They are a brilliant fashion statement. Especially in pink with white knee socks and a nice blazer.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

You need to get out more. FWIW, I have never done a triathlon that did require a top.

From our local sprint triathlon:

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Those photos are proof of why the rule is necessary ;P

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

That's human nature for ya. People can make a big issue out of the silliest things. Why were so many lives ruined on account of gold in the history of the world? Simply because folks liked the way it looked way back when, and then it blossomed into a status symbol that was worth killing for. Don't mess with people's sense of aesthetics. It is primal, and this is why you see people take up arms about the shirt issue.

The more rules that are slapped on triathlon to make it look "professional" and "neighborly", the more it is going to alienate a faction of us who cherish our freedoms and our individuality. Those peeps would have to take their marbles and go elsewhere (non USAT events, events that don't restrict them so much, or a different sport altogether) to get their kicks... which is cool with me.

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I had no idea this topic/thread was involving USAT board members. My answers would not change.
I'm still puzzled why this is even an issue. My guess is that, if there are any complainers about topless males, they would represent less than 1% of the participants and spectators. Therefore, if a good percentage of the competitors want the option to go topless for speed or safety reasons (that would be me) or vanity (that would be someone else), their wishes should not be overriden by a very small minority.
BTW, these people who are complaining must hate when swimming is televised at the Summer Olympics. They probably abhor boxing and beach volleyball also.

From reading your posts I am dying to know these speed and safety reasons. I really want to see proof that your body, with seat, hair, various lumps and divots from muscle and or fat is more aero then a form fitting top or that wicking materiels are somehow less safe then topless.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

The "very small minority" of which you speak are the people who hold a veto over the very existence of any given race. Without their blessing, those competitors won't have the opportunity to risk their health or vanity.

I'm one who wants the option to race without a shirt (sweat, nipple issues), but an RD has got to do what must be done to get the permits. That said, having a blanket rule is the wrong approach.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I agree with your reasoning. If it's no shirt/no race, let's all wear shirts to appease the locals. If the locals don't care, which apparently is the case in Chicagoland, then USAT shouldn't make it an issue. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

May I see the science behind that statement. My perception is: in hot, humid weather, any shirt, any material feels hotter to me. When the water in the material can't evaporate, how can it be cooler?

"From reading your posts I am dying to know these speed and safety reasons. I really want to see proof that your body, with seat, hair, various lumps and divots from muscle and or fat is more aero then a form fitting top or that wicking materiels are somehow less safe then topless."


OK. Go here to see me in all my aero topless slendor. I had just blown by that PC guy in the shirt. That's certainly irrefutable proof that shirtless is faster.

http://tinypic.com/htbezd.jpg

It is probably better for USAT to have it the other way around. Make it a rule, but it's still up to local RD's to decide how closely to enforce it. The RD doesn't look like an ogre for enforcing it, people can't complain that they didn't know about the (local) rule, and if the community bitches, the RD can't say that the national governing body allows it. The only catch would be if you win the race without a shirt on because you thought the RD would let it slide, and the guy you beat decides to make a stink, and gets you DQ'd.

[reply]"From reading your posts I am dying to know these speed and safety reasons. I really want to see proof that your body, with seat, hair, various lumps and divots from muscle and or fat is more aero then a form fitting top or that wicking materiels are somehow less safe then topless."


OK. Go here to see me in all my aero topless slendor. I had just blown by that PC guy in the shirt. That's certainly irrefutable proof that shirtless is faster.

http://tinypic.com/htbezd.jpg[/reply]

That's what I thought, no proof, just making stuff up to make your case look better.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

This whole thread speaks to several things:

1. How utterly absurd this sport can get.

2. That there will always be in the sport of triathlon a maverick fringe( or maybe even mainstream) that want to do it THEIR way no matter what the rules say or the laws of physics and physiology say.

3. There has always been a movment in this sport to wear as little clothing as possible at all times. Not that I agree with that at all as I routinely see triathletes sun-burned to heck and/or freezing to death from a lack of proper clothing. It's not about rules - it's about common sense.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I had to get up and look at the cover of my copy of that book... Is it just me or is his shirt on backwards?

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gbassett.com

"The only catch would be if you win the race without a shirt on because you thought the RD would let it slide, and the guy you beat decides to make a stink, and gets you DQ'd."

Don't know for sure, but if its like the regular nudity rule, I think you would just get time added on, not DQ'd.

[reply]I had to get up and look at the cover of my copy of that book... Is it just me or is his shirt on backwards?[/reply]

I thought the exact same thing.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

<< The press release, though dated February 22, was not posted on the USAT website until March 8.

not sure of the exact reason for this, could be any number of things. I know there is a process involved and that even though a press release may be written on one day, it has to be approved by a couple of different people/committees before it is actually released. Then it has to go to the webmaster to be put up on the website. Still, I agree that a difference 9 business days is a lot. I believe the press release has now been pulled from the website.

<< The press release suggests that the proposal was favorably considered at the Global Rules Summit. However, it has been reported at InsideTriathlon.com that the proposal was actually rejected by a 6-3 vote

unfortunetely the Inside Triathlon article does not give much commentary on this, just the vote. I have looked at the transcripts from teh Rules Summit and yes the vote taken was a 6-3 vote against making this a rule, but the discussion was different, seven of the nine agreed with no bare torso. But when it came to voting to make it a rule, things changed. This tell me one thing, the idea is good but shouldn't be a blanket rule across the board for all races.

<< Although the rule has not been changed, a section of the USAT website titled �Membership � Latest News� has a false presentation of this issue, stating �USA Triathlon reminds athletes that torso (upper body) clothing is required during the cycling and running disciplines� (http://www.usatriathlon.org/Membership/membership_news.htm) and continues with a discussion that this rule is �targeted for special emphasis� and that it is �an important rule� for a number of reasons.

yes, I agree that is kind of misleading and I think getting ahead of things. It's not a rule and is possibly up for consideration for becoming a rule, but as of right now, it is not a rule.

<< your comments seem to suggest that they shouldn't be sent into USAT at all but rather to individual board members. Is that correct?

your comments can always be sent to the National office. But you should also be in touch with representative Board member. It is the board member that is voting on this issue and that will dictate what the national office does. It never hurts to let the national office know how you feel, but when it comes to voting on something, let your board member know how you want them to vote.

<< what other Global Summit issues will be voted on at the next meeting?

the bare torso rule is the only one that I am aware of at this point and thanks in part to the commentary on this site it may not even get voted on now and be scraped. So to those that don't think democracy doesn't work, it does and it is working now.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

1. USAT Member here

2. I wear a top when I race (but have done a few races with no top)

3. I do not want a Rule saying I HAVE to wear a top.

It actually pisses me off that there are so many problems in this sport that they should be focusing on - that they are burning up time and energy on wearing a shirt.

They need to come up with better ways to do waves starts. Better ways to control drafting. Etc. etc. I am sick and tired of starting in wave 6 or 8 or 10 (thanks to my age) and having to weave through 200 people on the bike -- AND having these young bucks who can't swim worth a sh*t jumping on my back wheel and drafting into T2 !!

USAT needs to pull thier head out of thier Ass and concentrate on what is important and NOT on wheather to pass a rule whether to wear a shirt or not.

The athlete who loads up on EPO and steriods and drafts his ass off and cuts the course is fine -- but disqualify the guy who forgets to put on his shirt!!!



How about spending some time on communitee advocacy on making the roads safer for us to train upon!! To many triathletes have been killed and injured bicycling on unsafe roads. And they want us to "wear shirts" ????

Warning, to those viewing in Amish counties or countries where skin might offend, please skip this post!



I warned you!









Here's me. To tell the truth, I cannot remember doing a race (triathlon, 5k, 10k, 1/2 Marathon) with a top on since I started racing in 1997ish.

California racer, though, almost always shirtless weather.

Chris

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Chris
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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

"I also think we should be sensitive to local preferences."

agreed. i think we also ought to be sensitive to our own sport's major themes. i think we can do both at the same time.

triathlon -- essentially an individual, maverick, boundary-testing phenomenon -- represents the best example i can think of where the government which governs least governs the best. there are no churchgoers crossing the ride or run course on which a certain percentage of Wildflower's 9000 participants are shirtless -- and a certain number of its aid station volunteers are more than shirtless ;-)

as has been brought to the attention of you and mike by others during this discussion, USAT allows RDs the right to add rules that USAT does not mandate. this discussion is a little like federal versus state's rights. USAT ought to have a minimum standard, and if RDs want to impose additional rules, let them do so according, as you wisely state, to "local preferences." it seems hard to me to reconcile the idea of "national rule" with the idea of being "sensitive to local preferences."

if USAT just added to its sanction package a note about the sensitivities of certain urban or conservate communities to this issue, the RD can judge for himself what's appropriate for his race. if you impose yet another rule, and another, you're throwing rule-weary RDs into NATA's arms (and there's always going to be a NATA-like organization waiting to take advantage of USAT's missteps).

why don't you figure out which rules you really need? and then resist the temptation to levy additional rules, and please let us not bring the itu's desire for "global rules" into this very provincial issue. if/when the ITU actually does honor (i mean TRULY honor) those elements of triathlon other than pro and junior ITU racing, then it's earned the right to ask for global rules. until then, USAT ought to resist the urge to scratch the ITU's back if it means turning its own back on its constituents. please don't let global rules enter into this issue EXCEPT where there is a global commitment to that element of the sport (such as those few ITU-style races in the U.S.). otherwise, we're going to end up with a set of rules that all the world's "local communities" can live with. i personally don't want a set of rules that takes into consideration the sensibilities of those who live in cyprus, or iceland, or morocco.

you can always add this shirt/shirtless rule later if it becomes an imminent need. until then, the sport in the U.S. is keeping an eye on USAT, to see whether it's earning the right to expect our loyalties over GTG, NATA, and whatever else may come.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"the bare torso rule is the only one that I am aware of at this point and thanks in part to the commentary on this site it may not even get voted on now and be scraped. So to those that don't think democracy doesn't work, it does and it is working now."

Come on, give credit where credit is due. It was my aero toplesss picture I posted which caused everyone to realize what a shame it would be to have a hunk like me have to cover up.

I hope you vote against this rule Mike. If ultra-conservative church goers are going to complain about shirtless men, then they will also complain about men in skin tight shorts and shirts. And if we keep giving in to their complaints we will have to race in MC Hammer pants and parkas. People will still complain though because their real problem is that we are inconviencing them by being on the road. I like racing without a top in hot, short races.

Purdue finally got a trophy from 05 Nationals. I'm guessing you had something to do with this, if so I'd like to thank you for coming through when so many others had failed.

Scott

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"Triathlon" is a misspell according to the Slowtwitch spell checker.

I'm sitting here looking at about 6 different pics from recent road races, and I'm seeing quite a few topless guys. Including my husband (woo hoo!).

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mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Dan,

Why does there have to be a rule. I routinley see triathletes sun burned to heck, or with leathery wrinkled skin from way too much sun exposure or nearly freezing to death from wearing a too little clothing while training or racing. Why does there have to be a rule. Why can't it be about common sense!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

<< Purdue finally got a trophy from 05 Nationals. I'm guessing you had something to do with this, if so I'd like to thank you for coming through when so many others had failed.

don't know if I am directly responsible for that, but I did bring it up and hopefully that greased the wheels. End result is a happy ending though.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org