Will check them out. I used to have the Conti Podium TT tubs which were a quick tyre.

Corsa Speed is faster than Veloflex Record, so if it beats Corsa how come it may not beat Veloflex Record?

Except it is not faster per Aerocoach RR data. Not even close.

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data

You are like 2 years late.... It is not fastest tire like few years..

"Veloflex renewed all their tires in Q3 2020 and the Record now makes use of a "natural rubber and silica" compound instead of the "natural rubber exclusive" compound that was used before Q3 2020. The use of silica increases wet grip but it comes at the cost of a 10-15% increase in rolling resistance."

Good info. Thanks for the update.

Aren’t the improved numbers for the GP 5000s TR doubted, thus the improvement for the “special edition” GP 5000s TT TdF2022 then even more in doubt?
All searches only give availability from German sites and only 25mm sizing.

You're slighlty obtuse. You're quoting BRR, but it's been mentionned to you Aerocoach tested the VR faster. Aerocoach tested both compounds and the difference was insignifiant.

We shall know pretty soon whether the record is actually faster thanks to Rob84.
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=7740243

It's still the fastest tire, just not by a large margin.

Saw the new GP 5000 TT for saw on a euro site. €99.90.

Edit: already coming down it price! €83.61
https://r2-bike.com/...aker-Limited-Edition

Ends up going back up to 99 euro/tire after you factor in shipping, but not the end of the world for a top end race tire.

Mine were shipped this morning, will try them next week hopefully.

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

Where are the doubts popping up? I'm moving towards the newest 5000s and would be interested to see any tests showing a noticeable gap to the corsa speeds.

5 watts slower
https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data

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blog

Thanks, I missed that one. Looking forward to a 3rd major tester to see if any of the differences between aerocoach and brr can be settled. I've had good luck with corsas, so I should probably stick with the unbroken thing.

Just for clarity - The Continental Grand Prix TT and the Continental Grand Prix 5000TT TDF are not the same tire.
The latter is the newest, lighter version of the tubeless GP5000S TR, and I believe neither BRR nor Aerocoach has tested it. It was on a number of this year's TDF Stage 1 TT bikes. However, underdog Lampaert won (in very wet conditions) riding Specialized's newest also-not-yet-available tires.

We're on it but haven't got hold of them yet, UK distributor is being slow!

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

What are you playing at Xav! :-p

I dont think it is as good as a Veloflex or Vittoria but it isnt very far away and as a TT specific tyre it could be more aero (rim dependant). Be interesting to see if you get the same results.

I did my simple roller test of the Corsa Speed vs the Veloflex Record. The Records I got are the newer version with the slightly rougher texture. The Veloflex is a stupidly fast tire.

Nice thread -

Corsa Speed, Veloflex Record, GrandPrix 5000TT TDF, and maybe later... the newest Specialized tire Lampaert rode (which, not to marginalize his bike handling skills, is obviously good in the wet).

As the opinions/tests are posted, please state what size tire, and if a latex tube was used or how much sealant.

Selfish request because in my most recent 10K TT, the difference between 2nd and 3rd (Me) was .23 second - that's 23 one hundredths of a second!

I do wish they’d make it in something other than 23mm. I have a lot of the first gen/sick tread Records but 23mm is too skinny to run on Hed Vanquish.

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

We are getting way off topic, but I am not sure I would say the 23 is too narrow for the Vanquish. The Knot wheels from Cannondale are based on the HED patent and have the same 21mm internal width. The SystemSix ships with 23mm Vittorias and Cannondale designed and tested their rim for that specific tire and claim that it is best with the 23.

I tested the GP5000TT with a latex tube, mainly because it is much easier when swapping between tyres but also because I use a Quarq tyrewiz for pressure measurement and I didnt want to get sealant in it. I think this model is only available in 25mm.
Veloflex (with a slick surface) in 23mm with a latex tube
Vittoria Corsa Speed 2.0 in 25mm with a latex tube

Bob

How did they do?

Apparently, Tom Pidcock's unbelievable 62mph Stage 12 descent yesterday was done on GP 5000S TR tires.

Gotta love the new tech - Life is good!

Tom's handling skills are amazing. It seems impossible for a guy that light to drop down a mountain like he does.

Not so good when you gotta pay $100 for a $40 tire.

On yesterday's training ride, I got passed by a $250K V12 Ferrari that sounded like canvas ripping. I can't afford the Ferrari, but I can afford the TT bike I was on.

A sad fact of life is that across almost all sports, speed costs money. Sure, I'd prefer $40 racing tires. However, when compared to the Clement Silk tubular's we raced in the 70's, IMHO these newest racing tubeless tires, that give this kind of performance, are a good value - simply use your $40 tires w/butyl inners for training.

The GP5000 TR is no Ferrari... (wouldn't that be the Clemet silk... exotic, fast, fragile?) maybe an overpriced Lexus sedan. It's no faster than the TL, and slower than several other tires you can buy for far less money.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...grand-prix-5000-s-tr
https://www.bikeradar.com/...rix-5000s-tr-review/

Pros are using tires with this label... but I doubt they are the same. Conti typically supplies pro tires (going back many years) without the vectran belt and with thinner tread... and tubulars with latex tubes. I have no proof they are doing that here, but it would make sense.

Continental has been making excellent tires for many years now... they win the durability/reliability/speed contest nearly every time, and they aren't too expensive (except for this tire). So I use the GP5000 clincher on a daily basis... but if speed is your priority there are faster tires, like Corsa Speed, Pista (no longer made), VF Record, and Michelin TT. And I don't think I've paid over $40/tire for racing or training yet.

Do you have any links for where these faster racing tires are in stock for less than $40?

At Bike24 you can get the VF Record for $36, but there is a flat $20 shipping charge (seems to not matter how much you buy), so you should load up on bike stuff. GP5000 is $33 from there. Michelin TT is $42. The Pistas and Corsa Speeds I bought awhile ago. The Michelin TT currently is $50 shipped from ebay.

Lots of tires are faster than the TR... like the GP5000 with a latex tube.

I'm in the US and have previously ordered from Wiggle in the UK. I was unaware of Bike24 - their prices seem excellent - Thank you!


I know - this was really my opinion of the TR's grip and cornering capabilities during Pidcock's truly unbelievable descent in Stage 12 of the TDF.

My switch to 25mm tubeless tires w/sealant on my racing wheels was two-fold. #1 - it seems like all the newest tire tech is being released this way and #2 - I race relatively short TT's. You get a flat, you're screwed. Should I re-think this?

You are screwed in a TT if you flat, but IME the stuff that damages bike tires is on the shoulder. So if you can avoid riding on the shoulder, fragile tires without sealant are ok. I'm mostly worried about flats during warmup. Definitely a risk/reward tradeoff.

AeroCoach has posted data on this tire and it's just behind the Corsa Speed, Power TT, and Supersonic. So second fastest TL tire

And correct me if I’m wrong, fastest hookless compatible TL tire correct?

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MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

Looks like Aerocoach also corrected their (flawed?) test result on the Veloflex Record. It's now a more reasonable 21.3w as opposed to the previously posted 16.5w, which raised a lot of eyebrows.

Smaller tires are usually more aero than larger ones on any rim, so long as you don't get silly. So if you are getting better Crr, and your roads are good, then there is no downside.

BTW... I flatted a VFR at Masters Nats recently... only a minute after leaving the ramp! I don't know that I can really blame the tire though, as I suspect I actually damaged it (tiny cut in the casing right where the tread meets the sidewall) at a road race last fall and didn't realize it, because it didn't flat at that time. Anyway the latex tube eventually extruded through that tiny cut and popped.

https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data

Would like to get some clarification on that... 21.3 W is more than their corrected data used to be. Maybe just a newer test. Same as the 25mm Corsa Speed now.

GP5000 TT TL is 23.1 W, so decent for a tire that is surely more durable.

I flatted my VFR at elite nationals just before the turn around too. There was a 5mm cut just off center on the tread. The course was shaped like and L. I came out of the right hand corner heading up to the turn around and psssssss. The tire went down so fast I almost crashed as the front end got loose.

I’ll keep them for my track racing adventures. Interestingly enough they also measure around 25mm on my LB 3spoke wheel.

I'd still use VFRs for TTs. Used Vittoria Pistas for a few years with no issues. Obviously you ran over something sharp, and it's hard to tell if it would have punctured a slightly more durable tire.

I don't think they "corrected" a "flawed" test. Their post says they updated it because the tire has been updated.

Aerocoach restested the VFR with new tread and got only 7.5% increase vs the original slick and slippery models, putting it at ~17.7W vs the earlier 16.5W. Now it has jumped to 21.3W and I wonder when that happened? I didn't think the tire had been changed lately.


https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ds_P7339645/?page=-1
Xavier
Jul 2, 21 8:59
Post #113 of 114 (938 views)
Also, we've just retested the latest batch of Veloflex Records that we've been sent, and there's a ~7.5% increase in Crr compared to previous ones. The tread is a bit different on these. We contacted Veloflex and they confirmed that the tread is now done differently, but the difference is only 1.2w for a pair of wheels at 45kph (0.6w per tyre), meaning that they're still faster than Corsa Speeds.

From what we can see, there appear to have been some changes in the VF Records and I'm discussing it with Veloflex at the moment. We absolutely had in our possession a number of tyres which had the super low Crr, there's no question about that. Since then there have been some changes, perhaps small construction wise but significant Crr wise, and the post referenced where I tested the slick vs non slick appears to be after a general jump up in Crr (in that post I just did a quick 1 to 1 comparison between the two tyres to see the differences but not absolute values).

It makes sense now because the data we have on the most current tyres is much more inline with everyone else who's tested them, which must have been the non super version/a more recent version. Still a good tyre IMO - we've now finally managed to get hold of stock of 23mm Corsa Speeds but until they came back in the 23mm Records were by far the best 23mm option.

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AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk

I believe you are correct. One of the real weaknesses of hookless was the lack of fast tires. The new GP5000 TT is competitive with the Corsa Speed on Crr and is probably more aero. Now that the new VFR is no longer stupidly fast, hooked rims are losing one of their last big advantages.

The fact that the gp5000 TT doesn’t come in 23mm eliminates them from my consideration

You should care about real size, not nominal size. 25mm GP5k is similar to GP4k in 23mm, if you were previously using that.

I am comparing it to gp5000 and corsa speeds. Was thinking about putting this on the front wheel of my road bike.

I guess I am sticking with corsa speeds then. Even if the Conti is more durable, I’d be worried about the increase in crr with wear like the regular tires have. I’ve never had a corsa speed I’d want to ride past 250 miles haha, not a problem

I always kept a spare but stopped a couple years ago, waiting for the TT to come out in case it was better. Unfortunately the supply chain caught me out but now they are back in stock.

What is the internal rim width and the mounted width of the 5000TT on that rim? The Power TTs I am running tend to be on the larger side of a 25mm. I’m thinking the Conti may measure on the lower side of a 25 like the rest of the GP 5000s.

I have a 23mm VFR on my LightBicycle 3spoke and it measures a hair over 25mm at 90 psi.

To some folks on warmup flats........for TT I take my roadie or cross bike with me and do the warmup on that. I also see folks on fluid trainers. I tend to ride the TT bike in "race day setup" in a mock low intensity ride to verify all good a day or two before race day so I have time to rectify issues and that if a tire is losing air slow, I'll see it before raceday and be good to go. I've ridden the TT bike a pile, no need to warmup on it.

Sure, shit still happens. But you just reduced the possible shit by a few miles of possible warmup road hazards.

Unfortunately for road nationals this year I didn’t have the opportunity to a trainer or rollers. The family packed into my Honda Civic with a few bikes ranging from my TT bike to a strider and wheels to match. But yeah I’ve seen way too many flats in pre-race warm up, usually in a beat up parking lot, or turning around in a dirty place on the road.

Hypothetically speaking if you consider BRR the CRR experts and Aerocoach the CDA experts and add them together you get this assuming latex tubes (BRR test results -1.7w) in the non tubeless tires:
Record clincher aero is an estimation as it’s more narrow but has a glueed on tread like the CS so I gave it a 319w educated guess.

25mm tires CRR + CDA
CS 2.0 7.5w + 320.1w = 327.6
SchwalbePro1 8.1w + 317.2w = 325.3
PowerTT latex 7.5w + 319.2w = 326.7
Record 23mm 8.1w + 319w = 327.1

So maybe the Schwalbe is actually the fastest tire to run? I know you can poke holes in the above. Tire to rim interface and such things. Aerocoach says you can run a tubeless tire with a latex tube with no penalty? It’s hypothetically interesting.

Thus it is a tie, considering the measurement errors no protagonists is quoting.

Well, I'll tell you what I want -

GP5000TT's EXACTLY like the ones Bigham just broke the One Hour Record with! Ha!!!!!!!!!!!

What probably is very different is the Princeton Carbon wheels. I bet the tire pressure is sky high ,to get the Crr down to something similar to a Vittoria Pista track tire. Your garden variety carbon clincher would/could blow apart at 200psi. I wouldn’t be surprised if they used a wire bead.

Mine will be here in three days.........here we go!

I read somewhere that he was running 130 psi but maybe he would be kind enough to grace us with his presence.

Good stuff going on with this thread. Happy new data was brought forward to clear things up for everyone.

It is unlikely a special wheel and/or tire was made for Dan. A big part of me hopes we can get confirmation stock parts were used and get the details on actual pressure. I'm expecting it to be quite a bit above max pressure. 130 being the floor of my expectations. I would expect Dan to pump to failure and run the numbers backwards to figure out what he can get away with, then test aero to do the final optimization.

Oh and as a side note to some comments regarding race recon and warmup rumpophobia; why not just bring training wheels? I don't see anyting simpler and more efficient than this. That's what I do and I can tell you it's not on my "things to improve" list.

Has anyone got a mounted width on these?

As per Rony Kuba:

25mm GP5000 TT measures 27mm on a HED Vanquish with 21mm internal width rim.


Not sure how accurate his measurement is but if accurate this would mean they run on the narrow side of the spectrum.

BRR results are in and they tested at 0.2W slower than the Corsa Speed. May be faster when combining aero.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

We kinda already “know” from the combined aero crr charts from aerocoach. Could take the newer crr and pair with aero of a gp5000.

If it is only .2 slower on crr, the combined is “hellllzzzz yeah”.

This link is to a TdF branded tire, any reason to believe that's different than the 5000 S TR?
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/continental-grand-prix-5000-s-tr

Yes, the 5000 S TR and 5000 TT TdF are two completely different tires, which is why BRR has distinct test results for each. This thread is specifically focused on the TT tire, not the S TR.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...toria-corsa-speed-g2
And the Corsas effectively equal at 80psi (and one mm wider) - As upthread "considering the measurement errors no protagonists is quoting"

Best deal around right now:
https://www.competitivecyclist.com/...-tdf-limited-edition

Aerocoach tire aero:
CS = 320.1w
GP5000 = 318.7w

1.4w aero savings. So if CRR according to BRR is equal then the 5000TT (assuming equal aero to GP5000) should be at least 1.4w faster not even taking into account it measures slightly narrower which is an added bonus.

Is is really narrower? GP5000 is already pretty narrow.

The thinner tread will not help aero. Plus it's good to note that the 5000 TT was found to be as fragile and thin as the CS, per BRR. No magic happening.

It’s not narrower than a GP5000.
Thinner Tread and feels more supple.
Twice as hard to mount.
26.8 width on a Lightbicycle Trispoke which is the same as the GP5000 it replaced.

Thought as much. I guess the clue is in the "TT" - fit for short time trials not long distance triathlon on average roads which most of us ride on.

I think they'd be fine for any race on pavement. Just don't expect a robust training tire that is also very fast.

Essentially it’s a tie at the top if you run with latex tubes. CS, GP TT, Veloflex Record, Power TT, Schwalbe Pro 1 TT. Pick one. Splitting hairs or less.

Twice as hard to mount in comparison to GP5000 TR? Those damn things are brutal to mount in my hed jet blacks.