Best of luck with your son. (not qualified to give any other opinion).

Same as trail, I can’t give an opinion, just hope your son and family get through this. Best of luck.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Wow - scared me reading this. Happy to hear a positive prognosis and please keep us all posted.

I’m so sorry! I’m glad he’s getting medical care.

Just joining in on the glad for some good news posts.

Please keep us posted on his recovery

---

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix

Yikes hope he is ok. I’m not a medical person but just wanted to say best wishes to your family.

---

"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Glad you caught it- also have no medical knowledge but will send lots of healing vibes his way!!!!

Sorry to hear your son is 1 in a million.

I probably had myocarditis more than once my life....When I had bad left upper chest pain radiating down my arm and I went to my PCP, he sent me home with some aspirin and told me not to stress too much after a cursory exam and an EKG at the office didn't turn up anything.

So far it hasn't killed me, but there is certainly enough scarring on and in my heart if one would look. Both physically and emotionally.

Glad you got good healthcare.

That COVID thing may be a blessing in disguise in that more cases of myocarditis are recognized and are taking seriously.
.

Causality or not, I'm glad he's getting good care and hope he gets better. I have 16, 17 and 18 yr olds, I can only imagine how you feel...

My 17 y.o. daughter got the Pfizer too, even through I’m a Moderna man, so I think it’s just luck of the draw as to what brand you get...at least here anyway. I did have the opportunity (and passed) to get the Johnson on a walk in when they were trying to get rid of the supply. She is scheduled for shot two of Pfizer next week, so I’ll let her know about this and see what she wants to do. Thanks for sharing, and I hope he gets well soon!

Look at it another way - this could have saved his live, by identifying an underlying problem.

best of luck for him, and your family, keep us posted if comfortable

will be with a pediatric nurse practioner with Mass Gen, will ask her about your situation with the shot

Sent you a PM.

For the sake of discussion, would caution jumping to too many conclusions withtout all details. I have seen a few very sick folks in past couple of weeks, that unfortunately contracted COVID at same time as their shot, leading to hyperimmune reponse and hospitalization. I also wonder about folks that have severe post vaccine symptoms and whether or not they may have had previous COVID without knowing. I know this his second shot, so less likely the case.

I would suspect this gets reported to the VAERS. We report every potential event we see in the hopes of being able to build a robust database. Would also say that in all cirumstances, the risk of an immune reponse to any vaccine exists. The numbers related to COVID vaccines remain exceedingly low, but not zero.

Very sorry this happened to your family.

Best of luck.

I’ll pray for your son. I am glad he reacted when the pain felt different and you put yourself in good hands under doctors care.

I’ll be looking for your updates and thinking about you.

I'll echo the same sentiment at those above. Best wishes for your son's immediate and full recovery.

Viruses do cause myocarditis in young people. The prognosis can vary quite a bit from a mild injury that recovers quickly and quite fully to very serious outcome. We have always had various viruses causing myocarditis. I don't know much really about covid associated myocarditis. The heart attack from myocarditis hard to know what exactly that means. The injury caused by the virus is perceived as a "heart attack" but it isn't usually the typical blocked off small artery to heart muscle situation.

Unfortunately it is a very random thing that happens to otherwise perfectly healthy young people. I hope you son is one of the milder cases and recovers quickly.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Sorry you and your family are going through this.

Hope your son makes a full and swift recovery.

thank you for posting this, the experience is wrenching.

best wishes to your son and your family.

Not much to update as of this morning. which - is a very good thing.

About an hour after typing this out my wife returned home after a pretty hard day. we needed to spend some time together.

Agree with the posts that it is a great thing she acted quickly. One of the many great things about her is that she completed her first portion of her medical studies. She decided to not pursue after having our children and chose to be a mom. (She's German, so technically that means she passed the 'Physikum and was ready to continue with her Klinik.) We are very lucky to have her knowledge and background in addition to being a great mom and wife. In this case, she knew enough to just get to the ER with no further questions.

Speaking of the ER, there is much to be thankful there as well. When they first arrived, the ER also just thought it was indigestion and even joked that if it was a heart condition they'd all get famous. But, instead of treating and releasing, they treated and monitored and when his pain grew instead of diminished, they started more blood work and EKG and then noticed the irregularities in heart rhythm. - the heart attack as they called it - and as some say, 'shit got real.' They know they are not equipped for this and immediately reached out through their network and shared results - today's technology is so darn impressive. Apparently, due to the wait time for an available ambulance, he was about 10 minutes away from a helicopter ride to his current care.

Also agree to not jump too quick to the cause. I could have chosen a more LR worthy thread title to sensationalize - and I even 'buried the lead' into a mid-sentence third paragraph. The hospital he is in now are taking cultures and trying to see if he has active COVID or something else. They'll be able to rule those out over the coming days. But, not sure the like hood of a positive test or other virus, we've been following our at home protocols for a long time now -- He is not in school, not with friends, and pretty much just out of the house for his second shot.

We'll wait and see on this - and yes, I suppose that at the same time all the required reporting is happening and this may get looked into further if other items are ruled out.

Personally for me, not all that concerned with what 'caused' it. I'm more concerned with 'what now' . It does seem as if this is a rather mild and recoverable instance - at least that is the initial feedback from the cardiologist who has dealt with this condition before. Was this his reaction to the vaccine? If so, what would his reaction have been to the actual virus? Was this an underlying condition that was exposed because of the immune response to the vaccine? then again, that's 'good news' we found out this way and time. As, mostly, retired triathletes we are well aware from threads on that other forum of possible outcomes of this condition in otherwise normal fit people.

He does know that track season is over before it began. tough news on top of last track season and cross country being cancelled. But, I think we are all more concerned with long term outcomes and abilities to lead an active lifestyle.

As I learn more, I'll try to keep you informed - I may have my wife actually provide some of the medical stuff so that it does not first get washed through my misunderstanding before typing.

Scary for sure - my comment to him was that I was supposed to have the heart attack first and he needed to worry about me. But, now we can give each other pointers to get through this the next time around if needed.

Thank you all for the well wishes.

Glad to hear that he’s ok.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Soo scary! All the best to your boy for a full recovery!

A quick but rather substantial update.

Son is still in ICU. He is stable but not progressing. He is still in a great deal of pain and heart is still not functioning as it should.

Cardiologist is concerned, but positive he will get a grip on this. He also has ruled out other possible causes and has decided he is dealing with his first known case of myocarditis brought on by the second vaccine shot. So, although millions of doses without much of a negative response, for us, there was an unfortunate negative immediate outcome. All three of us, however, when faced with the what we now know would still have had him vaccinated.

My son was also told that life guarding this summer is off the table. The job is too intensive both mentally and physically. So, now summer employment is in question. We half-joked that he should start a go-fund-me page.

As already stated in the thread, just let this be a reminder that any chest pain should be treated seriously and get to the ER as quickly as possible.

ETA, specifically, this is believed to be his immune response to the vaccine, not necessarily the vaccine itself. That's likely a very important distinction and this seems inline with our experiences with his immune response in the past from either virus, bacteria, or other vaccinations.

I have a friend who works for the Montana lottery. Every week she calls people, and they are always surprised. She says that from her perspective there’s no reason for any surprise at all. It’s a lottery and someone is going to win.

I suppose the reverse is true for risks of bad medical outcomes. We were told in law school that medical malpractice relates more to regular bad outcomes than actual malpractice. Bad luck.

Start the gofundme for his lost summer employment. I’d be happy to chip in. Maybe your son will feel better knowing that we acknowledge his suffering, we appreciate him getting vaccinated, and we want to lift him up. The bad luck can stop.

Well said. I think the gofundme idea is great. The OP shared a very personal and important experience and I appreciate that. I also appreciate the son's initiative to get vaccinated and feel awful for his horrible luck.

Please let us know if the gofundme account happens and best wishes.

I'm sorry he had such a horrible reaction, that he is in pain, and I hope he is well soon. Thanks for sharing and I hope your family gets all the help and care you need both in the hospital, from real life people, and from the LR'ers. Keep us updated, please.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Thanks again for all the well wishes. A very special thank you to WannaB

He is now out of the ICU, but remains in the hospital under observation. Things are getting better which is very good news. Three to six months is the projected recovery time for him. that's the whole summer without being able to bike or run and no work either.

As his Doctor told him, he joined a very elite subset of people. .001% have had some type of reaction like this. I told him to never play the lottery - he used his one chance on this.

He did decide to set up a Go Fund Me to try and have people send him a funny joke in the comments or maybe recoup some of the losses of not having a summer job. Funny thing is that he can't send anything out via his social media - All his messages are deleted due to 'fact checks' and that his post must be spam or a con. I guess that what happens when you are in such a small group.

A very interesting thing he wrote is he feels people should still get vaccinated. He experienced one of the worst outcomes but maintains a position and still believes that others should still get vaccinated - but to pay attention to warning signs. I find that interesting when compared to another popular thread happening at the same time here in the LR.

I'm not going to post his gofundme link here. That was never the intent of this thread and it reminds me too much of my old days in auto sales. If you would like to read his version of this ordeal in his write up, send me a PM and I'll send you the link to his version.

That's good news

I'm very happy for your good news.

---

Tri or tri not; this is no du. (--- with apologies to Yoda.) Slow triathlete who survived Huntsville, Lelystadt, Colmar, Fontanil, and
Szekesfehervar/Lake Velence. Arbor hydration specialist in a kid's park in Monterrey 4 times in the 1990s (and in the pits in 1994).

So good to hear this.

---

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I’m so glad he’s doing better. Thank you for the update. Three to six months of no work and no play is such a bummer. But it sounds like your son has a really good attitude. So impressive!

I sent you a message b/c I’d like to hear his story and help your boy. Best wishes.

I'm glad to see that he's doing better.

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Late seeing this thread and hoping for the best for your son.

I was under the impression that the studies out of Israel were leaning towards a finding that the inflammation and myocarditis rates that they were seeing are not out of the norm of expectation.

In your son's case, is there a way to investigate or follow up if there is/isn't a connection to the vax?... Via monitoring/tracking during his next few months and/or working with specialists?

Again, hoping recovery continues and goes well.

I read your son’s gofundme write-up. He has the start of an excellent essay for college applications!

He’s right at the center of a lot of public health issues, including understanding the very low risk of bad medical outcomes, the social utility of vaccinations, public health messaging about risks and rewards, and a personal, life-altering medical event. He’s in the middle of a unique and profound Covid experience.

It’s a really interesting challenge to talk about this rare bad outcome that’s related (we’re probably still assuming) to the Covid vaccine. Right now, with Covid so politicized, that conversation seems hugely daunting. It’s the kind of conversation where you think, “boy, some whackadoodle could really run with this and do some damage.” But it’s real & true. We need to be able to talk about it.

Because it’s a big challenge and it’s a rare and unique experience, it’s rich for exploration. I like that your son wrote about it. I think that shows a confidence and courage to tackle tough issues. You should be proud of your boy!

I don’t remember when kids start working on college essays, but hopefully the timing of this is good.

I hope your son keeps his spirits up. I’ll post a message on his gofundme.

I'm happy to hear he's out of the ICU. Major bummer about the 3-6 months recovery time. Keep letting us know how things are, okay?
How are you holding up? Your wife? Any siblings? Take care of YOU, too. It's scary and hard on everyone when there's a major health event in the family. Lots of hugs.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Well, no dramatic heart-wrenching twist to the story. He was released from the hospital this afternoon! Visiting with the girlfriend and then he'll be back home later tonight. All in all, not a bad outcome and we are on to the next phase of recovery - for all of us!

Thought I'd try and follow up on a few comments in the thread.

As for the statement that these types of cases as identified in Israel .".were not out of the norm..' Again, we are talking an extreme small population, .001% IF tied to the vaccine. I'd call that way outside the norm - but possible.

I am not qualified to make the statement that this inflammation was caused by this second vaccine shot. However, the medical staff at an extremely well regarded hospital has made that statement. I'll trust that.

As for follow-up studies, again - not my area. I would suspect that there will be a high level of interest in investigating this issue further. If we are ever contacted by someone that wants to include him in a study, I'm sure he would want to participate and we would give our consent.

The comment that there are some whackadoodles that could run with this has been a very big concern. Prior to starting the thread I was worried that if misrepresented, this could potentially lead someone to not get vaccinated. However, that is juxtaposed with the feeling that I would like to share this experience with the LR community. If anyone knows someone of experiencing a sharp pain in the heart - shortly after the second shot - take this very seriously. There are some rather simple tests to be taken to determine what is happening to rule this out. I trust the medical community will continue to quickly learn and adapt and understand that although very rare - it is a possible outcome.

As for getting him to keep writing and/or an internship.
He's been sending videos to his friends and it's been fun to see his reactions, point of view, and updates - I asked him if he was going to find a more permanent place for them to exist and write more about his recovery. He's not yet sure. The recovery time this summer is not just about the physical exertion, it's about mental stress. So, his plan to take SATs this June has been dropped. He'll wait until October. But, an internship or work from home job is a great suggestion and something we will have him consider.

As for we parents and his sister.
What else is new over this past year!? This just seems to be one more crazy possibility that we could never have foreseen that was added to the list of crap to now deal with. His sister is taking her finals at the end of her freshman year in University. I chose to keep her informed and figured she is very well equipped these days to process news. She processed well, they texted a ton, all was good. My wife and I are in a good place. We're fortunate it was identified quickly and he was in immediate and tremendously capable hands to care for him. In fact, because he was the first and only case to date, he was poked and prodded by all the best doctors. He was a little prince - which always seems to be the case no matter the place.

That's about it. happy to respond to any questions or PMs if I can ever provide some information.

So good to hear that your son is out of the hospital and coming back home to you.
As a medical specialist it can always be tricky figuring out exactly what caused an event to happen, especially in this era of COVID and vaccinations and hyper-vigilance about potential side effects etc. In reality, none of that will change what happens from here for your son and it is best to focus on getting him back into a day to day life as he is able.
In terms of follow-up studies etc, I am presuming he is likely to have repeat echocardiograms to assess his heart function in the coming months (do you know if these showed any significant impairment?). The 3-6 months recovery time is honestly often a bit of a guesstimate, every patient is unique, the younger you are and the better your baseline level of function the sooner you are often back to normal. Take those estimates as a potential worst case scenario but also don't expect every day to be all roses and happiness.
I would love to read his gofundme if you would not mind sending me the link.
Best wishes from down under.

beyond all my other many questions, my one technical question is: is there an identifiable difference between a "natural" covid antibody and a vaccine-generated antibody? of course it's fair to generate a set of best practices after you get the vaccine. i was pretty wiped after shot #2, but i did run (short and slow) and swim (short and slow) the day after the shot. but i also wonder about long haulers, and i wonder if there are those who were symptom-light, and maybe didn't know they had the virus, who nevertheless suffered damage unbeknownst to them. i heard somewhere recently a speculation that perhaps a third of all in the US got the virus. i don't know if that's true, or if i misheard. i would like to be able to parse between a "we just don't know" heart attack, an actual, bona-fide vaccine-related heart attack, and a covid long-hauler heart attack. but after everyone gets vaccinated, if it's the same antibody regardless of whether it's covid-generated or vaccine-generated, it'll be hard to know.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

 Very good news!

I like when a story ends well !!!

I’m happy for you, your son, and your family. Good things.

I'm glad to hear he's home and that you and your wife and daughter are doing ok too.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Your questions ask for some very specialized information. I don’t know. I think testing to identify antibodies is done by taking a blood sample and seeing if the antibodies react to known antigens (invaders).

Because the Covid vaccines are made with actual disabled Covid cells, I would think your body’s antibodies created in response to the vaccine & infection would look and act the same. I don’t think they would be identified differently in the regular blood tests. Maybe the doctor identifies the natural/vaccine antibodies by asking you whether or not you’ve been exposed to known Covid cases or had the vaccine recently. Maybe your body is slower to make the millions of antibodies needed in a natural case of Covid than with the vaccine response. Maybe they can look at the number of antibodies and the onset of symptoms? I have no idea.

This is the science of infectious disease, which I think is super interesting. When we lived in Rochester, MN, my daughter had reoccurring intermittent high fevers. Like 103* for two or three days and then no fever for 5 days. It went on for about 2 months before I realized there was a pattern and we figured it out with the help of an infectious disease doctor. My daughter had pneumonia antibodies, antibodies for some sort of disease from cats, and antibodies for hand, foot and mouth disease. Her immune system was almost strong enough to handle them simultaneously, but not quite.

With heart attacks, I think it would be very hard to identify in a regular patient if it’s one thing or another. I’m sure lots of people with heart disease are getting the vaccine. Lots of people with heart disease are getting Covid, both serious infections and mild infections. Lots of people with unknown mild Covid infections and heart disease are getting the vaccine.

I think relying on studies of people whose health is known prior to the vaccines is the best way to assess vaccine risks. Working backward from a heart attack seems very tricky.

I’m not sure that knowing the cause of heart attacks in undetected mild Covid cases and the super rare vaccine cases versus other causes of heart attacks will materially affect the treatment.

The mRNA vaccines specifically do NOT use "disabled COVID cells".

None of the vaccines use "disabled COVID cells". That's not even a thing. A virus is not a cell.

I know this - but I was using CallMeMaybe's term... But regardless, none of the vaccines use anything related to the real COVID virus.

My bad.

Okaaaay. I’m sorry I’m such a fool. I know we had threads on how the vaccine was made.

Edited: never mind.

It's been a busy couple of days, but all is still as it should be here. A 17 yr old that has been relieved of all possible work chores around the house, limited school work, and just chilling with his girlfriend - does not seem like such a bad outcome right now. to heck with Ice Cream after having tonsils removed!

Once again, for the recent well wishes, thank you.

Amnesia, The cardiologist did not believe there was significant impairment nor would there be any long term issues. There was the myocarditis, a pericarditis (that was the source of most of his pain and discomfort), initially his blood troponin levels were through the roof, and there was concern over his lowered ejection fraction for a while. It was the last two that kept him in the hospital for a few days. Clearly, they resolved to a level of comfort and he was released.

He is scheduled to see his primary this week. He is scheduled for his first return visit to the cardiologist three weeks from now. So, his personal follow-up is all set. We just do not know, and have not yet heard from anyone, about a possible larger cohort study.

Slowman, for most of your questions I could only give a wild and biased opinion - not sure that would be much of a help. But, I do know the 'cause' of this 'heart attack' is still not definitive. As stated, pretty sure the medical staff ruled out a virus, other illness, or the 'heart attack' of reduced blood flow to the heart muscle. So, the most likely cause, for now, is to link this event to the second shot. Big pharma, not unlike Big tobacco, will find arguments to question causality between the second shot and the cardiac event. 'Common sense' is easy to tie those two events together, once other possible factors had been removed. Let that dance begin.

As medical professionals posters in this thread, and through PM, have recommended, we are not so concerned with what caused the cardiac event - that they chose to list as a heart attack. That's for other professions and experts to study and quibble. We will remain an N+1 family and just be concerned with his health and his recovery as prescribed and recommended by his medical care. At this time, my son is just choosing to hang low. He does not want to write about, post about it, be on tv about it, make a fuss about it. He just wants to try and get healthy, while still finding a way to shirk his way out of doing chores for as long as he can. He's resourceful - he'll find a way.

bless. Good boy.

That is all great news. Again, you are a wonderful family. Will be hopeful his recovery continues to go perfect.

And will be optimistic that in the end, this experience only serves to give him perpsectives and appreciations that shape the man he continues to become.

sweathog wrote:

x2

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

This popped up in my feed today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQKTBd_qH78&ab_channel=GoodMorningAmerica

Thank you and Spudone for posting. Interesting indeed.

As I am aware, I'm a little biased, and far from an expert to determine what I think caused this. Nevertheless, I do not believe this particular case was circumstantial. But, more importantly a pediatric cardiologist at a well respected teaching hospital also did not believe this to be circumstantial.

He's still deciding to just stay low-key on this issue and not get involved. He does not want the stress that would be associated with any advocacy.

He is doing well. His first follow-up with his cardiologist is this week. He's met with his primary once. He still complains of minor pain/discomfort this far removed from the event.

Right now, he is just trying to catch up with two weeks of missed school work. Although the entire school has been supportive, work still needs to get done.

He's also trying to trust his body again. As we were advised, this might be one of the biggest obstacles for him to overcome. We are walking each night just a little - just watched the sunset in fact.

I'm thankful for both the private messages and well wishes/advice in the thread. you've all been spot on with your advice and allowing my wife and I to be just ahead of the curve and have an idea of what might come.

OK, you guys got me curious. Some real numbers from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS):

There are reportedly 104 children age 0-17 who died from COVID-19 and 287 from COVID + Influenza from Dec 2020 to May 2021 (total 0-17 in the US is 72 million?).

In VAERS, there are 8 children (0-17) reported with Myocarditis/Pericarditis after COVID vaccination (a total of 288 cases for all AG).

Hmm, that really makes me scratch my head a little.... but 8 so far (we just started vaccinating age 0-17) is just too many for my taste.
.

5 million 12--17 year old children have been given the vaccine. Per NBS reporting the number of Myocarditis cases is normal.

. https://www.nbcchicago.com/...s-explained/2517513/

“What’s important to know and to recognize is that the rates that we’re seeing of myocarditis are no higher than what we would experience normally,” Dr. Ted O’Connell told NBC San Diego. “So, we don’t know if it’s associated with the vaccine or not.”

Yeah, whatever. I am certainly going to blindly trust the re-assurance of some news outlet and a TV doctor, when I have access to the actual data and can do my own analyses.

But agreed, for most, "News' is as good as gold or actual data.
Even if the good doctor states he doesn't know.

I agree with him about that he and we don't know.
..

This week’s updates for Connecticut Physicians, APRNs, PAs, and RNs:

NOTICE: The U.S. FDA has issued a letter urging healthcare providers to Stop Using Certain Syringes and Needles with Needle Safety Devices Manufactured by HAIOU

• The FDA received information about quality issues, including certain HAIOU needles detaching from the syringe after injection and other needle safety device failures.
• Stop using, remove from your inventory, and do not purchase HAIOU 1mL syringes with 25G and 23G with 1-inch needles.
• FDA and federal partners are working to identify where these configurations have been distributed and inform sites of the quality issues.

COVID-19 Epidemiology: Case rates continue to decline across Connecticut. Over 50% of sequenced SARS-CoV-2 specimens from Connecticut are the B.1.1.7 variant, which is more transmissible than the wildtype SARS-CoV-2 virus. Unvaccinated individuals remain at risk.
COVID-19 Clinical Resources: CDC has a webpage on Post-COVID conditions, also now included on their Clinical Care Quick Reference for COVID-19.
CDC has also published a case definition for MIS-A.

• MIS-A is Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Adults (MIS-A), a severe complication in adults infected with SARS-CoV-2 which can cause problems in different parts of the body such as heart, GI tract, skin or brain.
• Clinicians should reports both MIS-C and MIS-A to CT DPH by completing the Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome Associated with COVID-19 Case Report Form and calling (860) 509-7994. Please indicate that you are calling to report a MIS-C/MIS-A case and your call will be directed appropriately.
• As a reminder to all clinicians, MIS-C was added to the list of Reportable Diseases, Emergency Illnesses and Health Conditions in January 2021.

COVID-19 Vaccines: CDC’s Interim Clinical Considerations for COVID-19 Vaccination has been updated to include considerations for vaccinating adolescents.
CDC continues to monitor reports of myocarditis/pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination. No safety signal has been identified in either VAERS or Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD).

• Healthcare providers should consider myocarditis in an evaluation of chest pain after vaccination and report cases of post-vaccination myocarditis/pericarditis to VAERS.
• Symptoms include abnormal heart rhythm, shortness of breath, and chest pain.

Parents/guardians are encouraged to enroll adolescents in the V-safe After Vaccination Health Checker. Separate v-safe registrations for each adolescent can be made using the same smartphone.
COVID-19 Control Measures: Safe Travels!

• Providers can help patients understand the safest travel options for families and how to protect themselves and others when traveling outside of their community.
• This overview of CDC's travel guidance provides a quick summary of traveling safely and lists additional resources for planning a safe trip.

COVID-19 Testing: Not sure if it’s allergies or COVID-19 symptoms? Unvaccinated individuals experiencing cough, runny nose, sore throat or other generalized symptoms in the absence of sneezing or itchy/watery eyes should get tested for COVID-19. For a list of testing sites, patients can visit portal.ct.gov/Coronavirus/TestingSiteListings
Learning Resources to Share:

• A COCA call discussing Underlying Medical Conditions and Severe COVID-19 will be held Thursday, May 27 at 2pm.
• For a quick reference on CDC’s COVID-19 Website Updates, check out What’s New & Updated
• Check out Georgia Tech’s webinar series on FAQs About COVID-19 Vaccines that People with Disabilities Should Consider on May 26 at 3pm.
• For a list of healthcare professional educational materials for COVID-19 vaccination, check out CDC’s COVID-19 Vaccination Training Programs and Reference Materials for Healthcare Professionals

CT DPH Provider Call-in: Please join us this Friday at noon for updates and a Q&A session. Register at: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZIld-6rqzMuE9dMkSPTxj1d_VcGeyWMWKVK
Vivian Leung, MD
Infectious Diseases Section
Connecticut Department of Public Health


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From my inbox today---with continued bombardment of data...the weekly DPH update:

the key comment was 'no safety signal' yet-meaning, that the number of cases of myocarditis are not out of the norm and at this point, do not seem to be potentially associated with vaccinations, but we are all advised to continue to keep track and report to VAERS.

Please cascade and share. Published every Wednesday.
For all physicians and clinicians employed by or affiliated with Trinity Health.

May 28, 2021 │ 1:45 p.m.


Updates
CDC investigating possible rare heart inflammation side effects from mRNA COVID-19 vaccination among young people
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) are investigating a small number of cases of myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) and pericarditis (inflammation of the lining around the heart) among adolescents and young adults who received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer or Moderna). There is no similar trend among those who received the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine. CDC is still investigating whether these rare instances are related to the vaccine.
The cases were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). Most of the cases occurred among male adolescents and young adults 16 years of age and older. Symptom onset was typically within four days after the vaccination and occurred more often after the second dose than the first dose. Severity of symptoms varied. Most of the people who received medical care have responded well to medications and rest.
The CDC continues to recommend COVID-19 vaccination for people 12 years of age and older to prevent serious or fatal complications related to COVID-19.
Clinical Actions

1. Maintain a high index of suspicion for myocarditis and pericarditis symptoms in patients who may have recently received an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, especially in adolescents and young adults 16 years of age and older. Symptoms of these conditions may include:

· acute chest pain
· shortness of breath
· palpitations

Coronary events are less likely to cause these symptoms in male adolescents and young adults 16 years of age and older.

1. If these symptoms present, ask for:

· COVID-19 vaccinations history
· Relevant medical, travel, and social history

1. For patients with myocarditis and pericarditis symptoms who received the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine, consider obtaining an ECG, troponin level, and inflammatory markers such as C-reactive protein and erythrocyte sedimentation rate as part of the initial evaluation. In the setting of normal ECG, troponin, and inflammatory markers, myocarditis or pericarditis are unlikely.

1. For patients with suspected cases of myocarditis and pericarditis who received the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine, consult with a cardiologist for assistance with evaluation and management. Evaluation and management may vary depending on the patient age, clinical presentation, and potential causes of the findings.

1. Rule out other causes of myocarditis and pericarditis. Consider consultation with infectious disease specialists and/or rheumatologists to assist in this evaluation. Where available, evaluate for potential etiologies of myocarditis and pericarditis, particularly acute COVID-19 infection (e.g., PCR testing), prior SARS-CoV-2 infection (e.g., detection of SARS-CoV-2 nucleocapsid antibodies), and other viral etiologies (e.g., enterovirus PCR and comprehensive respiratory viral pathogen testing).

1. Report adverse events to VAERS, including serious and life-threatening adverse events and deaths in patients following receipt of COVID-19 vaccines, as required under the Emergency Use Authorizations for COVID-19 vaccines.

More Information

• CDC COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine Myocarditis Clinical Considerations
• NIH Materials on Myocarditis and Pericarditis
• American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology
• How to report to VAERS
• Frequently asked questions about VAERS reporting for COVID-19 vaccines VAERS – FAQs

For access to all posted COVID-19 documents, visit the COVID-19 Resources page.
For the latest updates on the COVID-19 vaccine, visit the COVID-19 Vaccine


Got another update---will keep you posted if things change...

https://www.cdc.gov/...ety/myocarditis.html

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/.../04/peds.2021-052478

Still watching...(took a while to find this thread...the LR is deep and scary...I don't really belong here...)

Thank you for those. Thought this would be a good time for an update.

That CDC information is pretty spot on for our issue. Interesting to see that it is not just limited to Pfizer - it seems both the mRNA types are being reviewed.

Although very scary at the time, there really was not that much 'care' involved. Yes, some pretty heavy duty pain meds (that brought their own sense of worry to introduce to a 17 yr old thrill seeker) But the inflation was never treated with anything more than standard NSAIDs.

A few follow-up appointments have taken place. We have another very shortly with the cardiologist that originally saw him. So far, all seems OK with his heart. There are no lingering issues, he is no longer experiencing any pain, and has been progressing with slight increases to cardio activities nicely.

Unfortunately for him, that means a partial return to chores. He has been back on dish duty, garbage duty, and carrying groceries. Still has a break from pushing the lawn mower and raking.

But, the good news - since he was fully vaccinated - he went to Prom. Stayed off the dance floor and decided to skip 'post prom' as he did not trust himself to not engage in so many of the great activities with his friends.

As stated, even with our experience we are fully supportive of vaccines and believe this particular vaccine itself to be safe. In fact, our daughter will receive her second dose shortly. I maintain a very simplistic and layman's stance that the issue stems from my son's immune response to the vaccine - not the vaccine itself. I'd trust that CDC is looking into the common characteristics (other than age/gender) of the cohort being reported.

We're monitoring closely the issue with boosters - as this will likely be our next issue down the road.

A final note, I had thought I stated this a little more clearly in an earlier post. In re-reading the thread, I don't think it's all that clear. I'll try again. Technically he did not have a 'heart attack'. The ER labeled this as such at the onset but, that is not there specialty. They are rural ER unit looking forward to re-attaching lost digits and limbs from farming accidents and perhaps this was stated to generate the need for expediency in transferring him somewhere. We continued to use the term as most non-medical persons can then have a very good idea of what took place. Technically, the thread title - and that CDC description are accurate descriptions of his 'case'. The inflammation of the heart muscle (which caused the irregular heart beat/low volume, elevated enzyme issues) and an inflammation to the outer lining of the heart (which was the major cause of the pain.) Sorry, if this caused any confusion.

Thanks again to the LR for shepherding a parent through a scary time.

Glad to see that everything is going well!

''Unfortunately for him, that means a partial return to chores. He has been back on dish duty, garbage duty, and carrying groceries. Still has a break from pushing the lawn mower and raking.''

Good for you! Most of the kids around here on Long Island wouldn't know what any of those are!!

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

so happy to hear a good update!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

This article from the CDC seems relevant.

Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines -U.S. CDC (aol.com)



As an adult I was vaccinated but I won't let my kids get vaccinated yet. These articles are not making feel at ease about having them vaccinated in the future either.

I am not asking this in a flip manner or trying to minimize this issue... do we know if any children have died from this? Or is it simply pain and hospital visits (not that either is fun or "simple").

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Germany's standing commission on vaccination (STIKO) has just (Bulletin 23/2021, 10th of June) recommend to not generally vaccinate children 12-17 at this point in time (unless a pre-existing condition would warrant protection at all cost).

The reason being for not having enough conclusive data available to make a comprehensive risk assessment and recommendation.
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Just FYI.
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Interesting. Do you happen to have a link to this announcement?

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Sure, hope your German is decent, but is all over the international press/news already:

https://www.rki.de/.../2021/23/Art_01.html

Good lord. That is not good news. A major country today now saying kids should not get vaccinated unless a pre-existing condition. That should be all over the news tonight.

I posted something similar, and agree with it. But deleted it because I think we should respect the OP and leave this thread to be about his son and not a vaccine squabble.

I'm fine having the squabble in another thread.

That’s a very fair point. I’ll delete my answer.

Trail: thanks - but this IS the LR, I'm all for squabbling. squabbling = knowledge

Francois: there was no real reason to delete a fact based post. you are correct - this is an extremely rare occurrence. Although I trust the medical professional who made the statement in our case - we are not 100% sure this event was caused by the second vaccine shot - we'll never be certain of that.

BLEP: There are people better qualified than I to respond - my understanding is zero deaths because of this due to the Vaccine. It's a 'mild case' from their vantage point and a few day hospital visit - just as we experienced. I will say that our vantage point of 'mild case' is still rather scary. However, I also understand that if this issue is caused by the virus, the chances of this not being a 'mild case' are higher and the treatment regimes are more complex/aggressive and long term negative outcomes are more prevalent. In other words, deal with the issue from the vaccine and not the virus.

SDG: Not sure that should be the take away from this thread. As stated by the various medical experts - and they ARE experts on this forum. The likelihood of a negative reaction to the vaccine is very, very, small. I'll assume you found your way here to the LR via that 'other' forum. So, I can also assume that life-long fitness is exceptionally important to you and something that you would wish for your children. My biggest fear for my children was the 'long haul' variant and reading about those that have lost the ability to exercise and enjoy life as they once knew it. Given the choice of my son being in the hospital for 4 days and skipping this track season out an abundance of caution - or having him contract COVID and perhaps be a long-hauler, I'll take the brief, but scary, hospital visit every single time. As an FYI - my son will to.

As for the German announcement - from my reading of the bulletin and understanding from relatives I agree with Spudone - again no need to apologize. My 83-yr-old MIL just received her first dose a little over two weeks ago and not for the lack of her not wanting to be vaccinated.

 
This is great. I currently have a patient who is on heart transplant list because of viral myocarditis. 28 years old. Not from Covid it occurred prior to covid being a thing like in early 2019. I have no idea how the smart people sort out baseline cases of viral myocarditis vs those caused by vaccination. All the cases of viral myocarditis my pts have had (not many) over the years (30) I cannot remember the specific virus being identified. Glad your sons outcome was much better.

:)

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I’m really glad your son is doing better. I have an older one (fully vaccinated) and two little ones who won’t have the opportunity until later this year. Their pediatrician is also a colleague who has a joint appointment in our department and works closely with Dr. Sonja Rasmussen who has published a lot the past 15 months in covid and who leads precision public health at our institution. We will get our little ones vaccinated as soon as possible.

But I completely understand the worry. I worry for them ALL the time. Being a parent is the best and hardest job there is.

I think you are out of line to insinuate I had any other intention but to inform about the newest development on what other countries decide in regards to vaccinating juveniles.

Granted, this may not be the best thread for posting it (emotional bias and such), but that conclusion was reached also factoring in the myocarditis uncertainty, so I think it is relevant.

Eyeballs is good (I am sure the OP agrees). But unfortunately that simple factual post also gets the eyeballs of those who can't help themselves to behave like immature juveniles, at best.
That's ok. I can ignore that. It is part of the deal to be subjected to the vomit from biased judgemental zealots.

What is more concerning (and what I can't let slide) is that you make up some story about what the factual bulletin actually states.

In fact, what you made up about the bulletin and about the current stance of the Robert Koch Institute (equivalent of CDC) is in no way even remotely close to the truth.

So my perspective who here smears feces all over the place doesn't paint a pretty picture about your house.
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Regardless of what you think of others in this thread, I’d suggest you delete your rant to keep the discussion on point. I’m sure we can all agree that a father and his son are far more important than any of this.

Update


CDC Reports Higher-Than-Expected Number Of Myocarditis Or Pericarditis Cases Among Young People Who Received COVID-19 Vaccine
Reuters (6/10, Erman, Maddipatla) reports, “Preliminary findings from two vaccine safety monitoring systems suggest a higher-than-expected number of cases of heart inflammation after the second dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines in young men, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said on Thursday.” According to the CDC, over half of “myocarditis or pericarditis cases reported to the U.S. Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System after patients had received either the Pfizer/BioNTech, or Moderna vaccines were in people between the ages of 12 and 24,” who made up less than “9% of the doses administered.”

Public Health Advisers To Meet To Discuss Potential Link. Bloomberg (6/10, Griffin) reports that on June 18, “U.S. public health advisers will meet to discuss a potential link between Covid-19 shots that use messenger RNA technology and heart inflammation.” So far, “the CDC has identified a total of 216 cases of heart inflammation after the first dose of an mRNA shot, and another 573 cases after the second dose” with “475 cases identified among those under the age of 30.”

They don't say that kids should not get the vaccination! They are saying that right now, children with pre-existing conditions should get it or on an individual basis. This recommendation comes after weeks of German news headlines about how the Health Ministry is not prepared to start offering vaccines to teenagers when they don't have enough for the adult population.

Germany follows the advice of EMA. STIKO has no authority.

Although it’s necessary to consider this seriously, the alternative is worse. Also, this is observational in nature with several potential biases that could explain the higher than expected reports in VAERS.

What is the baseline rate of myocarditis and pericarditis in this age group? I'm curious what the % increase over baseline is

Few epi study looking at incidence of pediatric myocarditis but the estimates are between 1 and 2 per 100,000. One Finnish study puts it at 1.95/100,000 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5721735/)

Currently, we have nearly 6M vaccinated kids 12-17yo and 7 confirmed symptomatic myocarditis post 2nd dose of mRNA vaccine (https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/.../04/peds.2021-052478).

For pericarditis, the epi data are sparse as well, but a bit higher. Roughly 5-10 times the incidence of myocarditis in pediatric population (can't recall exactly).
Of the 7 cases, they were all myocarditis.

Not sure for the 18-30 or so age group. Probably easier to look at as there are better epi studies given the higher incidence of peri and myocarditis.

I agree whole-heartedly. This is not a recommendation to NOT get vaccinated, just updating regarding incidence and possible association of covid vaccination with myo/peri-carditis. We are obviously not talking about covid infection related cardiac issues, which is an entirely different conversation, as you know.

'Dad's' just want to know...


I am not an epidemiologist, just a regular clinical, invasive, non-interventional cardiologist...
From 'Up To Date':

Pericarditis:
Acute pericarditis is the most common disorder involving the pericardium. Epidemiologic studies are largely lacking, and the exact incidence and prevalence of acute pericarditis are unknown. However, acute pericarditis is recorded in approximately 0.1 to 0.2 percent of hospitalized patients and 5 percent of patients admitted to the emergency department for nonischemic chest pain.

—In an observational study from an urban area in northern Italy, the incidence of acute pericarditis was 27.7 cases per 100,000 persons per year

—In an observational study from Finland that included 670,409 cardiovascular admissions to 29 hospitals across the country over a 9.5-year period, the standardized incidence rate for pericarditis requiring hospitalization was 3.3 cases per 100,000 person-years

Myocarditis:
In the 2019 Global Burden of Disease report, the rate of myocarditis was 6.1 per 100,000 (95% uncertainty interval [UI] 4.2-8.7 per 100,000) in men and 4.4 per 100,000 (95% UI 3.0-6.3 per 100,000) in women between 35 and 39 years.

The incidence of myocarditis according to International Classification of Diseases diagnosis codes was 22/100,000 or approximately 1.5 million cases in the 2013 world population.

I've also added the (even scarcer) data for pediatrics population, with even lower rates (obviously).

that's very kind of you-many thanks...almost makes jumping into the deep end worth it...


I am aware that there are several (many?) who appreciate my insights coming from a cardiac perspective, so I look over here in the swirling waters from time to time, despite my fear

This place can be a bit of a cesspool, but it's not all that bad.

I appreciate you taking the time to come provide us with some facts and to share your knowledge

I'll pile on the 'thanks for posting' despite the aversion to the LR. Very insightful.

Sweathog,

Didn’t read all the replies but saw this article this morning and thought of your son. Hope all is well with you son and fam.

https://www.foxnews.com/...on-rare-heart-issues