Re: Wurf to ITU [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 3:41

Post #51 of 269 (5342 views)

jaretj wrote:

He's at the top level at what he does, and that's Ironman, not draft legal ITU racing.

Totally agreed. Cam is good at sustaining long efforts. That's what he was good at in his pro cycling years and that's what he is good at now.

Those that say he can be with ITU guys have not watched an ITU race in their lives... or maybe they know nothing about pro short course triathlon. Swim is an all-out effort where a MOP swimmer (or BOP on a bad day) will lose 45" at a minimum. The bike does nothing to do with the fact he was a pro. He may have the handling skills... but it's a pure power-surge ride. It's not sustaining 320W for a long time... most of courses are technical urban streets with anaerobic power blasts. And in running I won't even discuss what a pace of 2:50min/km to 3:20min/km means for a long course guy.

There is a reason guys stay in ITU as long as they can. There is much more money in ITU than in LD racing, unless you are winning KONA. If the likes of Wurf or Sanders had any chance in ITU, they'd be there making twice what they make now.

Re: Wurf to ITU [monty] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 6:41

Post #52 of 269 (5260 views)

Interesting thing is he’s gotta be fried at some point. I mean I know he’s a aerobic machine and done a bunch of races this year. 2 IM’s within what 6 weeks of an World Cup level itu event.

Ha I’d have to told him to go sit on the beach and turn the training and mind off, f going right back into training and then doing all new swim focus on short max intensity work.

But he’s a different animal. I’m guessing he’s going to come out of this like Cam Dye did in 2013 at MTR worlds. USA put him in for some stupid ass reason and then he went and got destroyed. He lost a 20s lead while on the bike that’s how bad he biked and he was the anchor. You can see the look of contempt on GJ’s face in photos, it was sadly hillarious.

Even Dye post race was like “this is unbelievable” how hard they race...and he wasn’t even doing long course at the time only Olympic non-draft. But the specificity was so different, you just cant train up for it in this time frame.

But give him major props maybe it’s the ass kicking he wants to get better in water. It’s also actually a smart strategy by AUS to try he just has to actually be able to execute the role properly...you can’t play that role if your 45s behind Birt out of the water. And no one else on AUS is medal contender so why not try and help Birt. Matt McElroy likely wouldn’t mind either ha.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 6:56

Post #53 of 269 (5239 views)

Ya, he seems to have a fire lit under him for some reason, perhaps because he came to our sport so late in life, he wants to get in as much as possible before he ages out of being a top pro.

And everyone else that keeps knocking him needs to chill out a bit, no one is saying he is going to be front pack, or anywhere near in the swim. Now we do expect him to move up on the bike, either on his own, or with a very back group that forms. And it all depends on the race dynamic on whether he even gets near the front or not at T2, that is the exciting thing we will be watching. IF not, then of course no one will be banking on a big run from him, he will be trying not to have the slowest run split. But different story if all groups come together, and he then takes a flier, that is what I would like to see, but not expecting..

Re: Wurf to ITU [monty] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 7:35

Post #54 of 269 (5216 views)

monty wrote:

who is so naive to think that he will try to qualify for Tokyo?//

Well that is what he said he intends to do. He likes to talk a lot of trash when it comes to competitors, but he has always been serious about his race goals. You could have said the same thing when he said he was going to do 8 ironmans in a year, or race one 3 weeks before Kona, but he did all that and more. I have no doubt that this is his plan, the first swim will be the telling point on whether it will be a possibility or not..No one is naive here, but someone might be misinformed as to his goals?

Believe me, he has no speed...and any, I repeat, any ITU guy in the top 30 in a regional cup beats him. he must swim 1.15 to keep up with the last pack and run 3.25/km to even be a top 25 in an average European Cup. So, no way he is before Royle, Hausser, etc. for Tokyo. Just no way. If someone follows ITU racing will agree with me.

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Last edited by: juanillo: Oct 18, 19 7:36

Re: Wurf to ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 7:47

Post #55 of 269 (5194 views)

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Oct 18, 19 7:50

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 7:50

Post #56 of 269 (5187 views)

I like to watch Birtwhistle kick it at the end, it's awesome!

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 13:17

Post #57 of 269 (5127 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Of, I forgot about Jake..... but let me tell you... Cameron cant hold the ITU pace, even less the WTS ITU pace, even less the Tokyo pace that will be brutal (Schoeman, Varga, Luis, JBrownlee ...) In fact if Jake does not swim well,... maybe he will not podium because all these guys will push the bike to avoid Mola, Murray, and uberrunners to catch. So, Wurf? just pointless, ...in a 1.5 swim, he loses more than 2m with the top swimmers, that´s an ocean. Moreover, guys that have been in ITU for Aus really deserve to get to the Olympics: Royle, Hauser, William, Fisher, Bailie... More proof? you had Macca, former ITU world champion and went back to ITU...not success...

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Re: Wurf to ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 13:19

Post #58 of 269 (5117 views)

But did he go back and win kona after that?

Re: Wurf to ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 13:43

Post #59 of 269 (5091 views)

juanillo wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Of, I forgot about Jake..... but let me tell you... Cameron cant hold the ITU pace, even less the WTS ITU pace, even less the Tokyo pace that will be brutal (Schoeman, Varga, Luis, JBrownlee ...) In fact if Jake does not swim well,... maybe he will not podium because all these guys will push the bike to avoid Mola, Murray, and uberrunners to catch. So, Wurf? just pointless, ...in a 1.5 swim, he loses more than 2m with the top swimmers, that´s an ocean. Moreover, guys that have been in ITU for Aus really deserve to get to the Olympics: Royle, Hauser, William, Fisher, Bailie... More proof? you had Macca, former ITU world champion and went back to ITU...not success...

Couldn't agree more. Given Wurf will not make the top 140 this Olympic chat is a non starter. The difference between Wurf and someone like Tom Davison, is that Tom could be in a position to use his bike strength and cycle through the packs at WTS level. Wurf is gonna be too far back after the swim to do that. We'll see if at lower WC level he can get away with it but I doubt it on this course.

Re: Wurf to ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 13:45

Post #60 of 269 (5089 views)

juanillo wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Of, I forgot about Jake..... but let me tell you... Cameron cant hold the ITU pace, even less the WTS ITU pace, even less the Tokyo pace that will be brutal (Schoeman, Varga, Luis, JBrownlee ...) In fact if Jake does not swim well,... maybe he will not podium because all these guys will push the bike to avoid Mola, Murray, and uberrunners to catch. So, Wurf? just pointless, ...in a 1.5 swim, he loses more than 2m with the top swimmers, that´s an ocean. Moreover, guys that have been in ITU for Aus really deserve to get to the Olympics: Royle, Hauser, William, Fisher, Bailie... More proof? you had Macca, former ITU world champion and went back to ITU...not success...

Actually that's the whole point of having Wurf because Jake aint going to swim in the front pack. Now if you read what I've said, wurf likely wont be there either, in fact he'll be closer to the tail end overall. But your making points that don't matter in this actual discussion. His swim time isn't to the front group, it's to the chase group...that's it. If he can make that chase group (and he likely can't/won't) then he's a huge value.

Your trying to use Macca as proof it did't work, when I'm not arguing Wurf to ITU will work. I'm just explaining to you how it can and the avenue and the why.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 13:48

Post #61 of 269 (5081 views)

Adman wrote:

juanillo wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Of, I forgot about Jake..... but let me tell you... Cameron cant hold the ITU pace, even less the WTS ITU pace, even less the Tokyo pace that will be brutal (Schoeman, Varga, Luis, JBrownlee ...) In fact if Jake does not swim well,... maybe he will not podium because all these guys will push the bike to avoid Mola, Murray, and uberrunners to catch. So, Wurf? just pointless, ...in a 1.5 swim, he loses more than 2m with the top swimmers, that´s an ocean. Moreover, guys that have been in ITU for Aus really deserve to get to the Olympics: Royle, Hauser, William, Fisher, Bailie... More proof? you had Macca, former ITU world champion and went back to ITU...not success...

Couldn't agree more. Given Wurf will not make the top 140 this Olympic chat is a non starter. The difference between Wurf and someone like Tom Davison, is that Tom could be in a position to use his bike strength and cycle through the packs at WTS level. Wurf is gonna be too far back after the swim to do that. We'll see if at lower WC level he can get away with it but I doubt it on this course.

He's arguing something I'm not arguing with him though. In fact I'm in agreement with him, but what I'm showcasing is how a Cam Wurf can be used if he actually had the swim. Now he wont, but we can atleast see it live to say it won't work and be happy they gave it the ole "college try" and as I've said I think this is more a "racevacation" and shot in the dark.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 13:49

Post #62 of 269 (5076 views)

lacticturkey wrote:

But did he go back and win kona after that?

No it was only after his 2nd IM win that he went to ITU in late 2010-2011 time period. It was pretty evident he was going to not make it as every swim he did he was one of the last bikes out....that's a bad feeling....when your bike is the only one left....your f'd in ITU.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 14:06

Post #63 of 269 (5059 views)

Still cool that he went for it,

How large is the field for cams division, is it bigger than the championships?

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 14:17

Post #64 of 269 (5045 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

Adman wrote:

juanillo wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Of, I forgot about Jake..... but let me tell you... Cameron cant hold the ITU pace, even less the WTS ITU pace, even less the Tokyo pace that will be brutal (Schoeman, Varga, Luis, JBrownlee ...) In fact if Jake does not swim well,... maybe he will not podium because all these guys will push the bike to avoid Mola, Murray, and uberrunners to catch. So, Wurf? just pointless, ...in a 1.5 swim, he loses more than 2m with the top swimmers, that´s an ocean. Moreover, guys that have been in ITU for Aus really deserve to get to the Olympics: Royle, Hauser, William, Fisher, Bailie... More proof? you had Macca, former ITU world champion and went back to ITU...not success...

Couldn't agree more. Given Wurf will not make the top 140 this Olympic chat is a non starter. The difference between Wurf and someone like Tom Davison, is that Tom could be in a position to use his bike strength and cycle through the packs at WTS level. Wurf is gonna be too far back after the swim to do that. We'll see if at lower WC level he can get away with it but I doubt it on this course.

He's arguing something I'm not arguing with him though. In fact I'm in agreement with him, but what I'm showcasing is how a Cam Wurf can be used if he actually had the swim. Now he wont, but we can atleast see it live to say it won't work and be happy they gave it the ole "college try" and as I've said I think this is more a "racevacation" and shot in the dark.

Fair enough.

Re: Wurf to ITU [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 14:36

Post #65 of 269 (5028 views)

I believe it'll be 65ish give or take some may DNS, etc.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 18:13

Post #66 of 269 (4970 views)

Just watching tongyeong world cup women, Spirig was over 40 seconds down in a sprint swim but caught up on bike on first lap.

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 18, 19 22:41

Post #67 of 269 (4916 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

Adman wrote:

juanillo wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

I would look at this another way. I would look at what Wurf can do for AUS, not what he can do overall. Cus he could be an outstanding domestique for Birtwhistle, most especially as the rest of team AUS isn't really medal contenders. Now of course he can only be a domestique if he has the swim to actually be out of water in chase pack. If he can't then this will be a very quick ITU experiment. Or maybe it's just a Wurf decision to do something different and kick start his swim development.

He's not going to race his way onto the team, he would only be chosen if ever for the possibility of helping win a medal....And imo Birt has the goods to win a medal, so why not build around him, if no one else is that good. Of course if you feel that you field a team that is made up of athletes that "earn" their spot, that's fine too. But if your looking at the best chance of winning a medal, there is validity in domestique roles.

Of, I forgot about Jake..... but let me tell you... Cameron cant hold the ITU pace, even less the WTS ITU pace, even less the Tokyo pace that will be brutal (Schoeman, Varga, Luis, JBrownlee ...) In fact if Jake does not swim well,... maybe he will not podium because all these guys will push the bike to avoid Mola, Murray, and uberrunners to catch. So, Wurf? just pointless, ...in a 1.5 swim, he loses more than 2m with the top swimmers, that´s an ocean. Moreover, guys that have been in ITU for Aus really deserve to get to the Olympics: Royle, Hauser, William, Fisher, Bailie... More proof? you had Macca, former ITU world champion and went back to ITU...not success...

Couldn't agree more. Given Wurf will not make the top 140 this Olympic chat is a non starter. The difference between Wurf and someone like Tom Davison, is that Tom could be in a position to use his bike strength and cycle through the packs at WTS level. Wurf is gonna be too far back after the swim to do that. We'll see if at lower WC level he can get away with it but I doubt it on this course.

He's arguing something I'm not arguing with him though. In fact I'm in agreement with him, but what I'm showcasing is how a Cam Wurf can be used if he actually had the swim. Now he wont, but we can atleast see it live to say it won't work and be happy they gave it the ole "college try" and as I've said I think this is more a "racevacation" and shot in the dark.

I am not arguing...again, a 2m gap with the top swimmers, is more than 1 minute with the Birtwistles,Molas pack, so, ... I wonder wether you often watch ITU as I dont usually watch IM. So, 1m down , you are out.There are not miraculous solo bike comebacks in top ITU in the men's field (i point this out as someone mentioned Spirig. She can do that in a world cup but not in the world series...

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Last edited by: juanillo: Oct 18, 19 22:45

Re: Wurf to ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 19, 19 1:00

Post #68 of 269 (4856 views)

. I wonder wether you often watch ITU as I dont usually watch IM.

——-

What’s itu?

If you read what I wrote I pegged 1:45 back in DR as my projection, and that’s going to be s Varga led swim. He just swam a smoking fast 7:40 swim in Korea at the sprint distance (wetsuit aided)

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Oct 19, 19 1:03

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 4:20

Post #69 of 269 (4619 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

. I wonder wether you often watch ITU as I dont usually watch IM.

——-

What’s itu?

If you read what I wrote I pegged 1:45 back in DR as my projection, and that’s going to be s Varga led swim. He just swam a smoking fast 7:40 swim in Korea at the sprint distance (wetsuit aided)

This is my bet, 65 men at the start list.: https://triathlon.org/...lon_world_cup/339013
1. He makes a DNF or over Top 45
2. 1,5km swim...I guess no wetsuit... He loses more than 2m with Varga and I.Polyianski, top swimmers; 1m15 with the big bunch.

ITU, if you are not kidding, INTERNATIONAL TRIATHLON UNION

Cheers

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Last edited by: juanillo: Oct 20, 19 4:20

Re: Wurf to ITU [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 8:12

Post #70 of 269 (4522 views)

Dont think he'll DNF.....as I've said I think if he's in a position to finish and be within the time limit to get some points, that will be mission accomplished. He's going to suffer not only on the swim but the run as well. Of course if this is some secret desire to showcase domestique ability, the run is irrelevant (but he would need to finish to score points). I think it's likely just a "let's see how this goes" type of 1 off race decision.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 16:09

Post #71 of 269 (4405 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

Dont think he'll DNF.....as I've said I think if he's in a position to finish and be within the time limit to get some points, that will be mission accomplished. He's going to suffer not only on the swim but the run as well. Of course if this is some secret desire to showcase domestique ability, the run is irrelevant (but he would need to finish to score points). I think it's likely just a "let's see how this goes" type of 1 off race decision.

I think it's a desire to show domestique ability. I don't believe he is so stupid/arrogant as to think he would earn a spot by being medal potential himself. From looking at the Aus selection policy they do mention discretionary selections will be made based on medal winning or potential to help win a medal. that word HELP is what he would be after. At this stage I think a couple more Aus guys should be looking at trying to show this also, may be what separates favourably those who aren't likely medalists from the 5 or so others in the same boat.Of course this is only relevant if Aus end up with a third male, otherwise relay capability will be the main criteria I would think.

Re: Wurf to ITU [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 18:05

Post #72 of 269 (4341 views)

Just came back from an interview with bob and cam. Cam doesn't care to race starky at IMFL. He said if starky wants to race it has to be Kona. He is full focused to ITU... Plans as bike domestique for relay. Bob will post on his channel siin

Re: Wurf to ITU [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 18:17

Post #73 of 269 (4319 views)

synthetic wrote:

Just came back from an interview with bob and cam. Cam doesn't care to race starky at IMFL. He said if starky wants to race it has to be Kona. He is full focused to ITU... Plans as bike domestique for relay. Bob will post on his channel siin

Does he realise the relay is still a swim bike run for each leg, no one does just one discipline. Domestique for individual but no such thing in a relay.

Re: Wurf to ITU [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 19:08

Post #74 of 269 (4289 views)

Relay would be worst event for him to try in itu.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Wurf to ITU [monty] [ In reply to ]

Oct 20, 19 21:17

Post #75 of 269 (4206 views)

monty wrote:

A great retro full vid of the 2008 Olympic tri - some amazing close up footage during the swim gives you an idea of the speed needed to be up front...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pWLgf_AIBE //

Thanks so much for putting up that great bit of history. I had forgotten so much about that race, and of course seeing it now with my eyes now, so much more is evident. First and foremost, take a look at Shane Reed from NZL leading the entire swim. He was doing the 2/3/2 breathing I think before we knew about it. Would have to go look back when Gary Hall wrote his famous article here, but Shane had to be one of the first, if not the first to rock that breathing pattern. No wonder no one could ever come around him, he was getting a 1/3 more air than everyone else! And funny that you still don't see much of that out there, folks still just doing what the coach said 20 years ago, even after Sun Yang set WR's with it in the pool too.

And all those guys look like kids! Allistar showing that he was the pacesetter in the run, until I dont know what happened to him. But I bet it was this day that he and his brother decided, no more one pack run starts. No doubt he went home and first thing was to start some bike racing. Its kind of funny now, but I guess that is how a lot of old ITU races went back in the day, all 3 bike packs would come together and it was a mass 10k running race. And it looked to me that Javier grabbed his side a couple times, maybe the same side stitch that plagued him at worlds 70.3 last year? And I bet everyone thought after Simon Whitfield was let back on the group of 3, that it was his race to lose. And it really looked that way, except for a little known athlete from Germany, Jan Frondeno.

What a great race to watch now, so many still racing in the twilight of their careers, many out to pasture. Loved seeing Rasmus Henning up there setting pace late in the run, he and Ali would pay dearly for that later..

sick finish - great video

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

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