Released 12 months after TriRig Alpha One...super unique. Looks like a nice bar though.

It does look very nice. Perhaps it has different features than the TriRig version?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I really dig these, and I think a lot of thought has gone into the shape of the aerobar extensions. What is the approximate cost? Couldn't find that info on the site.

WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO RELEASE THE ARM CUPS???????

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmtoScAFx-2/?taken-by=51speedshop






Looks like same bar they have used with factor for the TT bikes

I get that you could see it this way...it did take him a long time to bring these to market...but he had these on Factor bikes in early 2017...so I think it was a unique idea...it wasn’t “born” from seeing anything from tri rig...I don’t believe

I know I saw images of this bar back in May of 2017 on the factor bikes...

I don’t get the hype with these extensions...they look nice and I’m sure they are nice but they pretty much look like....wait for it....extensions

Does anybody else think that 110mm rise with flat armrests is a little too much?

Reminds me of the Felt Bayonet 3 Devox...
Great bar!

I have evo110 on my vuka stealth without any issues and you can only add about 3° of tilt up or down and it's perfectly fine for me

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Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!

YES!

These look Super interesting and timely since I'm thinking about building up a new bike.

Any idea on when they will actually be available for sale?

Any other specs you can share? i.e. weight?

"110mm rise to promote aerodynamics" is probably not true most of the time. I am in the Desert Dude corner on this one after listening to him for years and seeing it with my own eyes in the tunnel a couple weeks ago. Higher hands are slower for 80% of triathlon speed riders. Now, as a fitter, higher hands are almost universally more comfortable, but I have scaled back a bit and now try to limit riders to 3-5 degrees of tilt and only if they are significantly more comfortable there than flat.

On the high hands issue - I know that higher hands might be slower, but besides comfort, isn’t it also easier to faciliate a “shrug” with the hands/arms angled slightly up? My thought - based on fit changes and speed increases this year - is that if you’re getting your head significantly lower than you’re probably more than offsetting the increases drag from higher hand position.

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___________________________________
MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

“Triathlon speed riders”. So would this mean that a 30mph wind tunnel would not be valid for slower riders? As in, “the air flow at 30mph reacts differently than the air flow at 20mph”? Like, “at 30mph, hands high pushes the air around your body but at 20mph, the air reattaches before it gets to your body”?

Yes, lots of questions and assumptions without being a physicist like many people on this forum.

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Alex Arman

Strava

Different yaw angles at 20mph than at 30mph.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

110mm tested fastest for me. It is not really a very extreme hands high position. But it is about the max you can go with and still be UCI compliant.

But you do need to find a way to angle the arm rests, I bought some 10 degree wedges from a chap in the UK who 3D prints them for most of the common base bars. The wedges made the 110mm rise very comfortable.

Huh. I'm trying to square ^that^ generalization up with the generalization ("all" ... "certainly" ... majority" ... etc) from ERO at http://www.ero-sports.com/...r-more-comfort-speed:

All the aero testing we've conducted with different arm angles, there's certainly no doubt the majority of athletes, the overwhelming majority, in fact, find an aerodynamic savings from an upward tilt to their forearms. Sometimes it's a modest gain; other times, the gains are quite significant...almost unbelievable. I decided to test different forearm angles for myself. Below you'll see the three different arm positions I tried both for comfort and aerodynamics.


Help?

That's what I mean. If they are going to have 110mm extensions, the wedges should be standard.

The purported reason for the discrepancy is that Jim tests only on the track at low yaw, and "high hands" are not beneficial at higher yaw.

Oh now you've gone and done it--bring on the yaw debate.

I asked Jim if he could explain in the Rohan Denis thread after winning the tt world title why the cyclists with limit fit restrictions why they seemed to be adopting raising the hands more so than the top Ironman athletes but he chose not to respond. I'm curious because I've just gone up and won't go back down more based on comfort.

1. it's more comfortable

2. it's faster, for some

3. it "shortens" the arms, ie. they're not quite as maxed out on the UCI reach requirements. There's a stack limit too though

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

raising the hands in and of themselves is not the point. That's why high hands are slower for most.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

One thing to consider is that part of that fit restriction is on reach. It's pretty severe IMO if the rider is over 6'. I'm 6' and with level forearms I want a lot more reach than the UCI regs give me.

I understand that but why aren't more of the top Ironmen going up? I thought it may be due to generating power as it took me a while to find a good power producing position as I seemed to lose that locked front end to you core as the arms raised. If you look at the front page article Skipper has the highest hands and Lange about next. Sebi and Frodo still quite flat. Ryf was flat being a power rider and Charles raised being a less power rider. I'm figuring power production is becoming the major factor over the longer distance?

seems like half the battle is being born lucky. I have a long torso and would *never* fit on a UCI legal bike

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Power? What has that got to do with forearm angle?

Hand height / forearm angle is definitely worthy of experimentation on an individual basis. Balancing low yaw and high yaw aerodynamics. Comfort. Ease of shrug and height of head. It all plays in. I am a 'slightly up as a starting point' place with my fits. Most riders like that for comfort and it often helps with the shrug and lowering the head. But, if they can shrug and lower the head with flat forearms, maybe we defer to that. For sub 30mph riders, I am keeping the forearms as flat as possible while remaining reasonably comfortable and reasonable shrugged. If 2 degrees of tilt drops the head an inch, I'm probably keeping the tilt.

It's great we have so much testing and data coming in these days. It makes it more and more possible for a competent fitter to take a rider to 95% of optimized, while developing a good understanding of the hierarchy of questions to ask during formal testing.

As I raised my arms I found it harder to lock the front end together hands/elbows/shoulders to the core and generate power. That is why cyclists in the past or even triathletes seem to have lower below their elbows. Look back to Ullrich or Cadel Evans. Pure power was the main focus.

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Jan+Ullrich/2005+Tour+de+France+Stage+Twenty+Time+Trial/hhaefBlZ0DC


https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/icons-cycling-jan-ullrichs-bianchi-walser-time-trial-bike-304518


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/2012-tour-de-france-gets-longer-time-trials/

My core is pretty relaxed in a TT, and I can't imagine what I'd gain by tensing muscles that aren't needed to make the pedals go around. And the tilt of my forearms has zero to do with that anyway!

I feel more stable (and relaxed) with hands tilted up. Otherwise I need a good grip on the bars to keep from sliding forward. Which gets back to unnecessary muscle tension...

I am sure everyone is different and why I am asking the 'experts' the question why the pros still seem to run flat bars and only my assumptions and findings. I find I am not overly tensed but I need to feel everything is locked from my hands to my hips for pedalling efficiency. My last IM I had tilted the bars up for the first time but found with fatigue my power dropped as I had lost that sensation and you are relying on core muscles only not a locked foundation. It took some playing around to feel I had everything locked together again and the hands raised. Now it feels more effortless to maintain what seems my standard race power.

I don't know what exactly you mean by a "locked sensation" but I suspect it can be achieved by other positional refinements.

I'm not here to argue I just want to know why more pros don't have elevated hands and you're not helping. If it is supposed more aero then why aren't all pros riding with more angled forearms. But yes I found by relation of elbow pad angles to hand hand/bar angles how to achieve that sensation. Much the way Geraint Thomas and Sky manufacture their bars.

Previously it was supposed to be more aero. Then it got tested a lot and we found out that was usually wrong. Unless you go 32mph or ride with really low yaw all the time. Then it was usually right.

Thanks for your input. Have you looked at power generation in relation to your aero testing with tilted forearms much like opening or closing hip angles and the optimisation for a best overall fit? I'm guessing everything becomes a trade off aero, power, zero yaw, higher yaw...

Thanks for this. Guess it’s time to update my thinking around this (and get to an Aerocamp.)

Adaptive Human Performance (AHP) in Australia sells 51 Speedshop cup and wedge package:

https://www.adaptivehp.com/products/cups

51 also just posted a release date for their arm cups:

https://51-speedshop.com/pages/51-arm-cups

Finally! No price though :/

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Matt

my wife purchased these and the only issue is the white hash marks for length are not printed correct, as one extension was different than the other extension i.e. if you used the "same" hash mark, they were off considerably... Wasn't hard to use a tape measure, however for the amount of $$ you would think this would have been figured out...

I'm way more interested in if/when the Mono-Riser Aerobar system will be available for purchase and how much they will weigh.

Does anyone know anybody that actually works there? Would be great if you could convince them to engage the ST audience and answer questions... Most likely many of the early adopters of their products are already here on these forums and future customers will find these threads through google searches, etc.

Any idea what the max pad reach (to center of pad) and minimum stack (as TriRig defines it) is?

And I'm 6'4" and could get halfway to superman within UCI regs. I do take an exemption at the bars, but don't use all that much of it.

Wasn't the pre-order set for today? I went in ready to order and noticed it was pushed back to the 25th.

Yup

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blog

Yes, sorry...I'm traveling and needed a few extra days to get the page setup.

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

Thanks for the update. I'm traveling on the 25th, hopefully there's plenty to order in case I have trouble reaching the website from the airport.

Arm Cups look like they are available for pre-order. $80. Ship mid November

Similar price to TriRigs ergo cups but above the Zipp Vuka and some good PD cups. Decisions, decisions...

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Matt

This is a nice feature for a fast dismount into T2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs2xsMtqR1E

On a more serious note, does ST know why they failed?

Looked to me that bolts weren't tight, he hit the bump and they came loose then shit hit fan.

This is old news on I think another thread but it seems the team mechanic wasn't aware that as he raised the bar adding spacers/risers, he needed the correct length bolt being a longer one to engage enough thread. Seems they may have raised the bar for correct position and had enough thread to engage the fastener nut/tapping but under shock load there was not enough thread I'm guessing stripping out and the rest you can see. Mechanic error...

P.S. Found it... https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...r_System_P6298425-3/

Good find. Seems like a rookie mistake

Lower speed ---> lower Reynolds number ----> later boundary layer detachment. Depending on shapes, the difference in the magnitude of the change in location of BL detachment can be greater for one shape than another as you go from 30 mph to 20mph. That difference can be big enough to change which shape is faster at the different speeds but its unusual for that to happen accidentally. But it certainly could and does happen sometimes.

The F1 guys who designed that aero field testing gear were talking about designing the rear splitter on the car to stall at Reynolds numbers associated with fast straight aways to reduce drag, but to reattach after they slow down to take a turn so it would provide the down force. So in that case at higher speed it has a significant reduction in drag but at lower speed it has highly negative lift (which increases drag). Pretty nifty.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

It’s here! https://51-speedshop.com/...iser-aero-bar-system

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Yeah...got mine a few weeks ago...really nice looking product...so easy to build/adjust. Waiting for a frame that is being painted before I can install...

Umm it’s been “here” for weeks. Losing your touch!!

This is a nice looking bar. Well done Matt! Pricey, but not a lot more than the 3T Brezza II Limited I bought back in 2010 for my bike. Although it looks like this one is just better from the cups on up. The adjustability along beats the 3T dollar for dollar.

Umm https://www.instagram.com/...igshid=1jizpq28jwdt3

I haven’t lost anything

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I’m too lazy to do the search but they had a (I think) instagram posting probably mid November announcing this. I exchanged a couple emails with them at that time about the bars. Anyways, glad to see these finally came to market!!

Yes they did. That’s when I created the thread. Today was the official launch! Quit being a lazy lawyer and read 😂

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Heh heh, why? You did it for me! ;)

Does anyone know if the DI2 box can be hidden in the bar?

I don't think so, based on this assembly page:
https://51-speedshop.com/...-system-instructions

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Matt,

The cups being sold separately on the website appear to be different than the ones being sold with the aerobars (4 v. 3 “columns” of holes). Is there a reason?

If you had contacted them and asked to be put on their notification list...you got a bonus...

They emailed mid-November that they were doing a pre-launch sale for everyone on th3 list...I had mine delivered before thanksgiving.

The cups are different than their generic cups...and I believe the reason is that their separate cups ar3 designed to fit un multiple brand of bar mounts...

It was a long wait from the first image I saw of these when he did them for the 2017 Tour de France...but I think they are worth the wait. All the pieces that matter to me seem very well designed and constructed...I can’t wait to get them on my bike when I get it back from the painter.

?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Does anyone know if there is a magic tilt degree number / higher hands? I am maxed at my tilt on a speed concept and was looking for more tilt / higher hands simply to make it easier to hold my head lower. In the velodrome testing I did the higher my hands went the more my CDA dropped, but now this thread is saying that could just be all that the yaw angle is so low at the velodrome.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

I started this thread to see if I could get some discussion going on this exact topic. However, the main individual (desertdude) that suggests high hands isn't all that it's cracked up to be for ~85% of folks didn't respond. I think if all you do is raise your hands it's much less likely to help, but as you are doing it in an effort to improve your position (e.g. head drop, shoulder width, etc.) then I think it's a benefit.

I plan to test changing just hand position in the tunnel this spring to see what it changes in regards to my position and drag.

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My YouTubes

They actually did tell me that around 8 degrees tested best most often...

Looks like Mr. PennBen made his drive by character assassination and then deleted it. As if we should take anyone seriously that can't even spell the name of the supposedly aggrieved company correctly.

Its a really great question and I think its a really hard one to answer. You would have to test at diff yaw angles then each race would need to adj based on wind that day. But I do think if getting your hands higher allows you to hold your head tucked in better that must help reduce drag.

For me specifically I cant tuck my head in near as well with a flat bar. I have had limiting factor of the Trek Tilt but with the 51ss extensions I should be able to get them just a touch higher which I was hoping might make the head position even more comfortable.

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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

It can NOT be hidden in the stem. We considered making this a design input, but decided not to as we would have needed to make the stem longer and potentially compromise the structural integrity of the bar/stem. So, we decided to allow for the junction or blip box to be mounted just behind the mono-spacer. The other option is to run the wires out the back of the stem and into a bento box.

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

Both cups have the same shape and pad, but the cups being sold separately on the website will fit on most flat mounting aerobars on the market. Basically, the bolt pattern is different in order to accommodate various bolt sizes and spacing patterns.

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

I have been checking out a set of these. They look pretty cool and I have heard they are comfortable.

Matt, can you run the front brake cable through the stem 'a la tririg'?

Love your bar and might consider it for my old shiv. I think a few photos of clean set ups or possible routing diagrams would be neat on your website.

Yes, there is an exit for the front brake cable on the center underside of the basebar.

We will have more images once we have more clients installing the bar. You can see how the bar is setup via the installation guide on the website.

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

ANy way to get a base bar only which would fit on bikes like a Felt IA disc or QR PRSix?

Matt, do you have any information on where the base bar positions in relationship to the top center of head tube. Unfortunately, I have to ride around 5 miles in heavy traffic and around potholes to go to my cycling route. I feel far safer on the base bars vs. in pursuit during this segment.

There is a 20mm drop from center. Then the pursuit position has a 5 deg up tilt with shaping meant to provide a secure and confident grip to aid in handling while riding on the basebar.

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Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook

I think this is answering the question I was looking for information on. If i compare this to the alpha X system am I correct that the base bar grips will be lower (20mm) than on a straight bar like the Alpha X or is the stem point on the 51SS higher thus ending in the same spot at the bullhorns?

what is the current availability of the 51SS? are you shipping now? if not, when would you anticipate to be fulfilling orders?

thanks