I think it's a great rule. I really don't want to see most of you without a shirt on. :)

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

It's been a rule at lots of races - IMNA - for example, for quite awhile now and it's the standard worldwide.

"trinazis"

ouch

What about girls running in sportsbras? Is that ok?

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

It because of all you guys that shave your body.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Nope. Girls shouldn't wear sportsbras ;)

I can't believe I just said that. I am bad.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

How about a fat guy with a Tri -top and speedos?



Chris

**********

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Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

They really should place their focus elsewhere. Like prohibiting weenie huggers.

Yes, you are bad... you are so bad you should be in detention.

If that's what floats your boat, go for it.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

lameass rule. had to buy a manbra or risk dq. what next? manly men required to shave?

wahahahaha!

[reply]Nope. Girls shouldn't wear sportsbras ;)

I can't believe I just said that. I am bad.[/reply]

this is retarded. seriously, until i joined a team and started wearing a one piece, i always raced without a shirt on. and i still unzip/peel that thing back. and any girl who wants to should be able to wear a sportsbra. if a little skin is offensive to someone, well, i think they probably picked the wrong sport.

as far as the slightly larger, unshaved male, wearing a shirt with his little skin tight tri shorts isn't going to make it that much more bearable, is it? i mean, come on.

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navy tri - "we meet our own standards"

The rules and trends are going in the opposite direction. Soon All men will be required to race in Burkas -- make that baggy burkas.

i think the rule is good as it will give a clean crisp and professional look to our sport. this will help to generate members, money and promote the sport in a good light and make it prosperous. yes it is another rule but are you against rules in general or against the wearing a top issue?

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Lee Zohlman, Lead Coach/President
BodyZen Multi Sport Coaching
http://www.bodyzen.com

I gots a little gut i think me in a 'bro' would be more offensive than me without a shirt .... look like a 'wife beater'

Oh good, another rule that's killing this sport. Triathlon has sure come a long way from its early live and let live days, hasn't it? Whose sensibilities are they trying to protect anyway?

How long until we're all forced to wear this at the races?



Screw the rules. Anarchist racing is where it's at!

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It'd be awfully hard to compete in those skates.

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Steve Perkins

personally I am against the rule, which by the way isn't a rule as of yet, it is to be voted on at the next board meeting in a couple of weeks and right now I am leaning towards voting against it.

For those that are saying it is another rule that is killing the sport, it is exactly the opposite. We are finding that in some communities, especially where races are held on Sunday's, these communities are finding it offensive to have people running around the streets half naked. Then when it comes up time to issue permits again the next year for the race, city officials are thinking twice about issuing permits. So as Lee Z. said, this rule makes us all look a little more professional. It may be a rule like this that is saving the sport, not killing it off. That being said, I still don't like the rule even though I very rarely ever race topless.

BTW bigtriguy,

being someone that lost relatives in WW2 to Nazi's and family members that lived through the Nazi occupation of Norway, I find your use of the term trinazi's in this case to be extremely offensive.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Up here in Ontario there are no tris that allow us to go topless. I would if we could since I hate "farmer" tans.

Like I said, it's the standard worldwide - everywhere but the US.

As a veteran triahlon spectator, I think men appear more professional in tops, but it should be up to the individual. Its a race, not a fashion statement.

At the ITU Worlds in Hawaii last October, not only were men required to wear shirts (tops) but they were not allowed to change them in transition. Since it was a non-wet suit swim, you had to wear the same top the entire race, even the swim. You weren't allowed to change for the bike or run unless you layered the clothing.

IMHO this is pretty ridiculous. If USAT does sanction such a rule, I hope it is worded carefully to require tops on the Bike and Run, not in transition.

---

Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.

Outside of swimming how many other sports allow athletes to race topless? The funny thing is that in the past I got reemed for saying sponsors should not be on national team racing kit but now some are arguing against the one good place to put their sponsor's names or logos.

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______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

of course

beach volleyball for one :)

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

As Mike Plumb said, this isn't some bizarre rule that some prude at USAT came up with out of the blue. It is a rule in most countries (even ones where they allow nudity in transition), and comes out of respect for, and need to work with the local communities.

YEAH -- let's make women's tri more spectator friendly and have all women wear string bikini's !!!!

Running.

Stupid rule. Mike, I wonder if those same communities are complaining about people going shirtless in the local 5k? What about people just out running, playing basketball, or whatever without shirts on?

Don't know where you run, but I can't remember the last time I saw a road race or track meet with people running topless.

---

______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

There are far more running races put on and no such rules apply. I wonder if it has something to do with the entire tri ensemble, the tightness of the outfit, etc...I think running split shorts show far more skin than tri shorts.

Stupid rule. Mike, I wonder if those same communities are complaining about people going shirtless in the local 5k? What about people just out running, playing basketball, or whatever without shirts on?
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Totally agreed..What century we are living in???May I ask why people are offended?Have they ever been to a swimming pool or a beach?Or they are offended to watch pro boxing or wrestling or swimming or beach volleyball.

If anybody is offended by a men without a shirt I think he or she has serious issues.

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I see obsessed people.

This is a rule at many if not all of the local races around me. I guess tat I can see the perspective of the 'sunday in the community' opinion, but really, Is a man in a speedo and a man bra any less offensive than the same man without the man bra?

I wear a top to compete, but mostly beause I don't deem myself in good enough shape to go w/o the shirt.

I don't know what the answer is. I just wish that it did not have to be a 'rule', ya know? (kinda like to have the option to shed the shirt befor the nips start to bleed - now that is offensive!)

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This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.

You're kidding me right? With the exception of a few cold winter races every 5k, 10k, 1/2 mary, etc..., I've ever done there are plenty of shirtless runners, particularly near the pointy end, but certainly not excluded to the FOP.

Of course I've done the vast majority of my racing in Texas and Socal...

Like going "Skins" vs. "Shirts"? We did it in high school, except the girls wouldn't play on the "skins" side for some reason.



I wonder if I could legally race wearing only pasties and a banana hammock.

I agree. Anyone that would look down on some guy running with no shirt, or some woman running in a sports bra does have issues.

I'd be willing to bet that those people see more provocative material on the television sets in thier own homes.

Could there be some jealousy towards semi-naked chisled-bodied triathletes? Usually the larger triathletes are not as likely to go topless. But if they did, I don't see what the big deal would be. We all see way worse stuff in movies, TV, and magazines on a dayly basis.

don't get me wrong, I think it is silly that some groups find it offensive that men are running around in races with no tops on, but comparing it to a running race is quite a bit different. Most of the running races I have been too where runners were not wearing a top, they had on some baggie running shorts, this compared to men running and riding around with nothing on but a Speedo. That's a little different. Look at the case of the Newport Triathlon. That race is in jeopardy right now. I don't know the exact reasons (the real reasons), but the city officials don't want to issue permits for the race. If it is because they don't want 500+ people running around their community topless, you can argue all you want about how stupid it is, but the bottom line is, no permits, no race.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

According to USATF:

Rule 143

ATHLETIC ATTIRE

1. In all events competitors must wear clothing that is clean, designed and worn so as not to be objectionable. The clothing must be made of a material that is not transparent even if wet. The competitors must not wear clothing that could impede the view of the judges. Athletes' vest should have the same color on the front and back. This rule shall be enforced by the Clerk of Course for track and road events and the Chief Judge of each field event.

2. In hot weather, an athlete competing in a long distance road run may compete without a top shirt. This ruling will be made by the Referee with the approval of the Games Committee.

So, it looks like it MAY be allowed in a long distance (I assume 1/2 or greater) event only if it is hot, and is at the discretion of the Referee. They also specifically mention not being objectionable, which would have to be judged (at least somewhat) by the local community standards.

Why can't you leave that decision up to the local RD? I live in a beach area, and the triathletes are far more covered than the people they're sharing the beach with. We also race in very hot and extremely humid conditions where many of us have discovered that, yes, it is possible to saturate drylite fabric with enough of your own sweat so that it no longer wicks properly, and to some degree ends up screwing up your body's ability to cool itself when it's already 92F on pavement at 8:30 in the morning.

No one said that women can't wear just a sports bra. It's that because a sports bra is pretty much the bare minimum that they can wear, so the loic is that men should have to wear something as well.

Why does USAT need the rule then? If an RD is having difficulty getting a permit because the powers that be don't want participants topless, then the RD can agree with them that he/she will require all participants to wear tops. No top, you're DQ'd. No need for a federation wide rule.

When someone goes to the beach or swimming pool, they can expect to see people half naked, and it takes their conscious decision to go. If grandma walks out to get her paper and sees 200 half naked triathletes running by, and peeing on her petunias, she gets offended and the race doesn't happen the next year.

The problem is that if it isn't a universal rule, then when someone gets DQ'd for not having a top at a local race that has the rule, they bitch and moan that they weren't told (even though it was in the race packet and announced before the race). This is/was a problem at some races in Ontario, where they have the rule, but get many (obnoxious) Americans.

So that there are uniform, pun intended, rules for all sanctioned triathlons...

I race primarily in north carolina and if its a non wetsuit swim race topless because i hate swimming with a shirtor singlet on and do not want to take the time in t1 or t2 to put one one.

On the USAT site it indicates if you have commentary about the proposed rule change contact them. Does anyone think contacting them will make any differance in the decision making process?

Secondly, why not make the males torso covered rule race specefic? If it offends neighborhoods or the RD thinks it increase the odds that the race permit will get approved then make it a race rule that male torsos remain covered similar to what IMNA used to do. But why impose this rule on all races?

Peace,

RF

When someone goes to the beach or swimming pool, they can expect to see people half naked, and it takes their conscious decision to go. If grandma walks out to get her paper and sees 200 half naked triathletes running by, and peeing on her petunias, she gets offended and the race doesn't happen the next year.
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Who said anything about peeing????People will pee regardless of having a shirt or not.Do not talk around the subject.

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I see obsessed people.

I've done several races that athletes were told prior to racing that shirts must be worn on the bike and run. However, you see those that weren't paying attention and raced shirtless anyway. And as far as I know, there was no consequence or penalty.

It's been a problem at IMNA races as well, where people claim they didn't know about the rule or didn't see it in the race packets...

I personally see the issue of communities not wanting races because it ties up the roads. The locals and merchants complain about the loss of foot traffic as people make their ways to their Starbucks, Piggly Wiggly, and Macy's. We had the BS all the time in the cycling races in Iowa. Plus, you got some serious bible thumper who really needs to hear their sermon that morning and how dare someone blastheme the day of the Sabbath. Plus, sometimes the local sheriff just wants to have a quiet morning to eat his donut in peace instead of standing around at some intersection for hours.

Sorry, I combined two points.

A person has to make the effort to go to the beach or pool and risk exposure to exposed people. It's a different story when it goes running by your house.

The rule is all about getting along with the communities that we depend on to hold races. Even though you think it is no big deal. There are people who will be offended. There are other issues, like people peeing in public, and traffic, that may make more sense, but I don't mind wearing a tri-top to make sure that the race will be around the next year.

"I don't mind wearing a tri-top to make sure that the race will be around the next year."

-------------------------

For races in Michigan, I wouldn't mind either. In fact, I hereby solemnly swear to wear a top in my next race in Michigan.

I don't know, but I just commented. Told them that I won't renew until they vote on the rule. Told them that if the rule is passed, I won't ever join again.

I know it may cost me more in the long run, but its the principle. If the organization is so stupid, I won't be a member. Also some of the races I do are not sanctioned by USAT and with that new company offering insurance to RDs, there may be more non-USAT races in the future.

But what is going on here? European's usually call American's prudes. They don't censor nudity on TV and have nude beaches. In this case, we're being radical because men want to go barechested. I don't get it.

HH

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

"i think the rule is good as it will give a clean crisp and professional look to our sport. this will help to generate members, money and promote the sport in a good light and make it prosperous. yes it is another rule but are you against rules in general or against the wearing a top issue?"

You got to be kidding. I don't do triathlons to look good. I do them to compete. Weather permitting, I prefer to go shirtless because it is cooler, more aero on the bike and means I'm running with less weight (a soaked shirt probably weighs up to a half pound). I also prefer a speedo (ugh!) because it is less restrictive on the run than bike shorts. Has PC infected triathlons now?

Considering it's USA Track and Field, I'm assuming long distance means anything above a mile.

That covers the races out there that actually are USATF certified. Again, the only run races I've done where everyone wore a shirt were very cold at the start and that includes many USATF certified races any many non-USATF races. Granted, I've done most of my racing in the southern US - you're in Michigan, right?

Talk about the tail waggin' the dog. The rules should support the athlete, period. I'm not interested in what Granny thinks of my bare chest or shaved legs. What's next, ... a no "cameltoe" ruling requiring all athletes to wear an official USAT apron? Oh, and if the race temp is below 65', all athletes must wear nip-guards -- we don't want anyone flashing their "high beams" to some innocent bystander. Puh-lease!

At the pre-race dinner @ IMFL 05, they interviewed the oldest woman in the race (she was 70ish). When asked why she continued to compete after all these years, she replied "to see all these sexy young guys ...". She got a great round of applause.

I wonder if my subscription to Runner's World will start arriving in paper wrapper?

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Bike Sherpa
Fully Assembled Bike Transporters
http://www.bikesherpa.com

On the Biblethumper note: At one of the small local races I do every year, on local church leader does the whole race in sleeves and pants (even the swim) just to prove his point that you don't have to wear skin tight clothes to race. He always has a good sermon the week before this race condemning the modesty of the triathletes.

I'm sure he's for the shirt rule. And then after that the pants rule... where would it end?

Agreed. That's why I said the thing about the tightness of the outfit. But really, aren't split shorts a bit more revealing than tri shorts?

The thing is, I bet you what some are actually offended by is guys running around in bannana hammocks and women running around in swimsuits and the rule wouldn't actually stop either of those things.

I'm guessing most would be more offended by the manbra with speedo than by shirtless with trishorts.

You guys crack me up. (not directed only at you, MPB)

Nine out of ten slowtwitchers get creeped out by a guy at the pool wearing a speedo. But everyone thinks it should be just fine to not wear whatever they don't want to wear while inconviencing the locals at some race, running all around their town. Yeah, that's a good idea. Why don't you wear the old white speedos and nothing else for the bike and run, while you're at it.

I mean, after all, any member of the public who might object is a ragingly hypocritical prude, who's probably just jealous of the fine, well chiseled physique of the typical triathlete in action . Bunch of hypocrite, jealous fatties, is what they are. And besides, those tri tops are soooooo heavy when they get weighed down with sweat. It might cost you a shot at Kona.

Good grief, get over yourselves. Put on the freaking shirt and shut up already.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Personally, I'd rather it not be a rule, but it is a small price to pay to have races. I used to race topless, but then I realized that I was getting a tan line from my HRM strap!

I wonder if it is a rule for elite marathoners, all of those guys are wearing singlets.

BTW, it does get hot (and humid) here in Michigan. ;-)

Well Said Go Fast....

It is not about the rules, it is about the state of mind.

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I see obsessed people.

Do you live in the Artic Circle?

I'm sure it's a rule from their sponsors!

Nine out of ten slowtwitchers get creeped out by a guy at the pool wearing a speedo.

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May I ask why?????and how did you figured that out?and what are you wearing when you are at the pool?

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I see obsessed people.

There are plenty of Jammer vs. Speedo threads on ST. Triathletes tend to like Jammers, while real swimmers (ex college, etc.) prefer Speedos.

and how did you figured that out?

I figgered it by the exactingly scientific method of spending way too much time in here generally, and reading I don't know how many posts about the banana hammock wearing creep at the pool.

and what are you wearing when you are at the pool?

Jammers, and that's pushing it. If I ever show up at your pool in a speedo, trust me, you'll know why people get creeped out. Don't make me do it, OK?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

"Good grief, get over yourselves. Put on the freaking shirt and shut up already."

Once again..... you have got to be kidding. It's a race, not a Sunday brunch. One of the race legs is a swim. When you go to the beach are you offended by all of the topless men? Geez.

I have participated in almost 400 races over the years and never once has there been any requirement that we wear a shirt (this is in Chicagoland). I have never heard any complaints from anyone about shirtless runners, bikers or swimmers. Is this Political Correctness raising its ugy head again or what?

Clearly yes. They're trying to keep the people down.

Good grief, can't I wear my shit in peace?

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One of the race legs is a swim.

Yeah. One of the race legs. The shortest leg. The leg that noone is going to see you in.

When you go to the beach are you offended by all of the topless men? Geez.

Do you make a habit of staying on the beach for all your triathlons?

It isn't that I'm offended. I'm not. (OK, I am, but on purely aesthetic grounds. Us triathletes are not typically the Greek gods and goddesses some of you seem to think. Anyway . . ) But I can certainly see how a member of the general public would prefer not to look at an endless stream of mostly naked, huffing and puffing, gangly triathletes shuffle by while he waits for the road to clear so he can get home from breakfast on Sunday morning.

But yeah, I know the shirts are real heavy, so that probably outweighs any impact on the public image.

FWIW, I haven't seen a triathlon that didn't require a top.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Is this Political Correctness raising its ugy head again or what?
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It might be the political correctness raising its ugly head but more than likely it is about people who still think 5-6" material makes the biggest difference in the world.

What a joke!!!!

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I see obsessed people.

Do those come in a 42" waist, small bucket :(



***********

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Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



I can't feel my eyes!....Make the bad man go AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God. I'm sorry cvillatri, what a cruel fate. I hope life smiles on you in other ways.

Best bet is to call Erik Clark.

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Vitus may I ask what you wear when you're out there racing?

The only triathlon between New Orleans and Tallahassee that requires a shirt for men is IMFL. The rest of the RDs wouldn't think of making someone wear a shirt in the kind of conditions that are common here on race day.

Assless chaps.

I still don't get it. Is this a religious thing? Should the women triathletes be required to wear veils so that anyone going to and from their mosques are not scandalized (or are we just worried about the Baptists)?
We see topless males running, biking, swimming, rollerblading and walking all over Chicagoland, and not just in races. When did topless males become a social taboo?

Vitus may I ask what you wear when you're out there racing?

Oh, I keep my wetsuit on the whole time.

What do you mean, what do I wear? I wear the same thing just about everyone else wears- tri shorts and a top. And shoes.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Is that you on the right Vitus?

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When did topless males become a social taboo?

When six hundred sickly looking ones clogged up a small towns roads for half a day, grossing out the population.

But hey, you got first amendment rights, and whatnot. Whatever. So much for being a good guest, I suppose.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

<< I prefer to go shirtless because it is cooler, more aero on the bike

wrong and wrong. Wearing a shirt actually helps to keep the body cooler. If it was cooler to not wear a top, then why doesn't anyone go shirtless at some fo ther eal hot weather races like Badwater? A lot of the races there wear long sleeve tops for two reasons, sun protection and to keep the body cooler. Not necessarily more aero on the bike either. A good fitting top helps smooth out the air flow over a hairy chest. Now going topless would be more aero then wearing a big baggy t-shirt though.

To Rockfish:

<< Does anyone think contacting them will make any differance in the decision making process?

yes it will. I am one of 11 that will vote on this issue. I've had enough people contact me that don't want this rule so that is the way that I will vote. I would suggest that you find out who your board representative is for your region and contact them. Let them know that you don't support this rule and give them some good concrete reasons why. It's called democracy and it's surprising how well it works when you work with it.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

"WIW, I haven't seen a triathlon that didn't require a top."


Are you usually able to beat most of Santa's elves. How about Mrs. Claus? I understand she is quite a runner.

   

sickly looking ones?

sounds to me like you just don't like skinny triathletes. Did any of these sickly guys beat your ass?

I got news for you, whoever finds men running shirtless distasteful won't look kindly on your gay tight lycra outfit either. If you shave your legs, you're already a queer in their book.

Either stop defending the idiots or cover yourself up from head to toe.

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Sorry, but I've raced both with and without shirts and, when it's 90 degrees plus, I'm cooler, more aero on the bike (I don't like those tight fitting tri-tops), and lighter on the run when I go shirtless.

sickly looking ones?

sounds to me like you just don't like skinny triathletes.

Ha! I am one of the skinny, sickly looking ones. Though slower than most of the others, I grant.

How much time can I make up by ditching that oh-so-heavy shirt?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Please inform them that the contact link they have set up does not work. The address is tbd@____. I guess their contact person to receive comments is still to be determined.

HH

I'm not paying my renewal till I know that this rule has been killed.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

that's cool ;-)

science doesn't agree with you, but to each his own. Like I said, I don't agree with the rule and won't vote for it, but I do wear a top in every race, it keeps me cooler and is more aero for me :-)

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Decent response:)

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Would any of our friends who race ACOTUS (any country outside the US) chime in? Shirt required or not? If you are a woman who races ACOTUS, is the sports bra acceptable or is a coverup required. I think the sports bra meets the regulation.

Alex

<< Please inform them that the contact link they have set up does not work. The address is tbd@____. I guess their contact person to receive comments is still to be determined.

they've been informed of that. Like I said though, for better action, contact your national board person for your region, that is who is actually voting on it.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Thanks Mike.

Count me in as one who does not like wearing shirts while racing.

Now why can't they have that rule at NFL football games regarding the fans? I had to see some really ugly bellies last football season on tv.

"But I can certainly see how a member of the general public would prefer not to look at an endless stream of mostly naked, huffing and puffing, gangly triathletes shuffle by while he waits for the road to clear so he can get home from breakfast on Sunday morning. "

--------------------

and you think adding shirts is going to make him more excited to wait to get home from breakfast?

I just don't believe that running or biking without a shirt on a causing any races to be cancelled. If someone is disgusted by topless male triathletes, I think they will find tight lycra shorts (hardly mainstream ya know) offensive as well.

and you think adding shirts is going to make him more excited to wait to get home from breakfast?

I think mainly it's a matter of courtesy and neighborliness. No, it isn't going to cause any races to get cancelled. But why irritate people in their own backyard over something so trivial as this?

Whatever, though. I can see that this is obviously the issue that's going to rouse the USAT membership to arms. "Hell, no, you can't make me wear a shirt! Who are you, the Taliban?!"

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Would any of our friends who race ACOTUS (any country outside the US) chime in? Shirt required or not? If you are a woman who races ACOTUS, is the sports bra acceptable or is a coverup required. I think the sports bra meets the regulation.

Alex
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Anything goes in Phuket(Thailand)triathlon.

http://www.lagunaphuket.com/...y/photo_2005-05.html

Greg Bennet (pro) winner 2005

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I see obsessed people.

Oops, let me try that again......



I'll be taking Mike P's advice & contacting my rep. I'll encourage him/her to vote against changing the rule.

Instead of mandating a change to all, the "offended" venues can simply request a rule waiver with their sanction application to require all participants wear shirts/cover their tops at their particular venue.

This is the same process IMNA used for years to require tops in their races when they were using USAT rules (ahh, the good old days). So the method is in place for each venue to get what they want rather than mandating a change. The RD just has to reqest it and thus make it a "local" rule.

Everybody gets what they want with no rule change.

JA

The majority of people at Phuket triathlon *do* wear a shirt.

I've done races in 1/2 dozen countries in all conditions (including Thailand) and have always worn a shirt.

I have no problem if the rule is implemented - but then, I have no say as I am outside the US.

In Australia, you must wear a shirt for EVERY triathlon. I always thought it was an ITU rule.

*by shirt, it states clearly that your nipples must be covered at all times. So cropt op ok.

I believe it is so as not to cause offence to spectators. (Personally i dont find them that offensive!!)

I always think its weird when i see pics of you guys racing nude- "hide them hide them!!" i shout.

True story.

I was shopping around for shoe sponsor back in the mid 80's to help me with my triathlon racing. I approached the president of one of the leading brands. He was interested, but he said, "All you triathletes race with no shirt on! Where is my logo supposed to go?" He had a point. So after that I always wore a shirt. I had sponsors from the get go back then, and it was typically in the contract that I would wear the sponsors top while racing at all times.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The majority of people at Phuket triathlon *do* wear a shirt

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I did not say they *do not* what I said was:

"Anything goes" meaning you are FREE to wear or not to wear a shirt.

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I see obsessed people.

If the 'reason' is because of 'community pressure' move the race to a different community. Just the possibility of losing some 'community revenue' will likely change their tune.

My own guess? Most of the communities that object are populated by obese whiners...

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gbassett.com

<< If the 'reason' is because of 'community pressure' move the race to a different community. Just the possibility of losing some 'community revenue' will likely change their tune.

great idea, we'll just blow off the communities that don't like us and move to one of the many communities that are lining up waiting for a triathlon to come to their town. That's such an endless list, no problem. Much better idea then trying to work with where we already have races in place.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Mike -

I hear you. And my reaction was knee-jerk at best, for which I apologize.. I don't known your resume, but I'm guessing that you've put on more than a few races, for which you have my complete and sincere respect.

But sheesh, you would think that the town would have a lot more to worry about than topless male athletes? How are the schools? Homeless? Crime? Property Taxes? 1000's of other priorities, and they choose this to focus more than 5 seconds of effort?

It's my personal opinion that the only way to eliminate ignorance is to confront it at every opportunity. Call it out, expose it to sunlight, fight, fight, fight and never surrender...

Then again, once I'm king, changes will be made...

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gbassett.com

Mike,

Thanks for the response, and I do respect your input and applaud your work with USAT. I do know who my regional rep is (Vigo). But I would hardly call the process at USAT democratic or even close. I find it odd that Vigo is the RD of the largest race in the Region, Eagleman, but that race is not USAT sanctioned. If that is not hypocritical representation I do not know what is?

In any event I will contact him and the contact name on this site, but I have yet to see the USAT change a decision or proposed rule on the basis of input from its membership.

As a side, I am RD-ing a youth race and USAT has been a huge help planning the race and answering countless questions that have been presented.


Kind Regards,

RF

Here is an old school pic where most of us didn't like wearing shirts, even on the bike. This was a half Ironman too. THe shirtless are Molina, Tinley, Riccitello, and yours truly. Mark Allen just launched a new clothing line with Nike, or he would have been bare back, and RIck Wells should have been with that floppy T-shirt he's wearing.

http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=r0bhih

Good point that if you have sponsors to represent, tops are the likely spot. Just don't think that we need a rule to force the issue. As for the being offensive to the communtiy arguement, come on now, do we plan our sport around a COUPLE of squeaky wheels. I can't believe that this is a widespread belief through the communities in America, so let's not make this a more complicated issue than it should be. It's a frigging shirt after all......

Rock,

actually Vigo is not your Board member representing you. He is on a regional board but not the National board. I believe your person to contact is Rob Kasper. Rob represents the mid Atlantic region.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

For those who are concerned about overheating when it's super hot outside, why don't they make the rule such that torsos must be covered except in extreme conditions at the discretion of the RD?

Mike,

I agree with you that a USAT-wide rule change is not necessary on this issue. However, I would like to respectfully express my displeasure about how this issue is being put before the membership.

The press release, though dated February 22, was not posted on the USAT website until March 8.

The press release suggests that the proposal was favorably considered at the Global Rules Summit. However, it has been reported at InsideTriathlon.com that the proposal was actually rejected by a 6-3 vote (http://www.insidetri.com/news/fea/3175.0.html).

Although the rule has not been changed, a section of the USAT website titled �Membership � Latest News� has a false presentation of this issue, stating �USA Triathlon reminds athletes that torso (upper body) clothing is required during the cycling and running disciplines� (http://www.usatriathlon.org/Membership/membership_news.htm) and continues with a discussion that this rule is �targeted for special emphasis� and that it is �an important rule� for a number of reasons.

I took USAT up on the offer to make comments on the issue per the press release. As you know, the e-mail link for comment submission was not valid. Even if it was, your comments seem to suggest that they shouldn't be sent into USAT at all but rather to individual board members. Is that correct?

I am upset by what I perceive to be a pattern of problems that USAT has experienced in communicating with its membership, to include press releases that are misleading, untimely, and/or inadequate, and the lack of other communication to the membership at all. (e.g. what other Global Summit issues will be voted on at the next meeting?) I am fully supportive of USAT�s direction, insofar that it has strived to become relevant to event organizers and sponsors, but feel that the national organization has to make a sincere effort to correct its pattern of errors and effectively communicate with the membership. Incidents like these only continue to hurt USAT's image and, consequently, the membership's perception of relevancy in USAT.



Thank you.

USAT is looking for the right combination of poor judgment and intellectually lazy board members that will push them over the top...of the cliff. We should all do our part and support this suggestion.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Does anyone know of a race that has been canceled because of shirtless males. I doubt it. People need to lighten up.

Come on everyone, let's face the truth, you American 'studs' just love showing off your pecs. Racing a triathlon shirtless is just the same as the guys on the LA beaches pumping iron. You think you look good and you want everyone else to know it. It is a culture thing.

Here in London you can run round the parks on a hot day in the middle of summer and, at most, you will see one or two guys running with their shirts off (and they are almost certainly American). During a stay in New York last summer I noticed it was the norm for guys running round the park to have no shirt on, along with their Oakley shades.

Nothing wrong with it...

... for a bunch of posers.

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Richard Melik | I work for the following companies | Zwift.com | Freespeed Bike Fit (UK)
Manager | David McNamee

RF-

Like Mike, I'm on the Board as well, and am reading this thread to figure out which way I should vote (yes, representative democracy just might work). But, Vigo is not your rep (actually, I am). Vigo WAS on the board, but is not currently.

Although I see lots of posts objecting to the rule, I also think we should be sensitive to local preferences. Yup, there will always be people out on the radical fringe (in all directions), but to work with local officials to make our races most attractive to them really does seem to be the way to go. With races closing out as fast as they are these days, we need more places to race, not fewer. Anything that we can "reasonably" do to be neighborly, we should do.

All that being said, I do like the idea of leaving the issue to the RD to determine, based upon their discussions during the permit process.

And to ditto Mike: Everyone really should be in touch with the national board member who represents your region on issues you feel strongly about. We are here to represent our members and to grow the sport. That doesn't necessarily mean that we have to "agree" with them, but after listening to everyone's concerns, our responsibility (IMHO) is to vote based on ALL the information available, and what we think will be best for the sport, overall. We'd love it to be universally accepted, but I'm sure nobody on this site really expects unanimous agreement on the issues that really are important.

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Chuck Graziano

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who are we to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be..." Nelson Mandella, 1994

Its a race, not a fashion statement.

There's one statement I never thought I'd hear about triathlon.

Given the coloration and patterns of tri equipment and clothing, I'd say for many people it is a fashion statement ... MOF it may be a fashion show.

Amazing that the sport that is characterized by the speedo and shaved legs takes a firm stand again running without a shirt on.

It'd be hilarioius if it wasn't so absurd.

The alterative, of course, is guys that wear such little shirt that the rule's basically a mockery anyway.

Was this really a pressing issue that demanded a formal rule?

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

Here in London you can run round the parks on a hot day in the middle of summer and, at most, you will see one or two guys running with their shirts off (and they are almost certainly American). During a stay in New York last summer I noticed it was the norm for guys running round the park to have no shirt on, along with their Oakley shades.

Nothing wrong with it...

... for a bunch of posers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Milky,

I've spent a lot of time in London and I always saw more people than Central Park shirtless, tanning and lying around or playing ball and such in Hyde Park. Including a lot of women tanning in their bikinis.Does this make them posers?

Whenever the sun shines in England everybody exposes as much skin as they can to catch some rays and there is nothing wrong with it.

Also, last time I saw, not only men but also topless women was totally accepted all over the Europe including England.

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I see obsessed people.

The clothing must be made of a material that is not transparent even if wet.

Obviously that doesn't apply to the athlete on the cover of the "25th Anniversary of Ironman" book who is donning a white tri-suit, soaked with sweat and unfortunately for everyone else ... largely see-through.

Can I run without a shirt if I put those circle band-aids over my nipples? =) What if I run with just my index fingers covering them? Now, there's a funny thursday image!

ON a serious note, I can see where having tri-tops does add to the professional look of the sport ... and well, the people that make the rules likely look at it as more sport than hobby, and don't really equate a race to "some dude running 3 miles , on his own, without a shirt.

I'm all for a rule that bans Record10Carbon's cycling shoes. =)

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I think it's just a big conspiracy to flood the world with tri-tops while the triathlon clothing companies try to take over the world.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

I still c an't believe they didn't notice that before they published it...at least it gave them a good place to put a sticker!

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything ... but please, next time, give me a formal request in writing, to use my image/likeness in your post. I am trying to make a living modeling those "eyepatches" (as I like to cal them).

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Do those come in a 42" waist, small bucket

THanks, I needed that. =)

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Would any of our friends who race ACOTUS (any country outside the US) chime in?

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa ... you just can't up and make an acronym. There's a process to it. Isn't there a rule against JUACYOA (Just Up And Creating Your Own Acronym)?

The best part about acronyms is when the person (both you and I) go ahead and type out the whole thing directly behind the acronym in parenthesis.

Alright, time to dome work. later.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

That is a good point, Doubleplay, and that is kind of what I am saying. In Europe, we are very comfortable with exposing skin or having it exposed around us.

The difference is the attitude that comes across from someone running with no shirt on... I am very fit and want the world to know it... As I said, it is like the LA beaches. Of course, people on the beach are going to laze around without a shirt getting some sun and that is fine, but if you are going to pump some heavy weights by the side of the road, put a t shirt on otherwise (in my view) you are a class A poser.

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Richard Melik | I work for the following companies | Zwift.com | Freespeed Bike Fit (UK)
Manager | David McNamee

>>Also, last time I saw, not only men but also topless women was totally accepted all over the Europe including England.<<

Yes, but they don't race that way.

And how many people bitching in this thread are actually USAT members? Just curious.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

In Bermuda you never see anyone running without a shirt on. Well, not locals anyhow. All races require shirts, it really isn't a big deal to put it on, and it looks a lot better for spectators.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

It's pretty funny to see the stuff that people get all fired up about on this forum.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

From the country that brought us Bermuda shorts I'd expect that they'd insist on everyone wearing a shirt.

They are a brilliant fashion statement. Especially in pink with white knee socks and a nice blazer.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You need to get out more. FWIW, I have never done a triathlon that did require a top.

From our local sprint triathlon:

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Those photos are proof of why the rule is necessary ;P

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That's human nature for ya. People can make a big issue out of the silliest things. Why were so many lives ruined on account of gold in the history of the world? Simply because folks liked the way it looked way back when, and then it blossomed into a status symbol that was worth killing for. Don't mess with people's sense of aesthetics. It is primal, and this is why you see people take up arms about the shirt issue.

The more rules that are slapped on triathlon to make it look "professional" and "neighborly", the more it is going to alienate a faction of us who cherish our freedoms and our individuality. Those peeps would have to take their marbles and go elsewhere (non USAT events, events that don't restrict them so much, or a different sport altogether) to get their kicks... which is cool with me.

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I had no idea this topic/thread was involving USAT board members. My answers would not change.
I'm still puzzled why this is even an issue. My guess is that, if there are any complainers about topless males, they would represent less than 1% of the participants and spectators. Therefore, if a good percentage of the competitors want the option to go topless for speed or safety reasons (that would be me) or vanity (that would be someone else), their wishes should not be overriden by a very small minority.
BTW, these people who are complaining must hate when swimming is televised at the Summer Olympics. They probably abhor boxing and beach volleyball also.

From reading your posts I am dying to know these speed and safety reasons. I really want to see proof that your body, with seat, hair, various lumps and divots from muscle and or fat is more aero then a form fitting top or that wicking materiels are somehow less safe then topless.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

The "very small minority" of which you speak are the people who hold a veto over the very existence of any given race. Without their blessing, those competitors won't have the opportunity to risk their health or vanity.

I'm one who wants the option to race without a shirt (sweat, nipple issues), but an RD has got to do what must be done to get the permits. That said, having a blanket rule is the wrong approach.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I agree with your reasoning. If it's no shirt/no race, let's all wear shirts to appease the locals. If the locals don't care, which apparently is the case in Chicagoland, then USAT shouldn't make it an issue. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

May I see the science behind that statement. My perception is: in hot, humid weather, any shirt, any material feels hotter to me. When the water in the material can't evaporate, how can it be cooler?

"From reading your posts I am dying to know these speed and safety reasons. I really want to see proof that your body, with seat, hair, various lumps and divots from muscle and or fat is more aero then a form fitting top or that wicking materiels are somehow less safe then topless."


OK. Go here to see me in all my aero topless slendor. I had just blown by that PC guy in the shirt. That's certainly irrefutable proof that shirtless is faster.

http://tinypic.com/htbezd.jpg

It is probably better for USAT to have it the other way around. Make it a rule, but it's still up to local RD's to decide how closely to enforce it. The RD doesn't look like an ogre for enforcing it, people can't complain that they didn't know about the (local) rule, and if the community bitches, the RD can't say that the national governing body allows it. The only catch would be if you win the race without a shirt on because you thought the RD would let it slide, and the guy you beat decides to make a stink, and gets you DQ'd.

[reply]"From reading your posts I am dying to know these speed and safety reasons. I really want to see proof that your body, with seat, hair, various lumps and divots from muscle and or fat is more aero then a form fitting top or that wicking materiels are somehow less safe then topless."


OK. Go here to see me in all my aero topless slendor. I had just blown by that PC guy in the shirt. That's certainly irrefutable proof that shirtless is faster.

http://tinypic.com/htbezd.jpg[/reply]

That's what I thought, no proof, just making stuff up to make your case look better.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

This whole thread speaks to several things:

1. How utterly absurd this sport can get.

2. That there will always be in the sport of triathlon a maverick fringe( or maybe even mainstream) that want to do it THEIR way no matter what the rules say or the laws of physics and physiology say.

3. There has always been a movment in this sport to wear as little clothing as possible at all times. Not that I agree with that at all as I routinely see triathletes sun-burned to heck and/or freezing to death from a lack of proper clothing. It's not about rules - it's about common sense.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I had to get up and look at the cover of my copy of that book... Is it just me or is his shirt on backwards?

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gbassett.com

"The only catch would be if you win the race without a shirt on because you thought the RD would let it slide, and the guy you beat decides to make a stink, and gets you DQ'd."

Don't know for sure, but if its like the regular nudity rule, I think you would just get time added on, not DQ'd.

[reply]I had to get up and look at the cover of my copy of that book... Is it just me or is his shirt on backwards?[/reply]

I thought the exact same thing.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

<< The press release, though dated February 22, was not posted on the USAT website until March 8.

not sure of the exact reason for this, could be any number of things. I know there is a process involved and that even though a press release may be written on one day, it has to be approved by a couple of different people/committees before it is actually released. Then it has to go to the webmaster to be put up on the website. Still, I agree that a difference 9 business days is a lot. I believe the press release has now been pulled from the website.

<< The press release suggests that the proposal was favorably considered at the Global Rules Summit. However, it has been reported at InsideTriathlon.com that the proposal was actually rejected by a 6-3 vote

unfortunetely the Inside Triathlon article does not give much commentary on this, just the vote. I have looked at the transcripts from teh Rules Summit and yes the vote taken was a 6-3 vote against making this a rule, but the discussion was different, seven of the nine agreed with no bare torso. But when it came to voting to make it a rule, things changed. This tell me one thing, the idea is good but shouldn't be a blanket rule across the board for all races.

<< Although the rule has not been changed, a section of the USAT website titled �Membership � Latest News� has a false presentation of this issue, stating �USA Triathlon reminds athletes that torso (upper body) clothing is required during the cycling and running disciplines� (http://www.usatriathlon.org/Membership/membership_news.htm) and continues with a discussion that this rule is �targeted for special emphasis� and that it is �an important rule� for a number of reasons.

yes, I agree that is kind of misleading and I think getting ahead of things. It's not a rule and is possibly up for consideration for becoming a rule, but as of right now, it is not a rule.

<< your comments seem to suggest that they shouldn't be sent into USAT at all but rather to individual board members. Is that correct?

your comments can always be sent to the National office. But you should also be in touch with representative Board member. It is the board member that is voting on this issue and that will dictate what the national office does. It never hurts to let the national office know how you feel, but when it comes to voting on something, let your board member know how you want them to vote.

<< what other Global Summit issues will be voted on at the next meeting?

the bare torso rule is the only one that I am aware of at this point and thanks in part to the commentary on this site it may not even get voted on now and be scraped. So to those that don't think democracy doesn't work, it does and it is working now.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

1. USAT Member here

2. I wear a top when I race (but have done a few races with no top)

3. I do not want a Rule saying I HAVE to wear a top.

It actually pisses me off that there are so many problems in this sport that they should be focusing on - that they are burning up time and energy on wearing a shirt.

They need to come up with better ways to do waves starts. Better ways to control drafting. Etc. etc. I am sick and tired of starting in wave 6 or 8 or 10 (thanks to my age) and having to weave through 200 people on the bike -- AND having these young bucks who can't swim worth a sh*t jumping on my back wheel and drafting into T2 !!

USAT needs to pull thier head out of thier Ass and concentrate on what is important and NOT on wheather to pass a rule whether to wear a shirt or not.

The athlete who loads up on EPO and steriods and drafts his ass off and cuts the course is fine -- but disqualify the guy who forgets to put on his shirt!!!



How about spending some time on communitee advocacy on making the roads safer for us to train upon!! To many triathletes have been killed and injured bicycling on unsafe roads. And they want us to "wear shirts" ????

Warning, to those viewing in Amish counties or countries where skin might offend, please skip this post!



I warned you!









Here's me. To tell the truth, I cannot remember doing a race (triathlon, 5k, 10k, 1/2 Marathon) with a top on since I started racing in 1997ish.

California racer, though, almost always shirtless weather.

Chris

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Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

"I also think we should be sensitive to local preferences."

agreed. i think we also ought to be sensitive to our own sport's major themes. i think we can do both at the same time.

triathlon -- essentially an individual, maverick, boundary-testing phenomenon -- represents the best example i can think of where the government which governs least governs the best. there are no churchgoers crossing the ride or run course on which a certain percentage of Wildflower's 9000 participants are shirtless -- and a certain number of its aid station volunteers are more than shirtless ;-)

as has been brought to the attention of you and mike by others during this discussion, USAT allows RDs the right to add rules that USAT does not mandate. this discussion is a little like federal versus state's rights. USAT ought to have a minimum standard, and if RDs want to impose additional rules, let them do so according, as you wisely state, to "local preferences." it seems hard to me to reconcile the idea of "national rule" with the idea of being "sensitive to local preferences."

if USAT just added to its sanction package a note about the sensitivities of certain urban or conservate communities to this issue, the RD can judge for himself what's appropriate for his race. if you impose yet another rule, and another, you're throwing rule-weary RDs into NATA's arms (and there's always going to be a NATA-like organization waiting to take advantage of USAT's missteps).

why don't you figure out which rules you really need? and then resist the temptation to levy additional rules, and please let us not bring the itu's desire for "global rules" into this very provincial issue. if/when the ITU actually does honor (i mean TRULY honor) those elements of triathlon other than pro and junior ITU racing, then it's earned the right to ask for global rules. until then, USAT ought to resist the urge to scratch the ITU's back if it means turning its own back on its constituents. please don't let global rules enter into this issue EXCEPT where there is a global commitment to that element of the sport (such as those few ITU-style races in the U.S.). otherwise, we're going to end up with a set of rules that all the world's "local communities" can live with. i personally don't want a set of rules that takes into consideration the sensibilities of those who live in cyprus, or iceland, or morocco.

you can always add this shirt/shirtless rule later if it becomes an imminent need. until then, the sport in the U.S. is keeping an eye on USAT, to see whether it's earning the right to expect our loyalties over GTG, NATA, and whatever else may come.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"the bare torso rule is the only one that I am aware of at this point and thanks in part to the commentary on this site it may not even get voted on now and be scraped. So to those that don't think democracy doesn't work, it does and it is working now."

Come on, give credit where credit is due. It was my aero toplesss picture I posted which caused everyone to realize what a shame it would be to have a hunk like me have to cover up.

I hope you vote against this rule Mike. If ultra-conservative church goers are going to complain about shirtless men, then they will also complain about men in skin tight shorts and shirts. And if we keep giving in to their complaints we will have to race in MC Hammer pants and parkas. People will still complain though because their real problem is that we are inconviencing them by being on the road. I like racing without a top in hot, short races.

Purdue finally got a trophy from 05 Nationals. I'm guessing you had something to do with this, if so I'd like to thank you for coming through when so many others had failed.

Scott

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"Triathlon" is a misspell according to the Slowtwitch spell checker.

I'm sitting here looking at about 6 different pics from recent road races, and I'm seeing quite a few topless guys. Including my husband (woo hoo!).

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Dan,

Why does there have to be a rule. I routinley see triathletes sun burned to heck, or with leathery wrinkled skin from way too much sun exposure or nearly freezing to death from wearing a too little clothing while training or racing. Why does there have to be a rule. Why can't it be about common sense!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

<< Purdue finally got a trophy from 05 Nationals. I'm guessing you had something to do with this, if so I'd like to thank you for coming through when so many others had failed.

don't know if I am directly responsible for that, but I did bring it up and hopefully that greased the wheels. End result is a happy ending though.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

"I routinley see triathletes sun burned to heck, or with leathery wrinkled skin from way too much sun exposure or nearly freezing to death from wearing a too little clothing while training or racing."

i'm with you, bro. i've raced with a top for years. i NEVER race bare from the waist up (nor do i ride/run with speedos).

i ride and run in a sleeveless cycling jersey, unless it's cold, in which case i'm bundled like nanook of the north (i HATE being cold). i had something like a 7 minute swim-to-bike transition in wildflower one year, because it was so damned cold and i dressed for it. it was the only year i've made the top-3 in my AG in that race.

i don't dislike the rule because i want to race shirtless, i just dislike the whole idea of rules in triathlon, save those absolutely necessary.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

the best example i can think of where the government which governs least governs the best

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dan,

Very well said.

I am also a USAT member and totally believe this is not about wearing a shirt or not but somebody trying to tell me what to wear for a race.Triathlon is a fairly new sport but nevertheless has a tradition of guys racing without shirts.

On a side note I do not race without a shirt but I want my options to be open.As I said before anybody who is offended from a man who is not wearing a shirt have serious issues.They also have the option of looking the other way.

I would also cancel my membership if the committee passes a rule telling me to wear a shirt or man bra or whatever.

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I see obsessed people.

But why a rule, couldn't it be left up to the individual RD? If the particular community was likely to have a problem with shirtless races, shirts could be required for that race.

Imagine what the NFL, NHL or MLB would be like if they had had the same attitude through their history.

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______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

Pay me a million dollars a year (much less 8, 10, 15 million a year) -- And you can tell me what uniform to wear - what clothes to wear to a press conferance - what clothes to wear on an airplane etc. etc.

[reply][reply]
Imagine what the NFL, NHL or MLB would be like if they had had the same attitude through their history. [/reply]


Pay me a million dollars a year (much less 8, 10, 15 million a year) -- And you can tell me what uniform to wear - what clothes to wear to a press conferance - what clothes to wear on an airplane etc. etc.[/reply]

Apparently that point was on that airplane that flew over your head. Think about some of the rules that have been put into those sports and where they would be with the attitude displayed here about something as stupid as wearing a shirt. I am surprised that many of you are not trying to repeal helmet rules in races.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

Leave it up to the RD period. If a RD finds they have a problem and feels that they need to make a rule, then so be it.

I can not believe this is even an issue at the national level. Doesn't USAT or ITU or whatever have better things to do then to add this as a rule or even bring it up for a vote.

excellent post. very compelling arguments.

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Where would you want to swim ?

The biggest shock/surprise to me regarding this thread is that more vain athletes haven't used it as another opportunity to post a pic of themselves... esp that they can post one here shirtless. Shocking.

If you did squats you might be able to beat that chick out of transition, Ken...

;-P

<< May I see the science behind that statement. My perception is: in hot, humid weather, any shirt, any material feels hotter to me. When the water in the material can't evaporate, how can it be cooler?

1: Ergonomics. 2004 Aug 15;47(10):1073-86. Related Articles, Links

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2001 Aug;33(8):1385-6. Related Articles, Links

Ultraviolet exposure in the Ironman triathlon.

Moehrle M.

Department of Dermatology, University of Tuebingen, Germany. matthias.moehrle@med.uni-tuebingen.de

PURPOSE: Skin cancer is increasing worldwide and exposure to ultraviolet (UV) radiation is thought to be the most important environmental risk factor. People practicing outdoor sports are exposed to considerable amounts of UV radiation from the sun. METHODS: Three triathletes participated in the Ironman Triathlon World Championships 1999 in Hawaii (3.9-km swim, 180.2-km bike, 42.4-km run). They attached Bacillus subtilis spore film dosimeters (VioSpor) on the back between their shoulders. The dosimeter system measured cumulative biologically weighted erythemal UV exposure. UV exposure is given in minimal erythema doses (1 MED corresponds to 250 J x m(-2) at 298 nm). RESULTS: The mean personal UV exposure was 8.3 MED (6.9--9.7 MED) after 8:43 to 9:44 h of competition corresponding to 0.8 to 1.3 MED x h(-1) (bike and run). The athletes were sunburned despite the use of water-resistant sunscreen (SPF 25+) on sun exposed skin. CONCLUSION: The International Radiation Protection Agency has issued guidelines for professional UV exposure. Ironman triathletes considerably exceeded these limits of exposure similar to other outdoor sports. Professional and amateur athletes should be aware of hazards caused by UV radiation. Adequate protection by water-resistant sunscreens and clothing as well as training and competition schedules with low sun exposure seem to be a reasonable recommendation.

PMID: 11474342 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Cardiovascular and thermal consequences of protective clothing: a comparison of clothed and unclothed states. Fogarty A, Armstrong K, Gordon C, Groeller H, Woods B, Stocks J, Taylor N. Humn Performance Laboratories Department of Biomedical Science University of Wollongong Australia.

We have undertaken a laboratory-based examination of the cardiovascular and thermal impact of wearing thermal (heat) protective clothing during fatiguing exercise in the heat. Seven males completed semi-recumbent, intermittent cycling (39.6 degrees C, 45% relative humidity) wearing either protective clothing or shorts (control). Mean core and skin temperatures, cardiac frequency (f(c)), stroke volume (Q), cardiac output (Q), arterial pressure, forearm blood flow (Q(f)), plasma volume change, and sweat rates were measured. In the clothed trials, subjects experienced significantly shorter times to fatigue (52.5 vs. 58.9 min), at lower peak work rates (204.3 vs. 277.4 W), and with higher core (37.9 degrees vs. 37.5 degrees C) and mean skin temperatures (37.3 degrees vs. 36.9 degrees C). There was a significant interaction between time and clothing on f(c), such that, over time, the clothing effect became more powerful. Clothing had a significant main affect on Q, but not Q, indicating the higher Q was chronotropically driven. Despite a greater sweat loss when clothed (923.0 vs. 547.1 g.m(-2) x h(-1); P<0.05), Q(f) and plasma volume change remained equivalent. Protective clothing reduced exercise tolerance, but did not affect overall cardiovascular function, at the point of volitional fatigue. It was concluded that, during moderately heavy, semi-recumbent exercise under hot, dry conditions, the strain on the unclothed body was already high, such that the additional stress imparted by the clothing ensemble represented a negligible, further impact upon cardiovascular stability.

PMID: 15370864 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2001 Dec;33(12):2124-30. Related Articles, Links

Clothing fabric does not affect thermoregulation during exercise in moderate heat. Gavin TP, Babington JP, Harms CA, Ardelt ME, Tanner DA, Stager JM. Department of inesiology, Human Performance Laboratory, Indiana University, Bloomington, IN 47405, USA. gavint@mail.ecu.edu

PURPOSE: We investigated whether temperature regulation is improved during exercise in moderate heat by the use of clothing constructed from fabric that was purported to promote sweat evaporation compared with traditional fabrics. METHODS: Eight well-trained, euhydrated males performed three exercise bouts wearing garments made from an evaporative polyester fabric (SYN), wearing garments made from traditional cotton fabric (COT), or dressed seminude (S-N) in random order. Bouts consisted of 15 min seated rest, 30 min running at 70% .VO(2max), 15 min walking at 40% .VO(2max), and 15 min seated rest, all at 30 +/- 1 degrees C and 35 +/- 5% relative humidity. COT and SYN clothing ensembles consisted of crew neck, short sleeve T-shirts, cycling shorts, and anklet socks made from their respective materials, and running shoes. The S-N condition consisted of a Lycra swim suit, polyester socks, and running shoes. RESULTS: Mean skin temperature was lower for S-N during preexercise rest when compared with SYN and COT. No differences in mean body temperature, rectal temperature, or mean skin temperature were observed during or after exercise. No differences in VO2 or heart rate were observed. No differences in comfort sensations were observed. CONCLUSION: In summary, before, during, or after exercise in a moderately warm environmental condition, neither the addition of a modest amount of clothing nor the fabric characteristics of this clothing alters physiological, thermoregulatory, or comfort sensation responses.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Ain't me. :-P back at ya.

I think I've done a grant total of one tri where the relative humidity was as low as 45%. 60% is normally the minimum humidity, and there are times the humidity will be 85% at the start. (And you might be a Southern triathlete when the air temperature has already hit 83F for the day as the sun comes up) Sweat just does not evaporate properly for cooling purposes in those conditions, and a lot of people find that shirts or singlets even further impair proper sweat evaporation.

To add to what Fla Jill said, at Great Floridian last year, the temperature in the late afternoon was 85 degrees. The average humidity for the day was 84%, the high humidity was 93%, and the low humidity was 63% (Orlando data from weatherunderground). I wore a cycling shirt for the ride (I don't doubt that the shirt protected me from the sun and kept me cooler), and I started the run carrying a coolmax shirt. (Side note, bottomfeeder was walking shirtless in the transition area, having completed the half. He's in good shape and I'm sure the ladies were glad he was shirtless.) It was overcast, hot, and humid. I never put on my shirt. It was just too hot. I apologize to the citizens of Clermont, all racers, and out of town spectators for the sight. I can't believe that on that hot, humid evening, I would have been cooler wearing a shirt. Note, it was overcast when I started running, and I finished in the dark. The sun was not a factor. If you are aware of a study showing that in very humid weather, when the sun is not a factor, a shirt will make a racer cooler, I'd appreciate it if you pass it on as I may have to change my thinking.

Wait, on second thought, perhaps I did wear a "shirt." I carried a reflective running vest, one of the old style ones made of orange mesh with a reflective rectangular orange panel on front and back. It is open on the sides. When the sun went down, I put it on. I'm sure I looked like a dork (but better than manbra), but I don't think they could have penalized me for failure to comply with the reflective material rule. Many racers and spectators told me, "nice shirt." If the new USAT rule passes, I'll have request an opinion as to whether the vest qualifies as a "shirt." Of course, my first course of action will be to lobby Fred Sommers get insurance from someone other than USAT.

HH

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

BottomFeeder is such a dreamboat.

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Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year