Nice to see your comments Robert!
Disclosure: Our team is sponsored by Cannondale, and last year added Trek so we are now dual-sponsored. I'm currently on an EVO Hi-Mod and ready to make the move to disc brake road. I'll definitely be getting a CAAD12 Disc as my back-up/trainer bike, but for the main road bike it's going to be between the new SystemSix and the new Madone disc. So either Cannondale/Cannondale or Trek/Cannondale.
Tough decision. Have you seen the white paper? We tested the Madone, but in rim brake form. Other than the Cannondale, it was the lowest drag road bike in our test. Tom, do you think the disc version will have different drag?
System Design: I think we see in this bike what Damon was referring to when he said that even with the aero penalty of a disc rotor and caliper, bikes can be made faster when freed from the confines of a rim brake. While I am sure Damon could rattle off a laundry list of areas on the bike where this is true, the area I see it the most is in the rim design. It looks like Cannondale (Knot) has gone all-in on Hed's patented rim design, which requires a curved rim surface where the brake track would normally be.
Exactly And not only curved, but 32mm wide. Very few (none?) high-end rim brakes available today can fit rims that wide.
Reflective Logos: The first pre-dawn ride I did riding behind a buddy wearing the silver reflective Empires, I knew I had to have a pair. If you're like me and sometime on the road at 4am to get your training in before work, you owe it to yourself to get some reflective kit to go with your rear light. One of the first things I do with wheel stickers, whether they be Zipp, Enve or Bontrager Aeolus TLRs, is peel them right off because they do no nothing positive for the ride. But if the Knot stickers are reflective, I will have to reconsider that practice. At least until I scratch one or it starts to peel.
The frame has reflective elements, but not the wheels. I think the logos are under clear coat though, sorry.
Computer/Accessory Mount: This one worries me a little. It looks like it's plastic and affixed with a single bolt. Is it a combo mount, i.e. can you mount a GoPro or light underneath? While I wouldn't race with it, I love my Fly12CE for training and it seems unlikely this mount could handle it. Without any info or seeing it in person, it does seem like a 2-bolt mount, perhaps with something like an alloy or heavy-duty option, would be nice there.
Don't worry, it's aluminum, not plastic. Yes, it's one bolt, but it keys into the two handlebar mounting bolts.
Weight: It looks like Cannondale is already getting out in front of this one, with the calculations conceding mere seconds up a climb like Alpe d'Huez but noting that the bike is faster in all other scenarios. While all true, the Cannondale brand has long attracted the weight-weenie crowd, with bikes like the EVO Hi-Mod able to offer us amazing stiffness and handling all while being crazy light. I'd be curious to see the weight difference between a comparably equipped SuperSix and EVO. 1kg? More? It also seems like it might be tough to lighten up the SystemSix, as the seatpost, stem and bars are all proprietary parts of the "system." Overall, we get it, aero>weight in almost all use cases, but I think you've still got that instinct/emotional hurdle to overcome with the "heft test."
Yeah, this will be the toughest nut to crack with riders who aren't ready to believe the data. For what it's worth, the SystemSix accepts standard stem & bars so you have a choice there.
Handling: Damon, are you allowed to share the front-end stiffness of the bike, and perhaps more specifically, where frame will score on the Tour magazine NM/degree test? Is that something you test in-house or would we need to wait for the Tour test?
Tested at Zedler per Tour Magazin's protocol:
Head tube 105 N*m/degree,
Bottom bracket 73 N/mm.
Just stiffer than the sweet spot. Should be a lot more stable than your last aero road bike. :-)
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
refthimos wrote:
I'll start... Disclosure: Our team is sponsored by Cannondale, and last year added Trek so we are now dual-sponsored. I'm currently on an EVO Hi-Mod and ready to make the move to disc brake road. I'll definitely be getting a CAAD12 Disc as my back-up/trainer bike, but for the main road bike it's going to be between the new SystemSix and the new Madone disc. So either Cannondale/Cannondale or Trek/Cannondale.
Tough decision. Have you seen the white paper? We tested the Madone, but in rim brake form. Other than the Cannondale, it was the lowest drag road bike in our test. Tom, do you think the disc version will have different drag?
Quote:
System Design: I think we see in this bike what Damon was referring to when he said that even with the aero penalty of a disc rotor and caliper, bikes can be made faster when freed from the confines of a rim brake. While I am sure Damon could rattle off a laundry list of areas on the bike where this is true, the area I see it the most is in the rim design. It looks like Cannondale (Knot) has gone all-in on Hed's patented rim design, which requires a curved rim surface where the brake track would normally be.
Exactly And not only curved, but 32mm wide. Very few (none?) high-end rim brakes available today can fit rims that wide.
Quote:
Reflective Logos: The first pre-dawn ride I did riding behind a buddy wearing the silver reflective Empires, I knew I had to have a pair. If you're like me and sometime on the road at 4am to get your training in before work, you owe it to yourself to get some reflective kit to go with your rear light. One of the first things I do with wheel stickers, whether they be Zipp, Enve or Bontrager Aeolus TLRs, is peel them right off because they do no nothing positive for the ride. But if the Knot stickers are reflective, I will have to reconsider that practice. At least until I scratch one or it starts to peel.
The frame has reflective elements, but not the wheels. I think the logos are under clear coat though, sorry.
Quote:
Computer/Accessory Mount: This one worries me a little. It looks like it's plastic and affixed with a single bolt. Is it a combo mount, i.e. can you mount a GoPro or light underneath? While I wouldn't race with it, I love my Fly12CE for training and it seems unlikely this mount could handle it. Without any info or seeing it in person, it does seem like a 2-bolt mount, perhaps with something like an alloy or heavy-duty option, would be nice there.
Don't worry, it's aluminum, not plastic. Yes, it's one bolt, but it keys into the two handlebar mounting bolts.
Quote:
Weight: It looks like Cannondale is already getting out in front of this one, with the calculations conceding mere seconds up a climb like Alpe d'Huez but noting that the bike is faster in all other scenarios. While all true, the Cannondale brand has long attracted the weight-weenie crowd, with bikes like the EVO Hi-Mod able to offer us amazing stiffness and handling all while being crazy light. I'd be curious to see the weight difference between a comparably equipped SuperSix and EVO. 1kg? More? It also seems like it might be tough to lighten up the SystemSix, as the seatpost, stem and bars are all proprietary parts of the "system." Overall, we get it, aero>weight in almost all use cases, but I think you've still got that instinct/emotional hurdle to overcome with the "heft test."
Yeah, this will be the toughest nut to crack with riders who aren't ready to believe the data. For what it's worth, the SystemSix accepts standard stem & bars so you have a choice there.
Quote:
Handling: Damon, are you allowed to share the front-end stiffness of the bike, and perhaps more specifically, where frame will score on the Tour magazine NM/degree test? Is that something you test in-house or would we need to wait for the Tour test?
Tested at Zedler per Tour Magazin's protocol:
Head tube 105 N*m/degree,
Bottom bracket 73 N/mm.
Just stiffer than the sweet spot. Should be a lot more stable than your last aero road bike. :-)
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Last edited by:
damon_rinard: Jul 2, 18 10:10