buy something.. problem solved.

A bit of an over response over an isolated incident IMHO. The guy apologized for staff. That should have been enough. PC is getting a bit ridiculous.

Agreed. I will never understand holding an entire corporation responsible for the foolish actions of a single ignorant junior manager, especially when the corporation removed the problem employee(s).

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I have never understood the term "racial tolerance," and I have been working in this area for 20 years. I agree with you, it sounds ridiculous. We don't "accept" or "embrace" or "welcome" diversity, we "tolerate" it. WTF???

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Pay the wifi tax already

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Seems like the case of setting the bar low enough that it should easily achievable.

For a trump-ballsack washing, tatted up lawyer-type, every once in a while you say something that is pretty intelligent. Tolerance my ass.... tolerance does not equal acceptance, respectfulness, or any of those other things that we expect of each other in a civilized society. It's a ridiculously low bar, not something that one should aspire to. You should already be there.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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It's almost certainly an anachronistic holdover from the civil rights era, where tolerance was a reasonable standard to aim for. We just haven't updated our file, or paid enough attention to the language to make the change.

I mean, people still think it's rude to not say "god bless you" after they sneeze. We're not so good at paying attention to the meaning of words and why we use them. We're just creatures of habit.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

That’s what I was thinking, basically you don’t have to like them but legally you need to tolerate them.

if Starbucks has figured out an impactful way to educate ppl on racial bias in a single afternoon I hope they share their notes with the police
@PiaGlenn

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

They aren't educating people on racial bias. They are showing people how to tolerate "those people".

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I thought it was called "sensitivity training" now?

Not only that, but Starbucks has been ahead of the left-wing curve in preaching and celebrating diversity in most aspects of their business for years. I worked there briefly in college and was struck by how much of their staff training was dedicated to things like racial tolerance. That was 14 years ago, before diversity for diversity's sake was "cool".

A SJW friend of mine commented on FB that while the closure of 8000 stores was a step in the right direction, that Starbucks should have been providing this training before hand to avoid such situations. If ever there was a comment that deserved a "wow. Just wow."...

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Watch it buddy, you're lucky we tolerate you around here! :-)

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Long Chile was a silly place.

My issue is the way the media uses this incident to get to a "chicken little the sky is falling" moment. This is a direct quote on the cover of today's online Washington Post:

The scene of two black men in handcuffs being led out of a Philadelphia shop by police last week delivered a reminder of pervasive bias that can affect even the most mundane activities, such as meeting someone for a coffee.


If this type of bias is so pervasive then why is this kind of thing even news?

I guess the insideous logic here is that as long as the behavior is considered bad, what's the harm in overstating its "pervasiveness"? And, actually, I could agree with that kind of logic if this was an issue that wasn't getting any attention. But we all know that isn't true. Now the overstating is becoming just the worst type of provocative fiction.

I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Are you correcting Tolkien? Seriously?

heathen.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

"Cart blanc" - JSA

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

JSA only speaks Freedom.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Because the bias doesn't normally result in the extreme level of there being arrests. It's the bias that's pervasive, not the men being led out of Starbucks in handcuffs.

No sir, the problem isn't solved by buying something.

That's exactly what I was going to say! Thank you!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

"If this type of bias is so pervasive then why is this kind of thing even news? "

Before I get driven off in a "Barry is calling everyone a racist" tirade, I would like to point out, again, the posting history here.


Lots of complaining about how annoying it is that white people have to deal with minorities and their complaining.
Almost no talk about how annoying actual racism that minorities have to deal with is.

One of the arguments used was that, "well, racism is just so obviously bad and we all know that it happens all the time that there's just not anything to talk about."


Now that we're actually talking about it (not really.....it was used as a segue for the use of the term "tolerance," but at least most people agree that tolerance is not good enough), you've just spoken out of the other side of the mouth. "Well, if its in the news, it must not be that common, otherwise we'd never talk about it."


Black people have to deal with racism, all the time. Accept it. Learn from it. Be on the right side of history.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

My god that was perfect.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I'm not particularly good at math, so, I'm pretty sure that's a compliment. Thank you.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Honestly - what conversation about actual racism has to take place here? There is no debate that what happened was wrong. People in the store stood up to the cops for the black guys. The employee was fired. There is a pretty general agreement that what happened, shouldn't have.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

What, objectively, did happen? I've been buried at work so I haven't done my own diligence yet.

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War is god

Two black guys were waiting in a Starbucks for a friend to arrive.

White manager called the cops to have them removed.

Cops show up, claim the black guys are loitering and ask them to leave.

A few people see what's happening and protest to the cops. By this time, the black guy's friend has shown up.

Can't recall if they were arrested or just kicked out, either way, pretty disgusting behavior from the store manager, and the cops.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

A supervisor followed Starbucks policy. Now its going down the path like Evergreen college did.

Not uncommon if its a busy place and you are just sitting without ordering. I see it at the Starbucks that is closest to me, but they are usually asking college and high school kids. It is a place of business. Did the manager ask if they are going to order? How long were they waiting there?

If I read the couple responses right after yours and other social media I have to doubt that the general agreement is not as general as one may think.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

It's a fucking coffee shop. Starbucks actually markets itself as a meeting place for business, social gatherings, etc. Kicking people out for loitering??

It was a business meeting between professionals. I doubt the guys were waiting long, but who knows.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

The point is... white people do this all the time. And they never have the cops called on them.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Certainly not universal though. I had friend post a meme on Facebook about it which led to a whole back and forth by a bunch of people (that I don't know). Anyway, there seems to be side out there that basically feels that a) it's the black guys fault for causing trouble by not just leaving b) the racial division in the country is made worse by making issues over stuff like this.

They appear to basically argue that things have gotten better for black people so they are just trouble makers by not being happy about that.

They don't? How do you know that? Maybe they do and people don't film it.

Huh, if its a meeting place for professionals Starbucks should consider selling coffee and snacks. They could make a business out of it and go public.

How do you know this? And if cops had to remove a couple stubborn white dudes would this make national news?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That's what Panera is for.

Jinx!

I've been to Starbucks. I have seen people sitting there for hours on their computers. White people. They don't have any drinks.

Not once have I seen someone asked to buy something. Not once have any of them been asked to leave. Not once have Police been called.

I've seen it. I bet most people on here have seen it.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

No, they make you order shit. You don't get to just sit there quietly conducting your meeting without making a purchase.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Not sure what happened to the manager, I thought I read fired somewhere?

Anyway, if she was simply following company policy and had asked whites, etc. just hanging out there to leave, she'll sue the beejesus out of Starbucks and win.

So because of your anecdotal evidence it could never happens in the rest of their 14 thousand stores in the US.

Exactly. It could never happens.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

No she won't. She was an at-will employee per PA law. Starbucks is free to fire her for any reason or no reason at all, unless it was an illegal reason and this would not be an illegal reason.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

The one closest to my house does ask people to order. I have never seen cops called, with the exception for sleeping homeless people, but its so packed they do ask people to order. And yes, I see people there without drinks but usually they have ordered and have been there for so long their drink is finished. This is mostly students.

This is merely an op-ed, but, the author raises some good points.


Of course it is claimed that white people loiter in Starbucks all the time without being asked to leave. This must prove that these men were singled out for their race. Perhaps it does. But if the men were arrested for "being black in Starbucks," you'd think there must be many similar stories from that same Starbucks location. Presumably, the Starbucks in Philadelphia has hundreds of black patrons come in and out every single week. If the manager is so uncontrollably racist that she actually called the cops on two black men simply because they are black, why didn't she do the same with any of the hundreds or thousands of other black customers she's seen in the store?


And here's another question: Has this manager ever done the same to white people? She says she has enforced the loitering rule plenty of times in the past. Were they always black people? If she has done exactly the same to people of her own race, wouldn't that disprove racism with absolute certainty? Are we sure that the loitering policy at the Starbucks in Philadelphia was enforced based on skin color? How are we sure? Does someone have proof?

https://www.dailywire.com/...starbucks-matt-walsh

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

You're not doing it right.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

No, I just don't want to be arrested.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Is that all they were doing? It's a sincere question. The first report I heard (which until today was the last report I heard) was that the guys or one of them had asked to use the bathroom, but he/they were refused because the bathroom is reserved for paying customers. That's literally all I heard because the story then skipped to the part where the guys were arrested.

But if that is true then what was the guy's (were the guys') reaction and behavior in the store that caused the manager to call the cops? Sounds like the customer-Starbucks relationship started out badly in this case and it's reasonable to suspect that the guy/guys reacted poorly to being refused access to the bathroom. Were they causing a scene?

Of course this begs the question of why they were refused access to the bathroom (i.e., were non-paying other races granted access?) but that's the next step.

So maybe calling the cops was appropriate and the real question isn't about Starbucks but, rather, is about the Philadelphia law enforcement's arrest itself. (It's like the United Airlines thing: United didn't drag that dude off the plane; rather, it was local law enforcement who did.)

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War is god

I believe you are confusing two cases. One involved the two men in Philly. A second involved a black man in LA who was denied use of the bathroom. From all accounts, the two guys in Philly were just sitting waiting for a friend to arrive. The guy in LA became agitated and loud, claiming a white guy was permitted to use the bathroom without buying anything.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Maybe this had nothing to do with race, maybe the exact same thing would have happened if these people had been white. But I'm sure it would have been much less newsworthy if it had been.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

Simple question to the capitulating Starbucks Ceo.- Mr. Kevin Johnson Is your new policy going to be... That anyone can hang out in your stores and use your restrooms and are no longer required to be a paying customer? Basically making Starbucks like a public park with wi-fi.

If the CEO believes this is the right thing to do, good luck with all the homeless, and other ne' er-do-wells that will take over Starbucks. If he is thinking maybe this might not be a good policy (like most all businesses think), I would suggest he apologizes to the manager who enforced his sensible rules and give her a fat raise for all the abuse she has gotten.

Haha! The white guilt is running deep at Starbucks right now, time to take advantage! I wonder if I could claim 'I identify as a black man or woman' and pull this caper off?

I think the answer is somewhere in the middle. So if someone says they're waiting for a friend then let them wait a reasonable time. If no friend arrives and they refuse to buy any products, then ask them to leave. Call police as a last resort. Apply policies uniformly.

Pretty subjective. What is a reasonable time and what if they also want to use the bathroom?

Is waiting with some coffee in your hand out of the question? If I was a paying customer and wanted a place to sit and saw people just chilling at a table id be pretty upset.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

Snopes (yuck, but it's what I've got at the moment) says they asked to use the bathroom and were refused because they hadn't bought anything yet. The guys sat down quietly and wouldn't leave despite being asked to do so three times. Sounds like it became a battle of wills and the employee upped the ante after it became clear to him/her that the guys weren't going to order anything (probably out of spite, which is perfectly reasonable). In our current political climate of hand wringing and appearance over substance and truth, Starbucks lost and now the CEO has to prostrate himself as the sacrificial goat of the week.

So I'm sure there was more going on than simply, "real estate agents arrested while waiting for a friend." Stuff like this doesn't happen in a vacuum and nobody is ever completely innocent except young kids.* Were these guys known to the employee as repeat freeloaders who don't order anything despite holding multiple meetings at that particular store? In such a case, Starbucks is a retail store, not a free coworking space. Or, if the guys were sitting there seething and having lost their intent to order something (which is a reasonable reaction to being refused) then why didn't they wait for their friend outside rather than monopolizing a table? In that case, they were just trying to prove a point and if that's the case then yes, they were trespassing.

*My line of work has jaded me beyond recovery. I don't believe a single word anyone says, particularly when there's gain to be made by posturing and misrepresentation of objective facts.

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War is god

I agree wholeheartedly.

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War is god

Agreed.

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War is god

of course it's subjective. Every situation is different in some way. The use of reasonableness is used all the time in law. No reason a Starbucks manager can't do the same.

If they want to use the bathroom while they wait for a friend, fine, as long as you think their story is reasonable and they haven't waited an unreasonable time without buying anything. If the same person comes in every day to use the bathroom and never buys anything, that's unreasonable.

And one would assume the police would have sorted whether this was reasonable and a waste of their time or justified.

my understanding is once the police are called for a trespasser, it isn't up to their discretion, although they should use reasonable judgement too.

Well in this case, the supervisor used her professional/reasonable judgement) followed the rules and was fired for it. The two who in my opinion were being very unreasonable!
From what I heard they-
Wanted to use the rest room, but were told 'no the restrooms are paying customers'. - Seems reasonable, they could of easily bought a cup of coffee for the privilege.

Then they sat down at a table, and once again were told the tables are for paying customers, - Makes sense

They stayed there for 15 mins and then police arrived.- That is a long time to hold up a valuable table that paying customers can't use.

The police asked them 3 times to leave, they refused, - Those are combative stubborn people.

They were then arrested, - What choice did the cops have, should they just let assholes take over where ever they feel.

Later to be released with no charges pressed by Starbucks

Now the women who made the her professional/subjective decisions no longer has a job.
.

But if she followed Starbucks policy and was sacrificed for it... then you're saying she has no case for wrongful termination?

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War is god

And then an attempt to publicly blame/shame her by Schultz who stated she showed her unconscious bias.

Not in a state like PA that follows the "at-will employment" doctrine. I can fire you for any reason that is not illegal. I can fire you for being a bad employee. I can fire you for being too good. I can fire you because you are a Bears fan. I can fire you for not paying homage to the Packers. I can fire you for failing to follow work rules and for strictly adhering to work rules.

I just cannot fire you for things like: (1) your protected class; (2) reporting harassment/discrimination; (3) opposing harassment/discrimination; (4) exercising your rights under statutes like the FMLA; etc.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I was not aware of that. Thank you for the additional information. And, I completely agree with your position. We never get the entire story.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Did the guys ever once say "we are just waiting for a friend, we want to buy him a coffee and will order then"?

Starbucks' goal is to create a "third place" experience, meaning, a place aside from your home or place of work you go to meet friends, read, relax, whatever. That's in their own words, they are selling this "third place" experience, not coffee. If I went in to a Starbucks and was harrassed for taking too long to order something I'd be pretty pissed. Especially if I explained that I was waiting for other members of my party to arrive.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

You’ve obviously never been to a Starbucks. This is the case any time I am there. Seats all taken by people who maybe ordered one drink 3 hours ago.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I think you are taking the "third place experience" beyond its intent. From Starbuck's website: https://www.starbucks.com/.../company-information

In 1983, Howard traveled to Italy and became captivated with Italian coffee bars and the romance of the coffee experience. He had a vision to bring the Italian coffeehouse tradition back to the United States. A place for conversation and a sense of community. A third place between work and home. He left Starbucks for a short period of time to start his own Il Giornale coffeehouses and returned in August 1987 to purchase Starbucks with the help of local investors.

Also:

Expect More Than Coffee
We’re not just passionate purveyors of coffee, but everything else that goes with a full and rewarding coffeehouse experience. We also offer a selection of premium teas, fine pastries and other delectable treats to please the taste buds. And the music you hear in store is chosen for its artistry and appeal.

It’s not unusual to see people coming to Starbucks to chat, meet up or even work. We’re a neighborhood gathering place, a part of the daily routine – and we couldn’t be happier about it. Get to know us and you’ll see: we are so much more than what we brew.

We make sure everything we do is through the lens of humanity – from our commitment to the highest quality coffee in the world, to the way we engage with our customers and communities to do business responsibly.


It seems pretty clear their intent is not to be a public library, but a place where you gather, meet up, and/or work to eat their food and drink their beverages. The "third place experience" means "we want you to stay here for long periods of time AND buy our coffee and tea. They do not play music and offer WiFi b/c they enjoy your presence.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I don't know about you. But I find if people just stick to the basic rules and understand them there is a lot less anarchy, and people crying foul, making a more relaxing environment. This will be interesting how all this plays out, as the CEO bends over to all the perpetually victims demands..
I love watching the left eat themselves. I just think it is sad a woman manager lost her job for following the rules, maybe she can get a job at Chic-Fillet.

If those men planned on buying something, and were simply waiting for a friend, and made that intent clear, I don't see why they should be denied use of the washroom or a table, or asked to leave when it's pretty common for someone to buy a $1.50 tea and use free WiFi for a couple hours. Im not sure if they stated they were waiting for a friend or not.

Either way, it seems like the manager, at best, provided extremely shitty customer service.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I don't disagree. However, there have been several posts in this thread linking articles containing information inconsistent with the scenario you paint above. As Crank stated - we don't know all the facts and this situation is not as simple as your express.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Starbucks doesn't really care if you've ordered a coffee or not. They really want the place to seem like a place that you'd want to go, and having lots of people in the store helps create that vibe. get enough boots through the door and you sell product. If someone wants Starbucks, they aren't going to refrain from ordering because the tables are all taken.

If they didn't want you in the cafe for long periods of time, they wouldn't offer free wifi.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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I think we are on the same page here. I've asked a few times about the conversation had between the manager and the guys. Did these men not speak? I think that's key to how this shook out. I agree there is missing information, that's why I started the first paragraph you quoted with "if".

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Long Chile was a silly place.

maybe they should make some different versions of the logo so the mermaid is non-white

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

"Honestly - what conversation about actual racism has to take place here?"

No one has to have a conversation about anything, and I'm not suggesting that anyone should. But if a room of people consistently complain about the Bears and how well the Packers are doing, it tells me a lot about what interests them and I wouldn't use the lack of talking about Chicago field goals as any evidence of how common they are.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
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"I don't disagree. However, there have been several posts in this thread linking articles containing information inconsistent with the scenario you paint above. As Crank stated - we don't know all the facts and this situation is not as simple as your express. "

FWIW, I don't have much of an opinion on this case because, like you said, there's not really enough info.


This happened in Philly and there's a little bit of background information that should be shared. It was in a neighborhood called Rittenhouse Square, which is a bit of a trendy, upscale, artsy neighborhood. I've ridden my bike through it probably 50 times in the last 10. Google images of it and I you will see very few black people in them despite the fact that its in a city that is majority black. Most nice sections of the city are going to be predominantly white, but black people are not uncommon. Its not like, say, Pittsburgh where there are very few blacks, and most come from the poor neighborhoods.

So, black guys in white neighborhood....hmmmm, what are they doing here?
Its a predominantly black city......oh, okay.
But they look like.............well, they look like black hipsters, not criminals.






Seriously, I get it when someone looks like a criminal, be it because they look like a gang member, or a tatted up hardcore fan (no offense, Joel =) ), or whatever. I also get it if you are new around here and don't no the subtle difference between different social classes within minority groups. But anyone who grew up in this area should have been able to take one look at their hair and clothes and, other than being black, not think that they were at all out of place in that neighborhood.

Having said that, no idea what additional back story there is.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
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I've mentioned this before - I will be treated like a dignitary and an escaped con all in the same lunch period. Used to happed all the time at the gym. I would enter in my work clothes and get smiles and greetings from the little old ladies. Go to the pool and get looked at with complete disdain. No question about it. I have seen how different I am treated simply due to the ink on my skin. I cannot imagine what that is like having that treatment (much more enhanced than what I have ever experienced, of course) based simply on the color of your skin.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Of course they do. This position is inconsistent. If people go there to meet other people and be part of this "vibe" there have to be seats open. I've seen people confronted in the SBUX closest to me because its not uncommon that there aren't any seats available, so in these cases people walk across the street to a different coffee shop. Starbucks does not want that.

Exactly. I don't understand how people are missing the point that the free wifi is there to entice you in with the intent you will buy their coffee, then smell a baked good and buy that, then buy another coffee while you hang out. Of course they want you to stay there for long periods of time because the longer you stay, the more you are likely to buy.

Starbucks is no different than a bar. Of course they want you to stay there as long as possible, which is why they offer large televisions and other amenities to make you comfortable. But, they do not want the bar stools occupied by butts that are not buying alcohol.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I agree with the first part of your description of Rittenhouse Square. I disagree with the bolded. My in laws have owned condos in Rittenhouse Square for at least 15 years. That's an area we used to spend a lot of time at , Rouge and Devon seafood. Have friends and clients who live there. In laws now live in Washington Square which is another nice area. Anyone who lives, works, or spends any amount of time there and the city in general I highly doubt would question the color of someone's skin unless they had underlying racist issues that could make it an issue regardless of location.
Google images IMO is not an accurate representation of the area. Personally I'd be more surprised to not see a diverse group of people there.


I also agree wholeheartedly with this.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Not sure that Starbucks' "rules" dictate that you should call 911 within minutes of two black men sitting at a table waiting for a friend.

Some details emerging:

http://money.cnn.com/...ladelphia/index.html

We also don't know that the manager was fired, though even if not, she was probably encouraged to find alternative employment.

Disclaimer: I have only read the story, not watched the video of their interview, and recognise we have not heard the manager's side of the story. For instance, apart from telling them only customers could use the bathroom, what other words were exchanged?

ETA: Having now watched the interview, it does seem that they gave no intent on purchasing any products. They admit the manager came to ask them if they wanted to make a purchase, even a water. They said no, they were good and had their own water. So then the question is, a) what is Starbucks' policy on people being in their stores without making a purchase (the men claim Starbucks' website encourages its stores to be used as meeting points, but do they say you don't have to make a purchase)?, and b) did the manager ask them to leave on the basis that they were not showing an intent to make a purchase?

It seems this could easily have been avoided with better communication, and it's clear it was unnecessarily escalated.

Fair enough.

I literally pass through there only on occasion and know that it's nice. Don't want to pretend that I'm completely colorblind, but I hadn't really noticed the color of the people there other than being whiter than most parts of the city.

Don't know if that means 60% white or 98% white.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Actually, lets revisit this. Its looking like my original statement was correct. I looked at each block surrounding the Square, and they are between 0% - 1.8% black.

http://www.energyjustice.net/...843513&giZoom=12

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I wouldn't argue the residents there are predominately white. I would argue it would be common to not see black people there More importantly for anyone in that area to question a black person in the area. Unless again they were racists at heart.

My in laws have rented to a lot of post grad students or med students. I know they have had tenants who are white and black as well as foreign students. Their tenets also sublet when not in school.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

There is a major piece you are glossing over. There were white customers doing the same thing.

That's kind of what discrimination is: when you apply one set of rules to one race, but a different set of rules to a different race.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

There is still more to this story that will never be dug out because this is the kind of story the current press loves.

whole thing smells of a complete setup to me.

Let me straighten the record here a little.

1.) I'm not annoyed by these men talking about their experience, or by news media reporting on it. Like I said, this is news.
2.) I might have done the exact same thing these arrested black men did if I perceived the manager's reasoning was race based.
3.) My news reference had nothing to do with the "talk about it or not talk about it" game you describe.
4.) My news reference went to the fact that a relatively uncommon event was used to push the narrative that we have a pervasive racism problem (or worse).

In the grand scheme of things these guys were asked not to loiter while on Starbucks property, and they refused to comply with either Starbucks management or the police. The facts are still out on this, but even if we grant that there was a component of racial bias in this manager's decision making process, the men where never prosecuted for their intransigence, the public outcry from all races was huge, the manager was immediately removed from her job, all Starbucks stores are closing down a day for racial bias therapy sessions, and both men were meeting with the CEO of the multi-billion dollar company within the week.

And yet the Guardian's take is this: "A Starbucks arrest shows how black Americans are robbed of their power."

You wrote "black people have to deal with racism, all the time". I assume this was in the context of my post. Is this your way of saying that the extent of racism against blacks in America can never be overstated?

There is a black comedian that went into his local starbucks asking for free coffee as reparations.. he got it.

https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/man-gets-free-reparations-coffee/

Three points:

-1,2,&3 show a complete lack of reading comprehension.

-your argument boils down to "anything can mean anything" and then you just decide what you want to believe

- I am reminded why I normally have your posts hidden

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Talk about a no win situation. Give the man his coffee and you are later mocked as a dupe. Don't give the man a coffee and fear for the social media storm that might follow. While I get what the guy was doing to make a kinda funny point, it was a pretty crappy thing to do to whoever happened to be working when he went to ask.