Unless you want to count the EFS flask as a "bottle", that is...but I have a feeling that's not what you implied above.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...r%20imaz%20;#3091368



However, there's a significant difference between the type of bottle you choose to run and a regular bottle run flat between the forearms like shown above (i.e. it doesn't affect/mar the aerodynamics designed into the head tube...heck, you can't even see it).

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Psycholist,

Yes that might be true to some extent but what you fail to mention is that Chris's third bottle (ie his aero bottle) is a toolkit/flat kit or it least that is what he told me back in April of 2010. Also there is difference between the pros and AGers.... It is advisable for AGers to race their own race, pro's don't have that luxary. If the train is not stopping at an aid station in the pro pack then you don't stop. You have to be prepared to miss a few aid stations. In addition, volunteers tend to be less ready for the leads bikers than you may think. I can't tell you the number of times I have been the lead biker or in the lead group and roll up onto an aid station only to find them sitting in their cars or sitting around talking and you don't get a bottle or whatever. It happens more times than you think. People can choose to be conservative and carry extra bottles, but if you want to lighten the load a bit and improve aerodynamics then that is fine as well.

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Visit The Chipotle Calorie Calculator

I guess it's all in what kind of times you are looking for and your recovery time after the race. These are all issues I talk over with the top people and trainers in our sport. I am trying to turn pro and I am not just IM'ing for the sake of just finishing. My goal for IM Louisville in 2011 is 9:15! Again, I am not telling anyone to run this or run that. Personal set up is just that. It's personal. To tell me I don't need this or need that is just ridiculous. You don't even know me. How can you know what I need and don't need? How about just saying I run this or I run that for this reason or that reason? I like my set up and it works for me. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. And again, everyone that has won Kona in the past I don't know how many years has pretty much the same set up I do. THAT speaks way more volume about my set up than anyone on here could tell me.

If you want to run three bottles then be my guest. I was implying that it is simply bad advice to suggest that everyone *needs* three bottles. Crowiel went to Kona to do aero hemet testing - in the results he determined that his core temp wasn't really affected by helmet choice. Regardless he chose not to listen to the results and went with his gut and followed the *if aint broken don't fix it* mantra. IMO he lost the race because of this decision.

As for me, personally I am just not that talented of an athlete. I need to cross all my T's and dot all my I's to be successful. I run a single bottle between the bars and profile design aero bottle with carbo pro on the seat tube. Also I am a beast and I constantly overheat and drink like a fish. That is all I need and it has worked fine for me in 97 degree Louisville heat and on the Queen-K in Kona. Best of luck with the 9:15 at Louisville.

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Visit The Chipotle Calorie Calculator

Torhans bottle maybe? Looks better for aero.

The rest isn't really at you...GORGEOUS bike and I understand the set up. What is going to make the difference for me is how my body takes on the Perform/Gatorade that is available for IMC. If you look at the top 15 picks from 2010, not everyone has aerobar drink and two in the back. I was surprised (how aero is that big POWERBAR bottle Raelert has?) but Lieto's aero drink is almost within his arms, and lots more of the between the bar cage mounts. Macca's bike is VERY clean, Lieto is pretty sweet, Raelert and VanHoenacker (sp) were decent too. If I don't like how my body reacts to race drinks, then I HAVE to take 4 bottles on the bike. But I'd like to go with less this year, and I think I'll be fine with whatever drink I need.

Torhans seems like a very good compromise ( I like Tissink's homemade bottle, nice little fairing) but a little pricy - although what's another $89 bucks on the end of it!

PS - it is ST - I was going to say a good bike split will shut people up, but you could do a 5:03 IM split and someone will tell you you'd have gone 4:58 with a cleaner set up and less bottles! Gotta love this place!

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Thanks for the reply and they way you replied. That is how it should be done. I am going to train this way for a while and see how it goes. If I feel I can get by withl less, I may TRY it, but that doesn't mean I will stick to it. And for the record, I never told anyone that they should run 4 bottles like someone suggested I did. I never told anyone to run anything. I don't tell people what to run or not run. They are smart enough to figure that out on their own.

What stem did you go with on your SC? How much drop did you end up with after your Retul fit?

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Team Endurance Nation

In addition, volunteers tend to be less ready for the leads bikers than you may think. I can't tell you the number of times I have been the lead biker or in the lead group and roll up onto an aid station only to find them sitting in their cars or sitting around talking and you don't get a bottle or whatever.

Actually, I DO know about that from first hand experience.

By all means - give up free time, I'll take it.


Oh yea. That's me.

fwiw i wasn't repling directly to you...

No problem. I feel really uneasy siding with anyone who's lashing four bottles to their bike. That's so "not me." But then, I'm not racing Louisville or Kona.