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New Cannondale SystemSix
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https://www.bikeradar.com/...ale-systemsix-52536/
http://road.cc/...ds-fastest-road-bike
Whitepaper: https://www.cannondale.com/~/media/Files/PDF/Dorel/Cannondale/Global/SystemSix_Whitepaper.pdf










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Last edited by: BryanD: Jul 2, 18 9:56
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Let them enjoy their few days of "glory" until Trek Madone Disc (launch on 6th of July), new Venge Disc (soon), new BMC Road Timemachine Disc (soon) and Cervelo S5 Disc (not so sure about this one anymore though) all claim to be the new fastest ones :)


----------------------
Need more watts.
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Looks really, REALLY, good.
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Great looking bike. I found this excerpt rather enlightening:

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When descending, the differences become quite marked. To stay in touch with a rider riding a 5 percent downhill gradient at 200w and 60.6kph on the SystemSix, you’d need to be putting out 309w on the Evo. But when you’re talking terminal velocity (descending with no pedal input, so just rolling downhill), the SystemSix will hit 53.1kph while the Evo will hit 49.9kph, so that’s 3.2kph faster for no effort…
Last edited by: GreenPlease: Jul 2, 18 6:32
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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That bike has Damon's pawprints all over it. Stunning piece of work. The only thing that bothers me is the bottom end of the Cannondale wordmark being covered up by the crank.

----------------------------------
Blog and Product Reviews | Twitter
"It ain't easy being green..."
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if that is the newer disc version of the Scott Foil that was tested? Nice looking frame overall and a. Umber of things look really well thought out, but the color schemes are not very exciting. Black/grey is getting a little worn as every manufacturer is using it and not a huge fan of the shades of green either.

Matt
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Watching the GCN video about it and the put the Rubino tires on there over the Corsa Speed becuase CDale said they had a lower rolling resistance.

Has anyone seen this else where?
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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hmm reminds me of the Diamond back vitasse podium
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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This was interesting from a claim perspective:

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Cannondale claims that KNØT64 wheels are faster aerodynamically overall with either 23C or 25C tires on them than comparable-depth wheels with either tire size from Mavic, Zipp, ENVE, Hed, and Shimano, but are slightly slower than Roval 64 DBs with 23C tires.
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Nazgul350r] [ In reply to ]
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Nazgul350r wrote:
Watching the GCN video about it and the put the Rubino tires on there over the Corsa Speed becuase CDale said they had a lower rolling resistance.

Has anyone seen this else where?

He said "Corsa", not "Corsa Speed"...I would believe the former being slower than a Rubino Pro, not the latter.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
That bike has Damon's pawprints all over it. Stunning piece of work. The only thing that bothers me is the bottom end of the Cannondale wordmark being covered up by the crank.

Except it won't be covered up on the "regular people" bikes due to so many people running 50/34 these days ;) But yeah, that's a bit weird that they screwed that up.......

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Coached By: Scott DeFilippis
Team RWB Ambassador | Deals & Discounts from Sponsors
Supported by: Clever Training| Kiwami Tri | Precision Hydration | | blueseventy | ISM | Canyon| Ceramic Speed
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Pun_Times wrote:
Nice looking frame overall and a. Umber of things look really well thought out, but the color schemes are not very exciting. Black/grey is getting a little worn as every manufacturer is using it and not a huge fan of the shades of green either.

Personally I love the obnoxious Volt yellow and the styling of all the models... They'll never please everybody!
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Just a question..

but do you think that a TT model, maybe Ironman friendly with aero drink, storage etc...will be realized ? i have a 2013 slice but now i really prefer bikes with 'ironman looking' such as canyon or scott or trek
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Fab4mas] [ In reply to ]
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I have zero insight beyond speculation, but I think the first thing happening would be the official unveil of the SuperSlice - which probably will not be focused heavily on the tri marketplace.

----------------------------------
Blog and Product Reviews | Twitter
"It ain't easy being green..."
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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You'll have to pry 50/34 from my cold, dead legs.

And, well, I think it's still going to get covered up.

----------------------------------
Blog and Product Reviews | Twitter
"It ain't easy being green..."
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
I have zero insight beyond speculation, but I think the first thing happening would be the official unveil of the SuperSlice - which probably will not be focused heavily on the tri marketplace.

I am in the market for a new road bike and Tri-bike. My road (Cannondale Evo Frame w/ 15 yo DA components) and my Tri (Slice RS) are ready for retirement.

The question is whether this SystemSix will be able to cover both. But if it were... I'd throw clip-ons on this new System Six for my few Tri Races.

BUT, with so much SI going on, I doubt this SI custom handlebar and stem would be clip on friendly.

________________________________________________
Proud member of FISHTWITCH: beating you to T1 for over a decade, and working on beating you to T2...
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:




Appears to be bike only data..."rider-on" data please. Also, we need to see how each bike was set up equipment-wise. Same as always...

edit: Found the white paper here: https://www.cannondale.com/...emSix_Whitepaper.pdf

Apparently, that drag plot is values normalized to a SuperSix with the same KNOT64 wheels. In other words, it's a difference plot, not absolute values.

There's bike build detail list (no pics though) in an appendix. Some interesting wheel depth (e.g. Aeolus 5 on the Madone) and tire width selections in there IMHO...

BryanD wrote:



Hmmm...a yaw-weighted look at an overall value. Interesting...Now, if only someone would combine that with rolling resistance values to determine an overall system value ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jul 2, 18 8:50
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Thorax] [ In reply to ]
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Thorax wrote:
Looks really, REALLY, good.

My aesthetic sense can't get over the "overbite" of the fork crown though...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Now that the cat is officially out of the bag, does this mean we can start peppering Damon with questions?
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Now that the cat is officially out of the bag, does this mean we can start peppering Damon with questions?
We need the SuperSlice info!!! Is it going to be the exact same frame? (With a little Tri-biased geometry.)

________________________________________________
Proud member of FISHTWITCH: beating you to T1 for over a decade, and working on beating you to T2...
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
You'll have to pry 50/34 from my cold, dead legs.

And, well, I think it's still going to get covered up.

That is until you try a 52/36 with an 11-30t...........
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [elf6c] [ In reply to ]
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elf6c wrote:
This was interesting from a claim perspective:

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Cannondale claims that KNØT64 wheels are faster aerodynamically overall with either 23C or 25C tires on them than comparable-depth wheels with either tire size from Mavic, Zipp, ENVE, Hed, and Shimano, but are slightly slower than Roval 64 DBs with 23C tires.

I found that interesting as well. IMO, it always gives a little bit of credence to data when a manufacturer says "we're actually a bit slower than Brand X with Y tire." I find it very curious that both Cannondale and Specialized arrived at very similar solutions with regards to optimum rim depth, rim width, and tire width.
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:




Appears to be bike only data..."rider-on" data please. Also, we need to see how each bike was set up equipment-wise. Same as always...

edit: Found the white paper here: https://www.cannondale.com/...emSix_Whitepaper.pdf

Apparently, that drag plot is values normalized to a SuperSix with the same KNOT64 wheels. In other words, it's a difference plot, not absolute values.


DGR: It's just typical LSWT output. The "normalized" comment reflects that the output is normalized to a standard day: 30.0 mph, etc. as usual.

Quote:

There's bike build detail list (no pics though) in an appendix. Some interesting wheel depth (e.g. Aeolus 5 on the Madone) and tire width selections in there IMHO...


DGR: All as delivered. I agree, a product manager who knew and cared about performance could have made some different spec choices.

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Hmmm...a yaw-weighted look at an overall value. Interesting...Now, if only someone would combine that with rolling resistance values to determine an overall system value ;-)


DGR: Hm, do we know someone who might have already done that?
Actually, we included Crr, etc. in the calculations and system performance is reflected in the scenarios in the white paper (climbing, descending, sprinting, etc.)

Nice to have your comments Tom.

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Last edited by: damon_rinard: Jul 2, 18 9:50
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Now that the cat is officially out of the bag, does this mean we can start peppering Damon with questions?

Assuming this is a "yes," at least after things calm down for him after the release, I'll start...

Disclosure: Our team is sponsored by Cannondale, and last year added Trek so we are now dual-sponsored. I'm currently on an EVO Hi-Mod and ready to make the move to disc brake road. I'll definitely be getting a CAAD12 Disc as my back-up/trainer bike, but for the main road bike it's going to be between the new SystemSix and the new Madone disc. So either Cannondale/Cannondale or Trek/Cannondale.

System Design: I think we see in this bike what Damon was referring to when he said that even with the aero penalty of a disc rotor and caliper, bikes can be made faster when freed from the confines of a rim brake. While I am sure Damon could rattle off a laundry list of areas on the bike where this is true, the area I see it the most is in the rim design. It looks like Cannondale (Knot) has gone all-in on Hed's patented rim design, which requires a curved rim surface where the brake track would normally be.

Reflective Logos: The first pre-dawn ride I did riding behind a buddy wearing the silver reflective Empires, I knew I had to have a pair. If you're like me and sometime on the road at 4am to get your training in before work, you owe it to yourself to get some reflective kit to go with your rear light. One of the first things I do with wheel stickers, whether they be Zipp, Enve or Bontrager Aeolus TLRs, is peel them right off because they do no nothing positive for the ride. But if the Knot stickers are reflective, I will have to reconsider that practice. At least until I scratch one or it starts to peel.

Computer/Accessory Mount: This one worries me a little. It looks like it's plastic and affixed with a single bolt. Is it a combo mount, i.e. can you mount a GoPro or light underneath? While I wouldn't race with it, I love my Fly12CE for training and it seems unlikely this mount could handle it. Without any info or seeing it in person, it does seem like a 2-bolt mount, perhaps with something like an alloy or heavy-duty option, would be nice there.

Weight: It looks like Cannondale is already getting out in front of this one, with the calculations conceding mere seconds up a climb like Alpe d'Huez but noting that the bike is faster in all other scenarios. While all true, the Cannondale brand has long attracted the weight-weenie crowd, with bikes like the EVO Hi-Mod able to offer us amazing stiffness and handling all while being crazy light. I'd be curious to see the weight difference between a comparably equipped SuperSix and EVO. 1kg? More? It also seems like it might be tough to lighten up the SystemSix, as the seatpost, stem and bars are all proprietary parts of the "system." Overall, we get it, aero>weight in almost all use cases, but I think you've still got that instinct/emotional hurdle to overcome with the "heft test."

Handling: Damon, are you allowed to share the front-end stiffness of the bike, and perhaps more specifically, where frame will score on the Tour magazine NM/degree test? Is that something you test in-house or would we need to wait for the Tour test?
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Re: New Cannondale SystemSix [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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damon_rinard wrote:
DGR: It's just typical LSWT output. The "normalized" comment reflects that the output is normalized to a standard day: 30.0 mph, etc. as usual.


Thanks Damon...but, now I'm confused by this statement in the text:

"For comparison, Figure 7 also includes a classic road bike, modeled here by our SuperSix EVO with the same matched wheelset."

I don't see the SuperSix EVO line in Fig. 7.



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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