Hi Eric,

Thanks for this, and apologies for such a delayed response. I'm still in the hunt for a ~2015ish P5, and with your feedback above on PadX I decided to go ahead with changes you suggested for me in my fit critique thread, by installing a 130mm stem last week. After that, since 130mm felt just a tad long, I also made a few additional adjustments to get comfortable including adjustments to the pads (brought them back about 10mm), the micro-shift levers (brought them back about 10mm), and the seat (raised it 20mm and brought it forward 10mm). Rode for ~5 hours so far and it's feeling pretty good. Here are my new measurements with these changes:
PadX: 431mm
PadY: 622mm
PadZ: 222mm (unchanged)

No rush, though I'm really interested to see where this puts me on the older P5 now. I probably have another 15mm I could move the pads forward on these PD 35a aero bars, so am open to hearing what the sweet-spot PadX would be on the P5 (if I'm not there yet).

Thanks again!

Travis

I think with these new numbers you are solidly a 54cm. If you go forward you could make a 56cm work in a pinch.

Eric

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Thanks a ton, Eric! There are a lot more 54s than 51s I’m finding so that’s good news - this should accelerate the search a bunch!

Hi Eric,

I really appreciate you doing this. I'm looking at a readily available 2019 56cm P-series. I recently had an updated fit session on a size cycle as I change from my primary focus being road racing to triathlon again. I've been out of tri for 10+ years and doing cycling only during that time. I've included both old and new fit numbers. For some reason I can't attach photos or include them in the post. Not sure if they're needed though. I'd appreciate your input on recommended size. It looks like to get me as long as my new fit, I'd need a 120 stem with pads pushed all the way forward. How would the 56cm handle in that configuration? Also, can something like the FSA ACR stem and headset be used with the Trimax bar to achieve a fully internally routed cable setup? Thank you!

I'm 73" tall with 35" inseam.

New fit:

Saddle Height: 803
Saddle Setback: 56
Back of Pad Reach: 533
Pad Stack: 650
Back of pad to shifter: 400

Old (UCI legal TT) fit:

Saddle Height: 815
Saddle Setback: 79
Back of Pad Reach: 455
Pad Stack: 648
Back of pad to shifter: 370

hi, thanks for reaching out.

You bring up a good point, in that we triathletes are not restricted by UCI rules and that difference, while minor in absolute terms, makes all the difference in our fits... it's a fundamental change. Comfort, power, and aerodynamics.

Given your new fit numbers of pad stack of 650mm and pad reach of 533mm, I would NOT recommend a 56cm P-Series. With your reach, you're definitely a 58cm.

Not sure about the cable routing... let me check around. For that sort of thing I just defer to the P5d ;)

PM me a picture if you like.

Make sense?

Eric

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Hi Eric,

you gave me a size advice for a new P5 and asked me to send you some pictures when I get it. Here I am with the pictures and I would appreciate very much if you could give me your opinion on my fit. I did my best to set the bike and get my body angles and everything right. This is a position I had on my previous bike, just i little upgraded. Reach 480mm, stack 640mm now.

I also ordered shorter cranks - 160mm (now in the picture on 172,5) to open up my hip angle a little bit more (not that I feel any problem with it, but still it might be benefitial). I was thinking about moving all my body just a little bit more forward as there is still one more hole on the pads to go further front. In that case I would move the saddle and the extensions the same length unless you think otherwise. Thank you for your opinion.

Kind regards,
Stepan

You look great! I think you look good where you are, unless you move the pads and extensions forward but DON'T move the saddle. Does your P5d have tilt?

Eric

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Thank you Eric! I did quite a lot of tri fitting research to set up this position. The P5d does have the tilt, now set to 10°. I am planning to try the 15° tilt later for sure. I will also do some outdoor aero testing to see what tests faster. I feel pretty good in this position but I will try out your suggestion as well and see how it looks and feels. What do you think about changing to the 160mm cranks? Good idea? Thank you.

Stepan

160mm cranks are great... post another picture when you get a chance.

Eric

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Hi Eric

Have looked in past, but saw a 51cm P5 on the classifieds am interested in. I don’t have a bike fit that I think is quite right so not sure is the right comparison.

Am 172cm tall, 82 inseam, 55.5 torso, 62 arm length, 38cm femur.

Any chance I can get aero on this bike? Has the tilt bars and 165cm cranks. Am looking at P5 in part for ability to evolve my position without messing with changing risers and things like that on traditional bars.

Thanks
JP

It might work. I’d worry at your height about not being able to get long enough, but it might be OK. Tilt is great, but to really make it work you should switch to 155mm cranks IMO. That will pull the whole fit together, assuming the bike has the right saddle for you on it and you are sitting on it properly.

Do you have ANY pics of yourself riding a bike to work with?

Eric

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Here’s one, on a 51cm P2. I was hoping the P5 at that size would allow me to get longer. Might just be too small. If you think I should go with cranks that small I should just a find a new one when the 2022 availability opens up and build from ground up,

My gut, based on the number of spacers you have on your P2, is that you'd be better on a 54cm P5d. OTOH, if you get rid of that "bike shop" or "road bike" fit and get a more orthodox TT fit you might be able to make a 51cm work. You'd have the pads in the all the way forward position and the monopost riser at the right height for you.

Eric

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What are really the effective differences between P series and P5? After a very close call on my rim brake speedmax the other day (still wound up in a ditch to prevent hitting a car for not stopping in time). I'm circling back on if a new bike would be financially feasible. P series frameset is much cheaper obviously and selling the old frame could help. How do the effective pad stack and reach differ?

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Effective pad stack and reach on the P-Series is equal if not more adjustible than the P5. The new cockpit is very versatile.

E

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New cockpit as in the one on the P5?

Thoughts on the D2Z extension and pads? Those would work better on the P series bar I'd assume

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Hi Eric

I hope you can still give me some fit assistance please:

X = 575
Y = 445
Z = 190 (c-c)

155mm cranks.

I'm 173cm tall but with 79cm inseam.

Looking to buy a P5D with EX10 cockpit.

Thanks

I’m going to assume you have X and Y reversed.

Pad stack of 575mm and pad reach of 445mm would be a 51cm P5d. You could also fit on a 48 or 54, but the 51cm is right in the middle.

Eric

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Hi Eric,

Thanks for the amazing service provided here - much appreciated. I'm looking for some advice on a P3x. Doing 70.3 and 140.6 events.

Coordinates taken from current bike, Argon18 E118 (2012) with 172.5mm cranks. Crappy pic attached for reference. Note that I moved saddle up by probably 10mm vs when the picture was taken.

Pad Reach 420 (to back of pad)
Pad Stack 610
Pad Width 240 (outside-outside)
Saddle height 760 from center of BB

Height 178cm / 5'10

As can be seen in picture, most comfortable position is when I don't hold my extensions but let my hands hang loose (I know, the aero disadvantage is real...). Holding extensions or tilting my hands upward in general seems to put some pressure on my shoulders. I can for sure hold it, it's just not super comfi. Probably means non-tilt position on P3x cockpit would be preferred.

Curious as to your advice - thanks.

The reason tilting you hand up puts pressure on your shoulders and makes you uncomfortable is because you're tilting your hands up. Tilting your hands is not the point, is not what you're supposed to do. Like, my hands are high, but not because I raised just my hands up. High hands is besides the point, an output not an input, a symptom not a cause. As it stands, you've got a late 90's or early 2000's world tour TT position. No need for that, we're not limited by UCI rules in Triathlon. There's a hack you can use.

What you need to be doing, or rather, what the point is, the objective, is that you want to open your shoulder angle by adding reach. As you open your shoulders your hands indirectly and naturally come up. It's a byproduct. Then, the bike holds you, instead of you holding the bike.

At your current given stack and reach you're *barely* on a size M in PX series bike, almost off the back end. But if you were to agree that what I'm suggesting is the thing you're actually trying to do, you'd be at Pad Stack of 610 (still) and a Pad Reach of 460mm at least, which would put you in the center of the range of a size M or in the bottom left quadrant of a size L. You'll need to tilt the pads of course to catch you and to match the open angle of your shoulders and your forearms.

Make sense?

E

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Makes perfect sense. At least in the abstract I get the anatomical implication of higher hands by increasing pad reach. On paper I would be very curious as to how 'in control' I would feel on my bike -- I'm not the best bike handler tbh. Probably what you were referring to with your comment me holding the bike and vice versa. Also curious how supported my upper body would feel with pads not directly underneath. Like, "hanging in your skeleton" like now versus requiring constant tension in abdominal muscles to hold position (which is how I felt last time I tried sliding the pads forward). But then again, I can see how that relates to your point of tilting the pads to 'catch' me. Something I would have to try out and *feel*.

Probably the open shoulder angle would give some aero advantage as well, as it may allow me to tuck my head a bit more.

Anyway, my take-out is that size M is the safe bet here. After which I can start playing around with pad reach and tilt. Nice!

Thanks again Eric.

Hi Eric,

Appreciate this service you are providing all of us.

I am 5'5" with a 24" inseam, so a top heavy smurf. Looking at either a P5D or PX frameset.
numbers taken from my guru fit in 18'
Pad Reach 452
Pad stack 554
Pad width (C to C) 250
Saddle height from center of BB 633
Reach from saddle to bars 692
Saddle set back -24
Drop from saddle to Bars 71
Canks are currently 155mm

I believe the 48cm P5D frame is the one for me, but was wondering if a 51cm can or is it just not optimal. Similar question in regards to a PX frame in small or medium. Reason being it seems the larger frame is more accessible currently compared to the smaller ones.

yes, gravity is "directly underneath" you, but the vector of the forces of your upper body are 20 degrees from vertical, directly into your pads.

Yes, when you open your shoulder angle, it begins to streamline your upper body and makes it easier to shrug your shoulders to your ears and turtle your head.

That'll be $275 please...

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Hi, thanks for reaching out.

With a Pad Stack of 554mm and a Pad Reach of 452mm you are a size S in PX series or in the very lower right quadrant of a size 48cm P5d. To get on a 51cm you'd have to come up 5mm or so and be "slammed". Maxing out tilt will then bring you back down slightly.

Make sense?

Eric

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Ha! Awesome thanks.

If I end up buying the bike, will for sure get you a coffee. Or 2.