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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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Locutus, did you use the Ultegra Di2 system checker at all when you did this? If not, it's probably something you would like a bit. Lets you change around function of the buttons, reprogram shift points, etc...
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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Meet the man behind the DIY Shimano Di-2 Ultegra TT shifters. Our random age grouper of the week.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ave_Toshio_2563.html

H
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Hey,

is it possible to use the DA shifter and levers and connect them with the Ultegra System?
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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Ultegra and Dura Ace electronic are not compatible
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Ultegra and Dura Ace electronic are not compatible

Even the shifters?
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Bogusdogs] [ In reply to ]
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Why do you think someone did this DIY Ultegra project for the TT shifters? Yes the shifters don't work.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Why is it impossible to connect the shifter with the Ultegra cable in some way??? There must be a way to bridge this issue.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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I think it's more about cost saving? If you wanted to use the DA shifters, you would need to buy both the DA Di2 TT shifters and brake levers/shifters AND the Ultegra Di2 brake levers/shifters, then extract the black boxes from the Ultegra units to use in conjunction with the DA Di2 shifters. As I understand it, this would work because I think the DA Di2 shifters are just a plain switch like you need to interface to the Ultegra Di2 black boxes? But it would be extremely expensive compared to the DIY approach in the OP, and you may as well just buy the full DA Di2 groupset if you were going to do that.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Why do you think someone did this DIY Ultegra project for the TT shifters? Yes the shifters don't work.

I figured it was the same reason you never saw "Ultegra" bar end shifters on the mechanical 10 speed. There really isn't much to them.


I don't know why people do a lot of things on this forum. Simple question really.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for this.

I've been doing a bit more digging around and looking at prices and so on. My thinking so far:

1. If I do it, there's obviously a risk of breaking something expensive. I guess that is partly mitigated by there being some sort of chance that some shimano TT shifters will come out some time and so if I only break the shifter controllers its not too bad. The cateye remote buttons aren't available in the UK from what I can see but I know what you mean now so I could create my own.

2. I like the sequential shifting mountain bike that has already been developed. That's got to be the way to go. There seems to be two ways of doing that. The inline way and the canbus way.

3. Starting with the inline way, at the simplest, I just need to come up with a decision tree to move the front and/or rear derailleur depending on what gear I am in and whether it is an "up" or "down" command. However, I am not that good at doing that with simple components (I'm bound to get it wrong n+1 times) and so I was looking at an Arduino. This is a cheap open source prototyping platform. It is easily programmable and has built in input/output ports. I need to do some more reading but it seems like it should be relatively straightforward to get it to read two inputs and change four outputs. It's also got the handy feature of working on the same voltage as the shimano battery. There's also quite a bit of open source code for it to give me clues how to programme it (e.g. debouncing buttons). I would guess one of the problem will be waterproofing it and making it reliable. It will always be a risk doing an ironman with it...

4. The thing about the Arduino is that it also looks like it can be used to sniff out canbus signals. Quite a few people have done work on that in the context of cars and there is an open source project out there to make it easier. So, version 2 would be to try to get the Arduino to decode the shifters and then pretend to be them. Not sure whether that is possible yet though but from what I have read it would seem like it is possible. The Arduino forums are a great source of info for this sort of thing.

5. Out of interest, it seems you can link an Arduino to an ANT/ANT+ module. This, linked to your powermeter and cadence, could get you a fully automatic gearbox. I am sure it would be a completely useless but it couyld be fun trying...
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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DA Di2 was first generation in some ways, and Ultegra offered a chance to rethink some of this. The main difference is they went to
a 2 wire wiring harness with Ultegra Di2 vs the 4 wire harness in DA. Everyone assumes at some time there will be a new rev of DA designed around the
2 wire harness...that is not yet announced but rumored around late 2012.


Until the two systems utilize the same wiring harness, they won't be comparable, hence the need for the 'hacks' like the Ultegra TT shifters.


.

" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Sprint_DA] [ In reply to ]
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I did not use the system checker but after looking into its capabilities, it does sound interesting. Looks to be fairly cheap and can check all the components at the same time. Thanks!
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Dead Keen] [ In reply to ]
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Dead Keen wrote:
Thanks for this.

I've been doing a bit more digging around and looking at prices and so on. My thinking so far:

1. If I do it, there's obviously a risk of breaking something expensive. I guess that is partly mitigated by there being some sort of chance that some shimano TT shifters will come out some time and so if I only break the shifter controllers its not too bad. The cateye remote buttons aren't available in the UK from what I can see but I know what you mean now so I could create my own.

2. I like the sequential shifting mountain bike that has already been developed. That's got to be the way to go. There seems to be two ways of doing that. The inline way and the canbus way.

3. Starting with the inline way, at the simplest, I just need to come up with a decision tree to move the front and/or rear derailleur depending on what gear I am in and whether it is an "up" or "down" command. However, I am not that good at doing that with simple components (I'm bound to get it wrong n+1 times) and so I was looking at an Arduino. This is a cheap open source prototyping platform. It is easily programmable and has built in input/output ports. I need to do some more reading but it seems like it should be relatively straightforward to get it to read two inputs and change four outputs. It's also got the handy feature of working on the same voltage as the shimano battery. There's also quite a bit of open source code for it to give me clues how to programme it (e.g. debouncing buttons). I would guess one of the problem will be waterproofing it and making it reliable. It will always be a risk doing an ironman with it...

4. The thing about the Arduino is that it also looks like it can be used to sniff out canbus signals. Quite a few people have done work on that in the context of cars and there is an open source project out there to make it easier. So, version 2 would be to try to get the Arduino to decode the shifters and then pretend to be them. Not sure whether that is possible yet though but from what I have read it would seem like it is possible. The Arduino forums are a great source of info for this sort of thing.

5. Out of interest, it seems you can link an Arduino to an ANT/ANT+ module. This, linked to your powermeter and cadence, could get you a fully automatic gearbox. I am sure it would be a completely useless but it couyld be fun trying...

Dont worry about breaking anything as long as you take your time. The modules will pop right out after you remove the torx screws.

I did look into the automotive canbus systems which do seem to have signal cloning capabilities. The down side is that they are 3 wire shielded systems. From some of the diagrams, the third looks to be a ground but Im not too sure yet. I did order a canbus signal analyzer and software that can interpret the signals as an input. The easy part will be getting the signal...the tough part will be finding a way to clone it. Either way, the first step seems to be interpreting the signal which will be done soon hopefully.

As you can see, all sorts of fun can be had with di2. What type of switches did you end up going with?
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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locutus wrote:
I did look into the automotive canbus systems which do seem to have signal cloning capabilities. The down side is that they are 3 wire shielded systems. From some of the diagrams, the third looks to be a ground but Im not too sure yet. I did order a canbus signal analyzer and software that can interpret the signals as an input. The easy part will be getting the signal...the tough part will be finding a way to clone it. Either way, the first step seems to be interpreting the signal which will be done soon hopefully.
I know some stuff about CAN which might help. The auto industry uses differential (2-wires) CAN-bus because they have all kinds of electronics and have to be robust against noise. Since there are almost no electronics (compared to a car) on a bike I would think that the 3 wires are just Ground, Vcc & CAN-signal. After all the ECU in the STIs also need power so I would expect them to get the Vcc & Ground from the battery. Then the Signal is just single wired which should be plenty. Especially since there is no need for a high data rate. That's all just my guesses but I'd be very curious what's the setup. (my guess is 125 Kbit)

To generate the signals all you need is a uC with a CAN controller. They're super cheap and nowadays there are tons of uC that have one already integrated. I think the Arduino doesn't have any but for such an easy setup with just 1-2 messages you can hook up a controller over SPI or whatnot. I think there are also some projects that already have realized Arduino+CAN.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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What if I only use the housing of the DA TT Shifter and put the cables of the STI`s in, connectin the cable with the buttons? Will this work?
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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Hello, the DA di2 barend shifters are just momentary switches so those could be used with the module from the ultegra shifters. You will need to use the housing and switches, not just the housing though.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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So I will need the cables from the Ultegra STI`s too? For the shifter and the levers? I have to buy two pairs of U STI`s?
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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You will need the Ultegra STIs (one set) and the cable that connects the two (called handlebar harness) as well as some type of momentary switch for shifiting. You can use the DA di2 shifters as the momentary switches but you will still need the parts from the Ultegra STIs. Sorry, its a little confusing at first.

For shifting on the base bar, you can use any type of momentary switch also, even the DA brake/shifters...just wire them to the module the same way as the bar end shifters.
Last edited by: locutus: Feb 8, 12 0:49
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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So to make it clear, I need:

Electronic Kit Ultegra
DA Di2 TT Shifter
DA Di2 TT Levers
Handlebar harness

is that right?
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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The question is whether all that ends up any cheaper than just buying the DA Di2 mechs and cables instead of the Ultegra.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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Electronic Kit Ultegra (FD, RD, Shifters, junction boxes, battery, battery mount, harnesses).
DA Di2 TT Shifter (or the much much cheaper cateye buttons)

DA Di2 TT Levers (or any momentary buttons, most of which can be much cheaper.)
Handlebar harness


Soldering skills and a bit of nerve.

Styrrell
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Steve Irwin] [ In reply to ]
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Steve Irwin wrote:
The question is whether all that ends up any cheaper than just buying the DA Di2 mechs and cables instead of the Ultegra.

It should. My project cost me about $1000 all together including switches and a LiPo battery. Even if one where to use the DA shifters and brake levers, it will still be cheaper....just not as cheap.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Cesc] [ In reply to ]
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Styrrell has it correct. Though the only harness you really need is the handle bar harness since it has the adjustment button and battery level monitor. You can make the rest of the harness and the junction box and save about $100 if you are comfortable with your soldering skills. Like he said, any momentary button (push, tactile, lever, toggle...whatever) can be used to trigger the shifting. But if you dont mind the cost of the DA shifters and levers, you can wire those in in place of the momentaries. Let me know if youd like to see a wiring diagram of how I ended up doing things. If theres interest, I can post it/send it.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [locutus] [ In reply to ]
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A wiring diagram would be great. I don`t know the buttons you`ve mentioned because I`m from Germany, maybe it is possible to send me any links of those buttons.

Thank you in advance.
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Re: DIY Ultegra Di2 TT [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like somebody needs to take this to market. If Shimano makes no 2 wire TT shifter the market could be huge.
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