Jan Frodeno did something very similar last year (went vegan and was obviously too thin - not saying one is a result of the other, so chill vegans) with similar results at Kona. Yet he largely gets a pass because he faked an injury and isn’t open at all with his training or methodologies or anything like Lionel is.

I guess my point with that was that Lionel wouldn’t get nearly the shit he does on here if he wasn’t so open. But then he wouldn’t be the huge brand he is either.

And using Cody as an example of other pros probably isn’t a good representation of other pros. I doubt many are as analytical as Cody. I’m sure lots of pros make just as stupid decisions as Lionel does all the time.

He just posted an interview after IMMT and basically said he is to lean. Basically, he said he screwed up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO6Gp3Yp6Y8

Chance this thread shoots up as fast as Ashley thread.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Yes, Lionel is definitely more open than most pros. That's a hard thing to do and be, so kudos to him for that. At the same time, it invites wayyyy more criticism. But it's made him a household name (well, in our world) and he's extremely well liked and is very likeable.

Cody is not more analytical than most pros, I don't think. He is on the more analytical side of the spectrum of professional triathletes. I used him as a comparison because they are adherents to opposite ends of a process spectrum.

Frodo doesn't get a "pass."

He's too lean, he's too heavy, not enough glycogen, his bike's too big, his body snakes too much when he rides hard, he has a hitch in his stride, he abandons his swim form, his bike handling is poor, his bottles aren't aero, his pedals aren't Speedplay, he rides outdoors too much, he doesn't ride outdoors enough... boo-shit, boo-shit, boo-shit, boo-shit.

I don't care if Lionel goes Vegan before Kona or goes black and doesn't go back, my frustration stems from my belief that if Lionel had a core group of similar advisors like Frodeno and Gomez, he'd be hot shit on a silver platter, about to win his 2nd Ironman World Championship, likely his 2nd of 7 or 8. Instead he's cold diarrhea on a paper plate.

And Texas 2017/2016?

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https://twitter.com/mungub

So I wonder...if he knew that the course was going to use regular gatorade and not Gatorade Endurance. Which according to him caused to GI issues...why did he not switch to regular gatorade two weeks out? If the intent is to just use on course nutrition...you're a pro, call the RD and find out early enough you can communicate effectively with Gatorade on what you need.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

As to Kona I agree the field looks really deep this year if everyone is healthy but I wouldn't bet against LS being there at the end.


I agree.


Any of the top guys could finish out of the top 5 positions on a given day but I wouldn't count LS out by any means. He said his training results have been excellent so dials in his nutrition, he'll be ready to go. Personally, I think he should stop weighing himself every morning.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you here. Lionel grew up playing organized sports (basketball) and he was also a cross country runner. If he has been the way he is now, thirsty for knowledge, there is no reason to believe he didn't learn a great deal from those two coaching opportunities. Certainly enough to become self aware and self critical. Exercise physiology is not rocket science. It's a fairly simple equation of

One thing many of the comments on here is forgetting is Cody Beals set a course record and Lionel had a bad day. I think it's fair to say those two elements are the real factors here. If Lionel even had a good day and Cody had this good of a performance there is still a low likelihood he would have been able to make up that gap. Cody had something to prove to himself and he used the fear of Lionel chasing him down + the excitement of racing a new format to propel him to a new level.

Congrats to Cody and to Lionel on a great day on home soil! It's great to see them racing head to head once again

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I like Lionel quite a bit.

The endurance sport world is full of incredibly boring athletes who never say anything interesting. They show up and win, make some forgettable statement and you barely remember them a year later.

Why was Muhammad Ali so exciting to watch? Certainly his boxing ability was part of it. But just as much or more was his politics, his braggadocio, his charisma, his wit and his appearance. There was no way to have no opinion about Mr. Ali. You loved him or hated him. Strong opinions.

Viewers don't want boring wins or boring athletes. They want controversy and drama and to be able to heckle their favorite athletes and cheer for them and cry for them.

Lionel Sanders is one of those athletes. He has such a strange and unique and magnetic personality and he shares it with the world. It creates strong opinions which is wonderful.

We don't need anymore boring reserved endurance athletes. We need people who can become superstars.

You guys have been talking about Sanders gets it all wrong for years, and yet... he still gets it done and it seems from his interview that he knows where he messed up and what he needs to do to correct it. The dude had an extremely sub-par day (by his standards) and still cranked out an 8:24


He'll be fine in Kona.


I agree. I'm amazed how many have been completely wrong about LS year after year, and continue to doubt him over and over again. He has a "bad race" (how many people in the world have a bad race and get 8:24) because of some poor nutrition choices and now has a good amount of recovery time in advance of Kona. His training, according to him, has been excellent so if he corrects the food issues (and stops weighing himself) I predict he'll be right there again.

I'm a gambling man, and LS fan, but I think that the competition is solid and ANYTHING can go wrong on any given day.

So, if you're willing to keep this, I'll bet you $100 (so you win $200) that LS doesn't podium. Yes?

Might want to remember this quote:

"He who lives by the crystal ball soon learns to eat ground glass."

How many on this tread would have thought no podium last year for Frodeno
Or Hillary, Brexit, etc

Fun to speculate though!

So, if you're willing to keep this, I'll bet you $100 (so you win $200) that LS doesn't podium. Yes? //

Well my bet was thrown out to Fishbum, but he answered every other post except mine, so I guess he wasn't ready to put his money where his mouth is. Here is what he had to say;

In my opinion Kona shaping up to be an awesome race this year. I think there is a good chance that Sanders isn't even in the top five this year.

So since he didn't step up, I will offer to you the same deal, and take your offer for the C note on Lionel hitting the top 5 this year(at 2-1 and you get the entire field against my one lone guy). This is your virtual hand shake, and you can ask SH if I pay my debts... Well, at least the one out of 5 years I lost to him of course!!!! (-;

This all assumes he starts the race of course, if he gets hit by a car before or a meteor hits him, then it is a no bet...

One change and I’m all in: I thought the podium was only top 3 (that’s what it’s been at the only 70.3s I’ve done). So, I’ll give you the top 4 spots. The 5th spot is a “push” and any below I win.

I agree with your “must start to count”.

If that works for you, then let’s do it.

And to be clear, I’m rooting for him. Talked with him at St.G70.3 and he I think he is a super talent and fun for the sport. But I’m also a degenerate gambler, so... lol

But I’m also a degenerate gambler, so.

1. So, pot meet kettle!!! You and I should go to Vegas sometime!! I accept your terms, now lets start talking Kona and get off this AH bullshit!

Hahaha!! I haven’t even read the AH post. Saw it when it first started and said “nope, not for me.”

Vegas: think about the St.G70.3...or at least showing up for it. I have a golf house in Mesquite, and head over then and race (used very loosly), golf and gamble. It’s a tough life. We can discuss in PM.

Kona! Kona! Kona! (Said like “toga” from Animal House)

I have a golf house in Mesquite//

Last time I was in Mesquite was probably25 to 30 years ago. And all I remember is that it was New Years eve, and I hit one of my 3 royal flushes of my life that night(discounting online poker). And being the sucker I was, I had money on the sucker bet that paid 800 to 1 !!! As I recall I had a few bucks on it, and that paid for whatever trip I was on at the time. You know you are a gambler when you remember hands you played, but have no recollection why you were there, what else happened, and who you even went with!!! I'm in!!!

Now take the flip side of this...maybe it is BECAUSE he doesn't have all those, that he IS hot shit on a silver platter. Self-coached athletes can at times do as well as with a coach, or better, depending if they had a bad coach or not. Who knows, maybe someone like a Sutto would totally destroy him and he'd never be where he is today. We don't know. He's doing just fine on his own, given he barely lost the WC by what amounts to a thread over 140.6 miles.

ROFL!!! OMG, his wife Erin will be really pissed!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Lionel went from a Medium to a small frame...so, he should probably go back up.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Lol.

Not trying to bash the guy in this thread I just truly think the field is so stacked this year that if he continues to make the same mistakes there's a real chance he's not where he should be talent-wise.

I'd like to see you and Lionel in the Octagon, man that would be AWESOME!!!
The question is, after the fight, REGARLDLESS of the outcome, do you shake his hand and bury the hatchet, or do you still walk around with your Jilted Lover Hate on.

He and I have had some really positive interactions, most recently at St. George 70.3. (Here and Here)

Hahahahaha