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New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds
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But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel.

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Last edited by: Xavier: Oct 5, 20 9:35
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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impressive!


I always loved Veloflex tubulars. Will pick some of these up.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Also not tubeless compatible - maybe they are so thin that sealant wouldn't have a good shot of sealing small punctures anyways, but that does slightly alter the risk/reward calculation in running a tire that one would think (based on weight and thickness alone) would be very fragile.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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At that weight, the Vittoria Pista Speed, not the Corsa Speed, is probably the fair comparison.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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I could hardly get out of my driveway on the Corsa Speeds without getting a flat! Those Veloflexes might not make it out of my garage!
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Vittoria doesn't have a pista speed clincher, unfortunately.



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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
Vittoria doesn't have a pista speed clincher, unfortunately.


But kinda of makes sense as you wouldn't want to run a clincher at wood track pressure.

The use-case for ~145g tires clinchers is pretty narrow. Asphalt/concrete tracks and really pristine TT courses. I still mostly run tubular on non-wood tracks just for the safety aspect.

I'm pretty daring, but Corsa Speed is about my personal limit for amateur TT courses.
Last edited by: trail: Oct 5, 20 10:33
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I could hardly get out of my driveway on the Corsa Speeds without getting a flat! Those Veloflexes might not make it out of my garage!

Are you referring to the original (G1.0) or current (G2.0) versions? If the former, I had similar experiences. But I've found the current G2.0 version to be much more durable. I'm not saying it's a Gatorskin, but a marked improvement over the G1.0.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
I'm pretty daring, but Corsa Speed is about my personal limit for amateur TT courses.

I'm going to give them a go and see how they workout for me. I do have pretty pristine roads and I had zero flats on my Corsa Speeds. But it might be an expensive experiment that doesn't workout for me.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Ex-cyclist wrote:
Vittoria doesn't have a pista speed clincher, unfortunately.


But kinda of makes sense as you wouldn't want to run a clincher at wood track pressure.

The use-case for ~145g tires clinchers is pretty narrow. Asphalt/concrete tracks and really pristine TT courses. I still mostly run tubular on non-wood tracks just for the safety aspect.

I'm pretty daring, but Corsa Speed is about my personal limit for amateur TT courses.

True, as it would blow off the rim, which would be very very bad. But this on is starting to touch the Corsa Speed Pista (SWAG). At a 125-30 psi it might be just as fast or faster due to lack of hysteresis.



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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Since you did some on track testing, how was the CdA+Crr? 5 watts of Crr is a whole lot to overcome with CdA from another choice.



Heath Dotson
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:

I'm going to give them a go and see how they workout for me. I do have pretty pristine roads and I had zero flats on my Corsa Speeds. But it might be an expensive experiment that doesn't workout for me.

Let us know how it goes because 5W is Real Watts (tm).
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Let us know how it goes because 5W is Real Watts (tm).


yeah, will do! it was crazy when I saw that.....I was on the road when I saw the results, but as soon as I got back in front of my Mac I order a pair up. Again, pricey at €99 shipped, but I'd pay that all day for 5W if I can get some miles out of them. That being said, if they do well for me I might not be the best test case as "delicate" tires fair pretty well under me. Conversely, if they don't make it out of the driveway it's bound to be a tire that no one should ride. ;)

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Last edited by: LAI: Oct 5, 20 10:52
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Also not tubeless compatible - maybe they are so thin that sealant wouldn't have a good shot of sealing small punctures anyways
At 144g it would be difficult for the tire to have adequately-low sidewall porosity to contain sealant in the first place, or be stiff enough about the beads for tubeless seating to be both safe and practical.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Also not tubeless compatible - maybe they are so thin that sealant wouldn't have a good shot of sealing small punctures anyways, but that does slightly alter the risk/reward calculation in running a tire that one would think (based on weight and thickness alone) would be very fragile.

It's definitely not clear cut, Corsa Speeds might be the better option but we've got a race this weekend (national closed circuit/motor circuit TT champs) and 3 of our team will be on Records for that, so we'll get an idea of how they perform on a nice surface at least.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
At that weight, the Vittoria Pista Speed, not the Corsa Speed, is probably the fair comparison.

I should probably do the Pista clincher (they don't do a Pista Speed clincher but the normal Pista has graphene etc.), they're what I use for training on the track and it's a similar construction!

AeroCoach UK
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
trail wrote:
Let us know how it goes because 5W is Real Watts (tm).


yeah, will do! it was crazy when I saw that.....I was on the road when I saw the results, but as soon as I got back in front of my Mac I order a pair up. Again, pricey at €99 shipped, but I'd pay that all day for 5W if I can get some miles out of them. That being said, if they do well for me I might not be the best test case as "delicate" tires fair pretty well under me. Conversely, if they don't make it out of the driveway it's bound to be a tire that no one should ride. ;)


Uh. where are you seeing 99 eur shipped, unless you're talking for the pair.

https://www.veloflex.it/en/clincher-tire-record-2020




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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
Since you did some on track testing, how was the CdA+Crr? 5 watts of Crr is a whole lot to overcome with CdA from another choice.

Yes definitely - on our Titan, the CdA for 23mm Record is almost identical to the 23mm Corsa Speed.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RKW] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure a pair remains available from Veloflex. The website will allow me to place one in the shopping cart, but when I try to update to two tires, I get the message "The requested qty is not available"

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
I could hardly get out of my driveway on the Corsa Speeds without getting a flat! Those Veloflexes might not make it out of my garage!


Are you referring to the original (G1.0) or current (G2.0) versions? If the former, I had similar experiences. But I've found the current G2.0 version to be much more durable. I'm not saying it's a Gatorskin, but a marked improvement over the G1.0.

1.0. Fastest flat I've ever had on a new tire (I think a quarter of a mile?) and particularly discouraging given how smooth and clean the roads are in my community. At IMFL I was a SAG driver and helped a number of people fix flats. First... I'm amazed at how few people know how to change a tube/tire. Second, about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RKW] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. The pair.


RKW wrote:
Uh. where are you seeing 99 eur shipped, unless you're talking for the pair.

https://www.veloflex.it/en/clincher-tire-record-2020




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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure a pair remains available from Veloflex. The website will allow me to place one in the shopping cart, but when I try to update to two tires, I get the message "The requested qty is not available"


huh. My order is showing a qty of two. I figured there might be a run after Xav posted the results so I pulled the trigger quickly. I would have held off but I have worn completely through the rubber on my Corsa Speed 1.0s and I need to replace them

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Last edited by: LAI: Oct 5, 20 13:02
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.

Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...

On a side note the open tubular records seem to be sold out now. They were showing in stock when I ordered just a few hours ago.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.


Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...


I'm n=2. I've used Corsa Speed for TT, RR, criterium, and non-wood track for years now, and they've been just fine.

I can only remember one flat off-hand. That was a pinch flat in a 100-mile TT. (tubeless pinch flat, no less, which was a feat).

I've since gone to GP5000TL for RR and criterium for grip purposes (Corsa Speed grip in the wet leaves a lot to be desired), but sticking the CS for now for TT/track. I've worn 3-4 sets down to the casing.
Last edited by: trail: Oct 5, 20 15:17
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve had a set of the new Records for a couple of weeks, and have put about 35 miles on them on the roads of southern New Jersey. So far so good in terms of reliability; not flats and no cuts, gouges, etc in the rubber.

They are THIIIIIIIIN though!

Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
LAI wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.


Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...


I'm n=2. I've used Corsa Speed for TT, RR, criterium, and non-wood track for years now, and they've been just fine.

I can only remember one flat off-hand. That was a pinch flat in a 100-mile TT. (tubeless pinch flat, no less, which was a feat).

I've since gone to GP5000TL for RR and criterium for grip purposes (Corsa Speed grip in the wet leaves a lot to be desired), but sticking the CS for now for TT/track. I've worn 3-4 sets down to the casing.

I'm in the down to the chords camp too. I think a lot of people just don't pay attention to where they're riding. I'm pretty sure very few people do the "brush the tire" trick with their fingers when they run through stuff either. I was taught that early and it is pretty much reflexive at this point.



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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel. [/Quoten]

What is a typical error of you crr measurements?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
I should probably do the Pista clincher (they don't do a Pista Speed clincher but the normal Pista has graphene etc.), they're what I use for training on the track and it's a similar construction!

That's what I used last year. Basically a Corsa Speed without the tubeless stuff. I think they quit making them though, only "Pista Control" is listed on Vittoria's site now.

The older version VFR was quite small for a 23; are the new ones the same... also small?

I don't have a problem with using fragile tires in a TT. You're very unlikely to run over a puncturing object if you stay off the shoulder, and roughness, cracks, and potholes are no more likely to damage a fragile tire. The sidewall casing is the same as their more durable road tires... true for Veloflex, Vittoria, and Continental anyway.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [BergHugi] [ In reply to ]
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In terms of Crr, around 0.000025 typically.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel.

https://aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data

Vittoria latex inner tubes?
Use vredestein Xavier, you are leaving 0,77w on the table at 45k/h.
See tour test 07-2020
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Jo O.] [ In reply to ]
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Jo O. wrote:
Xavier wrote:
But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel.

https://aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data


Vittoria latex inner tubes?
Use vredestein Xavier, you are leaving 0,77w on the table at 45k/h.
See tour test 07-2020

Got some Schwalbe and Wolfpack inner tubes on the way to test for the next inner tube update, will add Vredestein into the mix.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
Got some Schwalbe and Wolfpack inner tubes on the way to test for the next inner tube update, will add Vredestein into the mix.

Was looking at those Schwalbes this am and thinking to myself I wonder if Xavier is going to test these. They claim latex(esque) CRR numbers. I just don't know about a plastic valve stem. Also, the $$$?? but they are light and I might grab a 27.5 for a spare. Curious to hear your feedback on the plastic stem.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Jo O.] [ In reply to ]
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Jo O. wrote:
Xavier wrote:
But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel.

https://aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data


Vittoria latex inner tubes?
Use vredestein Xavier, you are leaving 0,77w on the table at 45k/h.
See tour test 07-2020

Any info on which sizes of tubes and in which tyre (model, size, installed width)? I tested Vittoria vs. Vredestein a year or two ago and if anything the Vittoria was slightly faster, though difference was negligible and around noise level (~0.2W/tyre at 50kph).
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
Xavier wrote:
Got some Schwalbe and Wolfpack inner tubes on the way to test for the next inner tube update, will add Vredestein into the mix.


Was looking at those Schwalbes this am and thinking to myself I wonder if Xavier is going to test these. They claim latex(esque) CRR numbers. I just don't know about a plastic valve stem. Also, the $$$?? but they are light and I might grab a 27.5 for a spare. Curious to hear your feedback on the plastic stem.

If it's similar construction valve stem to the Tubolitos then I know people have had issues with them, but personally I haven't found it to be any problem

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
Jo O. wrote:
Xavier wrote:
But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel.

https://aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data


Vittoria latex inner tubes?
Use vredestein Xavier, you are leaving 0,77w on the table at 45k/h.
See tour test 07-2020

Any info on which sizes of tubes and in which tyre (model, size, installed width)? I tested Vittoria vs. Vredestein a year or two ago and if anything the Vittoria was slightly faster, though difference was negligible and around noise level (~0.2W/tyre at 50kph).

Vredestein superlite 20-25 15w
Vittoria competition 25-28. 15,3w
Michelin air comp 22-23. 15,4w
Challenge seamless 19-28. 15,1w
35k per h
Schwalbe pro one tire
85 kg system weight
7 bars
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Jo O.] [ In reply to ]
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That's the thicker 25-28 Vittoria inner tube, I wonder if that's why it's coming out slower and not what MTM found if he used a 19-23 tube?

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Jo O.] [ In reply to ]
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Jo O. wrote:
Vredestein superlite 20-25 15w
Vittoria competition 25-28. 15,3w
Michelin air comp 22-23. 15,4w
Challenge seamless 19-28. 15,1w
35k per h
Schwalbe pro one tire
85 kg system weight
7 bars

It's a pittance anyway.

Back 12 years ago or so, Vredestein made some super thick latex tubes. I still have two in good shape! They are 1mm thick and weigh ~110g. Unlike all the other latex tubes I've used, these are very robust. They do not extrude into small cuts and they are not distorted, stretched, and looking funky. They seem to however pinch flat and puncture from sharp objects (like thorns, staples, wires) more readily than the thin tubes.

I could not tell a difference in Crr between these and thin Vred tubes in my roller testing, but I'd put my error margin of at least 1% on that.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Jo O.] [ In reply to ]
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Jo O. wrote:
MTM wrote:
Jo O. wrote:
Xavier wrote:
But are outrageously thin at 144g! In our roller testing ~5w faster than Corsa Speeds at 45kph for a pair of wheels, when coupled with Vittoria latex inners. We also did indoor velodrome testing last week which corroborated these results, using one of our AEOX Titans (100mm deep) as a test wheel.

https://aero-coach.co.uk/...ling-resistance-data


Vittoria latex inner tubes?
Use vredestein Xavier, you are leaving 0,77w on the table at 45k/h.
See tour test 07-2020


Any info on which sizes of tubes and in which tyre (model, size, installed width)? I tested Vittoria vs. Vredestein a year or two ago and if anything the Vittoria was slightly faster, though difference was negligible and around noise level (~0.2W/tyre at 50kph).


Vredestein superlite 20-25 15w
Vittoria competition 25-28. 15,3w
Michelin air comp 22-23. 15,4w
Challenge seamless 19-28. 15,1w
35k per h
Schwalbe pro one tire
85 kg system weight
7 bars

Thanks. I wonder what their error bars are like, if they might all be within their testing resolution (though if it's roller testing the resolution should be fairly good). I recall that Michelin latex tubes were testing slightly worse by people, but other brands seemed to be pretty much the same.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
That's the thicker 25-28 Vittoria inner tube, I wonder if that's why it's coming out slower and not what MTM found if he used a 19-23 tube?

I actually also used the 25-28mm Vittoria tube in my testing - albeit the old one with brass valve as the new one with aluminum valve wasn't out at the time. IIRC the new one has some graphene in it (like Silca's - which I think Josh said should make it ever so slightly faster, but who knows).

I actually tested the thicker/larger Vittoria tube as it seems more sturdy as rruff mentions, so it was to see if there was any drawback to running that vs. the very thin Vredestein. At least with regards to installation and general handling it seems more sturdy with the thicker and larger tube. My totally anecdoctal evidence suggest the Vittoria 25-28mm tubes are holding up fine against sharp objects penetrating the tyre - I had several sharp flints penetrate my tyre during last winter with none of them puncturing the tube. But the thin Vredestein might have held up fine as well?

Also, I've been wondering whether a stretched thin tube has more or less hystersis than a thicker less stretched tube. Maybe if Vredestein made a 25-28mm tube that would be the best?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
LAI wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.


Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...


I'm n=2. I've used Corsa Speed for TT, RR, criterium, and non-wood track for years now, and they've been just fine.
Same here. I really really hate to let people in on this, but Corsa Speeds are actually pretty robust. I have a ton of experience riding them -- since they came out I've used them for all my TTs and Crits, many road races, and one Tri (IMSC 2018), with no flats in races (and only one flat in training). I used one on a spare wheel in the Chico stage race last year through five miles of pretty deep gravel that you go through twice, no flats. Two years ago I used one on the front in Copperopolis RR, where about half of racers flat and DNF, again no flats for me. After a few hundred miles of TTs I swap them off my race wheels and wear them out the rest of the way in training, so I've ridden them into the ground numerous times. The rubber doesn't last very long for me -- maybe 750 miles total until the casing shows through? -- but I've even ridden them on dirt/rocky single track trails numerous times with no flats. (If I recall correctly I did have one flat once in training but it was on the road on a pretty worn out tire and I don't remember the exact circumstances.) I'm not saying they're the most robust tires around, but honestly they are not that fragile - not obviously worse than anything else I ride, and way better than Michelins! (which I otherwise really like but the sidewalls split open at the first sign of gravel)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [MTM] [ In reply to ]
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MTM wrote:
Xavier wrote:
That's the thicker 25-28 Vittoria inner tube, I wonder if that's why it's coming out slower and not what MTM found if he used a 19-23 tube?


I actually also used the 25-28mm Vittoria tube in my testing - albeit the old one with brass valve as the new one with aluminum valve wasn't out at the time. IIRC the new one has some graphene in it (like Silca's - which I think Josh said should make it ever so slightly faster, but who knows).

I actually tested the thicker/larger Vittoria tube as it seems more sturdy as rruff mentions, so it was to see if there was any drawback to running that vs. the very thin Vredestein. At least with regards to installation and general handling it seems more sturdy with the thicker and larger tube. My totally anecdoctal evidence suggest the Vittoria 25-28mm tubes are holding up fine against sharp objects penetrating the tyre - I had several sharp flints penetrate my tyre during last winter with none of them puncturing the tube. But the thin Vredestein might have held up fine as well?

Also, I've been wondering whether a stretched thin tube has more or less hystersis than a thicker less stretched tube. Maybe if Vredestein made a 25-28mm tube that would be the best?

If I get the chance to test different size latex inners I'll give it a go. Just got a RevoLoop inner tube which is really light, supposedly the same speed as latex etc. so that'll be interesting to test.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [lanierb] [ In reply to ]
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lanierb wrote:
trail wrote:
LAI wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.


Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...


I'm n=2. I've used Corsa Speed for TT, RR, criterium, and non-wood track for years now, and they've been just fine.

Same here. I really really hate to let people in on this, but Corsa Speeds are actually pretty robust. I have a ton of experience riding them -- since they came out I've used them for all my TTs and Crits, many road races, and one Tri (IMSC 2018), with no flats in races (and only one flat in training). I used one on a spare wheel in the Chico stage race last year through five miles of pretty deep gravel that you go through twice, no flats. Two years ago I used one on the front in Copperopolis RR, where about half of racers flat and DNF, again no flats for me. After a few hundred miles of TTs I swap them off my race wheels and wear them out the rest of the way in training, so I've ridden them into the ground numerous times. The rubber doesn't last very long for me -- maybe 750 miles total until the casing shows through? -- but I've even ridden them on dirt/rocky single track trails numerous times with no flats. (If I recall correctly I did have one flat once in training but it was on the road on a pretty worn out tire and I don't remember the exact circumstances.) I'm not saying they're the most robust tires around, but honestly they are not that fragile - not obviously worse than anything else I ride, and way better than Michelins! (which I otherwise really like but the sidewalls split open at the first sign of gravel)

It's funny isn't it - I've had such good experience with Corsa Speeds as do a lot of our race team, but we get feedback from some customers who've had loads of problems. I suspect the same might end up being true with the Veloflex Records.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I could hardly get out of my driveway on the Corsa Speeds without getting a flat! Those Veloflexes might not make it out of my garage!

I've done six TTs on Corsa Speeds V2 (using latex inner tubes) without getting a flat or cut.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
I could hardly get out of my driveway on the Corsa Speeds without getting a flat! Those Veloflexes might not make it out of my garage!


I've done six TTs on Corsa Speeds V2 (using latex inner tubes) without getting a flat or cut.

I risked a local TT on a Pista Speed and it was great. There was about .8 miles of pot holes and loose asphalt chunks in the 10 mile course, no cuts, or any other issues even after getting nervous about bounding through a few rough patches.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Xavier wrote:
I should probably do the Pista clincher (they don't do a Pista Speed clincher but the normal Pista has graphene etc.), they're what I use for training on the track and it's a similar construction!

That's what I used last year. Basically a Corsa Speed without the tubeless stuff. I think they quit making them though, only "Pista Control" is listed on Vittoria's site now.

The older version VFR was quite small for a 23; are the new ones the same... also small?

I don't have a problem with using fragile tires in a TT. You're very unlikely to run over a puncturing object if you stay off the shoulder, and roughness, cracks, and potholes are no more likely to damage a fragile tire. The sidewall casing is the same as their more durable road tires... true for Veloflex, Vittoria, and Continental anyway.

Yes, the 2020 Veloflex Records are small. The 23s measure about 24 mm on my rims, where for example Corsa Speeds are about 1 mm wider. VFR are also small in "vertical dimension", i.e. they are "not tall".

I tried them on a training ride. And flatted. But only once :|. They do feel fast.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [jpiik] [ In reply to ]
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jpiik wrote:
Yes, the 2020 Veloflex Records are small. The 23s measure about 24 mm on my rims, where for example Corsa Speeds are about 1 mm wider. VFR are also small in "vertical dimension", i.e. they are "not tall".

I tried them on a training ride. And flatted. But only once :|. They do feel fast.

I'll have to remeasure my speeds, but I recall them being 24mm on my rims (17&19 internal front and back, respectively). Were you running the 1.0s or the 2.0s? If the latter, did they grow in size? My supersonic 23 also measures 24 on my Bonty D3. If Records come in at ≤ 24mm I think I am winning on the aero front. In regards to comfort I'm hoping for that classic veloflex ride.

Also, what pressure did you run at and how much do you weigh? Sucks on the flat.

My YouTubes

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
jpiik wrote:
Yes, the 2020 Veloflex Records are small. The 23s measure about 24 mm on my rims, where for example Corsa Speeds are about 1 mm wider. VFR are also small in "vertical dimension", i.e. they are "not tall".
I tried them on a training ride. And flatted. But only once :|. They do feel fast.


I'll have to remeasure my speeds, but I recall them being 24mm on my rims (17&19 internal front and back, respectively). Were you running the 1.0s or the 2.0s? If the latter, did they grow in size? My supersonic 23 also measures 24 on my Bonty D3. If Records come in at ≤ 24mm I think I am winning on the aero front. In regards to comfort I'm hoping for that classic veloflex ride.

Also, what pressure did you run at and how much do you weigh? Sucks on the flat.

My rims are 17 mm internal. The Corsa Speed (v 1.0) measurement was from memory, but I think they measured closer to 25 than 24 mm.

I'm about 66 kg ~145 lb, pressure was around 80 psi. The flat was from a small, sharp rock. There was quite a lot of debris on the roads. I think for races where you are on the middle of the road where it is cleaner, they can be manageable. But I also concur with the others that Corsa Speeds have been - surprisingly? - robust for me.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [jpiik] [ In reply to ]
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jpiik wrote:
The flat was from a small, sharp rock.

Sidewall?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
jpiik wrote:
The flat was from a small, sharp rock.


Sidewall?

No, in the middle.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [jpiik] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think we typically have rocks that are sharp enough to go through tread... even the wimpy VFR tread. I get slashed sidewalls a fair bit though.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
jpiik wrote:
Yes, the 2020 Veloflex Records are small. The 23s measure about 24 mm on my rims, where for example Corsa Speeds are about 1 mm wider. VFR are also small in "vertical dimension", i.e. they are "not tall".

I tried them on a training ride. And flatted. But only once :|. They do feel fast.


I'll have to remeasure my speeds, but I recall them being 24mm on my rims (17&19 internal front and back, respectively). Were you running the 1.0s or the 2.0s? If the latter, did they grow in size? My supersonic 23 also measures 24 on my Bonty D3. If Records come in at ≤ 24mm I think I am winning on the aero front. In regards to comfort I'm hoping for that classic veloflex ride.

Also, what pressure did you run at and how much do you weigh? Sucks on the flat.

Was just measuring the width of the 1.0s mounted to my new-to-me Bontrager Aeolus XXX 6 wheels. The nominal 23 mm tire ballooned to a whooping 25.8 mm. On my HED H3+/ Jet+ Disc, the same tires were a more reasonable 24 mm.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Update - four of our race team rode today at the UK closed circuit/motor circuit TT championships (18.7km) with Veloflex Records on. None of us punctured, none of us won either :D but we did get a 4th in the men’s and 9th in the women’s.

I found they had plenty of grip, I’ll inspect the wheels later for cuts etc but doesn’t seem like any issues. We rode our bikes around the venue as well before/after the race so it wasn’t just super smooth tarmac all day too.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
LAI wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
about 50% of the flats I tended to were Corsa Speeds.


Everything I have read has said the same thing and friends personal experience mirrored that, but damn if I didn't get a lot of miles out of mine. Like I said, I might be an outlier in terms of tire durability or really, really lucky. I should go play the lotto...


I'm n=2. I've used Corsa Speed for TT, RR, criterium, and non-wood track for years now, and they've been just fine.

I can only remember one flat off-hand. That was a pinch flat in a 100-mile TT. (tubeless pinch flat, no less, which was a feat).

Does that make it a durable tyre? Surely what matters is what others have experienced. If someone asks you what your thoughts on the Corsa Speed were you would mention your experience, but surely add that many other people had had issues with Corsa Speeds. If I had never had any problems with my Corsa Speeds I would still mention to people that plenty of others had had problems. I don't get why people recommend these tyres based on their own individual experiences.

That said, these tyres were never designed for triathlon or long road races on sub standard roads. You only have to pick one up and compare it to a Conti Competition to see they are a completely different tyre, with a different purpose. Vittoria also do state on their website these tyres are only fit for short TTs and are their least durable tyre (bar the track tyres). Hence the reason these tyres are only used in the TDF for the TT stage. So it's unfair for me to say they are a shit tyre because I flatted a few times during Ironman races. Vittoria would never recommend them for an Ironman or even a 70.3. I have no idea how people can ride these for multiple seasons and not get flats, they are wafer thin.

In 8 years of racing I've had 7 flats, 3 flats in the first 2 years on Vittoria Rubin Pros, 2 of those were as I came in to T2 so was all good, 3 flats on Corsa Speeds in 1.5 seasons (I ditched them halfway through a season) and 1 flat on Continental Attacks. I'm now on Conti Attacks for my training wheels (2 years without a flat, shit roads) and Conti Comps for racing, no flats. I actually have 3 Corsa Speeds sitting in my garage and for shits and giggles was thinking about putting them on my training wheels to see how long they last. (tubs).
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:

Does that make it a durable tyre? Surely what matters is what others have experienced. If someone asks you what your thoughts on the Corsa Speed were you would mention your experience, but surely add that many other people had had issues with Corsa Speeds.

The "n=2" makes it clear I was only talking about myself, and wasn't making any broad claims.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
zedzded wrote:


Does that make it a durable tyre? Surely what matters is what others have experienced. If someone asks you what your thoughts on the Corsa Speed were you would mention your experience, but surely add that many other people had had issues with Corsa Speeds.


The "n=2" makes it clear I was only talking about myself, and wasn't making any broad claims.

Ah OK, all good :)

That said, I wouldn't mind giving the Corsa's another crack. Maybe they're not that bad.They were my first tubs. The first two flats I hadn't used sealant (rookie error) the 3rd flat I felt it go down slightly and changed it, but in hindsight I think the sealant sealed the hole and I could have topped it up with c02 without changing it. Flats 4 and 5 were slow punctures, but when I got home I pumped them up and they seemed fine. I think it might have been leaky valve extenders, user error. So really, if I'd injected sealant from day 1 and ensured valve extenders were tight perhaps I would have had only 1 partial flat.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
MTM wrote:
Xavier wrote:
That's the thicker 25-28 Vittoria inner tube, I wonder if that's why it's coming out slower and not what MTM found if he used a 19-23 tube?


I actually also used the 25-28mm Vittoria tube in my testing - albeit the old one with brass valve as the new one with aluminum valve wasn't out at the time. IIRC the new one has some graphene in it (like Silca's - which I think Josh said should make it ever so slightly faster, but who knows).

I actually tested the thicker/larger Vittoria tube as it seems more sturdy as rruff mentions, so it was to see if there was any drawback to running that vs. the very thin Vredestein. At least with regards to installation and general handling it seems more sturdy with the thicker and larger tube. My totally anecdoctal evidence suggest the Vittoria 25-28mm tubes are holding up fine against sharp objects penetrating the tyre - I had several sharp flints penetrate my tyre during last winter with none of them puncturing the tube. But the thin Vredestein might have held up fine as well?

Also, I've been wondering whether a stretched thin tube has more or less hystersis than a thicker less stretched tube. Maybe if Vredestein made a 25-28mm tube that would be the best?


If I get the chance to test different size latex inners I'll give it a go. Just got a RevoLoop inner tube which is really light, supposedly the same speed as latex etc. so that'll be interesting to test.


The would be interesting. Guess the Vittoria 19-24 mm (I think that's the size of the smaller one) vs. 25-28 mm would be the obvious comparison - less material vs. less stretch.

I don't hold much faith in those plasticky tubes. Seems like an awful material if you don't want hysteresis.
Last edited by: MTM: Oct 12, 20 11:58
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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My first experience with the Record clincher was back in 2009. Raced it on the front wheel at IM Austria and was lucky to get round without any dramas - never dared chance my luck in an IM with it again though. 19mm wide IIRC!

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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I may or may not have already picked up 8 of these (they're so thin that I can't imagine running them for more than 250km) but does anyone know if there are any plans to offer a 25c version? I'm guessing a 25c would be a bit faster and more comfortable on my Roval 321 disc and maybe up front as well.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Have you tested tubular v tubular, Veloflex v Corsa Speed v Dugast?

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Well I just received my pair of Records in case I'm given a slot at Challenge Miami. Crazy thin. And also a very different type of construction vs. any other tire I've ever seen. It really looks and feels like it's just the gum colored material with a tiny strip of glued down the center. Almost would make nervous to corner even moderately hard on it.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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They are super thin aren't they. I wouldn't worry about grip, four of us rode these in a motor circuit TT end of last year, I was banking the bike over at >60kph each lap and no loss of grip, our top male rider was doing the same/faster and he was fine too:

https://www.strava.com/activities/4181946730/analysis

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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All track tubulars have been built like that for decades, and ran at 130-160 PSI, at 70-80 km/h on sharp bends without any problems.
High end tubulars have to be made of the best fabrics though, be it cotton, silk or poly, as well as glues and rubber (synthetic or natural).

Mine are stretching and waiting for summer of 2021' :-).


I will order a few more just in case though...

Louis :-)
Last edited by: louisn: Feb 19, 21 17:36
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Those are new models like the clinchers?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Yes.
Here's one of them on a 88 X 25 mm Farsports Tubular rim ready to be built up soon:





Louis :-)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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louisn wrote:
Yes.
Here's one of them on a 88 X 25 mm Farsports Tubular rim ready to be built up soon:





Louis :-)

They're not the same construction as the clinchers actually - they're also worse for Crr than the clinchers. The tread pattern is more similar to the Veloflex Corsa range than the Record clincher.

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http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [sesel] [ In reply to ]
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sesel wrote:
My first experience with the Record clincher was back in 2009. Raced it on the front wheel at IM Austria and was lucky to get round without any dramas - never dared chance my luck in an IM with it again though. 19mm wide IIRC!

Wow, you’re back!

E

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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???
I would agree on the Crr as the tubular version has an added calicot (thin fabric) layer (casing protection lol !) under the "rubber".
But everything else is the same.
Thread pattern, or absence of it rather, is the same.
If you have a different pattern on the ones you got they're the old Record tubs.
It may "feel" different because of the calicot layer underneath it on the tubular version.

https://www.veloflex.it/en/clincher-tire-record-2020
https://www.veloflex.it/en/tubular-tire-record


Louis :-)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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The new Record tubulars have different tread thickness, different outer tread pattern and also have treated sidewalls, unlike the VF Record clinchers

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting.

I have lots of new Veloflex tubulars here (Record, Pro Tour, Pro Tour Race, Service Course) and I would say it's very difficult, even impossible for me to measure rolling band thickness alone ( not the total thickness of the tire with it's underside glued protection ) without cutting them. There is a very little noticeable difference in rolling band width though.

Xavier since you're a scientific, and can't rely like us on just some random info on some website or shady forum, you will have to cut them both and show us the difference :-D !! Do it for science !

Untreated ? I would also like to see the Crr difference on a same tire with, and without "sidewall treatment".
Then you can do another Crr test with a water soaked tire vs a "treated" one. That would be interesting.

Louis :-)
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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If you're getting lots of flats or cuts, maybe in the future you want to try some nano-tech tires. THESE looked interesting...not sure how practical they are or would be.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?

Bubble burst!
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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note on flats: I've done four 70.3's on the Corsaspeeds with latex tubes, with the last one at Florida 70.3 having some pretty rough roads, and haven't flatted. That said, I'm ready to go tubeless, wider and lower tire pressure as I'm just finding that in 70.3 races, the roads can get rough enough at times that I'd love to be at a lower tire pressure for comfort and to hypothetically maintain forward momentum better.

I'd like to see a 25mm internal diameter rear disc and deep front wheel set I could run 28mm tubeless tires on at less than 75psi and for those to roll fast and be aerodynamic. Thoughts?

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
note on flats: I've done four 70.3's on the Corsaspeeds with latex tubes, with the last one at Florida 70.3 having some pretty rough roads, and haven't flatted. That said, I'm ready to go tubeless, wider and lower tire pressure as I'm just finding that in 70.3 races, the roads can get rough enough at times that I'd love to be at a lower tire pressure for comfort and to hypothetically maintain forward momentum better.

I'd like to see a 25mm internal diameter rear disc and deep front wheel set I could run 28mm tubeless tires on at less than 75psi and for those to roll fast and be aerodynamic. Thoughts?

I believe the HED Vanquish RCD is about as close as you will be able to get to that right now. 21mm internal and 30mm external. The Jet Disc has an even wider external width at 32mm and the same internal width. That is the widest set of disc wheels that I know about.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?

Brr test with butyl tubes. We’ve done and redone the VF record data on rollers, round a wooden velodrome and also round a tarmac velodrome with the same results!

AeroCoach UK
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
RichardL wrote:
My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?


Brr test with butyl tubes. We’ve done and redone the VF record data on rollers, round a wooden velodrome and also round a tarmac velodrome with the same results!


The VF Record doesn't seem to compare as favorably to other tires tested with butyl tubes (e.g., in BRR data, 9.0w for VFR vs. 10.0w for tubed GP5000, and 8.3w for TL GP5000). Are you implying that there's that there's a substantial difference in latex vs. butyl advantage for the VFR? IIRC, there has been some historical precedent in performance variance between different product runs of tires before.

Edit: I re-read the BRR review and it notes: "We also tested the Record with a 78 grams Vittoria Latex tube, and rolling resistance came in at 7.3 watts at 120 psi / 8.3 bars. 7.3 watts isn't enough to beat the tubeless Corsa Speed G+ 2.0 or Michelin Power Time Trial with a latex tube (both 7.0 watts). A 25 mm wide version of the Record would probably be on par with those tires when fitted with a latex tube."

Edit 2: From comments by RR author (JarnoBierman) [references are to the original French test on the VFR being fast]: "Thanks for your link. This issue has now been cleared up a bit for me! 100% sure they changed the tread of the Record somewhere last year.
Look at my pictures and then your pictures... You have the version with the very smooth tread (almost like a latex tread). When you look at my pictures you'll see it has a textured tread just like all the new Veloflex tires released in Q3 2020."

From the looks of it, BRR's tire's track looks similar to what louisn posted in Feb. 2021 (although his were tubular); would you be able to confirm whether the VFRs you tested with were the smooth or textured tread?
Last edited by: aravilare: Apr 27, 21 9:26
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
RichardL wrote:
My unscientific rolling testing at 20 mph (32 kph) showed the new VF Record clinchers to be slower than my Corsa Speed 2.0 set up with inner tube. Not significantly slower, but slower nevertheless. I used Silca 700 x 24-30mm latex inner tube for the test runs. BRR also got similar test results: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...iews/veloflex-record

Did AeroCoach receive a magic, special VF Record clincher for their test?


Brr test with butyl tubes. We’ve done and redone the VF record data on rollers, round a wooden velodrome and also round a tarmac velodrome with the same results!

BRR also tested the VF Record with latex tube, same results. Scroll down to the bottom of the link above:


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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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BTW, I got my VFRs in Q1 2021 directly from Veloflex, and they have textured tread.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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So we have data on the old VF Record clincher (the one that’s been around for ages), the VF Record tubular with slight textured tread and the VF Record clincher with smooth tread. Both the old clincher and the tubular don’t have as good Crr as the Corsa Speed, but the smooth tread clincher is significantly faster. Aerodynamically the smooth tread clincher is very similar to a Corsa Speed in 23mm too.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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aravilare wrote:
Edit 2: From comments by RR author (JarnoBierman) [references are to the original French test on the VFR being fast]: "Thanks for your link. This issue has now been cleared up a bit for me! 100% sure they changed the tread of the Record somewhere last year.
Look at my pictures and then your pictures... You have the version with the very smooth tread (almost like a latex tread). When you look at my pictures you'll see it has a textured tread just like all the new Veloflex tires released in Q3 2020."


Well... this is a bit annoying. Sounds like they made a super fast tire and then quickly modded it to make it slower. Just a tread texture and compound change? It's puzzling because the BRR test shows it to still be light and have thin tread and poor puncture resistance.

Photo on their site still shows smooth tread. For anybody who has bought these with the textured tread, I'd suggest some diplomatic bitching to Veloflex about this...


Last edited by: rruff: Apr 27, 21 11:24
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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So the Corsa Speed is now the champ again?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
So we have data on the old VF Record clincher (the one that’s been around for ages), the VF Record tubular with slight textured tread and the VF Record clincher with smooth tread. Both the old clincher and the tubular don’t have as good Crr as the Corsa Speed, but the smooth tread clincher is significantly faster. Aerodynamically the smooth tread clincher is very similar to a Corsa Speed in 23mm too.

Thank you for the clarification. It seems that they've swapped treads for recent production; any idea if this is going to continue and if you guys have been able to source any smooth tread VFRs recently?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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It would be more interesting if AeroCoach could retest using the current production VFRs with textured tread since it's highly unlikely that people will be able to obtain smooth tread VFRs going forward.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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This is all very intriguing, in a very bike dork sense. Until the dust settles, this seems like the time to brag about my 8 smooth tread Records sitting in their boxes while also noting that their magic properties will be wasted on a rider of my meager watts, and that's assuming they don't explode the first time I ride into a pebble on what are typically poor SoCal road surfaces.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
It would be more interesting if AeroCoach could retest using the current production VFRs with textured tread since it's highly unlikely that people will be able to obtain smooth tread VFRs going forward.


Don’t worry we’re on it!



AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
Last edited by: Xavier: Apr 28, 21 9:39
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Xavier wrote:
Don’t worry we’re on it!

Terrific 👍 Thanks a bunch.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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FYI, I just today received 2 VF Records from Italy, they look smooth as the proverbial baby's butt.

How much "tread" are the new ones supposed to have?

-bobo

"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [bobo] [ In reply to ]
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In Xav's picture, left is "smooth" and right is "textured".
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Wow I guess I have the textured. If they actually made a noticeable different in speed with that swap and then continued to sell them, that's problematic. I'll definitely be asking for a refund for mine if they are actually slower.

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Update:

The difference between the smooth Veloflex Record and the textured is ~0.000063 Crr, in favour of the smooth Record. Both are still significantly faster than Corsa Speed, Michelin Power TT etc., as the gap between the Record and the Corsa Speed is ~0.000475 Crr. At 45kph for a 75kg standardised rider therefore a pair of textured Records is around 0.6w slower than smooth (a pair of Corsa Speeds is nearly 5w slower). So IMO no need to worry which version you have, but if you have a smooth one then happy days.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the update! While we're into the numbers, what does the Crr of a set of the tubulars look like? If I recall, you said they weren't on par with the clinchers?
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [22kjackson] [ In reply to ]
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We need to do more repeats first, redo the glue job etc, just to make sure the data is sound but currently no it's not as good as the clincher version. If you're looking to use a tubular I'd go with a Corsa Speed at the moment.

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Great work. Thank you. Now I can place an order.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Used the same set of Veloflex Record clinchers for PoT half and then IMNZ - both bike courses have the usual amount of rough old kiwi chip (cheap) seal. No punctures and no issues. Apart from my overall lack of fitness (slowest IM bike split so far).

I'm no lightweight either...
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Can someone teach me what the brush with your hand thing is ?

I'm in the down to the chords camp too. I think a lot of people just don't pay attention to where they're riding. I'm pretty sure very few people do the "brush the tire" trick with their fingers when they run through stuff either. I was taught that early and it is pretty much reflexive at this point.[/quote]
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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Cookiebuilder wrote:
Can someone teach me what the brush with your hand thing is ?

a lot of people, after riding through a patch of broken glass, reach down and brush the tyres with their hand to remove any fragments that might have dug in enough to attach but not yet push their way through (especially the rear which you can't really be sure what path it took)
others will use a drink bottle to avoid the risk of cutting themselves on any glass present.

i don't personally do it as i think its pretty edge case in terms of glass that is attached but not all the way through, yet sticking out enough that you can remove it, getting to it before a few more wheel rotations push it in, not cutting yourself adding injury to insult... many cyclists swear by it though

i suspect that softer and stickier your rubber, the more relevant this is - some tyres are sticky to the point that glass will literally just stick on the surface until pushed through - records are likely to be in this category
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Just got a delivery of 3 Veloflex Records. I'm planning to use them for TTs and a hill climb age-group Strava KOM attempt. Specifically regarding the age-group KOM, the current KOM is at around 24km/hr. over about 6km for just under 14 minutes with an average grade of 6-7%. I previously did the KOM @ around 23.8km/hr. on a set of Specialized Turbo Cottons @305 watts for 14:05. (I'm 54yrs. old and weight 60kg, so these are decent numbers for my age-group/weight class). The crr watts that you tested were at 45kph. Any idea of the watt savings at a lower speed of around 24kph? Also of note, previously I used Vittoria latex tubes but have switched to the Vredestein Race latex tubes as I understand they are faster as well.

- Mike
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [MikeinCzech] [ In reply to ]
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Crr losses are typically assumed linear with speed... best guess. So about half the watts at 24 vs 45 km/hr. There might be an effect due to high torque as well.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks rruff! That makes sense.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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BRR updated their review of the VFR with the following:
BRR wrote:
Veloflex renewed all their tires in Q3 2020 and the Record now makes use of a "natural rubber and silica" compound instead of the "natural rubber exclusive" compound that was used before Q3 2020. The use of silica increases wet grip but it comes at the cost of a 10-15% increase in rolling resistance.

Interesting. Did you guys see any differences on the packaging?
Last edited by: aravilare: May 11, 21 14:38
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Dang, glad I got a pair early.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Hoping some other enterprising folks with rollers can confirm that the Crr has gone up significantly... or not.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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LAI wrote:
trail wrote:
I'm pretty daring, but Corsa Speed is about my personal limit for amateur TT courses.


I'm going to give them a go and see how they workout for me. I do have pretty pristine roads and I had zero flats on my Corsa Speeds. But it might be an expensive experiment that doesn't workout for me.

What has your experience been with them so far, with regard to puncture/flats?

Dr. Alex Harrison
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
I'm in the down to the chords camp too. I think a lot of people just don't pay attention to where they're riding. I'm pretty sure very few people do the "brush the tire" trick with their fingers when they run through stuff either. I was taught
that early and it is pretty much reflexive at this point.
Can you explain what this trick is?

Dr. Alex Harrison
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Hoping some other enterprising folks with rollers can confirm that the Crr has gone up significantly... or not.
Bumping this. @Xavier? Considering purchase.

Also buying corsa speeds 2.0 in the meantime...

Dr. Alex Harrison
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Ex-cyclist wrote:
I'm in the down to the chords camp too. I think a lot of people just don't pay attention to where they're riding. I'm pretty sure very few people do the "brush the tire" trick with their fingers when they run through stuff either. I was taught
that early and it is pretty much reflexive at this point.
Can you explain what this trick is?


Not really a trick... just rub your gloved hand on the tire while you are riding.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
LAI wrote:
trail wrote:
I'm pretty daring, but Corsa Speed is about my personal limit for amateur TT courses.


I'm going to give them a go and see how they workout for me. I do have pretty pristine roads and I had zero flats on my Corsa Speeds. But it might be an expensive experiment that doesn't workout for me.


What has your experience been with them so far, with regard to puncture/flats?

Only experience I have is mounting the textured version on my new wheel. The baby butt versions are still in the box. Haven't touched a bike all year, but for one memorial ride. I am, however, looking to change that and will be doing some testing here soon hopefully. Although, that all depends on my change of hobbies. So I wouldn't hold your breath. sorry.

My YouTubes

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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Just picked up some of the tubs and clinchers to roll at track nationals. Hopefully I didn't make a bad call here but have you all heard of the best glue for these? I assume the Vittoria Mastik will work but there could be an issue like the conti/vittoria mix that I'm not aware of.
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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Ohio_Roadie wrote:
Hopefully I didn't make a bad call here...




or....


Last edited by: rruff: Jul 2, 21 8:50
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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We use Conti exclusively

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [Xavier] [ In reply to ]
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Also, we've just retested the latest batch of Veloflex Records that we've been sent, and there's a ~7.5% increase in Crr compared to previous ones. The tread is a bit different on these. We contacted Veloflex and they confirmed that the tread is now done differently, but the difference is only 1.2w for a pair of wheels at 45kph (0.6w per tyre), meaning that they're still faster than Corsa Speeds.

We'll update our Crr chart online soon to reflect that

AeroCoach UK
http://www.aero-coach.co.uk
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Re: New Veloflex Records beat Vittoria Corsa Speeds [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
Ohio_Roadie wrote:
Hopefully I didn't make a bad call here...


*Pista Speed*

or....

*Pista Oro

I don't have the fitness for this half-cocked attempt to warrant/justify the Oro's. Maybe when elite nationals returns to LA and I actually train for it. I still have a speed glued on my 900 disc from a local TT last year so I might just roll that if it's in good shape but I wanted to make sure that I had backups in case I get a flat between IP, TP and points races.

Xavier wrote:
We use Conti exclusively

Thank you.
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