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Re: Testosterone Pellets [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
Nope. I said I agree with self reporting. I agree with having no results.
I trained to try to make a cutoff. I will not take anything for performance.
If for health I am advised to take something, nope, I am not dropping out I'd I cannot get a TUE in time.

If that’s the case, and you want to complete the event, do the event and self report to give yourself a DNF. That’s fine, it’s not cheating. If you let the result stand, it’s cheating.

Think of it like declaring your score in golf.

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Re: Testosterone Pellets [LewisElliot] [ In reply to ]
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LewisElliot wrote:
A couple people interrupted me and said they don't mean T or HGH as that's not really doping, that's just what people need to be normal. As it turns out, I had painted myself into a corner when 9 of let's say 12 at the table admitted to using T as part of their "health program" on a regular basis. Pellets, cream, pills, whatever. Were the other 3 just not admitting they too were doing it? I didn't know what to say, many of them people I knew pretty well. I'd say 8 or more had pinned on a number in the last year. It was pretty depressing.

The only other story I have is that over the last 5 years I've seen maybe one person per year make significant physical and ability changes within my circle in the local triathlon world. If it's a friend, I congratulate them on their progress, I then almost always ask about their changes to become leaner/faster. In all five instances it was followed with a,"Well, as a matter of fact, I went and got tested and it turns out this whole time I've had Low-T!!!" Again, super depressing, I've kind of accepted it as the norm. -L

It's like the 90s in pro cycling. Everyone is juiced... because everyone else is doing it....

When guys in their 60s who have been racing for decades, are stronger than they've ever been... ya, that ain't right.
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Re: Testosterone Pellets [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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chrisb12 wrote:
Don't f... with nature.

But it must be healthy if it makes you feel better, right?...;)

I wonder if psychiatrists can prescribe T for mental health...
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Re: Testosterone Pellets [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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When guys in their 60s who have been racing for decades, are stronger than they've ever been... ya, that ain't right. ///

I have been noticing this for the past 20 years. I have been swimming in masters nationals off and on since I was 30. Now I'm in the 60+ and it is harder than it ever was in the younger age groups to hit top 10. Just for kicks, here are a couple events I swim, and the 10th place time it took to podium(score) in the 400IM and 200 breastroke. Pretty sure all the other events would have similar characteristcs. Some years there weren't even enough 60 year olds to fill out events.

So for sure there are many circumstances affecting these times, pools, suits, other technology that is outside of the human that got faster, but not sure it can account for all of these gains by the old dudes...

400IM. 200 Breastroke. 10th place times at spring nationals
2019-- 5;16. 2;42
2018--5;29. 2;41
2017--5;47. 2;49
2016--6;07. 3;03
2001--6;41. 3;15(8th, last place)
1995--6;06(only 4 finishers) 3;43(9th last place)
1990--6;37. 3;53(9th last place)

So not only are guys getting a lot faster, but more and more are able to just compete. 60+ is becoming one of the larger age groups, next to the ones just below it in the 50+...
Last edited by: monty: May 24, 19 9:11
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Re: Testosterone Pellets [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I think at least "some" of that was that masters swimming wasn't really a thing until relatively recently. When I graduated in '93, I had never heard of masters swimming. So the talent pool is definitely deeper than it was back then.

It would be interesting to see where the people came from, then vs now. I suspect that back then it was more SoCal / Arizona / Nevada based athletes, and maybe Florida, and now it's much more spread out.

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Re: Testosterone Pellets [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I think at least "some" of that was that masters swimming wasn't really a thing until relatively recently. When I graduated in '93, I had never heard of masters swimming. So the talent pool is definitely deeper than it was back then. //

Well why would you hear about it, you were in college. When I was in college it wasn't a thing either, but in 93 me and all my swim buddies were fully involved in masters swimming. Of course it has grown in numbers since then, but I believe the total # of swimmers to do nationals has been pretty constant for awhile. In fact, there were less this year than last by a few. Like I said, there are tons of reasons for all this improvement, but are they all legit? Seems funny to me that the times got so much faster, not just for 10t, but the pointy end too, since the longevity revolution that began about 15 to 20 years ago.. You know that conversation that guy had with all his cycling buddies and them all admitting taking stuff, bet it would be similar with a group of 50+ something swimmers too...


I mean we have 65+ year olds going 4;30 in the 400IM. Does that seem possible in the real world??
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Re: Testosterone Pellets [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I think at least "some" of that was that masters swimming wasn't really a thing until relatively recently. When I graduated in '93, I had never heard of masters swimming. So the talent pool is definitely deeper than it was back then. //

Well why would you hear about it, you were in college. When I was in college it wasn't a thing either, but in 93 me and all my swim buddies were fully involved in masters swimming. Of course it has grown in numbers since then, but I believe the total # of swimmers to do nationals has been pretty constant for awhile. In fact, there were less this year than last by a few. Like I said, there are tons of reasons for all this improvement, but are they all legit? Seems funny to me that the times got so much faster, not just for 10t, but the pointy end too, since the longevity revolution that began about 15 to 20 years ago.. You know that conversation that guy had with all his cycling buddies and them all admitting taking stuff, bet it would be similar with a group of 50+ something swimmers too...


I mean we have 65+ year olds going 4;30 in the 400IM. Does that seem possible in the real world??

I'm really talking about after I graduated, I kinda wanted to keep swimming but there weren't any real options then.

As for the 400IM times, you guys swim in a bathtub. What's that in a real pool? ;-)

edit - and I'm sure you're right about the prevalence of PED's in masters swimming. 'scuze me while I put my rose-coloured glasses back on....

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: May 24, 19 9:30
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Re: Testosterone Pellets [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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chrisb12 wrote:
Low T is not an illness, it is a symptom of aging and overtraining. Once your race is over ease up the training and watch your levels rise again. It's not like taking warfarin for a heart condition, it isn't essential. In fact, as we age we produce less T and women less oestrogen, it is what our bodies are meant to do, the symptoms we may not like, but they are natural, adding hormones could be a reason why we have so many other diseases now. Don't f... with nature.


It's a common idiom, but it would abolish the entirety of modern medicine, no?

But to your point, nothing is free, in that we'll never completely elucidate all off-target effects (aka side effects) and how those influence health by other mechanisms. For many disorders, it's worth the risk; for others it's not.

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Last edited by: domingjm: May 24, 19 11:49
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