I don't know how she pulls that off though without help...as in alcohol and Ambien.

This, gotta love how she is playing up the “trauma” angle.

Maurice

I cannot wait until she finds out she's pregnant. Hilarity will ensue.

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"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."

“Now I’m facing a 40-50ft drop to the pavement below,”


Must be one of those extra tall planes.

I don't believe it for a second. No possible way she was strapping in, upright, in her seat, and went unnoticed. This couldn't happen even with an airline run by a bunch of stupid Canadians. At a minimum, she was passed out, curled up in her chair. But, I wouldn't be surprised to learn she was passed out in a bathroom.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Probably more to the story but taking it at face value it’s not like she landed in the middle of Syria with a war going on around her. She woke up on a plane in Toronto. Yeah, not an ideal situation, inconvenient, and unacceptable (if true) but basically claiming PTSD seems like a bit of a stretch.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

More info. It was only a 90 minute flight. She claims her phone was dead. Seriously? How was her phone dead.

She claims she was 40-50 feet in the air, but, in this article, she says a luggage handler helped her "jump down safely":

https://www.cbsnews.com/...-hours-after-flight/

Here is her actual Facebook post. Notice she supposedly texted her friend when she woke up, but, then her phone died. Also, she had the entire row to herself, so, again, at a minimum, she was lying down.

Another sleepless night for moi unfortunately insomnia doesn’t care that I work in the morn 😩 first off must say I really appreciate the bday love 🥰 I’m a couple days late on the thank yous and finally just catching up on fb..honestly it’s been really difficult week and half for me and I’m asking for help..I would really like to find out if anyone had been through this too bc 10 days later and I am still a wreck..not handling my emotions very well and welcome coping advice or techniques to calm my nerves
I had the most incredible time in Quebec with Deanna I’m grateful for what was one of the best weekends I’ve ever had.. my flight home I got super comfy reading my book happy I scored my row all to myself (flight was about 1/4 full) I fell asleep probably less than halfway through my short 1.5 hour flight.. I wake up around midnight (few hours after flight landed) freezing cold still strapped in my seat 💺 in complete darkness (I’m talking pitch black) as someone with and anxiety disorder as is I can tell you how terrifying this was..I think I’m having a bad dream bc like seriously how is this happening!!?! My phone lit up with missed msgs and of course I assured Dee I would text when I land in Toronto..I send her msg just before midnight saying omg I’ve just woke up and I’m all alone on this cold dark plane..Dee initially thinks I should already be home and maybe having a bad dream..so I tell her I’m flipping to FaceTime bc I also don’t have any clue wtf going on less than 60 secs on ft tryna show her (of course its total darkness) and my phone dies..I’m trying to focus on my breathing and control my panic attack while I attempt to charge my phone by plugging into every USB port I could find..no luck bc when they shut the aircraft down there is no power whatsoever I now have to use washroom and that’s also no picnic when you can’t see a thing and are tryin to keep yourself calm..since I can’t charge my phone to call for help I’m full on panicking bc I want off this nightmare asap
I found the walky talky thingys in the cockpit but they also don’t work I can’t radio for help
I was so overjoyed when I found a flashlight in the cockpit and I’m making some flashy sos signals out the windows hoping someone sees me
Finally now that I have light I’m determined to unlock the door and save myself...felt like a champ when I got main door open (found all 3 latches w my lifesaver of a flashlight and open the door all the way
Now I’m facing a 40-50ft drop to the pavement below 😬 I hang out the door trying to get the attention of ground crew I can see Pearson’s lights but too far away I’m where the aircrafts park overnight there is no one around..I search frantically for a rope so I can climb down to safely (flight attendants seat is right by door I opened but the seatbelt is too short to hang from so back to my distress signals now I’m hanging out the door reflecting the flashlight off the side of the plane (figuring reflective exterior will catch someone’s attention in the distance) not sure how much time has passed bc no phone no nothing
When I see the luggage cart driving towards me I am literally dangling my legs out of the plane..he is in shock asking how the heck they left me on the plane..I’m wondering the same (when my seat an inch back or my tray down flight crew take notice but yet you missed a person still strapped into her seat and just all go on home?!?!
Anyway the guy had the ladder dock and I jumped to safety before he was even a foot from the door..the Air Canada cars pull up drive me up to Pearson where I’m met by another Air Canada rep asking if I’m ok and would I like a limo and hotel.. umm no are you kidding me all I want to to go home I have to work in a few hours..she let me use her phone to call home and call shuttle to take me to my car..Air Canada called Monday and Tuesday both people again ask me to repeat what happened apologize for my inconvenience and say they will do an investigation bc they have checks in place that should prevent people from being locked on the aircraft at night
I haven’t got much sleep since the reoccurring night terrors and waking up anxious and afraid I’m alone locked up someplace dark..this is a super long post-so I’ll wrap it up please share if you know of anyone who has gone through this I don’t like feeling so alone.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

the plane seat emoji is a fun touch.

I don't know about this girl and her state of mind but those attendants are gonna get skinned alive.

Sounds like she jumped horizontally 1 ft to the ladder truck.

her phone was dead, because the battery had run out of power. I don't think there is a requirement that your phone battery is fully charged when you get on a plane. Probably got on the plane with a few hours or so of charge, depending on the age of the phone that could be 1/2 a battery full.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Reminds me of taking the night train from Florence to Paris in 1984 - We were "gassed", robbed, and woke up in an empty train in Paris hours after the train had arrived :(

Did you read her post? She texted her friend when she woke up, then her phone mysteriously "died." She also strikes me as the type who charges her phone every opportunity.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yep, she appears to be laying the groundwork for a lawsuit:

Meanwhile, Adams said she’s still recovering from the ordeal.
“I haven’t got much sleep since the reoccurring night terrors and waking up anxious and afraid I’m alone locked up someplace dark,” she wrote.

So like all Canadians she's afraid of the dark?

"...in complete darkness (I’m talking pitch black)"


This is the biggest BS of her whole *ordeal*

Even they moved her plane to the remotest part of an airport, it is still an active area with more that enough noises, sounds and lights

The window shades 1) are not even remotely able to block out all lights, they don't seal 100% so they will always emit some light thru nooks and crannies and then 2) that would mean EVERY single window shade was down. So either AC made an announcement prior to landing that all passengers must lower all the window shades, which I have never had to being on the last flight of the night (and I took 3 in the past week on Delta) or a FA or cleaning crew did walk the plane and lowered them all, in which she would have been discovered

It will be interesting to see if this gets walked back at some point. Maybe more likely a small amount of hush money?

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

What I find interesting here is that everyone is attacking the woman. Yeah, maybe she's exaggerating a little but I can tell you that if this happened to me, I would probably be greatly affected by it. Maybe even anxiety. So I don't know that that part is made up.

What I find interesting is that nobody here finds it horribly egregious that the airline staff missed her. Isn't part of their job to walk down the aisles and do a physical check? Don't they clean up at all? How the fuck do you miss a person?

And the other passengers... really? nobody thought to wake her up? What the fuck is that all about?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

That's why I do not believe her story for one second. I do not believe it is possible for that to happen.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

The Airline has confirmed that it happened and are investigating how it could possibly happen.

People will be fired.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

You are missing my point. I believe she woke up on an empty plane. I do not believe she was seated upright in her seat when it happened. I said this earlier - I would not be surprise to find out she was passed out in the bathroom or some other location.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Her story is she was buckled in the seat - but like you I'm not so convinced. She was tucked in somewhere passed out. And if that happened to me I would also say I was sitting in my seat the whole time.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

While never that I recall flying AC, I fly approx 200K miles a year on Delta and been on every conceivable plane that they have.

In looking around, she was probably on a A319.

Which is 3 X 3 seating all the way it seems with no real FC

On this plane, it has a rear lavatory and rear galley, so that would also mean rear seating for FA(s).

So an FA(s) would have needed to walk down past all the rows to the front of the plane to disembark and most certainly would have been last of the plane

This is Air Canada. Heavily unionized and deeply unaccountable.

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

But the first person she calls is her friend and she Facetimes her? Why not simply call 911 or whatever the Canadian version is? Why not simply deploy the slide? I've always wanted to slide down the slide from a plane.

You just described pretty much any single aisle twin engine airplane.

Do you think that it's any better for the FAs if the real story is that she was in the bathroom? I am fairly certain they are supposed to check them. If not, holy fuck that's a huge flaw in their walkaround.

Is it any better if she was lying down in a row? They should still catch that. Fuck, even if she was on the floor, they should catch that.

I don't see how in any way they can claim that they did their jobs diligently.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

This. That is the one thing her story has going for it.
I could see something like this happening on AC.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

No.

I have been on some small RJs, that are just 1 X 2 with no rear galley or bathroom (both up front). Not sure if they have FA seating back there or they both need to sit up front

Yes, I think it is a lot better and I feel extremely confident there is much more to this story. Also, why I am the one defending the stupid Canadians, you moose-fucking traitor???

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Because unlike Americans when stupid Canadians do stupid things we don’t double down on stupid and defend the idiots.

Maybe you GOP guys should consider looking into that.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

This American is blaming the stupid Canadian who did a stupid thing. What is disturbing is that the stupid Canadian to whom I am responding is stupid enough to believe her bullshit story.

Maybe you moose-fucker should consider not being so gullible.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I don't believe her story that she was upright in her seat. I think that she either fell asleep or passed out somewhere, either lying down on seats or in a bathroom. I think that she was somehow missed. I don't think that that should be possible if the FAs are doing their jobs.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

"...in complete darkness (I’m talking pitch black)"
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How could you not believe this? Airports are notorious for being ridiculously dark places. Once it gets past twilight, you couldn't even tell that there was an airport in the area unless you accidentally walked into a parked plane

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

That really depends on where she was and therein lies the mystery.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Please give me a location that they could have missed if they were doing their jobs. In the overhead bin? Nope, not even there.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

True story. I know someone currently on a nice, long, paid vacation because of the 737 Max grounding.

Since this is all they are saying that doesn't mean that she was sleeping in her chair, lets see how it plays out.

I don't know, but, neither do you. It's funny because you stated earlier that you do not believe she was seated, upright, when she fell asleep. So, in other words, you think she was lying. It's ok, because, so do I. Therefore, we have established she is a liar. That's a pretty safe bet. Well, I've been lied to for the past 22 years of my career. That's what people do around lawyers - they lie their asses off. In 22 years of having people lie to me, one of biggest things I learned is that, when a person lies about one thing, that person is definitely lying about other things. No question.

Now, even though you fully believe her to be a liar, you are going to continue to use her to support your position. Ok. Sucker ...

You started this thread for the soul purpose of criticizing the flight crew and you based your entire premise on the word of a liar. I, on the other hand, am not going to condemn the flight crew on this plane, until I know the rest of the story.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

The entire story could be bs but I doubt that it is. I think that there is some truth. Maybe I am naive.

As I said, I think that she fell asleep or passed out drunk. I am leaning towards asleep.

I am really struggling to figure out how the flight crew could have missed someone.

Maybe she was actively hiding... maybe. But to what end? I mean people are fucked up and do stupid things but to hide and then blame it on AC?

I would like to know what the story is because whatever it is... it's fucked up.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

You think the slides are cool, check out what the pilots have on the 747 (also 787).

I am really struggling to figure out how the flight crew could have missed someone.

Maybe she was actively hiding... maybe. But to what end? I mean people are fucked up and do stupid things but to hide and then blame it on AC?
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Everyone is struggling to figure out how the flight crew missed someone. The most likely explanation for this scenario is that she was actively hiding. To what end? To claim mental pain and anguish towards a free pay day courtesy of Air Canada.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

for that to work wouldn't she have had to know that a cleaning crew wouldn't be coming around until morning?

I guess she could have stuck herself in a closet.

I'm just not seeing mastermind here, but you never know.

How are big airliners put into the parking area at night?

After their final flight of the eve and passengers get off, does the plane get towed to the parking lot or does it start up its engines and motor out to the lot? Seems a long way to tow a plane.

Point being, while this lady was sleeping (allegedly) did the crew start the plan back up and move out to the lot...so effectively missed her a second time?

Assuming her story is true just as she says it, this lady is still top shelf kook and looking for attention and a payday. Which in my mind also makes her a candidate for intentionally staging something like this.

.

Occam's Razor... she fell asleep, probably lying down across the row of seats. It's late and last flight of the night, the FAs just want to get the f out and go home, so they missed her. Plane gets towed to parking area. End of.

Sure, her FB post is a bit of exaggeration, but far as I can see, that's probably the story.

Contrary to your report, her name isn't even Tiffani Adams. It is Tiffani O'Brian and the story gets even more bullshit to it:

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/...cked-plane-1.4478733


Sorry BLeP, but, this woman is a head-case and she sets off the bullshit meter as soon as she opens her mouth: https://www.ctvnews.ca/...mpty-plane-1.4478442

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Look, my preference is that the story is complete bs and she’s a total whack job. It would be much more entertaining.

But the two last name thing is easily explained if Adams is her maiden name(I have no idea). Many women go by their maiden name on Facebook.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Did you watch the video? Cray cray.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Crazy eyes. Dark dark crazy eyes.

She was probably afraid that it was going to take off and crash and she wouldn't be able to do anything about it. I don't think any normal person would really be traumatized after waking up on a plane that was safely "parked" at an airport. It would be an inconvenience, but not trauma worthy.

15 minutes of fame and an easy pay day. That's all this is for her.

But, more important issue here - why is she (and BLeP) blaming someone else for her own stupidity? Seriously, can a grown ass woman really not be responsible enough to board a 90 minute flight and depart upon conclusion of that flight? Really? That's too much to ask now? Really??

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Weren't you the one who schooled me on the concept of the "eggshell plaintiff" back in the day when some senator sued a restaurant because he bit into an olive pit in an "olive wrap" sandwich?

Where do you draw the line?

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

The flight attendants have to inspect the cabin for landing, they would have seen her lying across the seats.

I think she hid in the bathroom and the FA didn’t notice that she was missing. Now she’s trying to get some money out of it.

I don’t remember a case regarding an olive pit, but I do remember talking about the eggshell plaintiff rule. If I remember correctly, I explained the rule, but also disagreed with it. But that situation would not apply here if she is responsible for being on the plane, which I suspect is the case.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

So they don't inspect the bathrooms?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I just assumed all modern commercial passenger planes had cameras on loop recording in the cabin areas these days. For all sorts of reasons.

If so, seems like they would shed some light on what happened.

The worst thing is if they didn't inspect the bathroom. People feel ill they go to the bathroom. Some of those people are seriously ill and having something like a heart attack. Then they die in the bathroom.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

It's part of my point. I think that regardless of how she ended up on the plane alone (intentional or otherwise) the flight crew seriously dropped the ball.

There should not be anyone left on the plane. Ever. For any reason.

That anyone is arguing against that point is madness. JSA, I am looking in your direction.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I’m not arguing that the flight crew didn’t screw up. They absolutely did. I just was saying that they are required to go through the cabin and check that everyone is in landing position and probably would have seen someone sprawled out over three seats. But maybe they don’t check the bathrooms?

A few years ago Air Canada was in the news for noticing that an old man had young looking hands and they discovered someone trying to flee their home country dressed up like an old man. If they can do that, how did they fail to notice a human still in the plane?

Thanks. For fun and giggles, here is the old olive pit thread:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=3176089#p3176089

My sad takeaway from that thread is that you have to assume that people are fragile idiots. And if you happen to harm one of them, even through a convoluted chain of events, you're screwed. :-O

[I jest. Slightly.]

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

This same thing happened to me on a train outside of London. Although I was drunk at the time and had passed out. Luckily my stop was the end of the line. Woke up, lights off, no one in the train. Doors were open. Not sure if they leave then like that or couldn't wake me up and left them open for me.

Wow! I forgot all about that case! Reading the thread, it is coming back to me now.

Your assessment isn't too far off!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And here we go ...

According to CTV News, Tiffani Louise O’Brien has hired a lawyer after she was left alone inside a pitch-dark Air Canada plane, hours after her approximately 90-minute flight from Quebec City to Toronto on June 9.

https://torontosun.com/...idering-legal-action

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

But, that didn't happen here. She wasn't ill. She wasn't dead. And, you admit she is a liar. Yet, you want to attack the crew of this flight without having any information, other than the statement of a liar. BLeP, I am looking right at your goofy-ass mug.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I can agree with one of his points. There is no way that the flight crew should miss anyone still on the plane. Not because of "traumatized" people like her, but because of the nutcase who has enough knowledge to sabotage the plane for the next flight.

There were a couple experts interviewed in a couple of the links I posted who stated the plane have been inspected first by the cleaning crew, then by the maintenance crew, before it was put into service the next day, so, she would have been found and pre-flight safety checks would have detected any sabotage.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

So when you are talking to clients as a labour lawyer do you advise them not to bother doing their jobs right because somebody else should catch their mistakes before they are really big problems?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I have no idea what the hell a "labour lawyer" is, so, I couldn't tell you. But, when my clients get sued for bullshit claims like this, well ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ok, so the plane would have been inspected inside/outside before the next take-off but shouldn't they confirm there are no persons on the plane before parking it for the night so that the plane can't be stolen and flown away in the middle of the night? Or blown up on site? A hijacked plane is not terribly far-fetched idea and could lead to another 9-11 type attack

(all of that said, I'm with you, JSA- she's milking this to get some air time and some money. She's proven herself a liar and her story is suspect. Blep, I'm with you in that the crew should have seen her whether she was across the seats, on the floor, in the bathroom, in a closet or hiding in the cockpit. There's a lot that doesn't make sense here and hearing from the crew would be a good start.)

JSA - "It's ok. Don't bother doing your job, that's what redundancy is for. WINNING!!!"

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

She's locked in the plane, after making it through TSA. But, you still think she could blow up the plane at the terminal, in the middle of the night? You think she is going to fly away? How??? She could not even back up from the gate...

Truth be told, I agree someone should have found her. But, I also firmly believe her situation was caused by her and, as a result, the airline has zero liability if she files a claim. She should be chastised for her stupidity, especially in light of her desire for her 15 minutes and a payday.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

What we are talking about is whether the airline has any liability when it comes to a claim by her. The answer is - no.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Come on, you're smarter than that. You're right, THIS CHICK could not get out of the door but a properly motivated person who also hid out on the plane but instead of $$ and fame had the motivation of stealing the plane for whatever reason, could have, given these circumstances. As for blowing up the plane, again, right, SHE could not get explosives through TSA (presumably) but a properly motivated person could access a fuel truck or other incendiary device in the plane maintenance hanger and use that to cause damage. I saw something similar happen in a James Bond flick

Hmm...I agree with the prior post - even if they could manage to fire up the engines (not easy process), how would anyone in the plane back it away from the gate? They don’t have reverse gears.

Seems like we are talking about two different points here. Are we talking about this woman's claim against the airline or are we talking about a potential security breach?

Sounds like we both agree she has no claim or at least should not be entitled to anything. Correct?

As to the other argument, regarding a security breach - let me get this straight. Your position is that a terrorist COULD get an explosive device into the plane, but, instead of detonating it when it is full of people, would wait until midnight, when the plane and the airport were empty. Do I have that right?

Or ... you think she could get to a fuel truck or incendiary device in the hanger. Ummmm ... how would she get out of the plane? Per her story, she was "40-50" feet in the air and could not get down until a ladder truck was driven to the door. So, how would your terrorist get out of the plane? Also, why would she hide on the plane? Why not hide in the airport, then exit to the maintenance hanger? How does it make sense to stay in the plane, if your goal is the maintenance hanger?

Why not crawl down the luggage ramp? That would give access to the tarmac and all those incendiary devices you believe are in the maintenance hanger.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I know this is a novel idea here in the LR, but it’s entirely possible for multiple parties to have blame here. It’s entirely possible that the woman on the plane is a liar and a fame seeking lunatic looking for an easy payday, and for the flight crew to have been negligent in their duties, leading to them leaving a person on the plane that they should have been able to discover before closing up for the night.

Both sides can bear fault.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I agree. I was trying to say that to OakCreekTri.

I view this from two different lenses: (1) Should the crew have discovered her? Yes. (2) Should the airline bear any liability to her for failing to discover her? No.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And this I agree with. My point about the potential threat liability comes from what could happen from a lax crew. It's not likely, but neither was the hijacking of a plane with box cutters or utility knives.

I agree she deserves $0 compensation for this. I agree the FAs should have noted they were missing someone on disembarkment.

I just noticed I called you OakCreekTri. Sorry about that! I have a meeting in Oak Creek tomorrow, so, had that on my mind!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Funny, I almost made mention of or correction but I couldn't get emojis to work! OakCreekTri is close enough.

Sorry if I'm failing to see how your #2 follows from #1.... What about ...

(1) Should the crew have discovered her? Yes.
(2) Should the airline bear any liability to her for failing to discover her? Yes, because they clearly failed in their duty as pointed out in #1.

As in ...

(1) Should the surgeon have realized the surgical instrument was still in the body cavity and in plain sight? Yes.
(2) Should the surgeon bear any liability for failing to see that? Yes - malpractice claim warranted.

Cripes. Was that really that hard to admit?

I don’t giev two shits about lawsuits. My point was and always remains, that this shouldn’t have happened. Someone should have noticed her. Regardless of intention on her part.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

One doesn't follow from another. They are independent.

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that she actively hid from the flight crew for the purposes of setting up a lawsuit. (1) Should they have found her? Yes. (2) Should the airline bear any liability to her for failing to discover her? No.

This isn't rocket surgery. In order for her to prevail in a lawsuit, she must show (a) she was owed a duty of care, (b) they failed to provide that duty of care, and (c) she suffered damages. But, the concept of contributory negligence states that if she was the cause of the harm that befell her, her recovery is reduced in the percentage.

What I am saying is simple - she passed out. She is responsible for passing out (likely a combination of alcohol and sleeping aids). Her passing out caused her to be missed by the flight crew. Thus, she was the cause of her being locked in the plane (at least partially). Now, more likely, she went in the bathroom and passed out. Even more her fault. Was it totally her fault? I think it was. But, we don't know all the facts (yet).

That's how the law works when it comes to negligence.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No, you just wanted to take a shot at the stupid Canadian airline. Moose-fucker on moose-fucker violence is fun to watch, but, sometimes needs to be called out. You and Air Canada need to sit down for a poutine summit and make peace.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Mmmm... poutine.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Here's where I would disagree.

Let's assume the woman passed out in the bathroom because she was drunk. That would be her fault. One could ask if the flight attendants were over-serving her or if she was in a state that she shouldn't have been allowed on the plane to begin with - but let's set that aside. Let's stipulate that she is responsible for being passed out drunk in the lavatory.

It's still the responsibility of the flight crew to check the seats and lavatories to ensure everyone is secured for landing and that no one is left on the plane. The fact that she was at fault for being in the toilet to begin with doesn't relieve the flight crew of their responsibility to find her.

So, if she sued, I would expect either no award granted to her, or some award granted for the airline's failure, but greatly decreased from whatever she wanted based on her role in the circumstances.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

how can it be determined well after the fact whether she was passed out drunk, or passed out due to a medical condition?

(understanding that if that's what happened, drunk is the likeliest explanation)

Yeah, don't bother. I have said this many times. All I get is moose and poutine responses. JSA doesn't like to admit when he's wrong. Actually I think he's allergic to it. Much like how you are allergic to saying "I agree".

Here's where you tell me...

I don't disagree.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

When you hear the story your first thought is that she must have been hiding. But there really isn't anywhere to hide on an airplane. Not like you can stand on the toilet so they don't see you in the stall.

But part of the problem is that she is pretty clearly not telling the truth either. She claims she was still strapped into her seat, and no one is buying that.

Unless she crawled into the overhead bin and hid, which seems like somebody would notice the whacky lady doing that, the airline has to be at fault.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'm sorry but "Her passing out caused her to be missed by the flight crew." is a fallacy.

Put simply: the flight crew's *negligence* cased her to be missed by the flight crew. It is the flight crew's responsibility to make sure no humans are on the plane. Regardless of a passenger's intent. Regardless of their physical condition. Regardless of their location on the plane.

End of.

and even though you mentioned damages as an element there is no real, provable damage obvious from the story so far. And I am a bleeding heart liberal plaintiffs' lawyer that thinks everyone injured deserves money! Contrib and failure to mitigate cut into her ability to get damages awarded but she still has to prove she has some injury. In my state negligent infliction of emotional distress is not allowed so there would have to be intentional infliction of emotional distress. That's extremely hard to prove. And a jury is going to severely question any real damage (PTSD) caused by being stuck on an airplane for a short time with no bodily injury allegations. Any lawsuit based on this would be nothing more than a money grab.

Serious Question- how was she "freezing cold" when she "awoke" on the plane in Toronto, Canada when the hi/lo for June 9, 2019 was 69/58f?

What IS rocket surgery?

It's the unbelievably complicated combination of rocket science and brain surgery.

No, it's not a fallacy, it's the law.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Rocket surgery.

I spent a short stint as an intern rocket surgeon on the Trident II D5 missile. I worked with actual rocket surgeons. Much, much harder than practicing law. Also, not as fun.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

This; JSA can fuck right off. I agree w/ him her story reeks of BS, and further agree she deserves zero compensation for her self-initiated non-injury... And yet all that doesn't allow the airline a pass for failing to execute their duties properly. The higher standard or expectation of conduct rests on the professionals here, not the passenger. Like OCT says, just because her scheme only amounted to some low-grade extortion doesn't mean their negligence couldn't have led to a far more egregious outcome; they should still be held accountable for that in any case. The same number of people need to get off the plane at the end as the number who boarded, or it's their fuckup, Period.

If I were the supreme adjudicator in this kerfuffle, I'd see fit to fine or otherwise penalize the airline and/or its employees (depending on how much the culpability can be narrowed down to a particular crew member or 2 whose responsibility it was to sweep the aircraft), and then donate any punitive proceeds to some local airline safety outreach program or the proverbial airline mechanics' widows fund or whatever, and not award squat to the plaintiff since she's clearly not deserving of any sympathy either. But I certainly wouldn't just say she brought it on herself and then just dismiss the whole thing entirely without meting fault to the airline.

And yet all that doesn't allow the airline a pass for failing to execute their duties properly.
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I'm on the other end of the spectrum. You pay the airlines to fly you from point A to point B safely. Perhaps to provide you with some in-flight refreshments and electronic entertainment. You don't pay them to be your personal babysitter. They get you to your destination and offer you a tiny bag of peanuts along the way, they've done their job. You can't/ won't get your ass off the plane, assuming no major medical malfunctions, that's on you. Getting stuck on a plane is a lesson you shouldn't have to learn the hard way and, if you do, only have to learn it once.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I'm going to call you both out because LavRoom:

It's "comparative fault," not "contributory negligence." Contributory negligence is the old and now abandoned theory that prevented any recovery whatsoever if the claimant was even the slightest bit at fault. Comparative fault is the current theory that merely reduces damages in proportion to the claimant's fault.

Carry on, counselors. ;-)

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War is god

Contributory negligence is alive and well in the people's republic of Illinois, it just reduces damages, not eliminate them

Sorry kiddo, that's how the law works.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Bingo! It isn't the world's responsibility to care for dipshits with one good leg who are unable to perform the simple tasks expected of adults.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ah, no. Alabama, DC, Maryland, North Carolina, and Virginia are all pure contributory negligence states.

Several other states still use partial contributory negligence: See, e.g., Section 895.045, Wis. Stats. Contributory Negligence. IL Stats Chapter 735. Civ. Pro. Sec. 5/2-1116. Etc., etc.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That's great and all, but this incident occurred entirely in Canada, where I'm pretty sure comparative negligence/fault has largely replaced contributory negligence.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Fairly certain that is not accurate. I’m no expert of Canadian law, but these Canadian law firms seems to think it exists.

http://www.dolden.com/...igence-June-2007.pdf

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Yeah, I don't understand the quoting US case law.

Anyhew, I find it just as possible that she wasn't passed out drunk or intentionally hid. I could see her asleep in the back of the plane with her seat belt on. In planes it's just a lap belt. So she could have been in window seat, for example, where she leaning in against the window and not visible under the high seats. It's plausible because they obviously didn't sweep the plane before they left.

Her actions after don't support her being intoxicated. She found a flashlight in the cockpit, opened the door and signaled for help. I'm sure she was questioned beyond the worker that got her out of the plane. And she went on her merry way, so I bet she wasn't f-ed up. Or if she was, it was duly noted.

Just for you: http://www.mondaq.com/...tributory+Negligence

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

https://www.siskinds.com/...ributory-negligence/

http://vealelaw.com/...butory-negligence-2/

https://ca.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/...Page=true&bhcp=1

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

That's impressive.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/...rie...lane-1.4484381

Just days after news broke of a woman being left alone on board an Air Canada flight, another woman has come forward with a similar experience.

Pamela Prescod, a 69-year-old woman from Guelph, Ont. who is visually impaired and has several other health issues, landed at Toronto’s Pearson International Airport on April 6 following a three-month vacation in Barbados.

She needed help filling out the customs forms and required a wheelchair to leave the Air Canada Rouge aircraft, so she says the crew on-board told her to wait in her seat and they would come back to help.

The staff never returned.

She claims that her seat was in the middle of the plane. Not the back

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Well, apparently that's still her fault, since we've been told here repeatedly that the airline evidently has no responsibility to carry out their jobs...

Seriously, this is a great example though ~ Where on the age/ability/nefarious intent spectrum does a passenger have to fall to relieve them of the duty to get their own ass off the plane then, and hold the airline responsible? I keep going back to: The airline should be responsible for clearing their aircraft of everyone that got on board, regardless of whether they need help or not (precisely so its not dependent on any determination of how able-bodied Passenger X is vs Passenger Y).

So, that must mean you are ready to admit the woman in the OP should not fall into the same category as this woman and, as a result, should be held entirely at fault for her own predicament.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Screw all your oddball states and their backasswards policies and laws. Come here to California where things are simp... Oh wait. Dang. Y'all probably got your policies and laws set correctly where you are.

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War is god

No, quite the opposite... What I mean is that it shouldn't matter how able-bodied or not the passenger is, since that's a sliding scale w/ no clearly-defined threshold; instead every ticketed passenger falls into the same category, that category being Your Ass Must Be Offa This Bitch Before The Last Employee Closes The Motherfucking Door.

Consider a kid ~ how old is old enough to not need assistance? Whatever number you pick is pretty arbitrary, like a kid is suddenly mature enough to fly alone today cuz he just turned 12 (or whatever), but he REALLY wasn't mature enough only yesterday? And obviously some 10/12-year olds are much more capable than others. Or at the other end of the spectrum, maybe one 70 year-old needs help, but the 80-year-old next to her would beat you to death w/ her cane if you so much as insinuate that she's anything less than fully capable. Or maybe I look like a perfectly capable prime-aged stud (I get that a lot), but actually just had surgery so can't get up and around as well as it appears I should be. Do we all need to fill out a pre-screening questionnaire stipulating that we don't need to be reminded/escorted/cajoled/encouraged to GTFO already when the plane has been gated up?

My point remains that none of that should matter. Of course the flight staff can & should offer/provide assistance to anyone who needs it, but regardless of whether it's needed/appreciated or not they have to ensure that everyone complies with getting the hell off the plane before they turn out the lights. I don't get why that's a hard concept. It doesn't mean I think that the original gal in question deserves any compensation whatsoever for her own predicament, just that the airline still fucked up. Like slowguy said, saying the airline fucked up doesn't mean she's blameless. But again, as a matter of policy/procedure, I'm more concerned w/ the professionals doing their job since I don't expect a planeload of 200 or so random people to not contain a few wingnuts.