Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 14:35

Post #51 of 172 (6407 views)

ABarnes and GreenPlease - you both are spot on. There is a new video coming out in about 2 weeks where I tried to show really working the bars, don't know if it is really clear though.

Ultimately it will come down to the product testing we plan to do. There is an ISO 4210 stem fatigue test that is quite stringent. We plan to perform that 3rd party test in two directions, one on the bar hinges and the other on the locks. In addition to that test, we plan on doing articulation cycle testing under load as well as static load testing in both the hinge and lock directions. I'll update the site with testing videos once we get all of those done, expect to be completed before the end of Q1 this year.

GreenPlease wrote:

ABarnes wrote:

I'm afraid that is hardly proof. Tanks are indeed built like tanks, but even a 20mm projectile can breach the armor.

The forces acting on a handlebar can be three times your body weight, it is not wise to assume that how something appears to be made is indeed how it will act under load.

If you've never seen anyone snap a stem, clamp, or handlebar, it's not pretty at any speed.

I totally agree. I don't want to be Frank's PR piece but he's a proper mechanical engineer (oil industry) and he's told me the bars are being designed to handle very high loads and will be tested to that end (in accordance with... and probably well beyond... ISO standards).

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [desert dude] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 14:39

Post #52 of 172 (6407 views)

Funny thing, we will be Tuscon January 16th with 3 bikes on our way up to the IBD Summit in Pheonix January 17-19. Any and all in the area are welcome to give them a try. If there is enough interest, we could set up somewhere for folks to stop by in both cities. Let me know if that would be worth while!

Thanks,
Frank

desert dude wrote:

Quote:

Over/under on 5w. I'll take the under :)

I'm in for the over.

andhHey I even know someone who can test it ;-)

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [ktm520] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 14:43

Post #53 of 172 (6405 views)

I looked at that. Like you said, it is really tough when it gets to the locks. I have a couple more bar assemblies we are putting together this weekend with different bar ends. I'll update the site with it, I think you'll see how easy it is to install a different bar end whether it be a ski pole bend, or road bike horn shapes, really flexible. Keep an eye on the site, probably have those pics up this weekend.
Thanks,
Frank

ktm520 wrote:

Love the concept Frank and signed up for updates. FWIW and likely something you have considered, but a bi-axial or U-joint approach may allow for a more flexible/ergonomic final wrist position. Conic or bi-axial hinged joints could yield a final, single lock, ski bend position. The U-joint could be more flexible, but has more control challenges.

Look forward to your progress.

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 14:48

Post #54 of 172 (6397 views)

We are USAT and WTC approved. UTI is still a work in progress but all initial conversations and indications are quite positive. The UCI technical committee meets twice a year, the next meeting is this spring. We are on the docket for TT, will keep everyone posted on the site with how we fare. I think there is a chance we would be for TT events.

As for cost, we are still working on manufacturing costs, we will be Made in the USA. That is important to me. Our target sales price is about 450-500. Not set in stone yet, but comparable to a mid level cockpit today.

Thanks,
Frank

NordicSkier wrote:

I'd be willing to buy a pair of these if they were UCI legal... which I am going to assume they are not.

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 16:10

Post #55 of 172 (6354 views)

Finally looked at the internals of that bar. Surprisingly, the linkage is quite different.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Frank-S] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 17:30

Post #56 of 172 (6330 views)

How are you dealing with patents? I assume that you've either licensed the IP, or these are out of patent?

EDIT: Frank messaged me privately to say that he has a patent attorney and they've done appropriate work in this area. I'm confident enough that this issue is well covered and we'll see the product come to market without issue.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Last edited by: georged: Jan 4, 17 18:46

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Jan 4, 17 18:51

Post #57 of 172 (6288 views)

That older concept has both a larger frontal area and a larger wetted area in the aero-position, which removes some of the advantage.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 3:18

Post #58 of 172 (6229 views)

milesthedog wrote:

I've stated this in another Morph thread, and I love the attention the bar is getting. But here's what I think could take the bar to the next level:

full carbon construction
enve p5x style stem that is universal, can work on any frame. silicone impregnated carbon to prevent slippage (bikeahead nsa)

horrible sketch in attempt to get idea across (yep, those orange masses represent Morph hinges on a carbon bar). Kind of wish Frank would team up with Nick Salazar on this bar:

I fail to see how full carbon construction would "take the bar to the next level".
What advantage to you think it will impart?
Weight - Maybe/Maybe not. Perhaps the joints could be built in carbon but likely they'd end up being metal parts bonded to carbon. Any point?
Strength/Reliability - Probably not. It's easier to understand the stresses with metals or homogeneous plastics.
Aerodynamic savings through shaping? - Maybe/Maybe not. In the bullhorn position, aerodynamics isn't very important. Conventional bars are designed with aerofoiled base bars primarily to reduce their drag while in the aero position. In this case there is no base bar while in the aero position. It's difficult to see a way to shape the bar for drag reductions in bullhorn position without adding drag and/or reducing "configurability" in the much more important aero position. Form should follow function. Everything else is just marketing nonsense. In the long run people will come to appreciate the shapes that are most effective, not the ones designed to follow a trend.

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Frank-S] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 3:27

Post #59 of 172 (6227 views)

Frank-S wrote:

That looks like quite a tidy design. I really like what you're doing, and that you appear to be doing it well. I'm interested partly because of the potential aerodynamic savings but mostly for the functional and safety superiority it should offer. I've never liked the conventional base bar+extension set-up on TT/Tri bikes. It works but it's clumsy and inefficient. This is the obvious answer but has been slow in coming. I'm delighted you're making it happen and I hope it goes well for you. I'll definitely consider getting one.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 6:16

Post #60 of 172 (6181 views)

While I am not bit on the current set up in the in the picture for the shifting, if you pair this with Di2 or eTap then I think you have a winner. Also match this up with a nice aero stem like the TriRig where you can bolt on a BTA bottle right on the stem and it would be pretty nice.

I am interested in this for sure.

EDIT: I also like the display they have on their site where they have the bars at just a bit of angle. Would be nice to have the bars angled just a bit up and as they show the armrests level. I think in touring and aero this is the best option. I think it looks like about a 8-10% angle

Last edited by: BMANX: Jan 5, 17 6:21

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 6:47

Post #61 of 172 (6153 views)

Ai_1 wrote:

milesthedog wrote:

I've stated this in another Morph thread, and I love the attention the bar is getting. But here's what I think could take the bar to the next level:

full carbon construction
enve p5x style stem that is universal, can work on any frame. silicone impregnated carbon to prevent slippage (bikeahead nsa)

horrible sketch in attempt to get idea across (yep, those orange masses represent Morph hinges on a carbon bar). Kind of wish Frank would team up with Nick Salazar on this bar:

I fail to see how full carbon construction would "take the bar to the next level".
What advantage to you think it will impart?
Weight - Maybe/Maybe not. Perhaps the joints could be built in carbon but likely they'd end up being metal parts bonded to carbon. Any point?
Strength/Reliability - Probably not. It's easier to understand the stresses with metals or homogeneous plastics.
Aerodynamic savings through shaping? - Maybe/Maybe not. In the bullhorn position, aerodynamics isn't very important. Conventional bars are designed with aerofoiled base bars primarily to reduce their drag while in the aero position. In this case there is no base bar while in the aero position. It's difficult to see a way to shape the bar for drag reductions in bullhorn position without adding drag and/or reducing "configurability" in the much more important aero position. Form should follow function. Everything else is just marketing nonsense. In the long run people will come to appreciate the shapes that are most effective, not the ones designed to follow a trend.

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

If you keep a similar shape as today's bar, you can easily make a stronger and lighter bar using carbon fiber with a honeycomb core.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [BMANX] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 6:55

Post #62 of 172 (6144 views)

BMANX wrote:

While I am not bit on the current set up in the in the picture for the shifting, if you pair this with Di2 or eTap then I think you have a winner. Also match this up with a nice aero stem like the TriRig where you can bolt on a BTA bottle right on the stem and it would be pretty nice.

I am interested in this for sure.

EDIT: I also like the display they have on their site where they have the bars at just a bit of angle. Would be nice to have the bars angled just a bit up and as they show the armrests level. I think in touring and aero this is the best option. I think it looks like about a 8-10% angle

That's likely exactly how I'll test at A2 on my Shiv: Alpha X vs MORF + Sigma X (assuming I have a prototype by then).

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 7:00

Post #63 of 172 (6139 views)

Ai_1 wrote:

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

As a design engineer, I say you're spot on...if only more people would apply this to the concept of bicycle rims NEEDING to be made out of a single material too :-/

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Benv] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 7:14

Post #64 of 172 (6123 views)

Benv wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

milesthedog wrote:

I've stated this in another Morph thread, and I love the attention the bar is getting. But here's what I think could take the bar to the next level:

full carbon construction
enve p5x style stem that is universal, can work on any frame. silicone impregnated carbon to prevent slippage (bikeahead nsa)

horrible sketch in attempt to get idea across (yep, those orange masses represent Morph hinges on a carbon bar). Kind of wish Frank would team up with Nick Salazar on this bar:

I fail to see how full carbon construction would "take the bar to the next level".
What advantage to you think it will impart?
Weight - Maybe/Maybe not. Perhaps the joints could be built in carbon but likely they'd end up being metal parts bonded to carbon. Any point?
Strength/Reliability - Probably not. It's easier to understand the stresses with metals or homogeneous plastics.
Aerodynamic savings through shaping? - Maybe/Maybe not. In the bullhorn position, aerodynamics isn't very important. Conventional bars are designed with aerofoiled base bars primarily to reduce their drag while in the aero position. In this case there is no base bar while in the aero position. It's difficult to see a way to shape the bar for drag reductions in bullhorn position without adding drag and/or reducing "configurability" in the much more important aero position. Form should follow function. Everything else is just marketing nonsense. In the long run people will come to appreciate the shapes that are most effective, not the ones designed to follow a trend.

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

If you keep a similar shape as today's bar, you can easily make a stronger and lighter bar using carbon fiber with a honeycomb core.

Do you mean just the bar itself or the cockpit as a whole?
Have you any argument as to why you think this is true? The assertion alone isn't convincing.
It doesn't seem quite so obvious to me that carbon would be particularly beneficial, and I'm not entirely ignorant on the subject.
Carbon manufacturing for something like this has a lot of downsides and sometimes the upside is nothing more than public perception. In this case, especially for a first release, aluminium alloy seems better than carbon to me. In the long term it may remain so or it may not.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Benv] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 7:15

Post #65 of 172 (6122 views)

Benv wrote:

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

If you keep a similar shape as today's bar, you can easily make a stronger and lighter bar using carbon fiber with a honeycomb core.[/quote]
I don't see a carbon/honeycomb core working with the current linkage design.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 7:20

Post #66 of 172 (6117 views)

GreenPlease wrote:

Benv wrote:

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

If you keep a similar shape as today's bar, you can easily make a stronger and lighter bar using carbon fiber with a honeycomb core.

I don't see a carbon/honeycomb core working with the current linkage design.[/quote]It can easily work - I work for a company that makes composite products for aerospace including tons of products consisting of carbon fiber with a honeycomb core. While I haven't seen the MORF bar in person I don't see any problems to include a linkage - we do something very similar in some of our products today.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 7:26

Post #67 of 172 (6112 views)

Tom A. wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

As a design engineer, I say you're spot on...if only more people would apply this to the concept of bicycle rims NEEDING to be made out of a single material too :-/

I'm an engineer too. Coincidence? ;)
Wheels are a great example. My race wheels are Swiss Side Hadrons. Aluminium alloy rim and carbon fairing. When I went looking for deep section wheels, I couldn't think of any good reason why carbon was the best rim material for my needs. However, I could think of several reasons why it wasn't. So I got alloy rims.

Last edited by: Ai_1: Jan 5, 17 7:29

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Benv] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 7:47

Post #68 of 172 (6085 views)

Benv wrote:

GreenPlease wrote:

Benv wrote:

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

If you keep a similar shape as today's bar, you can easily make a stronger and lighter bar using carbon fiber with a honeycomb core.

I don't see a carbon/honeycomb core working with the current linkage design.

It can easily work - I work for a company that makes composite products for aerospace including tons of products consisting of carbon fiber with a honeycomb core. While I haven't seen the MORF bar in person I don't see any problems to include a linkage - we do something very similar in some of our products today.[/quote]
Could it be done in theory? Sure. It would be unnecessarily expensive and you'd have to mold in steel pins in certain areas.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 8:52

Post #69 of 172 (6056 views)

No need for molding - there are suitable inserts that can be added afterwards.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Benv] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 8:57

Post #70 of 172 (6050 views)

Benv wrote:

No need for molding - there are suitable inserts that can be added afterwards.

Benv - PM Sent!! Great feedback all, thank you!!

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 9:12

Post #71 of 172 (6038 views)

Tom A. wrote:

Frank-S wrote:

Pic, let's hope I get this one right, trying to post a pic from an iPhone.

http://tinypic.com/...?pic=2h4hvs5&s=9

Fixed it for ya ;-)

I dig the black. It hides the joints and makes it look smoother instead of bolted together. Nice!

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 9:49

Post #72 of 172 (6008 views)

Ai_1 wrote:

Benv wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

milesthedog wrote:

I've stated this in another Morph thread, and I love the attention the bar is getting. But here's what I think could take the bar to the next level:

full carbon construction
enve p5x style stem that is universal, can work on any frame. silicone impregnated carbon to prevent slippage (bikeahead nsa)

horrible sketch in attempt to get idea across (yep, those orange masses represent Morph hinges on a carbon bar). Kind of wish Frank would team up with Nick Salazar on this bar:

I fail to see how full carbon construction would "take the bar to the next level".
What advantage to you think it will impart?
Weight - Maybe/Maybe not. Perhaps the joints could be built in carbon but likely they'd end up being metal parts bonded to carbon. Any point?
Strength/Reliability - Probably not. It's easier to understand the stresses with metals or homogeneous plastics.
Aerodynamic savings through shaping? - Maybe/Maybe not. In the bullhorn position, aerodynamics isn't very important. Conventional bars are designed with aerofoiled base bars primarily to reduce their drag while in the aero position. In this case there is no base bar while in the aero position. It's difficult to see a way to shape the bar for drag reductions in bullhorn position without adding drag and/or reducing "configurability" in the much more important aero position. Form should follow function. Everything else is just marketing nonsense. In the long run people will come to appreciate the shapes that are most effective, not the ones designed to follow a trend.

Carbon fiber is a wonderful material for many, many applications. However it's not universally "better", despite public perception. Yes, for plenty applications it does permit more design flexibility, weight reductions, etc, but that doesn't mean anything not made of carbon is inferior or missing a trick. I'd sooner have something well engineered in aluminium alloy, steel or titanium, than half-assed in carbon any day.

If you keep a similar shape as today's bar, you can easily make a stronger and lighter bar using carbon fiber with a honeycomb core.

Do you mean just the bar itself or the cockpit as a whole?
Have you any argument as to why you think this is true? The assertion alone isn't convincing.
It doesn't seem quite so obvious to me that carbon would be particularly beneficial, and I'm not entirely ignorant on the subject.
Carbon manufacturing for something like this has a lot of downsides and sometimes the upside is nothing more than public perception. In this case, especially for a first release, aluminium alloy seems better than carbon to me. In the long term it may remain so or it may not.

Very cool design and execution as shown currently. Miles must just be in the business of selling carbon fiber... Or, he's simply an idiot who's always thirsty for more marketing Kool-aid.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 14:52

Post #73 of 172 (5935 views)

Would love to see a day here in the Phoenix area to come see it and give it a test. Looks awesome.

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [aketcher] [ In reply to ]

Jan 5, 17 17:48

Post #74 of 172 (5880 views)

aketcher wrote:

Would love to see a day here in the Phoenix area to come see it and give it a test. Looks awesome.

Sounds good! Send me an email at support@morf-tech.com and we can coordinate it. That goes for anyone in Tucson or Phoenix the week of January 16th.

Thanks!
Frank

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Re: So I Just Rode the MORF-Tech Aerobar... [Frank-S] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 23:02

Post #75 of 172 (5649 views)

FYI, we just posted the new video on the site. It does a better job of showing the bars in action and hopefully further answers some of the previous questions asked. http://www.morf-tech.com

We will be at TruTri sports in Houston this Friday with 3 bikes set up with the bars if anyone is interested in trying them out. Look for the orange tent. Any and all feedback would be most appreciated.

We will also be in Tuscon AZ, January 16th and Phoenix AZ the 17th-19th and can arrange test rides. Email if interested, support@morf-tech.com

Thank you ST for all your fantastic support!
Thanks,
Frank

Thanks,
Frank

http://www.morf-tech.com

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.