I know this is a novel idea here in the LR, but it’s entirely possible for multiple parties to have blame here. It’s entirely possible that the woman on the plane is a liar and a fame seeking lunatic looking for an easy payday, and for the flight crew to have been negligent in their duties, leading to them leaving a person on the plane that they should have been able to discover before closing up for the night.

Both sides can bear fault.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

I agree. I was trying to say that to OakCreekTri.

I view this from two different lenses: (1) Should the crew have discovered her? Yes. (2) Should the airline bear any liability to her for failing to discover her? No.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And this I agree with. My point about the potential threat liability comes from what could happen from a lax crew. It's not likely, but neither was the hijacking of a plane with box cutters or utility knives.

I agree she deserves $0 compensation for this. I agree the FAs should have noted they were missing someone on disembarkment.

I just noticed I called you OakCreekTri. Sorry about that! I have a meeting in Oak Creek tomorrow, so, had that on my mind!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Funny, I almost made mention of or correction but I couldn't get emojis to work! OakCreekTri is close enough.

Sorry if I'm failing to see how your #2 follows from #1.... What about ...

(1) Should the crew have discovered her? Yes.
(2) Should the airline bear any liability to her for failing to discover her? Yes, because they clearly failed in their duty as pointed out in #1.

As in ...

(1) Should the surgeon have realized the surgical instrument was still in the body cavity and in plain sight? Yes.
(2) Should the surgeon bear any liability for failing to see that? Yes - malpractice claim warranted.

Cripes. Was that really that hard to admit?

I don’t giev two shits about lawsuits. My point was and always remains, that this shouldn’t have happened. Someone should have noticed her. Regardless of intention on her part.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

One doesn't follow from another. They are independent.

Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that she actively hid from the flight crew for the purposes of setting up a lawsuit. (1) Should they have found her? Yes. (2) Should the airline bear any liability to her for failing to discover her? No.

This isn't rocket surgery. In order for her to prevail in a lawsuit, she must show (a) she was owed a duty of care, (b) they failed to provide that duty of care, and (c) she suffered damages. But, the concept of contributory negligence states that if she was the cause of the harm that befell her, her recovery is reduced in the percentage.

What I am saying is simple - she passed out. She is responsible for passing out (likely a combination of alcohol and sleeping aids). Her passing out caused her to be missed by the flight crew. Thus, she was the cause of her being locked in the plane (at least partially). Now, more likely, she went in the bathroom and passed out. Even more her fault. Was it totally her fault? I think it was. But, we don't know all the facts (yet).

That's how the law works when it comes to negligence.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

No, you just wanted to take a shot at the stupid Canadian airline. Moose-fucker on moose-fucker violence is fun to watch, but, sometimes needs to be called out. You and Air Canada need to sit down for a poutine summit and make peace.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Mmmm... poutine.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Here's where I would disagree.

Let's assume the woman passed out in the bathroom because she was drunk. That would be her fault. One could ask if the flight attendants were over-serving her or if she was in a state that she shouldn't have been allowed on the plane to begin with - but let's set that aside. Let's stipulate that she is responsible for being passed out drunk in the lavatory.

It's still the responsibility of the flight crew to check the seats and lavatories to ensure everyone is secured for landing and that no one is left on the plane. The fact that she was at fault for being in the toilet to begin with doesn't relieve the flight crew of their responsibility to find her.

So, if she sued, I would expect either no award granted to her, or some award granted for the airline's failure, but greatly decreased from whatever she wanted based on her role in the circumstances.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

how can it be determined well after the fact whether she was passed out drunk, or passed out due to a medical condition?

(understanding that if that's what happened, drunk is the likeliest explanation)

Yeah, don't bother. I have said this many times. All I get is moose and poutine responses. JSA doesn't like to admit when he's wrong. Actually I think he's allergic to it. Much like how you are allergic to saying "I agree".

Here's where you tell me...

I don't disagree.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

When you hear the story your first thought is that she must have been hiding. But there really isn't anywhere to hide on an airplane. Not like you can stand on the toilet so they don't see you in the stall.

But part of the problem is that she is pretty clearly not telling the truth either. She claims she was still strapped into her seat, and no one is buying that.

Unless she crawled into the overhead bin and hid, which seems like somebody would notice the whacky lady doing that, the airline has to be at fault.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'm sorry but "Her passing out caused her to be missed by the flight crew." is a fallacy.

Put simply: the flight crew's *negligence* cased her to be missed by the flight crew. It is the flight crew's responsibility to make sure no humans are on the plane. Regardless of a passenger's intent. Regardless of their physical condition. Regardless of their location on the plane.

End of.

and even though you mentioned damages as an element there is no real, provable damage obvious from the story so far. And I am a bleeding heart liberal plaintiffs' lawyer that thinks everyone injured deserves money! Contrib and failure to mitigate cut into her ability to get damages awarded but she still has to prove she has some injury. In my state negligent infliction of emotional distress is not allowed so there would have to be intentional infliction of emotional distress. That's extremely hard to prove. And a jury is going to severely question any real damage (PTSD) caused by being stuck on an airplane for a short time with no bodily injury allegations. Any lawsuit based on this would be nothing more than a money grab.

Serious Question- how was she "freezing cold" when she "awoke" on the plane in Toronto, Canada when the hi/lo for June 9, 2019 was 69/58f?

What IS rocket surgery?

It's the unbelievably complicated combination of rocket science and brain surgery.

No, it's not a fallacy, it's the law.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Rocket surgery.

I spent a short stint as an intern rocket surgeon on the Trident II D5 missile. I worked with actual rocket surgeons. Much, much harder than practicing law. Also, not as fun.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

This; JSA can fuck right off. I agree w/ him her story reeks of BS, and further agree she deserves zero compensation for her self-initiated non-injury... And yet all that doesn't allow the airline a pass for failing to execute their duties properly. The higher standard or expectation of conduct rests on the professionals here, not the passenger. Like OCT says, just because her scheme only amounted to some low-grade extortion doesn't mean their negligence couldn't have led to a far more egregious outcome; they should still be held accountable for that in any case. The same number of people need to get off the plane at the end as the number who boarded, or it's their fuckup, Period.

If I were the supreme adjudicator in this kerfuffle, I'd see fit to fine or otherwise penalize the airline and/or its employees (depending on how much the culpability can be narrowed down to a particular crew member or 2 whose responsibility it was to sweep the aircraft), and then donate any punitive proceeds to some local airline safety outreach program or the proverbial airline mechanics' widows fund or whatever, and not award squat to the plaintiff since she's clearly not deserving of any sympathy either. But I certainly wouldn't just say she brought it on herself and then just dismiss the whole thing entirely without meting fault to the airline.

And yet all that doesn't allow the airline a pass for failing to execute their duties properly.
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I'm on the other end of the spectrum. You pay the airlines to fly you from point A to point B safely. Perhaps to provide you with some in-flight refreshments and electronic entertainment. You don't pay them to be your personal babysitter. They get you to your destination and offer you a tiny bag of peanuts along the way, they've done their job. You can't/ won't get your ass off the plane, assuming no major medical malfunctions, that's on you. Getting stuck on a plane is a lesson you shouldn't have to learn the hard way and, if you do, only have to learn it once.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I'm going to call you both out because LavRoom:

It's "comparative fault," not "contributory negligence." Contributory negligence is the old and now abandoned theory that prevented any recovery whatsoever if the claimant was even the slightest bit at fault. Comparative fault is the current theory that merely reduces damages in proportion to the claimant's fault.

Carry on, counselors. ;-)

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War is god

Contributory negligence is alive and well in the people's republic of Illinois, it just reduces damages, not eliminate them