Assume the position - fit critique

Oct 8, 20 18:44

Post #1 of 28 (2080 views)

Hoping for some fit assistance - thanks for any and all feedback you're willing to provide! I tried to model this post and my video after a couple others in the forum but please let me know if you need more or different info/video for an assessment. Based on those other fit critiques, I realize that feedback is likely to be "net zero" - with 1/3 each being too much XX, just right XX, too little XX - but I'll take all of that and try all (reasonable) options provided!

[Edited to add:
this is a link to my first fit video:
I made changes suggested by Trent and this is the second fit video:
Third fit video after feedback from second video:
/edits]

As background, I'm making some adjustments trying to get dialed in for a couple upcoming races - the GFT 2/3 distance in 2 weeks and the Panama City 70.3 in 4 weeks. I had session with a local fitter a couple years ago and after that have been riding 2-3x per week and finished 2 olympic/international distances, one 70.3, and one century ride. I feel more comfortable in an aero position than when I first started so I'm trying to further optimize (which may well mean that I have optimized since then ways that aren't productive) and also get ready to go longer next season in my first full distance.

In terms of areas I think feel might need attention, I might have pushed the seat too far back (in response to chafing) and if I let my torso drop a little with relaxed shoulders my legs will sometimes contact my stomach when breathing hard (but maybe this is more about my body or breathing and less about the bike?)

The bike is a 2009 Trek TTX 9.5 - I believe the size is what they called "Small" at the time. (I bought it used 2 years ago in a good combo deal w/ a Cervelo P1 from a husband/wife). The Trek has a 172.5mm crank and I added an ISM PN 2.1 seat. I'm 5' 8.5" with a 32.5" inseam if it helps/matters for fit critique.

The video was made under power at about 10% over my FTP, as I didn't really warm up and overshot a bit out of the gate.

I'm hoping for feedback in two phases/kinds: first, that I can implement in the next couple weeks before GFT (without buying new parts) and then second what you'd recommend after the PC race (which might include new hardware). I'm racing GFT as a "B" race this season, mainly as exploratory/prep for my first full distance next season, and the PC race is my "A" race this season - so in my mind I still have 4 weeks to adapt.

Thanks in advance!

Travis

Last edited by: mrfreeze: Oct 16, 20 9:01

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 8, 20 18:56

Post #2 of 28 (2073 views)

I would start with changing the cranks to 155mm and raising the saddle appropriately.

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 8, 20 20:55

Post #3 of 28 (2026 views)

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 8, 20 21:33

Post #4 of 28 (2010 views)

Saddle forward 20-25 mm. Saddle up 5 mm after that. Cockpit needs more reach - about 4 cm after the saddle comes forward.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Last edited by: trentnix: Oct 8, 20 21:34

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [brasch] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 3:07

Post #5 of 28 (1946 views)

brasch wrote:

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

I actually lol’d at this - love it!

I have not yet crashed on the trainer, though I did come close to tipping over once by stepping on and locking one clip in and swinging my other foot over!

I wore the helmet after seeing another fit assistance video, and there was feedback on head position. He had an aero helmet but I decided to do it anyway!

Thanks for the laugh :)

Travis

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 3:26

Post #6 of 28 (1931 views)

Thank you for the feedback Trent! My Profile Design bars have adjustable elbow pads but I’m not sure there’s that much left, so if not would a new bar stem suffice (to avoid buying a whole new aero bar setup) and any suggestions on product?

Thanks again!

Travis

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 5:39

Post #7 of 28 (1883 views)

Can you change the stem?

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 6:01

Post #8 of 28 (1869 views)

Hi Trent! I'm assuming the stem can be changed - I haven't tried but it's only a few bolts and "normal" as far as I can tell to remove. Here's a quick pic of both the stem and the pads - I may have enough room in the pads to move them out. Planning on making the changes you suggested today and riding them tomorrow - thank you!

Last edited by: mrfreeze: Oct 9, 20 6:04

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 6:01

Post #9 of 28 (1867 views)

Get a 120 or 130 mm stem (-6 pitch or -17 pitch - either will do).

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Last edited by: trentnix: Oct 9, 20 6:06

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 6:04

Post #10 of 28 (1860 views)

sorry - didn't go through but should be there now.

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [brasch] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 7:03

Post #11 of 28 (1838 views)

brasch wrote:

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

Fit videos should always be done with race kit... helmet especially.

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 7:27

Post #12 of 28 (1821 views)

mrfreeze wrote:

brasch wrote:

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

I actually lol’d at this - love it!

I have not yet crashed on the trainer, though I did come close to tipping over once by stepping on and locking one clip in and swinging my other foot over!

I wore the helmet after seeing another fit assistance video, and there was feedback on head position. He had an aero helmet but I decided to do it anyway!

Thanks for the laugh :)

Travis

No problem, was just trying to be funny

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [brasch] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 7:30

Post #13 of 28 (1816 views)

brasch wrote:

mrfreeze wrote:

brasch wrote:

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

I actually lol’d at this - love it!

I have not yet crashed on the trainer, though I did come close to tipping over once by stepping on and locking one clip in and swinging my other foot over!

I wore the helmet after seeing another fit assistance video, and there was feedback on head position. He had an aero helmet but I decided to do it anyway!

Thanks for the laugh :)

Travis

No problem, was just trying to be funny

I dug it, Brasch, keep 'em coming! I'm fairly new to the forum though do appreciate that folks seem to have a good sense of humor!

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 7:37

Post #14 of 28 (1810 views)

rruff wrote:

brasch wrote:

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

Fit videos should always be done with race kit... helmet especially.

Why especially the helmet? - I would Think wearing bibs/racesuit and shoes compared to sweat pants and sneakers would be more important than the helmet. I usually don’t change my fit, so that my gear works better, I change gear to match my fit.
Aside from that, it looks like a generic Road helmet, if it was a long tail TT you might have a point. But still, aside from the tail pointing straight into the air, you’d need a windtunnel to determine wether or not the position it’s in this or that position. Helmet should be chosen AFTER the fit is done and maybe for some incremental crompromises that might make you faster. For a general “what Can I do to improve my position”-thread the helmet doesn’t matter that much.
When that’s all said, I Can only recommend the “bike fit fast”-app to get a good Ball-park fit. And try the extemes of the angles and the middle and see what “feels right” and then go test for yourself

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 7:40

Post #15 of 28 (1803 views)

mrfreeze wrote:

brasch wrote:

mrfreeze wrote:

brasch wrote:

I don’t really have any input for the fit, But are you afraid of crashing, since you’re wearing a helmet on the trainer?

I actually lol’d at this - love it!

I have not yet crashed on the trainer, though I did come close to tipping over once by stepping on and locking one clip in and swinging my other foot over!

I wore the helmet after seeing another fit assistance video, and there was feedback on head position. He had an aero helmet but I decided to do it anyway!

Thanks for the laugh :)

Travis

No problem, was just trying to be funny

I dug it, Brasch, keep 'em coming! I'm fairly new to the forum though do appreciate that folks seem to have a good sense of humor!

Well, did have a trainer crash once myself, apparently my right foot wasn’t clipped out. The wife heard the noice, came into the pain cave while I was laying on the floor with the bike on top of me and asked “How did you manage to do that, isn’t it locked in?”

Last edited by: brasch: Oct 9, 20 7:41

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 7:58

Post #16 of 28 (1787 views)

If you're able to look at that TV easily while on the bike, the fit is off. Assuming no physical limitations, the front end should be lower and you should try to get more parallel to the top tube.

Team Zoot 2023

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [aerobean] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 8:10

Post #17 of 28 (1783 views)

aerobean wrote:

the front end should be lower.

I'd withhold judgment on pad height until he gets further forward like Trent suggested. The OP looks scrunched up and needs an inch (if not 2) more reach.

100% agree on the TV height!

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 17:49

Post #18 of 28 (1685 views)

Thank you Trent and all! After my ride this morning I made these suggested changes tonight (seat up by 5mm, forward by 20mm, pushed pads forward by 31mm (as far as they'd go), extended bars by 31mm. All torqued to spec and ready to ride tomorrow so should have a good basis for comparison of feel!

Also started looking at bar stems and looks like I should be able to find something comparable to what's on the bike for ~$50 or so - so have that in the backlog to decide on after tomorrow.

aerobean: sorry to confuse with the TV - I had hoped that wouldn't be in the frame but it made it to the video. I do ride Zwift but don't often look at the TV where we have it mounted - I more often find myself looking at the wall (like I was doing during the fit video) or looking down and trying to focus on technique. Unfortunately the TV was mounted before we got the trainer and it was intended mainly for use by my wife who trains with live and recorded coaches mostly while standing. I may end up moving the mount down but just had other house stuff at the top of the stack (and 90% of my rides are outdoors). I have no physical limitations so the feedback on getting my back more in line with the top tube is a helpful image to aim for!

Thanks again all!

Travis

Last edited by: mrfreeze: Oct 9, 20 17:50

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 9, 20 18:36

Post #19 of 28 (1664 views)

mrfreeze wrote:

Thank you Trent and all! After my ride this morning I made these suggested changes tonight (seat up by 5mm, forward by 20mm, pushed pads forward by 31mm (as far as they'd go), extended bars by 31mm. All torqued to spec and ready to ride tomorrow so should have a good basis for comparison of feel!

Also started looking at bar stems and looks like I should be able to find something comparable to what's on the bike for ~$50 or so - so have that in the backlog to decide on after tomorrow.

aerobean: sorry to confuse with the TV - I had hoped that wouldn't be in the frame but it made it to the video. I do ride Zwift but don't often look at the TV where we have it mounted - I more often find myself looking at the wall (like I was doing during the fit video) or looking down and trying to focus on technique. Unfortunately the TV was mounted before we got the trainer and it was intended mainly for use by my wife who trains with live and recorded coaches mostly while standing. I may end up moving the mount down but just had other house stuff at the top of the stack (and 90% of my rides are outdoors). I have no physical limitations so the feedback on getting my back more in line with the top tube is a helpful image to aim for!

Thanks again all!

Travis

Get us some video before you ride, if you can. It's nice to see if things look better before you hit the road.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 10, 20 17:08

Post #20 of 28 (1559 views)

trentnix wrote:

Get us some video before you ride, if you can. It's nice to see if things look better before you hit the road.

Hey Trent - sorry I couldn't get the video before riding, my bike was packed and the video crew (wife and kids) were unavailable :)

Here's a link to the video post-ride, though

The changes felt good - got right at 3 hours pedal time this morning. Didn't feel as cramped, it was nice stretching out. Almost feels like I could extend the bars a little more and choke up/out on them, placing my elbows closer to the front end of the pads to snag another 1/2" or so. The only thing that wasn't as comfortable as I'd have liked was my contact-point on the saddle (but 3 hours is a bit longer than I'm typically used to anyway).

Thoughts on any further changes from here? My back still isn't quite getting parallel with the top tube so maybe that stem change with a negative/down rise?

Travis

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 10, 20 17:12

Post #21 of 28 (1551 views)

Saddle is a bit high now and I want to stretch you out a bit more. Drop the saddle about 10 mm, pull it back about 10 mm, and drop the cockpit 20 mm.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 10, 20 17:16

Post #22 of 28 (1546 views)

Awesome - thank you Trent!! Will implement the saddle changes tomorrow and test again.

On lowering the cockpit, apologies for the maybe stupid question but is this only achievable with the drop stem? As far as I can tell there's no vertical adjustability to these Profile Design Subsonic Race bars.

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [mrfreeze] [ In reply to ]

Oct 10, 20 17:37

Post #23 of 28 (1533 views)

You should be able to move below a couple of those spacers on the steerer tube.

Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 10, 20 17:39

Post #24 of 28 (1532 views)

trentnix wrote:

You should be able to move below a couple of those spacers on the steerer tube.

How could I have missed that!? Thank you :)

Re: Assume the position - fit critique [trentnix] [ In reply to ]

Oct 16, 20 8:38

Post #25 of 28 (1407 views)

trentnix wrote:

Saddle is a bit high now and I want to stretch you out a bit more. Drop the saddle about 10 mm, pull it back about 10 mm, and drop the cockpit 20 mm.

Changes complete! Here's a new video, including an additional change of extending the aero bars another 3/4" (not the elbow pads) to be able to stretch out a little further. Got about 3 hours in this position across 2 rides.

Ideas and further feedback for enhancements are welcome!

Last edited by: mrfreeze: Oct 16, 20 8:39

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