Yeah it does, you could literally test positive for marijuana 5 days before Kona, in Kona, and then not after the race and be "fine".

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Not to get into the morass that this thread has become after David's post, but you calling Lionel a doper is pretty f***ing stupid.

I'm NOT calling Lionel a doper. He's not. Just like someone who used CBD or THC isn't a doper.

Yeesh, that's awful.

I'm all for anti-DOPING, but getting dinged for WEED is f'n ridiculous!!!

And it's not like it's a "masking agent" for something worse (well, maybe she freebases Doritos too?), and the only "performance" it "enhances", is the ability to crush a whole bag of chips, or an entire box of Cap'n Crunch in one sitting.

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float , hammer , and jog

Lionel had a substance abuse problem. before he was an athlete. his use then wasn't to try to gain a competitive advantage in competition through the use of drugs. conflating Lionel's (over)use of recreational drugs with PEDs is like conflating a speeding ticket in your car 15 years ago with someone getting popped for going 50mph on the bike at Oceanside 70.3's 25mph zone. yes, they're both "speeders". but that's an exceedingly false equivalency.

i don't think tilburs is necessarily saying that lauren getting popped for THC is a righteous bust. (he'll have to correct me if i'm wrong.) i kind of don't think it's a righteous bust. i think tilburs's beef is that she knew she was under the no-race policy while her case was working its way thru the system, and she found a race to race anyway, without her competitors knowing, and i can see how folks would consider that not cricket.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

“In comp” means any point you + the testers + the *race setup* is on location + immediately post race.

Which is usually ~48hrs prior to event + race itself + immediate post race.

IE it’s not only for “after” race testing essentially.


But in your scenario 5 days prior would likely be an out of comp test so yes in that scenario your correct.

2 days prior would be very close to the wada allowable “in comp” period.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

But you did to make your discussion point about LG did you not?

IE- I’m not putting words in your mouth, you did that yourself. I was more asking what that was from.

ETA: I was asking for clarity so that everything can be sticking to the facts. I’m not taking sides, you mentioned LS as a doper and thought it was out of left field.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I thought it was clear but you aren't the only one who was confused so I'll just point out...never said that.

Your interpretation of my point is spot on, thank you Dan.

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Thanks for the clarification!

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

It's essentially impossible to trigger a positive from CBD cream alone, given how high the threshold is to trigger a positive test. Maybe she's using CBD as an excuse, but it's extremely unlikely that CBD cream was the actual cause. But that's besides the point...

The point is that THC has no performance enhancing benefits, in any meaningful sense. We all know this. The fact that the presence of THC metabolites in urine is used as a test for possible impairment during a race is horribly misguided.

WADA has a pretty dumb rule, which (as enforced) seems more effective at enforcing arbitrary morality standards, as opposed to fair play: it's enforced in a clumsy, imprecise, manner. She gained absolutely no "unfair edge" by using weed, and didn't violate the "spirit of sport." The problem is with archaic rules, not with her use of THC. And if the race in China didn't care about a weed suspension, then good for them. They shouldn't care about it. (actual PEDs though, are obviously a different story... I'm all for lifetime bans for a single EPO, or anabolic steroid, positive)

Its 12 hours prior to competition according to USADA.


https://www.usada.org/resources/faq/#ICvsOOC

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blog

Awesome thanks, I knew it was some period “before” the event and not just post race testing time period.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Perhaps one can think LS former drug usage have upped his ability for pain tolerance..

Interesting, that's really not how we work in team sport. Didn't know that. Competition windows are defined by scheduled fixtures. So...say the NFL was governed by WADa (it's not). The Competition Window starts in the pre-season and and ends for that team when they're no longer competing.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Oh no doubt, you’re not wrong there. But I prefaced my comment with “let’s assume she smoked pot” (vice CBD cream as she claims) for sake of argument and as a commentary on the rule itself, not her actions.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Cheers, carry on.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I just think that if you are agreeing that it's not a righteous bust (given you agree with Dan's interpretation of your point), you'd choose a different vernacular, rather than use a term that we all use and associate with those who are righteously busted for true PEDs. Yes, you can break down the English language and prove it was factually accurate. But knowing very well how the term is typically applied, it did seem there was some motive there, perhaps the China result.

But thanks for explaining your position.

It just sucks for Lauren.

Is that for team sports that actually follow WADA regs? Is there actual different rules and procedures for different sports.

I know the NBAPA and IOC “agreed” to only testing athletes to WADA regulations within certain time frame of Olympics. That’s just how powerful the big names are and how much the IOC will “bend” to letting them play so they can showcase them etc.

The NBA does its own internal testing within the season and has its own policies outside of the wada testing period and/or fiba events.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Serious question... when does one become "convicted" and what can you do in the meantime?

E

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

NBA and Baseball have collectively bargained policies.

I used the NFL schedule only as an example for the competition window. But in Rugby, all Rugby competitions have to abide by World Rugby Regulation 21 Anti-Doping. World Rugby is a signatory to the WADA code and they follow all of the WADA regs. And based on the lengths of European seasons, the out of competition window becomes very small.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

[quote syntheticWell then, isn't it more embarrassing your athlete got beat by a pothead?[/quote]
I will just drop this here. We had a Worlds short course champion in the 90s who was a massive pothead. They could not get through dinner and a movie without lighting up, according to a friend who dated them. They also finished up a post grad degree at the same time. I cannot mix a bowl of cereal on pot, which is why I never really smoked it, but apparently some people can continue to thrive on it..

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

Part of the problem is that "convicted" to many of us (including Oxford...) carries the weight of the legal system. Not the WADA/ USADA system of voluntary rules to participate in the events which adhere to those rules, but the court of laws of the country. She's not "convicted" because she was never declared guilty of a criminal offense by a judge or jury. It's one of the words that really shouldn't be used in a vernacular sense, because even if that wasn't your intention (I'll believe you that it wasn't) it brings connotations to people of a person in handcuffs in a courtroom and charged with a criminal offense. This casts the whole thing in a different and much more serious light, and makes some people think you're deliberately attempting to make it look worse. It would be like saying "my friend convicted me of bailing on our plans" or "the referee convicted the football player of pass interference". You can also observe this by noting when a reporter will use the word "convicted": it's always in a court of law. Never by a non-legal organization. Even when Goodell punishes a player under the personal conduct policy, it is never referred to as a "conviction" for precisely this reason. Apparently a race allowed her to compete, which isn't so much a loophole as "well I got let go from one job so I went and found another". If an organization doesn't adhere to WADA, or the ban hasn't started yet, it doesn't apply.

Sometimes it seems like people on this forum want all infractions to be responded to with ritual suicide. There are rules, and there are penalties (sometimes with latitude) for infractions of those rules. There's no reason to expect that someone will self-penalize in excess of those penalties, any more than you or I would voluntarily not drive for six months after a minor speeding ticket.

This all coming from THC makes the whole situation even more ridiculous.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

That is one way to look at it. You could also look at it is an opportunity to do something else and move on. Continuing to be a professional triathlete as a viable replacement career is less and less likely to work. Sure it will be blackmark/whitemark/brownmark on her record to some. It is what it is. I know looking forward that Lauren will likely be fine and will land on her feet. I got off the phone with another long-time pro earlier today. Much older than me and I think he would have liked to get out of triathlon much much sooner.

And, while it is wonderful to turn a hobby into a job the reality is that sometimes that job really starts to feel like a job. Probably the biggest moment of respect for Lionel I had on paper was during his interview on TRS where he said he would walk away if he ~"no longer loved to swim, bike, and run". He was obviously saying knowing that someday that is how he could feel. To have that sort of forward vision is actually quite impressive. Obviously, it is easy to say that on paper but sometimes harder in practice to commit to. I see amongst age-groupers too and it isn't their job to compete.

So while it may be a little bump in the road, I feel confident that it could be the best thing to happen to her. And six-months is six-months. It is the end of the season anyway. Everybody needs time to cope and cool-off. If she really wants to come back to triathlon there is nothing stopping her. The majority of professional triathletes out there do this and they aren't making anything and don't have those contracts in the first place. They do it only for the love of the sport and don't have delusions of grandeur. And who knows, maybe the six-months hiatus will even be the emotional or physical disconnect she needs to reach another level to come back. I don't think I am stating anything that hasn't been shared by her on Insta in the past, maybe it is just me constantly reading between the lines, but I think this break will be positive for her.

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i would agree with this pretty much in its entirety